As far as the class A, non-commercial, they don't need to weigh you. They simply go by the your trailers GVWR. Over 15k, you need it. The gross combined is not really enforceable, the weight per wheel etc. It gets complicated. Usually towing at the speed limit, you won't get stopped, once stopped, you're on your own.

Let's go duning

What Roaddog is saying is "Don't give Em a reason"
In the Bigger Trucks they never check the door tags..they look at the tires.

Sandbound is correct...here is the information from the DMV handbook:

RECREATIONAL TRAILER ENDORSEMENT
A driver must have a fifth-wheel recreational trailer endorsement
added to his/her Class C driver license to pull a fifth-wheel recreational
trailer over 10,000 lbs., but not over 15,000 lbs. GVWR, which is
not used for hire. This endorsement is not required if the driver has a
Class A or Noncommercial Class A driver license.
• There is no fee unless your license expires within six months.
• You will take a law test for a noncommercial Class A license based
on the information contained in this booklet. You must also pass the
Class C law test unless you qualified for a Class C license within the
past twelve months.
• You are not required to submit a Health Questionnaire.
• You are not required to take a driving test to add a Recreational
Trailer endorsement to your current license.
• No other tests are required.
11

The sticker I have on the back of my CDL says.

Able to tow fifth wheel recreational vehicle trailer.
Restriction 41

20 question test at the DMV.

45 minutes trying to explain to the DMV staff what I needed.

Yep. You would be suprised at how many DMV employee's, including supervisors, dont know what the law is on this. And yes, even quite a few commercial CHP officers.

Two visits and the supervisior had to do all the paper work in Fullerton.
First vist lots of blank stares.
Lots of good information about CDL and RV's here.
http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index....showtopic=76717

No, I don't work for CHP, I work on an ambulance and spent a lot of time picking the commercial officers' brains at the coffee shop in the morning before our days get busy. I upgraded from a Dodge SRW to a dually after taking my rig over a scale and finding the rear axle of my SRW was almost 1000 lbs overloaded. I wanted to make sure the truck I replaced the SRW with was going to be legal. I was told that the only weight limits that are enforceable are ones that are printed on your door tag and the tires. GCVWR is not on the door tag and changes based on the options you get on your truck. For example the Dodge 3500 series trucks have about 12 different GCVWR depending on the gear ratio, transmission, engine and 2 vs. 4 wheel drive. Unless it is printed in the door CHP would have to have a truck full of binders of every model year truck to actually enforce the GCVWR.

The officer that pulled over your cousin may have meant that he can not exceed the combined GVWR of the truck and trailer combined. In addition to the laws listed concerning 5th wheels if his truck has a GVWR high enough (which a 4500 most likely does) that when combined with the trailer GVWR it equals 26001 + lbs then that also needs a class A. As an example, a 5th wheel with a GVWR of 14,999 lbs does not require a class A, just an endorsement. As soon as that trailer is attached to a truck with a GVWR of 11,002 lbs it puts the total at 26,001 lbs which needs a class A.

Well I don't think that's not entirely true. It is very confusing that commercial stuff. Here's an example, U-hual rental truck loaded 25000lbs, you ad a trailer with 9000lbs(your buggy, tools, your wife threw you out) you are now over the 26001lbs, but you can drive this with a class C.

This is why they have commercial only guys. It is a totally different relm and rules. Again, this is why they go by the GVW of the vehicles, not your actual weight, until you are a regulated load, trailer size, # of axles, and on and on.

Isn't funny how all the U-hauls are under 26k, with funny looking rating stickers, not factory. Ever wonder why?????? Who can rent one if they are over 26K, class B only. Clear as mud.

Let's go duning.

