Hey everyone. This is my first post to GlamisDunes.com and I need your advice. We are converting a Sand Sprite VI Mid-Engine Chassis to long-travel and we have bumped into a bit of a problem.

Our front suspension set up results in a-arms that are not parallel with one another and will undoubtedly result in tons of bump steer. We need an end load box that is 27 inches long or so, so that our a-arms will line up. We have looked for a box that will fit our application but haven't been able to. We are definately open to having someone custom make something, but have come up empty when asking local machining shops and even Woodward racks declined to make anything for our buggy.

We need ideas!!! Please post any ideas you might have or pics that may correct our problem. We really do not want to have to lengthen a-arms or narrow our front end.





The black line shows how the a-arms are misaligned causing unwanted bump steer. The red dot is where we would like to mount our a-arm to our rack to make them parallel.

Some other pics of the project...

The first thought is to lengthen the arms and have the pivots closer together. This seems out of the question now. Next thought is to make a center link of the right length and it will slide in a couple of fabricated mounts/bushings. then simply attach your current rack to the center link.

Using a front loaded rack would be easier than to use the current side load version.

Hey, is that my bellhousing?

Keep us posted with pics....looks like fun

John

I would say to use a centerload rack, and make a custom spreader bar to mount the arms out where you want them. It may look kinda silly but would get you where you need to get. You could also check into the rack that Funco uses. it looks pretty wide.

Make some mock tie rods and cycle the suspension, then move the pivot to where you want to put the rack and do the same. You may be surprised at the result. My opinion is you need to remake the arms so they pivot farther in because you are going to have problems with the heims at the trailing end binding.

First off, the car looks great! If I were in the same situation, I would look into a conventional automotive rack and pinion. I looked on eBay and saw some power racks and non-power racks that are wider. That would prevent you from having to scab onto the end of an after market unit. Even if the inboard tie rod is not right on, the red dot you can minimize your bump steer by having the tie rods run parallel to the arms, as you know. Just a thought, easier than making the frame more narrow.

I like the slider Idea best so far...or you could simply have some long clevises machined up, and shim the rack up about a half inch if that's also desired.

edit: like this:

Do you think a longer clevis would work? Would it cause any stress to the box?

The longer clevis will not work. it will break on the first hit.

good point on cycling your arms through the entire intended range because you may have bigger issues

John

I was thinking the clevises would break. We do have tie-rods for the current set-up and the suspension works fine except for the wicked bump steer.

We were considering lengthening the rack on either end and putting a collar on either end for stability. Any ideas for doing something like that? Any weak spots come to mind?

On an a-arm baja set up we built a center load rack was used. We made a center link of sorts that bolted to the rack and had tie rod mounts set on the ends to match the pivot points. The rest of the suspension needed help, but that part did fine.

Any pictures?

well, there ya go. lots of load against a couple of narrowly separated bearings & I guess it goes boom!

With the jamb nuts tight cycle the suspension, won't get more than 12"s or so out of it before the heim in the back binds. My car was very similar when I got it and ended up cutting off the whole front and redoing it. Here are soome pics.

[attachmentid=163421]
[attachmentid=163422]
[attachmentid=163423]

I had 1 rack that the clevises were threaded into the rack then welded. I ground off the weld very carefully and was able to unscrew the clevis from the rack. I then took and threaded a piece of cromo tubing on both ends the same size as the threads in the rack. Took a bolt and cut the head off so all that was left was the threads, screwed the two pieces togather and screwed the clevis back in and welded it all back togather. Ben working for about 5 years so far. U can do one side or both.

Can you post some pics?

So, you basically made extended clevises?

The clevis is not what will break if you make it from the correct material & make it sturdy enough. It will add levereage against the rack though.

Thats the ticket !. I had the same issue when I converted my 12" A-arm travel Scorpion to 16". I went to "Wright place" in Alpine CA. on old hiway 8. Just get one of their r&p's and then get another aluminum rack housing, cut off the ends to your desired length and weld the ends on to the other housing. Then get a longer rack, cut, drill and tap threads on each end to accept the heims. You will also need to fab a top cover plate out of steel . Wright has all of the material needed . Piece -O-cake !!. PM me if any questions, heres their # 619 561-4810, 9420 Flinn springs rd. Be prepared to do alot of tinkering, the placement of the r&p is crucial !!.

.

Fun summer project that has since been scrapped and in the process of a rebuild, but
maybe it'll help.


[attachmentid=163551]

This is the first thing that pops into my head when I saw your problem and how I would go about building it.

