I remember growing up, everyone was air cooled.
Then people started working with pinto, buick, Honda and rotary engines.
Been out of it for a while, now everything has gone to GM, subi and v-tec.

I would have thought that the Mazda rotary engines would have caught on better than they have, but I guess it might like the regular auto world. If rotary engines were easy to learn and work on, I guess a few more regular manufactures would be using them too..

Anyone know anything about them in sand cars?

I think the lack of torque is what turns most people off. There are quite a few hot rotaries out there though.

I think they are going away because they are tempermental, fuel mixing, and longevity. They still are fast and sound way cool

I agree. I had a friend with a very fast rotary and he had to change his spark plugs every trip. Most people don't want that level of maintenance.

rotary power Check these out!!!

I heard that other manufacturers didnt use them because Mazda bought the patent to the Wankle.

How bout this one for a race kart, 294cc and 48HP


The whole story

So who is gonna be first putting that in a trophy kart??

Whew! Did you see the price of that bad boy?

2800 GBP = $5507.84

Too much $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

As opposed to a $35,000 LS race motor?

Actually, rotary engines aren't very lightweight:

13B rotary with turbo; no flywheel or clutch------------------382 lbs.

Subaru 2.0 factory turbo 4 cam; no flywheel or clutch-------372 lbs.

Chevy LS1; no flywheel or clutch ------------------------------374 lbs.

Honda 3.2 V-6; no flywheel or clutch --------------------------342 lbs.


I have a mid eng turbo rotary buggy with Fortin for sale if u are interested
(needs some work)...........

I find it hard to believe that the LS1 weighs less than a 2.0 Subie. But what do I know. The LS1 seems to have alot more mass, therefor more weight.

the guy that owns the Kart track here in Tucson has a kart with one of those. I hear it is nasty fast..

You really think so? ...nails on a chalk board to me

It's not, it's 2 pounds more....hahaha

Factory Subie must have some heavy exhaust manifolds.

From Funcos website:

MOTOR WEIGHT COMPARISONS

Subaru 2.5L N/A 285lbs. The motor mounts are 4 lbs
Subaru 2.5L intercooled turbo 320lbs. The motor mounts are 4lbs.

Northstar V8 n/a 510lbs. The motor mounts = 12 lbs
Northstar V8 twin turbo 565lbs. The motor mounts = 12 lbs

LS1 V8 n/a 480lbs. The motor mounts = 12 lbs
LS1 V8 twin turbo 520lbs. The motor mounts = 12 lbs

Honda 3.5L intercooled turbo 465lbs.
Honda 3.5L n/a 430lbs.

Mazda rotary 2 rotor, 285lbs
Mazda rotary 3 rotor, 480lbs

VW Stroker 2.3L N/A 260lbs. No radiator
VW Turbo 2.2L 285lbs. No radiator, no intercooler

I heard the conspiracy theory that Ford and Chevy kept them from ever coming up. Cash is a powerful thing right. God Bless America!

Most 13B Turbo Engines weigh 285LBS - 300LBS with stock flywheel and stock manifolds. You can swap those parts out and make the engine much lighter, it just depends on what your trying to do as far as the Intake Manifold and throttle bodies, and of course budget. The OE Intake and throttle body on all the EFI Rotary's was WAY TOO HEAVY and the flywheels are all a minimum of 28lbs.

Also, who ever it is that was changing out their spark plugs every time out had the wrong setup. Perhaps the plugs we're too cold and kept fouling out from idling around? Either way that is not the case with a well built rotary setup. I've personally built rotary engines for small 2 seat rails and for larger 4 and 5 seaters with medeola tranny's. They all ran strong and held their own in the sand with anyone out there.

That being said, they can be very reliable and VERY FAST. As far as cost, there was a handfull of shops out there that overcharged everyone for engine packages. These engines are actually pretty cheap to build compared to what everyone else is charging for the Subaru's, Honda's or V8's. In my mind, you can't beat a rotary powered sand car.

We we're working on building turn key packages using a newer Mazda piston engine. The engine makes great power but it would cost $10,000 minimum for a 300-400hp package. I can build a 500HP Rotary, Turn Key for just about half that price.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

Once I solved my cooling issues (installed a huge oil cooler), my rotary was pretty reliable.

No torque though. Wife had a tough time driving it. But it sure was fast.

Rotary=Run.

Crowdog, just curious what your setup was? None of my customers ever complained about tourque issues. Rotary's are not known for making alot of torque but a 500hp rotary will make 400 lb/ft of torque, that should be plenty.

The reason we wanted to build that Mazda Piston engine is because a 300hp motor makes 300 ft/lbs of torque, but like I said they are expensive to build.

