ok here is the deal ,it took a long time to pry me away from a carb. I feel like I sold out when I went to fuel injection but damm it works good !

I work on all my own stuff, not now I dont know crap about tuning or working on my fuel injection. I dont feel complete if I cant even work on my stuff !!!!!!!!!!!

anyone else feel like this ?

hell my mefi ecm is locked with a code so I cant even look at the parameters ! Is this the same thinking of years ago when there were secret cam grinds, chamber shaping, muffler bearings, ect , that the builder would not even tell the customer about !

I am going to attempt to reflash my mefi and do my own tuning so i will be asking lots of questions here and I hope the masters will shed some light.

here is my first question


whats controlling spark advance ? engine rpms ?
engine load via the map sensor?
a combo ?

Scotty-

depends on what motor you have. With everything with no distributor now, it's all from a crank sensor. (spark advance). With old GM TBI systems, they were really easy to tune. The MAP sensor did deal with load, as well did the TPS. For the new stuff, either a good snap-on scanner will work, or EFI Live works great for a laptop. Just alot of $$$ to play around with.

thats right, I am looking at $600 for tune and burn software. but if i can learn it is worth it. I have 3 motors right now I want to tweak and I think going to someone else would be wayyyyyyyyyyyy more. either way I want to be able to do my own thing

Go to ls1tech.com, you will find all the info your mind will absorb.

site looked cool but was giving me problems. I will try later

Try 4130...

Sign up as a menber and then you can also do searches. There is a section just for pcm tunning that will give you alot of info.

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whats that jd ?

What you are finding is the exact reason I did not go with the Delphi no matter what the cost.
I do know that software should be a bit a bit easier to come by. MSD and Pinless Wiring both are selling the Delfi MEFI. Maybe check with them about software as well as where you have so far.

1020.....

You may want to go give a read through the tuning section of the Megasquirt manual http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mtune.htm

Quite a bit of the information is general enough to apply to other computers as well. The MS is a Speed Density system and I assume your Delfi is Mass Air so some things are a little different but that's more a matter of the guys writing the firmware and not as much of a concern when tuning.

In fact you may want to consider going the MS route instead. The software is 100% free and you could probably build three new MSes for those three motors for less than the tuning software for the Delfi. You'd also have a system that's far for suitable for someone who wants to work on their own stuff and has an inherent need to tinker and experiment

If it is the mefi 4 it is a speed density system.

I am going to check the ms system out also. it looks like they have the most info and help out there.

who has the best deal on a ms ????

get the kit ?

or have someone else put it together ?

what onboard map should you have ? can you get the one for turbo but still use it on a na motor ?

If you're completely new to EFI from a tuning aspect, I think the MEFI software would be easier to deal with than the MS. If you're not into electronics and you're looking at the MS, I would get one already assembled. In fact, for a MS, you should PM subie4me on the board. Subie4me has a lot of MS experience!
If you think you might like doing this tuning stuff, and might end up doing more, I would highly recommend you take the EFI-101 class from EFI University. EFI 101

do you know if they are Accredited ? if so my work will pay. I could not tell from the web page.

I've ordered from Glens Garage and Sparkfun with good results in the past. Not sure who has the best deal right now but usually they're all pretty close in price. If you know how to solder and have worked with solid state components before the kit is very easy to assemble...if you doubt your abilities though the pre-assembled gives good peace of mind.

As already mentioned Subie4me is a great resource with lots of experience using the MS in sandcards.




I don't think anyone still offers the na map, unless things have changed recently that was only an option on the very earliest kits and since then all kits have had a map that will work for up to around 20psi of boost - above that you'll have to get a different map that can handle higher pressures..but availability of those comes and goes. There's no problem using the "turbo" map on a na motor - you just won't use all of it's range.

I get most of my stuff from here
.I usually just get the kits, and put them together myself. It takes me around three hours to do, but I've built 25 or 30 of them. You might buy a stimulator kit and assemble it first. That will give you some soldering practice. If you really want to learn a lot about efi, the megasquirts are a great way to go. They also have a lot more capabilities than you might expect. There are a lot of people willing to help on the ms site, plus at least three that I know of here.

good info guys

HUH?

DIYautotune was actually who I meant when I said Sparkfun ... I got my WBO2 from them and was very happy with the service and price.

Sparkfun has some nice TTL/RS232 -> Bluetooth adapters that I've been thinking about for some projects....got my hobbies mixed Though I was thinking about trying to put one of the sparkfun adapters into my MS so I could tune wirelessly

RS-Autosport - www.rs-autosport.net - is the other place I was thinking of but couldn't remember the name of. His wiring harness kit is very nice. For <$60 you get all the wire you need to do almost any install and it's good high quality (GXL) wire properly color coded and labeled so it's very easy to work with. He also has (and provides to most of the other retailers) the 3 and 4 bar MAP sensors for running boost up into the 30-40psi range.

do you guys like the serial cable or usb cable for tuning ? or does it just mater what computer set up you have ?

do you recomend the relay board also ? or just do your own ?

I've only worked with the MS1 which is serial only, I believe the MS2 is serial as well but I haven't played with it....and the new variants I know even less about since I haven't had time to keep up.

I use a serial to USB converter since my new notebook doesn't have any serial ports. I've had no problems with this and use the converter for a bunch of things I have that need a serial port (GPS, WBO2, Radio stuff....)

I bought a relay board...but ended up not using it on my Manx. I'm still not sure if that was a good call or not to be honest. And since I'm still debating where to permanently mount the MS it's a decision I haven't finished making yet. Given that I'm running a modified MS to work with the Ford TFI dizzy and Ford PWM IAC I don't think I'll end up using the relay board since those functions would have to bypass it anyway.