Start with some solid square tubing, notch a groove in one end for the clevis. Chuck it up in a lathe and have the back side turned down, then threaded to go onto the rack arms after you remove the stock clevis's. Get 2 bearings to go on the new shaft, or one big bushings. Build a housing for the bearings or bushing that mounts to the tube directly below it. You would need the bearings or bushing first, then turn the square tubing down so it fits inside the bearings or bushing.

Red= tubing
Green=bearings
Blue=bearing housing
Purple=frame tube below rack
Black=rack

Make sure the bearin housing doesn't prevent full turning which baically means, mount it out as far as you can from the rack, but not so far it limits the turning, that is unless you want to make the housing the turn stop which would work out fine. Also, you need 2 bearings or one big bushing, one bearing would become a piviot point, and even though it's putting less stress on the rack, it would still be applying stress to it which will cause it to wear out and or break eventualy...Just my .02, I think this would be fairly easy to build, and not sh*ty looking...

[attachmentid=163558]


Now, on to your other problem, the binding of the heims as they cycle, you can run high-missalignment spacers and double sheer the mounts. I use high missalignment spacers on my setup..
[attachmentid=163559]

Just looked at the side shot of your rail, I believe you're already running the high-missalignment spacers. The rear mounts are sticking straight out, I believe you would eleminate the binding at the back if you just mounted them at an angle going backward a bit instead of straight out, the front should be fine with the missalignment spacers you already have...

Yoshi, you always find the cool stuff. Where in the heck did you find solid tubing??

lol,..it's special tubing that is both empty, and full at the same time.....

I ment solid square material,..i'm so use to saying square and round tubing, the word solid doesn't really fit in either of them huh? lol....

Here ya go. I made you a picture......



pete
www.a-arm.com

The picture that ellobo provided would work but would add ALOT of load to the rack. I have done exactly what Yoshi mentioned. I have removed the heims from a end load rack and built some extension pieces that were supported a boss that was welded to the frame with a delrin bushing in it. This way the load is transfered to the frame and not the rack. [attachmentid=164430] The pisture I attached is a Mazzone standard travel car that I converted to a mid travel car.[attachmentid=164431]

It doesn't appear that drew_ballz99 is utilizing an inferior type of steering unit. I could be wrong, But It looks like a rectangular type rack and could certainly handle the extra loads when shared through the sister steel bar to the opposite bearings on the rack (as shown in the sketch). I honestly see no problems with this simple solution. After all...There are several manufacturers that sell this solution.

Isn't that drawing very similar to the way a HOWE power rack is set-up. They work, why wouldn't this?

DING DING DING.....You're right. I just couldn't put a name to it....Thanks for the conformation.

I was just over at Howe yesterday talking to Jeff about something different. On my new car I have a 2.5 power rack and am working on tie rod location to minimize bump steer, and you are right the Howe 2.5 power rack does have a plate accross the whole front of the rack and attaches at the ends. Jeff said the concept was to be able to mount the tie rods anywhere between the center of the rack and end of the rack. What you are proposing is beyond the end of the rack. You are right it will work, and will probably work for a long time, but there is no disputing the fact that the further that you move the tie rods out the more load it places on the rack. Having said that even with them moved out you may not exceed the limitations of the rack and it would work great. I have attached a picture from Howes web site demonstrationg how they intend for the tie rods to be mounted.[attachmentid=164596][attachmentid=164597] Notice that the rack length is so the power ram can be attached at the two ends and the tie rods are to be mounted towards the center of the rack, not necessarly on the center three bolts but towards the center.

ive made some long (extra long)racks for some builders and can make it as long as you want, on the long ones i like to make the rack gear out of 1.500 x1.00 with clevis machined in instead of screwed in; see Sand Sports mag. feb 2002 ....bob

Can you make one that is 27 inches long end to end? Do you have any pics?

Bob made one up for a car I'm working on....nice unit.

savage sand cars made a nice wide rack for this one!!

We decided to buy a center load rack and lengthen it ourselves using quarter inch square tubing. We had two 1 inch solid steel tubes threaded to accept heims to attach the tubes to the pins using a bolt. Clevises thread into the other end getting us 27.5 inches from clevis to clevis. The steel tubes run through a delrin type plastic bushing. What do you guys think? We still need to get thing mounted. New pics as soon as we do. See any potential problems?

Andrew

Where did you get that center load rack? I have one just like it and do not know who made it.

I'm not sure who makes them, but I ordered mine from Appletree Automotive. I think I've seen it in the Empi catalog, I might be wrong though.

Here are the before and after pics of the front end. I think we eliminated our severe bump steer problem. What do you all think?

looks good !!