Anyway, I was just curious about what you we're running.

Redline built the engine about 8 years ago. Fuel injected turbo. 354 HP to the wheels.

Had to run it like a high strung two stroke.

Maybe we can get Greg George to chime in on the Mazda Motors, Last World Championship Race at Riverside I think it was an Ultra Stock Car, big orange pumkin. Engine sounded like a model airplane BZZZZZZZZZZZ!

I think the big V8 craze took the rotaries.. but I bet you will see a few more rotaries coming back especially with fastpartsusa.com stepping up and doing a high h.p. package for cheap.

Brandon

We're building a motor right now for a guy that will mainly be going out to dumont. His car should run hard. I'm hoping to have video footage of it soon. The only thing he lacks is a Mendeola tranny, otherwise we'd step up the power. Either way it'll get some attention.

hope to see that bad boy out at the D this year

Didn't the LV car have a rotary in it quite awhile ago?

Yes.............would love to get Josh's Opinion on this, since he has pretty much driven with all types of engines......

PWR MAD, Now that's a good quote:

"If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart
If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain"

Capitalism at it's finest

I have no heart

I don't know about that. It is bigger than it was before you met me young padawan.

I currently own both an blow through, carbed intercooled turbo rotary rail (mine for 3 seasons, the wife's for the past 2) and an intercooled twin turbo Northstar rail (for the past 3 seasons). The rotary rail is by far a better duner simply because of its lighter weight. When properly built, the rotary power range is much like that of a 2-stroke, it kicks in after 3000 rpm and doesn't stop until somewhere around 8,000 or more, with the proper apex seals. It does take some getting used to but once mastered the rotary is pretty bad ass. It took my wife a couple of dune rides (and a couple of scoldings, lol) to master its power band. Normal shift point for her rail is around 7,000 rpm. It is my belief that hastly put together rotaries built by past rotary engine builders (some whose names are pretty well known in the sand industry) made for the bad rap these engines got. The beauty of the rotary motor is its lack of reciprocal motion unlike the piston motor. The rotary doesn't require valves, push rods, cams, timing chains, rods all of which rob power.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 600HP (to the wheels) Northstar. There is nothing like the brute power of a V8 but you gotta give the rotary what it deserves. And yes the rotary does lack the torque a V8 puts out. But then again that is the reason why rotaries are more tranny friendly than V8s. I've run an 091 bus box built by Donny at DK Enterprises in Norwalk for the past 5 seasons without issues. The Northstar has busted up the Medeaola a few times :-)

My two cents.....

iam debating this question myself, all my buddies with buggies tell me to do a subie, but a part of me wants to do a turbo rotary..... I wish there was more info on the motors, i deal with street rides all day(my profession is blown SRT8 Chrysler Vehicles) I have had a few rotorary's use the dyno and would love to get one of them in my ride lol. guess time for research

I have had my rotary in my car since 03....I have not had a single problem. It Fuel Injected and Turbocharged running 10lbs of boost. It is running 285 to the ground. Oh yea.....1660lbs wet and its a 4 seater!!!

Drive it like a banchee

http://www.danzioperformance.com/video/8th_dyno_lv.mpg

YES and it was a three rotor.
DON~~~

Go with the Subie. If you're not convinced, drive both. The 2.5L subie is as light as the 2 rotor rotary and the SOHC version has much more torque, you can dune all day in 3rd gear. You can build a 300HP Subie for about $6K yourself, pretty straight forward, and reliable. Parts are available to take that motor above 450HP, and the DOHC version above 550HP. I have a 400HP SOHC motor and it's more than plenty in my 1850lb 4 seater.

Although rotary is interesting there's several things that deter me. I've followed this motor since Mazda released them in the early 70's. The problems are lack of off the shelf parts, very noisy, lack of torque, and they use oil, like a two stroke to keep them lubed. I'm told the oil injection system in the motor should be disabled because they don't do well in the sand. I was told you should mix the oil with the gas. Forget that!

And it was FAST AS HELL!!!!

No bottom end.

In a straight line, yes, but If you wanna dune , do the subie.

What's this all about. No wonder he advertises cheap motor packages.


"FastPartsUSA" AKA Jeff C. Warner scammed me!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not even sure if this guy's on the forum (moderators, please let me know if I should post this elsewhere or what, this is a serious warning that may relate to ALL RX-7 owners/enthusiasts), but PLEASE be warned. I've been waiting for almost two months on parts I ordered from "FastPartsUSA", one was a short shifter kit for ALL '81-92 RX-7's, for $125 shipped on ebay.