Hey!! Easy there buddy ......I havent hit 250 yet!!! currently at 220lbs but rising daily it seems!!

i called dmv in california ( commercial division) . what they told me was this same info . you go by your home stae and you cannot hold two licences . budwench is exactly correct . obviously this only applies to license, the weight issue i am sure would apply across the board . tim

Took the written and passed with no problem. I went Wed to Torrance DMV to take what I thought was the pre trip inspection and driving test....boy was in for a treat. I show up at 1:30 for a 1:50 test with my Brother in-law (who is taking a test at 2:00) both rigs. We go to check in and they put us with the regular test people not the commercial duds. Then they tell us we have to come back and that set my brother off he paid a guy 200.00 who had a class A to come with us so we would be legal and they want us to come back..Bull dodo..The lady who graded our tests is the same person who made the driving test how could they make that mistake. Well it’s because the CHP wants to enforce the law but the DMV does not know what the law is and how to test people. They make it up as they go along. I want to yell at someone but it will not get me any place. So we both will be back tomorrow at 8am to (for me) take the driving part and my brother to take skills and pre inspection and driving. I hope this is all worth it cuz it’s costing me big time. I wonder if small claims could be in order for the money I lost to take off from work. The place I bought it at should have checked my CDL for the class A before letting me drives off the lot.

Thursday, Showed up to Torrance DMV and took driving test. The driving test was the easy just drove like I do normally. Passed with no errors. The lady who gave me the test is the same supervisor that my brother got into it with Thurs about screwing up the times......He took it and she passed him too. Now its time for all of you to make sure you are legal and safe. We owe it to our kids and the other duners/drivers to drive safe and correct so we don’t hurt or kill our selves or anyone else. I will post the pre inspection form and the driving and skills test later today for everyone to see. Hope it will help.

I'm interested in seeing those papers, as I'm going to be getting into this soon. Our current trailer isn't over the 15k limit, but the next one sure will be.

Yep, me too.

If you're ever on Hwy 79S/15 drop me a line for a cold one. I know of a little known BLM area we can ride that's near.

YO CARTWRENCHER IM ACROSS THE STREET FROM YA WHAT PLACE YA TALKING ABOUT?

Ortega?

Does anyone know if by getting this endoresement you will be then governed under the laws as a class a license???? i.e. .... B.A.C., traffic school ????

This is a great question. I think it only works on the full Class A commercial. But I will make a phone call to the DMV and see what they say or dont say on Monday. I will post the papers as soon as I get home from work.

Nope, its a little unknown area

H/M, maybe tomorrow afternoon.

Sorry these are so late hope they help some of you who do go and get the non commercial class A

These are the test papers I got to keep.


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Just because you have an endorsement, does not make you a safe driver. It just says you can legally tow a vehicle within the law. Commom sense makes you a safe driver. Just my 2 pennies.

NO,,, you fall under regular Class C rules..."non-comercial" and not for hire...

You are so right. I was just speaking in broad terms. I learn everytime I drive the rig.

Okay;
Matt did not post this but I will.
Yes, we should all abide by the law and get the required endorsement.
However a LEO is not supposed to pull you over just to check for your license endorsement. There is case law behind this.
The LEO should have another reason to pull you over such as a mechanical or driving violation.

Just keep this in mind when you are driving. Don't give them a reason.

Did I say that?!?!?!!?!!

Exactly what happened to me...Had to explain to 4 different DMV employees that I needed an endorsement. Some told me I didn't need one, some told me I needed a non commercial class A. But at the end I have my endorsement. My WW shows a wieght of 15,000lbs. My endorsement is for 10001 and 15000lb 5th wheel rec vehicle. It's piece of mind for me. Easy test for sure.

I WENT TO 3 DIFFERENT DMV FACILITIES AND NO ONE AT EITHER HAD A CLUE. I WAS TOLD I NEEDED A REG CLASS "C" TO A COMMERCIAL CLASS "A" I FINALLY CALLED THE DMV AND GOT A HOLD OF SOME ONE WHO KNEW WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT THEY USED THEIR DMV MANUAL ( SMART ) I HAD THEM MAIL ME THE HAND BOOK, LOOKS PRETTY EASY I HAVE NOT TAKE NTHE TEST YET NEXT MONTH

It is really cool to see the number of people who step right up when we get new information. It looks like a lot of you are getting this endorsement and going to make the roads safer. A little reminder that your wives/girlfriends need to do this too. If they have to tow your rig, they need to be legal as well.

I also wanted to share with you a conversation that I had with a SD Sheriff's Deputy recently. One of his friends was pulled over and received this $1200.00 ticket for not being properly licensed, and in going through the motions of rectifying this and taking care of his ticket, was told by his insurance company that while pulling his rig, he was not insured, as he was driving illegally. Not properly licensed. Had he been in an accident, his insurance company would not have had to pay a claim. So, there's another reason to get that endorsement if your rig falls into this category.

