Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Pismo Issue
GlamisDunes.com > Sand Community Issues > CORVA
APHANTOMDUCK
From the LA Times today...

__________

Oceano Dunes' unhappy campers
A decision this week could mean new restrictions on off-roaders for whom life is a beach.
By Steve Chawkins, Times Staff Writer
April 15, 2007


Oceano DunesOCEANO, CALIF. — For Byron Clayworth, it didn't get much better than this: sipping a beer, camping on the beach with his buddies and their families, frying up dinner for 15 on a homemade wok, and, most of all, zooming around the dunes on an amazing variety of off-road vehicles.

That about 25,000 other people were enjoying the Oceano Dunes State Vehicular Recreation Area in much the same way this weekend was no big deal. Getting used to the constant background whine of engines is easy, Clayworth said, but getting used to the constant buzz of environmental activists — that's a different story.

"We've been squeezed too much already," said Clayworth, 51, a mechanic at a Modesto dairy. "How much do they want?"

It's a question on the minds of thousands of off-road enthusiasts as a crucial decision looms for the Oceano dunes — one of the state parks' busiest campsites and the last major place in California where driving on the beach is still legal.

Over the years, the off-roaders point out, the sand they have been allowed to whip across on everything from Model T Fords to hopped-up Hummers has, mostly for environmental reasons, been whittled from 15,000 acres to about 1,500. They fear that a decision Tuesday by the San Luis Obispo County Board of Supervisors could impose further restrictions on the site's 2 million annual visitors.

Since 1983, the county has leased 584 acres to the park free of charge, most of it in prime riding terrain. With the 25-year operating agreement set to expire next year, the board is to decide whether to approve the state's purchase offer of $4.8 million — a choice as highly favored by the off-roaders as it is opposed by San Luis Obispo's vocal environmental community.

"A sale to the state would be a huge mistake," said Nell Langford, a retired psychology professor who owns a vacation rental home that looks out on the parade of cars, trucks and trailers hauling all-terrain vehicles down the beach. "Here's a county that's environmentally evolved, that's into protecting its citizens from air pollution and all the things that ATV use generates. What are they thinking?"

Off-roaders want the sale approved, figuring a permanent transfer to the state would preserve the remaining riding territory. In their view, a return to county control would allow environmental activists to sway local political leaders and ultimately destroy a pastime that has been cherished for generations.

"There's been motorized recreation on this beach for over 100 years," said Jim Suty, head of the off-road advocacy group Friends of Oceano Dunes. "My parents used to race Jeeps here in the '60s, I'm enjoying it with my kids, and I want their kids to be able to enjoy it too."

After years of conflict, both sides are highly organized. Suty's group just held its annual crab feed, a fundraiser for its legal fees, in the Central Valley town of Hanford.

And Langford was organizing a pointed "Children's Day" celebration, with playing tots encircled by a "human shield" protecting them from traffic on the beach.

Even with all the passion of the debate, neither side expects a sudden end to off-roading in the dunes — permitted by the California Coastal Commission after the establishment of off-highway vehicle areas in 1982. But both sides are bracing for a fight over more restrictions.

For state parks ranger Will Pierce, the politics of it all took a back seat as he watched a gray sedan carving a serpentine track through the traffic on the hard-packed mud beside the sea.

"I've seen it a million times," said Pierce, a beach ranger for eight years. "Ordinarily sensitive, nice, conservative people get behind the wheel here and suddenly it's the Baja 500."

Pierce had his hands full. One of 140 employees who work in the park at peak hours, he had spent his shift dealing with groups of rowdy college students, an alleged sexual assault, park restrooms stripped of toilet paper, and an empty 28-foot cabin cruiser that had broken loose of its moorings and smashed onto the beach.

He waved down speeders exceeding the 15 mph limit on the flats — there is no limit on the dunes — and warned parents who were illegally letting young children drive.

Cruising through the dunes in his truck as dirt bikes and quad-runners leaped skyward, he paused at a crest and looked down at the sprawling encampment several hundred feet below. In row after jagged row sat a thousand RVs and pickups and trailers, many with banners blowing in the wind — Old Glory, the flag of Mexico, the Confederate flag, here a frosty beer mug, there a skull-and-crossbones.

In the 1930s, the dunes were home to a community of mystics who called themselves Dunites. Earlier, it was home to a failed subdivision that advertised itself as "the Atlantic City of the Pacific." Now it's home to big families of weekend warriors, many making the hours-long trek from the Central Valley with generators, gas grills and the latest in motorized fun.

"They just love it," Pierce said. "It's their Disneyland."