I called Mr. Jeff C. Warner before I clicked the "buy it now" button to make sure he'd accept a USPS Postal Money Order. Of course he would. I asked him what other parts he might have in stock for 1st gen '7s, since this auction clearly stated that his "company" was no longer dealing with them since they are now scarce in the Grants Pass, OR area that he's relocated to from California. He said they have another first gen billet aluminum underdrive pulley/serpentine belt kit that included the ecentric shaft pulley, water pump pulley, and alternator pulley. The kit supposedly retailed for $250, but he said he'd let me have one of the last ones for $150. He also said the shifters were designed to work with certain stock shift knobs or their ergonomic polished aluminum "rotor-engraved" piece for a mere $20. My $125 ebay purchase, with the $150 pulleys and the $20 shift knob came to $295 even-he was even going to pay the shipping as the short shifter auction covered the free shipping. "Great deal", I thought, until I still hadn't received the items in over three weeks.
The money order was purchased on Aug.2nd, and overnighted to him at:

Jeff C. Warner
650 Sunset Way
Grants Pass, Oregon, 97572

(541)787-4227 is the number listed on ebay and his website, which I believe is fastpartsusa.com, but during the first month/first five weeks he had called me from another number-(541)787-2018 that is apparently linked to the same line or has the same voicemail speech for the both. If the website is incorrect, I'll pull the link from my inbox at yahoo mail.

I would love to take legal action against Mr. Warner and fastpartsusa, but am unsure where to start. Would the local sheriff's department, state police of CA/OR, or some federal official be the ones to contact? If any of you other members or enthusiasts live around this area and could gather information for me, ANYTHING AT ALL, I would greatly appreciate it!

I don't know if he's a member of this forum or not, but I feel compelled to warn others of this scandal. I can post links to his feedback rating, seller's store, , copy my Ebay dispute, whatever it takes to show I'm being truthful if necessary.

If any of you could help me with the information, I'll name my next child after you. $300 might not be that much money for some of you guys, but I WORK for almost all my cash and don't enjoy getting taken for any amount, much less close to a felony theft charge level. If one person saves themselves from getting ripped off like I did, then I'll feel that my money contributed to at least a little good if I never see it back, but I'm going to try my hardest to call, ask, and bug the s*** out of every police/peace officer it takes until I can get the legal action I'm seeking from this guy.

Beware also, that this ebay name, "FastPartsUSA", has only been into effect since 11/15/06. For a little over six months prior to that Mr. Warner hid under the screen name "MazdaPartsClearance". I haven't searched enough for that one yet, but I'd say there were probably a few disputes against that screenname also.

Any info, help, or an anonamonous point in the right direction is all it could take to get the legal ball rolling. I really hate that the situation's come to this, but I've done everything else within my means so far, but Jeff's since blocked my number from his "business" line, won't answer ebay dispute emails/PM, and totally avoids my emails or any kind of contact I've attempted. I've started a Better Business Bureau claim against them, but still nothing in the way of receiving a refund. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me in anyway possible if you have the time, means, or whatever it takes to assist me in receiving a refund of the cash I paid for the money order.

MODERATORS: If this is in the wrong place, please give me a chance (a little over a day or so unless I reply sooner) to copy and paste this to the proper section. I am searching for assistance in locating this "business" as well as trying to start a legal matter in which I believe I could get a full refund if all the evidence were presented to a judge. I'd hate to send anybody to jail, but this guy needs to sit behind bars for a while to help him understand what he's doing to the people he's stealing hard-earned money from. These kinds of things really upset some people (like me), but I had given the seller plenty of time before leaving negative feedback and contacting ebay. He went from not answering calls to blocking them altogether from me. If only one person takes heed and passes up an offer from him, I'll feel like my job is almost acomplished. Please be careful to all out there, especially when you bid and buy on ebay. Make sure you're got the seller's correct (and verified address) and at least one valid phone number, and be weary if the website lists only a number with out an address. Common sence is one of the best methods possible to determine wheter or not to bid on an item from a certain seller. If it seems "to good to be true", it usually is. Any help, comments, constructive critisim, etc. is extremely welcome. Once again, thanks for everybodys time, help, and cooperation.

-Adam Collins
(606) 922-4023
__________________
Merry CHRISTmas to all...

sadly alot of guys are doing this in the industry, because we are nearly 95% web or fone orders, contact the BBB they will be able to point you in the right direction!!! if he is not legit or has nor record contact the city police of that area code, they will be able to help with paperwork

If you have any questions about Rotary powerplants normally aspirated or turbocharged let me know I will be glad to answer any questions. Carbed or Injected they both make good reliable power. As far as reliability and availability of parts they are very reliable if built/tuned properly.