Hope the info is useful!!

Damn it Coob...quit telling our secrets!

N E one done the DMV thing and how was it I would like to see if it was even close to the same at different DMV locations

I am in a sticky situation. I am 71 feet long over all, and you can NOT pull an over length permit for a recreational vehicle. Secondly I pull a tag trailer with a GVWR of 15000 which means that I need a class A non-commercial and I have already taken the written test and just need to take the driving portion. I am nervous about driving down for the test being over length. Thirdly I just bought a diesel pusher with a GVWR of 26750 which necessitates a class A commercial. I know that a class B covers me for the Moho but doesn't get me what I need for the trailer. I am stuck with getting a class A commercial, and it looks like on certain roads I will be ok on length but need to more investigation.

I know it's been awhile since the last post on this subject, but here goes. I have a fifthweel ordered that has a gvwr of around 17K. Does anyone know if the same weights and rules apply for a gooseneck? I'm thinking about getting a gooseneck adapter to convert my fifthwheel into a gooseneck. I have called the dealer and they said this would not void my warranty. Has anyone else here converted? Any info is greatly appreciated.

Panther,,
I took the written test at Fullerton DMV and passed 100% just by scanning the booklet while waiting for my number to be called. I am taking the pretrip and drivnig test next Wednesday. I am not too worried about the driving test, but not sure about the prettrip test. Any advice, in particular?
Thanks!!!

5th or goose, the same.

RhinoMan, It has been awhile for me checking this board sorry for the delay. When you go through the pre inspection go over everything and I mean everything I posted the test and check sheets earlier in this post I scanned them in for everyone to review. Talk about the gages on your dash how you check them, Shocks,springs bolts lights seat belts everything even your window defroster. The person giving the test will tell you when to move on. Know where your fire extinguisher is and the road try angles. You will do fine you can miss 9 total.

As for the update I hoped people would step up and get Lic for there tow rigs and I am glad to say most are and will do this but in this whole process I went and weighed my truck and trailer and guess what...I am 3k over the gross veh rating for my truck. So I am now working on correcting this. I would have felt so bad if god forbid something would have happened to me or anyone else. It will cost me but its only money and a life is worth more then 58k for a new truck. So this Glamis season I will be fully legal and lic and having a good time at mother G. Will everyone else? Lets get weighed people and show the rest of the bone heads that we at Glamis Dunes.com do whats right.

I know it's been awhile since the last post on this subject, but here goes. I have a fifthweel ordered that has a gvwr of around 17K. Does anyone know if the same weights and rules apply for a gooseneck? I'm thinking about getting a gooseneck adapter to convert my fifthwheel into a gooseneck. I have called the dealer and they said this would not void my warranty. Has anyone else here converted? Any info is greatly appreciated.


Anybody? Bueller?

Is your response a question or an answer? If your saying they are both the same, then do you know where I can find this in writing? If its not in some rule book where it actually states fifthweel/gooseneck trailers then I think this may be a loophole. I can see being pulled over and an officer saying do you have a class A DL to be pulling this fifthwheel that has a gvwr of over 15K and me saying "what fifthwheel, this is a gooseneck". If anyone can please post on here the law that shows where a gooseneck is required to follow the same laws as a fifthwheel it would be greatly appreciated.

See above, 5th or Goose, it's the same. It has nothing to do with the hitch mechanism, it's weight. And again, it's not illegal to be over your GVWR. That has been talked about many times on this site.

Not sure on the laws regaurding gooseneck vs. fifth wheel, But I converted my trailer to a gooseneck and it is much better than the fifth wheel set up. The truck and trailer are much easier to hook up on unlevel ground, no more twisting the frame of your truck when you are off the pavement, and i think the ride isa little better also. I now have easier height adjustment with the hitch set up. hope this helps.

well went to fullerton dmv today and took the test piece of cake 20 questions the wife took it too and she passed by missing only 3 with zero studying and she doesnt like to drive but i figured if she gets the permit then she can drive as long as i am in the passenger seat anyways so thats all i want her to get road test is scheduled for next friday so we will see how it goes but fullerton dmv supervisor said they have had an unusually high volume of people wanting this test lately

