Anybody using these 2.5 coilover/bypass's? At $1500 each, are they worth it over the two seperates?

Morphic ran them on his car in the Parker 400 sportsman class and straight out of the box they seemed to do VERY well. If it were not for the lack of coil spring combos that comes with a 3" shock, they would be on my rockcrawler

I'm not really a fan of them.

piston size & oil capacity of a 2.0 shock is not going to be enough to keep from fading on a long hard run.
you could run a 2.0 coilover & 2.5" bypass for close to the same money and have a LOT more oil capacity.

They sound like a good product, don't get me wrong. What's the application?

I have some experience with them on a race Rhino. The vehicle weight is pretty low, 1300 lbs.
Those shocks are incredibly tunable, all from the outside. I was extremely impressed. We went from the car working terrible at the start of our test, to what I believe is the best handling car in a few hours. All without ever taking a shock apart! The next time I build a new off-road vehicle, I will probably be using Revolution shocks.

A lot of people are saying this but I dont know how many of them have any experience with the shocks. I've never heard a single person with any coilover of any size state they experienced fade IN THE DUNES. I'd like to see somebody actually test them out on a mid sized dune car.

agreed. I personally have NO experience with them. I asked what the application was, since if it's a duner only, I wouldn't worry about shock fade.

How much oil is the amount needed to avoid "shock fade" and please tell everyone how much less oil is in those shocks than the comparison. Who has reported shock fade to you on these shocks and when you explain to everyone what the cause of shock fade is make sure you know those components exist in that product. NODNARB, you repeated this worn out opinion of yours in many past threads and have been wrong every time. I have met these guys and seen the product in action, have you? What perfect brand shock do you run on your little truck that you don't race? Please feel free to avoid the questions that you can't answer, to save yourself.... Fix the flat bill

Dayum...... Did someone forget to take their meds?

I am guessing that shock fade on a race vehicle like the morphic race car is a good assumption. They did a write in the latest sand addiction calling it a class one car. 95% of class one cars are running 2.5c/o and 4.0 bypass in the rear 2.5 c/o and 3.0 bypass in the front I am sure that is for a reason, so I dont see how a 2.5 and 3.0 internal bypass can hold up as well as the other class one's.

Shock Fade does not occur in Morphic's race car. It does not occur in Ochoa's Class 7 truck either. For example, Sid's class 7 truck used to have 8 shocks of another brand. In the rear it had a 2.5" coil over shock with valving and a 3" bypass. We replaced all of his shocks with 4 Revolution 3.0's. His exact comment to me was "Now my truck handling does not change throughout the race"......NO SHOCK FADE. Now he does not have to rebuild his shocks every race either. This is because our shocks are simply better. When they heat up (as all shocks do), there are no ill effects. This remains true until the shock actually gets so hot that a seal blows and we haven't had that happen either. If anyone has any questions, feel free to call me at 619-954-9722, or e-mail at brandon@rrshocks.com.......By the way we should have our new updated web site done this week for all to see.
Thanks

Fine, Revolution Racing shocks are the best! they don't fade because apparently the laws of physice do not apply to them!

Does that make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?

I'll try to answer all of your questions, cheif...

I am stating an OPINION. a shock moving up & down, no matter what kind of "valving" is in them, is turning kinetic energy (movement) into heat. They do this through the friction between the oil and the valving, whether that's shims, or the valves that revo's use. That is a shock's job...turning movement into heat. I can fade my 2.5" SWAYAWAY shocks (one at each wheel) on my truck in about 40 miles going fast. I fail to see how the revolution shocks, while having less oil capacity can resist heating up & fading. If the revolution shocks have some sort of variable valving in them, or a multi-viscosity oil of some sort, I can maybe see how they do not change as heat goes way up high...But then, at the same time, if they can come up with some sort of super-trick oil, I doubt they'd be in the shock biz...there'd be a lot more money to be made elsewhere...

Shock fade is when the oil gets tiny bubbles in it because of heat, and/or the oil loses viscosity because of heat, no? What "parts" do these shocks not have that makes them resistant to fade? I know they don't have valving shims, but what difference does that make?

Ya know what? I have NO CLUE how much less oil the Revolution shocks have in them, But from what I understand, they are basically a 2.0 bypass encased in a 2.5" "outer shell" am I incorrect?
A 2.0 x 10" vs. 2.5 x 10" shock should have about 50 cu. in. less oil in the body if I did my math right...so I am ASS-U-ME ing thet the revo's have that much less oil also.