For environmentalists, though, it's not quite the happiest place on Earth. Each weekend, legions of trucks and trailers splash across the Arroyo Grande Creek — a habitat for several rare species — at both of the park's entry points onto the beach. Dust whipped up by off-roaders pollutes the air in nearby communities, activists say, and protections afforded the Western snowy plover after a Sierra Club lawsuit over the threatened bird are inadequate, they add.

"It's the local version of the spotted owl," said Andrew Christie, a spokesman for the local Sierra Club chapter. "You can still find lots of 'Run Over a Plover' bumper stickers in Oceano."

When the birds are nesting, park employees monitor their fenced-off, 300-acre patch of sand with binoculars, laying down driftwood and kelp to "artificially enhance the habitat," said park Supt. Andrew Zilke.

The effort takes three full-time environmental scientists and 10 or 11 seasonal employees. Zilke, an advocate of the land sale, said he doubted that the county could go it alone.

But the sale's opponents insist that the county, even if it negotiates a new lease with the state, exert more control over a precious natural resource.

In a letter to county supervisors, the Sierra Club likens selling the land to "selling Half Dome in Yosemite." The more responsible course, the letter says, is to offer the state a lease with some tough conditions, such as building a less damaging park entry and permanently closing the 300 acres now fenced off for the plover and the least tern from March through September.

"Your whole focus should be on how your decision will help or harm this land in years to come," the letter says.

That's not quite on target for many local businesses, who say the focus should be on the money — about $200 million annually, by state estimates — that off-roaders leave behind.

"If the environmentalists have anything to do with it, there'll be complete devastation," said John Aitkens, who has run B.J.'s ATV Rentals since 1982. Off-roaders "spend on fuel, on groceries, on hopping down to the outlet mall in Pismo Beach. They close the beach and you'll see people all around there going broke."

The arguments over the dunes will continue after Tuesday's hearing, almost certainly up to the Coastal Commission and perhaps to the courts. Among the issues to be settled is a basic one: Did the commission OK off-roading on the beach decades ago despite a county plan forbidding it?

But to Clayworth, the Modesto dairy mechanic, the reality of the dunes was far different. Later on, he and his friends would build a big bonfire. As happily exhausted as skiers after a day of schussing, the children would roast marshmallows and have a great time. They wouldn't have the pay-per-view setup they had a few months ago that drew other campers for a televised kickboxing tournament, but it would be great anyway.

"Where else can you go and ride quads on the beach with the whole family for $10 a night?"
Dunedog
More, plus comments from Friends of Oceano Dunes.

FoOD Blog
ces63ss
fn tree hugers. you get property next to the dunes and whine about the noise. i leave and work near lax airport and pepleo are always crying about the noise. damm it pepleo you should not of moved there in the first place. 25rant.gif
bigalbest
Another obviously unbiased piece from the L.A. Times. 25bangin.gif
journeyman
Everyone has an agenda.

Most everyone has a personal stake in their agenda no matter how altruistic they make it sound.

Their personal stake may be financial (as in the neighboring property owners’ cases) or power/authority (as in the sierra club, et al), but most EVERYONE has a personal stake in the agenda they claim is for ‘the greater good’.

The enemies of the dunes need to be recognized as just that. Enemies OF THE DUNES. The friends of Oceano dunes seem to be trying to promote a responsible, balanced approach with a broad benefit for both families and other users of the dunes and the natural environment (speaking of which, aren’t we humans, even us sand folks part of the natural environment?... but that is another topic).

But a balanced approach will rarely satisfy a personal stake in an agenda.

Make no mistake. There are enemies of the dunes just like there are friends of the dunes. The enemies of the dunes want to present themselves as anything BUT that.
bigalbest
"When the birds are nesting, park employees monitor their fenced-off, 300-acre patch of sand with binoculars, laying down driftwood and kelp to "artificially enhance the habitat," said park Supt. Andrew Zilke.

The effort takes three full-time environmental scientists and 10 or 11 seasonal employees. Zilke, an advocate of the land sale, said he doubted that the county could go it alone. "

First of all, why are they "artificially enhancing" the habitat? And second, 13-14 employees to do what? The real issue in California is gobs of money going down the tubes funding garbage like this. Scum sucking public employees insuring continued jobs for future generations. 3 full time employees to "watch" an owl? I call fowl.
rivermobster
QUOTE(bigalbest @ Apr 15 2007, 10:25 AM) [snapback]2235601[/snapback]
"When the birds are nesting, park employees monitor their fenced-off, 300-acre patch of sand with binoculars, laying down driftwood and kelp to "artificially enhance the habitat," said park Supt. Andrew Zilke.

