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[Rockwood View Member Profile]

That won't happen in Ca. He best not be over 65', and at 65mph he's a accident waiting to happen weaving back and forth. "No brain, no headache"!!! I wouldn't be surprised to read that he was traveling in the number 1 or 2 lane? The DMV needs to educate people who buy trailers all the laws that are involved in towing such equipment.

Bob "Doc" Savage

Since you need a CDL to tow doubles, I would assume that he was at one time familiar with the laws. At least long enough to take the test...

That doesn't mean he's smart though.

[SANDPSYCHO View Member Profile]

Yep. 35401 is the only place in the CVC where much of anything about doubles (except in agricultural use) is mentioned, and nothing is in there about the first needing to be a 5th wheel.

It does not, but it does specify a truck tractor. I think that is the root of the confusion as when people think of a truck tractor they think 5th wheel/king pin. As long as the first vehicle is a truck tractor which is defined in the C.V.C. (what we call a pick up does fall within that definition, that’s why you get commercial plates and pay weight fee’s) you can pull 2 of any kind of trailer, I just wouldn’t want to drive it or near it.

Two tag trailers, properly loaded will tow just fine, as smooth as anything else. Its not the load or the connections that are unsafe,its the people who do the loading...and thats he case with any load, any set of doubles.

I couldn't agree more with you. Knowing how a lot of people hook up thier one bumper pull trailer, I sure as heck don’t want to be near two of them hooked on the back of some lifted half or ¾ ton pickup that the rear bumper is 2 feet lower than the front bumper as it wiggles down the road in 2-3 lanes.

[free ride View Member Profile]

illegal for sure. that's not even close to the legal limit.

that would be a 55mph night cruise for me.

[gnomeally View Member Profile]

I couldn't agree more with you. Knowing how a lot of people hook up thier one bumper pull trailer, I sure as heck don’t want to be near two of them hooked on the back of some lifted half or ¾ ton pickup that the rear bumper is 2 feet lower than the front bumper as it wiggles down the road in 2-3 lanes.

the scary part, I can see some of these idiots doing exactly that...

[Rockwood View Member Profile]

I couldn't agree more with you. Knowing how a lot of people hook up thier one bumper pull trailer, I sure as heck don’t want to be near two of them hooked on the back of some lifted half or ¾ ton pickup that the rear bumper is 2 feet lower than the front bumper as it wiggles down the road in 2-3 lanes.

the scary part, I can see some of these idiots doing exactly that...

Can, or have?

[Mike E View Member Profile]

655. (a) "A 'truck tractor' is a motor vehicle designed and used primarily for drawing other vehicles and not so constructed as to carry a load, other than a part of the weight of the vehicle and the load so drawn. As used in this section, "load" does not include items carried on the truck tractor in conjunction with the operation of the vehicle if the load carrying space for these items does not exceed 34 square feet."

I would say by definition of a Truck Tractor that a pick up truck is not a truck tractor. It is designed to "carry a load" There are plenty of commercial vehicles with commercial plates designed to carry loads and not "draw" loads, however by the C.V.C. definition they are not "Truck Tractors"

This post has been edited by Mike E: Dec 4 2009, 11:08 PM

[Rockwood View Member Profile]

655. (a) "A 'truck tractor' is a motor vehicle designed and used primarily for drawing other vehicles and not so constructed as to carry a load, other than a part of the weight of the vehicle and the load so drawn. As used in this section, "load" does not include items carried on the truck tractor in conjunction with the operation of the vehicle if the load carrying space for these items does not exceed 34 square feet."

I would say by definition of a Truck Tractor that a pick up truck is not a truck tractor. It is designed to "carry a load" There are plenty of commercial vehicles with commercial plates designed to carry loads and not "draw" loads, however by the C.V.C. definition they are not "Truck Tractors"

34 square feet helps the truck though. Even a long bed truck only has 32 square feet of load carrying space.

I think that's to keep people from towing doubles with a dump truck.

This post has been edited by Rockwood: Dec 5 2009, 07:38 AM

[rbjcampi View Member Profile]

I think that's to keep people from towing doubles with a dump truck.