On the other hand it does make for a nice clean install if you're not using some of the extra features of the MSnS-Extra code like I am.


The Microsquirt is also apparently nearly ready for release and may prove to be an attractive option for sandcars due to it's small form factor and completely sealed design:
http://www.microsquirt.info/

The big downsides are no PWM so you're a little more limited on your options in regards to what injectors you can run on some setups.

Plus being a full-assembled unit price will be a little higher. For bikes, quads and SXS's though it's looking like a very attractive little unit. And the sealed case and connector make it appealing in general for off-road use.

can the ms controll your cooling fans ?

Scott, have Jack(Subie4Me) do the MS. He did mine so he knows how to set it up.

Yes. Mine is the MS1. With the SquirtandSpark ignition stuff.

Yep. I use it to control the fan on my manx.

The MSNS-extra code adds a lot of features like that:
http://www.msextra.com/
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/

so what is the way to go ms1 or ms 2 ?

need to control fuel and spark

I have MS1 and control both.

Depends.


MS1 with the MSnS-E code can do fuel and spark.

MS2 can do fuel and spark out of the box.


MSnS-E is very mature and is in very wide use - MS2 is newer with more potential down the road...but isn't as proven yet. I haven't checked on MS2 lately but a year or so ago it was still lacking some of the features of the MSnS-E code...or only offered them as experimental features.

The MS2 is based off of a faster processor with more memory though meaning it has more potential for improvements down the road.

MS1 has a larger user group and that means more support.


So it's not really a question with an easy answer.


If the MS1 with MSnS-E offers what you need it's proven reliable solution.

On the other hand if you're looking to experiment the MS2 is a better platform and has more of a long term future than the MS1.


The confusing part is MS1 and MS2 mainly refer the processor and firmware. The bigger difference are the v2.2 vs. V3 boards. Either one can be built as a MS1 or MS2. I could upgrade my V2.2 board MS1 to a MS2 by adding the daughterboard that adds the newer processor. And someday I probably will once some of the features on MS2 are more mature.

The v2.2 boards are cheaper..but don't have as many hardware features built-in. The v3 boards have more support built in for stuff like PWM IAC, fan control, spark control and other stuff that on a 2.2 board requires some modifications.

If you're looking to do fuel and spark then I'd probably suggest going with the v3 board. As for MS1 vs. MS2 you'd have to read the info on MS2 to see what the status is on the type of spark and other features that you'd be using.

It mostly depends on what type of ignition you will use, and how many changes you are willing (and able) to do to it. I use the earlier v2.2 boards with the ms1 chip for 4 cyl subies, vw's, and turbo rhino's. I do have to do some hardware mods, but over all they are faster to assemble. I use the newer version 3 board for honda , and subie 6 cylinder motors because they will handle the higher current of 6 peak and hold (low impedence) injectors without any changes. Also the v3 board already has a place to mount high current drivers that can be used to operate the avcs solinoids on the subie 6, as well as the vvl. If you tell us what motor you wanna squirt, it will be easier to help steer you in the right direction.

The relay board's purpose was to make it easier for people to get everything hooked up correctly. If wiring up relays doesn't bother you, then you don't need it.

I am lookin at putting it on a ecotec, not sure if I am going na or turbo but want to go both directions when needed.

controlling fuel under boost with the ms ?

do you use a variable rate fuel pressure regulator ?

or can you controll the injectors under boost conditions ?

No, you do not need a rising rate regulator.

You control fuel through a 12 x 12 map that can even be setup for different load and rpm cells if you like. In other words, if you aren't turboed, then you could redefine the load rows so that they only go up to say 100kpa giving you better resolution. If you turbo it, then you'll want load zones that will reach your maximum boost levels.

For the ecotec you have a couple of options. You could go with the gm dis setup (like Phil's). It will work off of the stock crank trigger. If you don't mind some fab work, you could mount a different trigger wheel that is a multiple of 4, and use a different ignition setup that will give you programable soft and hard rev limits. The first option is the easiest to do. You just need to pickup a dis module, a v2.2 ms with the ms1 chip. The second choice would be easier to do for most people by starting with a v3 board, and ms1 chip.

v2.2 ms with the ms1 chip


how about controlling the idle air controll ?

Not a problem.

My manx I run a v2.2 with MS1 and have it controlling a PWM IAC, Fans, ignition and fuel. When I finish the changes on the manx and get it running again I may even go ahead and add a solenoid so I can run boost control as well.

It's all part of the MSnS-extra code.

You do have to add a better output transistor to run PWM IAC - but it's a part you can pickup at radio shack and only takes a few minutes to graft onto the board. The instructions are on the MSnS-E site I posted yesterday.

How many wires does your iac have? If it's a three wire type, then you would probably want to purchase a board that Glens garage sells for that. It's around 20 bucks. If you have the two wire iac, then it's like Jason said.

4 wire iac here ? it is the one on the right

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/IAC.htm

do i need ms2 for this?

what is phil running on his eco ? should be the same

Not running the IAC on mine. Just adjusted the screw under the throttle arm.

I read you can use the stimulator when you build the ecu. can you also use it when you build your harness ?

No, it's just for testing your ms after you build it. You plug it in instead of the harness. It then outputs an rpm signal, and has led's that shows the injector drive is working. It also has pots that simulate air temp,water temp,o2 sensor. It doesn't check everything, but it's pretty handy to have. As I mentioned earlier, you should build one of these first. If you have a problem with it, then you probably ought to buy a preassembled ms.

I think I am going to buy pre assembled. just want to make sure i get the ms that will have all the stuff i want in it.