The effort takes three full-time environmental scientists and 10 or 11 seasonal employees. Zilke, an advocate of the land sale, said he doubted that the county could go it alone. "

First of all, why are they "artificially enhancing" the habitat? And second, 13-14 employees to do what? The real issue in California is gobs of money going down the tubes funding garbage like this. Scum sucking public employees insuring continued jobs for future generations. 3 full time employees to "watch" an owl? I call fowl.




that was good...



laughing.gif

Crusty
Tommorrow will be interesting to hear the outcome.
APHANTOMDUCK
Help me understand this issue a bit more.

It seems as if staff is asking the Board of Supervisors to reject the appeal undertaken by a private party and the State of California. I took this fromt the BOS agenda for today:

_________________

C-3 Hearing to consider an appeal by Tom Roth, the State of California Department of Parks and Recreation-Oceano Dunes, David Sousa, David Pinheiro and the Central Coast Motorcycle Association of the Planning Commission's determination that the proposed sale by the County to the State of approximately 584 acres consisting of 29 parcels located in the Oceano Dunes State Vehicular Recreation Area and Dune Preserve, is not in conformity with the General Plan (pursuant to California Government Code Section 65402); 4th District. (RECOMMEND DENIAL OF THE APPEAL.) [Emphasis Added]

I'm attempting to understand how we can make a difference on this issue when the sale is not "in conformity with the General Plan". If the BOS made a decision on this issue that is not in conformance with the Plan, would they not be open to litigation?




Crusty
dunno.gif
journeyman
Not sure about what the "General Plan" is.

Is the county itching to get rid of it?
Is it a cash generator or a financial sink hole for the county?

Also an interesting (purely theoretical) question:
From a purely environmental (NOT environmentalist, environmental meaning actual natural habitat) would the natural conditions of the Oceano dunes improve, stay the same, degrade, etc. if the county sold the property to a group like Friends of Oceano Dunes, CORVA, ASA, etc.?

Just an interesting question.

We actually DO care about the dunes and yes, that does include ALL of the natural environment that goes with it.
I actually wonder if the natural habitat would IMPROVE if we, the people who really care, were in charge?
Kevlar
Let me take a shot at this. I'm certainly as confused as you guys but this is my take.

The county planning commission "believes" that the sale of the dunes is not consistent with the counties general plan. I guess back in 1982 when the county first decided to lease the dunes to state parks for $1 per year in return for the upkeep and not holding them liable for any injury lawsuits, the understanding was that state parks was eventually going to find a different southerly entrance to the dunes and that vehicle traffic on the beach in front of the homes would be light or non-existant. Roth (FoOD lawyer), state parks, and others made the appeal and the argument that this is incorrect.
APHANTOMDUCK
http://www.santamariatimes.com/articles ... news01.txt

Dunes sale decision postponed

By April Charlton/Senior Staff Writer
The decision whether to sell 584 acres of county-owned land in the Oceano Dunes off-road park open riding area was postponed Tuesday night by the San Luis Obispo County Board of Supervisors.

After a four-hour public hearing marked by emotion-filled public testimony, the supervisors voted 4-0 to continue the hearing to a closed session at a date to be determined.

In a closed session Tuesday night, the supervisors assured the public and the State Department of Parks and Recreation that they plan to move forward in “good faith” on the proposed offer.

State Parks wants to buy what's known as the La Grande Beach Tract, an antiquated subdivision that was recorded in 1905 and never constructed, which is owned by the county.

The agency currently has an operating agreement with the county for use of the property that makes up about 38 percent of the open riding area in the Oceano Dunes SVRA. That agreement expires in June 2008.

State Parks has made an offer to buy 283 acres of the property for $2.35 million, with escrow closing Oct. 1, and an option to purchase the remaining 301 acres for $2.45 million, with escrow closing March 31, 2008.

The supervisors - 4th District Supervisor Katcho Achadjian recused himself - voted to continue the hearing to a closed session as they felt more time was needed to analyze State Parks' offer.

Achadjian recused himself from the hearing because the gas stations he owns in the Five Cities have the potential to generate revenue from users of the Oceano Dunes SVRA.

“We need to know where we are trying to go and how we plan to get there,” said Chairman Jerry Lenthall, who made the motion to continue the hearing shortly before 10 p.m.

During the future closed session, the supervisors also plan to discuss how they would like to negotiate with State Parks if they chose to sell the property and possible conditions that could be placed on a sale.

If the supervisors don't sell the property or enter into another operating agreement or lease with State Parks, the county would be responsible for managing the land, which State Parks has done since 1983.

Fifth District Supervisor Jim Patterson said he wasn't “categorically opposed” to selling the property, but he also wasn't willing to part with the land until issues like an alternative access to the off-road park are addressed.

“I don't think we could manage that (property) ... but I also don't think I'm just willing to throw up my hands and walk away,” he said.

State Parks' officials warned the supervisors that the $2.35 million appropriated by the state for purchase of the first 283 acres will expire in June 30.