No, I have not met with the revolution guys, or seen the product in action.

I certainly don't have the "perfect" shock....I run swayaway 2.5's that I bought used off the RDC classifieds. and i blew both rears up on my little POS truck while racing it.

by the way, until you meet me, plese don't assume that since I have a truck that I'm a flatbiller. I wear white socks and my bill is always curved. I am sorry that I can't afford to race my truck all season like some people can, but I did enter it over Memorial weekend at the MORE race & had the time of my life, even though we only completed 80 miles. We'll be racing it in Sept. also, if money allows. What do you race?


Oh crap...hmmm...I just thought of something that might go against everything I just typed...if the piston is solid, and forces the oil thru tubes at high pressure, I could almost see how any bubbles in the oil would be squeezed down to almost nothing, thus reducing the shock fade...oh my...maybe I am the asshat. Is this how they work? If so, I might have seen the light!

-Brandon-

note to self, avoid personal opinions around 4u21der. wow !

I believe that the reservoirs on the Revolution Shocks are also a larger diameter to increase oil volume. With the larger diameter it would also take less movement of the piston in the reservoir in relationship to the shaft movement creating less heat compared to others. Just an idea.

from what I understand, the resivoir piston shouldn't be moving much, and is not really a contributor to heat/damping.

No Shiet...Chill out Dude

I agree that there is not much reservoir piston movement and there for it is not a huge heat generator. But the larger diameter reservoir would increase oil capacity and offset the oil capacity in the shock body being slightly less.

cool thread, I hope the revolution guy can chime back in and tell us why his are different and what helps them be less suseptible to fade and the biggest question is, whether fade is really a factor in the dunes vs. high speed desert racing.

yeah, I hope he chimes in...I'm very curious as to what will make them less suceptiblt to fade...

My opinion (not that it's worth too much) is that fade isn't going to be of much concern for a duner.

Fade in the dunes has already been answered. Justin at Revenge is using Fox airs on the Silencer. He has said fade is not an issue in the dunes.

I talked to the Fox guys about their air shocks, got the same answer. It would take a lot of hard duning for hours to fade the air shock. But in the desert it a different story. The shock is working more so heat builds faster thus fade.

So, yes fade is less of an issue in the dunes.

I think the "bubbles" form when the oil reaches it's boiling point (like brake systems).

I'm not sure capacity is the biggest issue in the larger shocks though. Is it possible the design of the piston is just more efficient (or less even???) that contributes to the shocks ability to perform similarly to a larger Fox/King (if indeed it does)?

I'm between a rock and a hard spot.All this talk about the Revos and still no personal experience posts that tell me how I can justify the cost.They sound too good to be true and at 1500 bux each they'd better be.Does anyone here run them?What were the results?

All this discussion about the cost, are they more than a set of emulsion coil carriers and a set of bypasses at each corner?

Yes. But it's nice to install the shocks and know that they won't have to come off for revalving. If you find yourself in different terrains thoughout the year you can adjust them yourself, on the car. The time saved in not having to remove the shock and the downtime while waiting to have your shock revalved could be well worth it.

Good point.

When designing things it's great only having to make room for one shock per corner. Trying to get all the suspension geometry correct and fitting a coil-over and by-pass on each corner can be a pain.

How much does re-valving cost these days?

I revalved mine last year and shimms alone were like 60 bucks
I forget how much oil was and a rebiult kit were
But it was somewhere in the 100 dollor range with new shimms/valve stack

this is for 2 shocks

Who did you have do this work? Would you use this company again? Fox oil is$35.00 gal.

I had the rears done at S/U a few months back and it was $75.00 a shock to re-valve and change oil.

I did it myself

Hey 4u21der: I responded to all your assumptions/questions...and I see you've posted in here since my response, but you did not answer any of my questions, which I think are valid. Care to respond?

It makes zero sense to debate with you because you simply can't comprehend beyond your little circle that you keep going around in. The OIL exists, the "tiny bubbles" do not, unless You put them there. Why would anyone want to continue this as you are so far behind technology when you do discover how far off you are you will then begin to spew out anything to maintain a rep. We have all witnessed this before from CarlP. He is now departed. You might consider.

ya know what? I've looked over your few posts here and you have done nothing but state that these shocks do not fade. All I am asking is WHY NOT?