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[Mike E View Member Profile]

655. (a) "A 'truck tractor' is a motor vehicle designed and used primarily for drawing other vehicles and not so constructed as to carry a load, other than a part of the weight of the vehicle and the load so drawn. As used in this section, "load" does not include items carried on the truck tractor in conjunction with the operation of the vehicle if the load carrying space for these items does not exceed 34 square feet."

I would say by definition of a Truck Tractor that a pick up truck is not a truck tractor. It is designed to "carry a load" There are plenty of commercial vehicles with commercial plates designed to carry loads and not "draw" loads, however by the C.V.C. definition they are not "Truck Tractors"

34 square feet helps the truck though. Even a long bed truck only has 32 square feet of load carrying space.

I think that's to keep people from towing doubles with a dump truck.

My shortbed pickup has 34.17 sqft of bed space "load carrying space"
A lonbed pickup has 42.11 sqft of bed space "load carrying space"
Neither of them Were "designed and used primarily for drawing other vehicles " they were designed to carry a load and can be fitted with equipment to allow them to tow. this does not make them "Truck Tractors" by CVC definition. A pickup can be used to tow an RV semi-trailer but it still does not make the pickup a "Truck Tractor"

This post has been edited by Mike E: Dec 5 2009, 11:31 AM

[SANDPSYCHO View Member Profile]

655. (a) "A 'truck tractor' is a motor vehicle designed and used primarily for drawing other vehicles and not so constructed as to carry a load, other than a part of the weight of the vehicle and the load so drawn. As used in this section, "load" does not include items carried on the truck tractor in conjunction with the operation of the vehicle if the load carrying space for these items does not exceed 34 square feet."

I would say by definition of a Truck Tractor that a pick up truck is not a truck tractor. It is designed to "carry a load" There are plenty of commercial vehicles with commercial plates designed to carry loads and not "draw" loads, however by the C.V.C. definition they are not "Truck Tractors"

34 square feet helps the truck though. Even a long bed truck only has 32 square feet of load carrying space.

I think that's to keep people from towing doubles with a dump truck.

My shortbed pickup has 34.17 sqft of bed space "load carrying space"
A lonbed pickup has 42.11 sqft of bed space "load carrying space"
Neither of them Were "designed and used primarily for drawing other vehicles " they were designed to carry a load and can be fitted with equipment to allow them to tow. this does not make them "Truck Tractors" by CVC definition. A pickup can be used to tow an RV semi-trailer but it still does not make the pickup a "Truck Tractor"

A pick up is designed to tow that is why the manufacturer list a towing capacity and a lot of them are sold with a tow hitch and are prewired or come with a brake controller. The manufacture also lists in the manual where to mount a 5th wheel hitch. As for mine it is used primarily for towing how you use yours is up to you. I have a long bed but it doesn’t have 42.11 sqft of load space. It has wheel wells that eat up several square feet of bed space. I only have 4’ between wheel wells so with the little useable flat bed space behind them I might be close to 34 but nowhere near 42’+. You might want to have a woman re-measure, I’m sure she will come up with a smaller number.

Also according to the 3 CHP Commercial Enforcement Officers I know, they all are of the opinion that a pickup falls under the definition of a truck tractor.

[gnomeally View Member Profile]

A pick up is designed to tow that is why the manufacturer list a towing capacity and a lot of them are sold with a tow hitch and are prewired or come with a brake controller. The manufacture also lists in the manual where to mount a 5th wheel hitch. As for mine it is used primarily for towing how you use yours is up to you. I have a long bed but it doesn’t have 42.11 sqft of load space. It has wheel wells that eat up several square feet of bed space. I only have 4’ between wheel wells so with the little useable flat bed space behind them I might be close to 34 but nowhere near 42’+. You might want to have a woman re-measure, I’m sure she will come up with a smaller number.

Also according to the 3 CHP Commercial Enforcement Officers I know, they all are of the opinion that a pickup falls under the definition of a truck tractor.

Perhaps they should read the vehicle code book...

471. A "pickup truck" is a motor truck with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and which is equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length. "Pickup truck" does not include a motor vehicle otherwise meeting the above definition, that is equipped with a bed-mounted storage compartment unit commonly called a "utility body."

Added Ch. 13, Stats. 1991. Effective February 13, 1991.
Amended Ch. 928, Stats. 1991. Effective October 14, 1991.
Amended Sec. 8, Ch. 652, Stats. 1997. Effective January 1, 1998.