“If we miss this opportunity, there is zero guarantee that funds will be available in the future,” said Daphne Green, deputy director of State Parks Off-Highway Division.

April 18, 2007
journeyman
He recused himself? Now there's a fifty cent word for you. Hopefully it is more than a fifty cent crowd.

That last quote from Daphne Green makes it sound like the state is VERY eager to get their hands on this (or it may be that ms. Green is a former used car salesperson)
Sand Tramp
QUOTE(journeyman @ Apr 18 2007, 12:38 PM) [snapback]2240791[/snapback]

He recused himself? Now there's a fifty cent word for you. Hopefully it is more than a fifty cent crowd.

That last quote from Daphne Green makes it sound like the state is VERY eager to get their hands on this (or it may be that ms. Green is a former used car salesperson)


The state wants this done because about half the money has already been allocated. If this isn't done by end of the fiscal year, that money gets unallocated and has to be reapplied for. In Government, if you have money, you spend it. If you don't, you may not see it again. That was the warning that Ms. Green gave the council was that the money may not be there again.
rivermobster
so what happens if june 30th passes by, and no decision is made???
Sand Tramp
According to Ms. Green, the money goes back to where ever it came from and the state MAY lose interest in purchasing the property. Even if they don't lose interest, State Parks would have to go right back thru the long Appropriations process to have the money reappropriated. She said that the the state got the money appropriated because they felt that the county was ready to sell so in good faith they got the money appropriated. The appropriations process is long and cumbersome and could take as long as there is left on the lease, which is June of 08 if I remember correctly. Plus with the financial state of the state, the money will be harder to come by for a future appropriation.

The SLO BOS did note the urgency in which they need to act as they understand the appropriations mess that can come about if they take too long. However it is late in the game so they have a lot of work to do if they are going get this sale done, in a short amount of time.
rivermobster
so would this be good or bad for us as off-roaders? would everything just stay the same? or do we really not know how this will end up no matter which way it goes?







Sand Tramp
From what I gather, and someone chime in if I am stupid on this, if the state is able to purchase the land, they will leave it open for off road use. If the county decides not to sell, the lease will expire in June of 08 and the fear is they will shut it down for off road use.
rivermobster
QUOTE(Dusty Rhodes @ Apr 18 2007, 01:14 PM) [snapback]2240838[/snapback]
From what I gather, and someone chime in if I am stupid on this, if the state is able to purchase the land, they will leave it open for off road use. If the county decides not to sell, the lease will expire in June of 08 and the fear is they will shut it down for off road use.




thank you.

richard cheese
HEY GUYS

the BOS wants to sell the dunes, because they cannot manage it themselves. however , they want some "perks", like a new southerly entrance, and possibly money going to the county from each vehicle entering the park.

anyway..

there is a lady who rents beach house homes, who is a complete idiot, not to mention, severly against off-roaders, like us.

if you rent places at oceano, be aware of who you rent from, as your money might be going for our demise!!!
journeyman
QUOTE(Dusty Rhodes @ Apr 19 2007, 12:14 AM) [snapback]2240838[/snapback]
From what I gather, and someone chime in if I am stupid on this, if the state is able to purchase the land, they will leave it open for off road use. If the county decides not to sell, the lease will expire in June of 08 and the fear is they will shut it down for off road use.




So why is the county not interested in off road use? (I realize there may not be an answer to this, my assumption is liability)

Why IS the state interested in off road use for this area?



Is County/State the only options here?



Is the southern access (a really good idea...) issue mainly a financial issue?





Kevlar
The southern access issue involves private property (Conoco/Philips) and environmental sensitive areas (Oso Flaco lake). Both would involve some serious road maintenance issues because of the shifting dunes.

I think the county does want to sell because if they dont #1, they would have to manage it. #2 They would have the liability issue, assuming they would grant acess to ohv's.

If they dont sell, it would be a lose lose situation.

When it comes down to it I think they are just trying to get a better deal and/or some admission proceeds.
Sand Tramp
QUOTE(Kevlar @ Apr 18 2007, 02:36 PM) [snapback]2240955[/snapback]

The southern acess issue involves private property (Conoco/Philips) and environmental sensitive areas (Oso Flaco lake). Both would involve some serious road mainteance issues because of the shifting dunes.

I think the county does want to sell because if they dont #1, they would have to manage it. #2 They would have the liability issue, assuming they would grant acess to ohv's.

If they dont sell, it would be a lose lose situation.

When it comes down to it I think they are just trying to get a better deal and/or some admission proceeds.


Good Synopsis.
NODNARB
it is in thier best interest to sell. (if they think rationally, which may be in question)
they (the county) still gets revenue from offroaders as far as gas, food, etc. and they will NOT have to pay for managing the dunes.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2012 Invision Power Services, Inc.