Wow, great info. I have been researching the gooseneck adapter all week and really like the benefits it has to offer. It's cool to finally here from someone who actually has one installed and has been towing with it with out problems. I've heard a few negative comments about the adapter but it all has been from people who don't even own or use one. I have called a few service departments at RV dealers that sell forrest river and asked if this would in anyway void my warranty. Both service departments, the one I ordered it through in Ohio, and the one I will have it serviced at in Fresno said it would not void the warranty. They both said they sell and install these all the time. Regardless of the 15K GWVR< I'll probably still go with the Gooseneck adapter. Looks like I better start studying for a class A non-com. Does anyone know if your required to get a physical for the class A non-com? Do I definetly need one with a fifthwheel that has a UVW of 13.5K? Thanks

I took my pretrip, skills and driving test today. I almost failed the pretrip test as I forgot to mention anything about the 5th wheel hitch. That made me miss 6 points right there. I also forgot to mention checking the brake lines and brake pads, that made me miss 3 more for a total of 9. You can miss 10 and still pass.
The only part of the skills test that is hard it the parralel parking. You have to back into a spot on your blind (right) side as if you are backing into a spot on a street. I passed this the first time by pure luck.
You also have to back for about 50 feet in a straight line and make a turn right around a cone and get your trailer wheels within 1 foot of the cone but not hit it.
The driving test is very easy. Just drive safely and keep your trailer wheels in your own lane.
I passed all the tests and I now have my class A.
The guy who tested me said he just tested a guy with a 44 ft motorhome (you need a class B for a motorhome over 40'). He said the guy was pulled over by a vehicle inspection stop (like a DUI check) and when they found he didn't have the correct licence they impounded his new $400k motorhome. He was pissed. He said the same could happen driving a 15k 5th wheel without the NCDL.
Al least get a permit. You only have to take the written test, which is easy, and it's good for a year.
Cheers,if your at Gordons Well this weekend,,,see ya there!!

I know this is old but there is a lot of BS here. You cannot be ticketed for exceeding the GAWR/GVWR/GCVWR of your truck or trailer. Those specs are from the manufaturer and do not reflect how the truck is actually equipped. Check the vehicle code yourself if you don't believe me. But trust me it's been all over the place here and rv.net. It is against the law to exceed the ratings of your tires as printed on the sidewall. That's it. You do need a class a non-commercial to tow a 5th wheel over 15k GVWR. It has nothing to do with what your rig actually weighs, just the sticker. Your insurance will cover you in an accident without a class a non-commercial. Just call them and ask. Did they ask if you had the license when you got your insurance?

Well I don't know about your Ins comp but mine did say I could and I repeat could be denied a claim because of driving our of class. Do you want to take that chance? I didn't so I got my class A. The CHP did not weigh my friend they looked as you stated at the sticker and then check his lic for class and made him park the Veh and gave him a big fat ticket. I cant afford the ticket or the chance.

Do us AZ guys need this class A deal too?

I can appreciate folks going out and getting the proper Licensing to tow their trailers, but to think that these same folks are going to be safer divers because they have a Class A or Non-com. Class A is ridiculus.

I agree to some point but the skills test and pre inspection will cut down I hope on some things that could be avoided. So the first time buyer could not make the skills test. I worked at it for 3 weeks and it made me better at knowing what I can and cant do with my 5th wheel. Some of you have mad skills when towing but generally people new to towing with 40ft behind them will benefit from the test.

I agree... It may not necessarily be the driver having the license that makes them safer, but preparing to ge that license is what makes them safer.

Just thought I would let you guys know that CHP is indeed ticketing people for being out of class (12500(d) VC) for driving over 10K GVWR without an endorsement or over 15K GVWR without a Class A Non Commercial. My best friend is CHP and he ticketed a guy last night for it up here in Northern Calif and he says that more and more there will be tickets for this as this law becomes better known and understood by LEO's. He did say it was a fix it ticket though. Glad I don't have to worry about this anymore now that I have a motor home. So if they are doing it here in Nor Cal, you can better believe in So Cal, where there are more of these behemouth trailers, there will be some unhappy campers this season if they don't go get licensed.