This book is surprisingly easy to read and understand if you just spend the time and understand that words have meanings...
A pick-up is no where near the definition of a tractor truck.

This post has been edited by gnomeally: Dec 6 2009, 05:14 PM

[gnomeally View Member Profile]

Sp what have we learned in this topic...

Doubles are legal up to 75 ft IF they are behind a tractor truck and no trailer is longer than 28ft...

other wise, only legal up to 65 ft

Doubles are legal behind a pick up truck up to 75 ft IF they are used for agriculture and you dont go over 50mph and no trailer is longer than 28ft..

Other wise behind a pick up truck the max length is 65 ft...


you don't need a 5th wheel to tow doubles behind a pick up truck.

I think this has been beat to death...

It will be back as a major topic in about 3 months..stay tuned.

[OC2Vegas View Member Profile]

In Las Vegas seeing a 3/4 Ton towing a 5th Wheel towing a trailer is a common site. But Nevada also allows Semi's to tow triple trailer, has no lane control on semi's (Allowed to drive in any lane for any length of time/distance), and has no trailering speed for any vehicle (You can tow at the posted speed limit).

Dont know what the law says here but I have a friend that has a CDL, drives an F350, tows a 5th wheel with a hitch and tows a 24' Box Trailer behind it to Dumont and Armagossa all the time. Know he's been to Glamis but dont know if he's ever taken that set up down there.

[justdirt View Member Profile]

This is very funny it happens all the time in nv and or,az seems to be ca is the od ones here as for the towing speed limit that is a joke

[SANDPSYCHO View Member Profile]

A pick up is designed to tow that is why the manufacturer list a towing capacity and a lot of them are sold with a tow hitch and are prewired or come with a brake controller. The manufacture also lists in the manual where to mount a 5th wheel hitch. As for mine it is used primarily for towing how you use yours is up to you. I have a long bed but it doesn’t have 42.11 sqft of load space. It has wheel wells that eat up several square feet of bed space. I only have 4’ between wheel wells so with the little useable flat bed space behind them I might be close to 34 but nowhere near 42’+. You might want to have a woman re-measure, I’m sure she will come up with a smaller number.

Also according to the 3 CHP Commercial Enforcement Officers I know, they all are of the opinion that a pickup falls under the definition of a truck tractor.

Perhaps they should read the vehicle code book...

471. A "pickup truck" is a motor truck with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and which is equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length. "Pickup truck" does not include a motor vehicle otherwise meeting the above definition, that is equipped with a bed-mounted storage compartment unit commonly called a "utility body."

Added Ch. 13, Stats. 1991. Effective February 13, 1991.
Amended Ch. 928, Stats. 1991. Effective October 14, 1991.
Amended Sec. 8, Ch. 652, Stats. 1997. Effective January 1, 1998.


This book is surprisingly easy to read and understand if you just spend the time and understand that words have meanings...
A pick-up is no where near the definition of a tractor truck.

All I’m saying is a pickup fall under the definition of truck tractor. My truck is designed to tow at least Ford says it is, It is used almost exclusively for towing and I am easily under 34 sqft in the bed with the 5th wheel hitch as that is for the load so drawn. Yes it is also defined as a pickup but it meets the requirements under truck tractor.

Yes it is an easy book to read and understand. So where in the definition of truck tractor does it say excluding pickups?

This post has been edited by SANDPSYCHO: Dec 6 2009, 06:41 PM

[gnomeally View Member Profile]

All I’m saying is a pickup fall under the definition of truck tractor. My truck is designed to tow at least Ford says it is, It is used almost exclusively for towing and I am easily under 34 sqft in the bed with the 5th wheel hitch as that is for the load so drawn. Yes it is also defined as a pickup but it meets the requirements under truck tractor.

Well I think we are arguing semantics here.
I doubt your under 34 sqft in your bed, but it doesn't matter.
Pickups are designed to haul with the ability to tow.
I guess by your definition, a motorcycle with a hitch is a tractor truck? The factory says you can tow with it..

Really, it doesn't matter what its called...fact is, you can still tow doubles with it and you don't need a 5th wheel...which is what this topic is about.