Please don't act all high and mighty on me...I really don't care about my "rep" or lack thereof, LOL...I'm just a slack-jawed, garage hack...but I'd really like to know some REAL details on these shocks. I know I didn't ask for the carbonated shock oil last time I bought some, so I didn't "put them there" Please tell me and everyone else that might be interested the reason as to why they don't fade. Seriously, I might just be smart enough to absorb some of that high tech stuff that you apparently know so much about.

If you have these answers why do you continuously dance around the question, then when I try & pin you down for an answer, you sidestep the question by trying to belittle me? ...if you are not yet in sales or politics, you might consider a career change.

I'm looking for some of the same answers.I understand the advantage of easy valving changes but what else is there to them that makes them worth 1500bux per corner? Anything?Why is there almost no info about them anywhere? I'm still waiting for more than just hearsay about them.

If 4u21der can’t find the words to explain it, you would think Revolution could. Where did he go…

This is interesting and I would like to know a little more about the transfer of oil through the bypasses. It must be diferent if it reduces fade…

I think it's interesting, too & would like to know. (even though it appears that my mind is too feeble to grasp the concept) Like I said before, the only thought i've had on it was that if the oil is being pushed thru the tubes at a higher pressure than other shocks, the bubbles could be compressed smaller than normal & reduce fade...that's the only way I see it being different, but I have no clue if that's it or not, just a guess.

I can kinda understand if he doesn't want to divulge secrets, but on the other hand, it is patented, and it's not that hard to open up a shock if you are determined to steal someone's ideas.

I emailed Brandon at revolution about a week ago asking for more info on my theory, but no response yet.

The original question was has anybody run these shocks and if so are they worth the money? If you go to this link http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index....howtopic=106165 there is plenty of real world feed back.

I am sure that after repeated beating on his shocks Brandon is not too eager to educate you in shock theory or how his shock works. You usually do not get the most help when you publicly slander the product and then ask for clarification afterwards.

I am no shock expert but it would seem to me that if you force oil thru a stack of discs on a piston at speed you would create more aeration than forcing the same amount of oil at the same velocity thru some sort of check ball. Not sure but just an idea.

I have seen these shocks in person. The price is partially due to the exacting levels of quality control, the machine work and the materials and finishes used.

Fox and King have different levels of shock, from what we use in the sand to their race shocks. What Revolution did with these shocks was analyzed the best materials, features and finishes on every part in the shock from all mfrs and combined the best of the best in all aspects. Although Fox and King use 90% of the same materials in their parts, there are some differences and advantages to each. So for example, the threads on the body are machined deeper, the reservoir has a finish that helps it conduct heat, the shaft is treated to a specific hardness, then finished to decrease wear, etc.

Another component of the price is the convenience. The only other option is to tab the car for dual shocks at all 4 corners and pay for 8 shocks, plus the added weight of 8 shocks to the car weight. There is a definite weight savings and a simplicity to having only 4 adjustable shocks, and one has to pay a little extra for it.

Depending on one's situation, these might be cost effective, maybe not. In my position, I was interested in these for quite a while, but in the end it was far cheaper for me to get the front end tabbed for another shock and just buy Fox bypass shocks.


If I were selecting shocks for a new car, I'd take a ride in a rail with these installed and see how they really work. I've heard from a few people that they are awesome, but I'm a "see it for myself" kind of guy. If they ride as advertised, I think they'd work great on a sandcar with 2.5" in front and 3" in rear.

I don't think I've ever "publicly slandered" anyone's product.

I think you're on the right track in your second paragraph

I cruised by FMS today and one of his V3 SS's had been converted over from coil/bypass to the Evos. It has 3.0s out back and 2.5s up front. Jim didnt do the conversion but mentioned that the owner was extremely happy with the new shocks and from what I gather, Revo spent a lot of time with the owner of the car dialing it in.

He is mostly in to desert driving but goes to Glamis occasionaly. Hopefully we'll see him around this year and can get a ride to see. They look so much cleaner. The reservoir is at least twice the size of Fox/Kings.

Was this the car?

Thats the car i saw too
That pic is at high-n-low motorsports in el centro
They said the evos worked awesome
They said it was better than it was with bypasses
never seen it run.....just what they told me

Well, since nobody can give any sort of explanation, I'll just assume that they resist fade by use of pixie dust & voodoo.

I have some extra pixie dust that I am willing to sell at a resonable price if anyone is interested.

And who has the voodoo?

That would be me… But it’s very expensive…

More than shock oil?

sneak into his garage.. it's right behind the muffler bearings and horsepower grease!