What is your opinion on using half shafts instead of CV's ands axles? I currently run half shafts and really like them. I am however concerned about trans life. There is not much lash or give in the half shafts......

What do you guy's think????

My thoughts so far- The 2d bearing on te side cover is tiny-and with hard use it will be a problem with or without c/v's and or joint shafts- The bigger units are quite strong you get exactly what you pay for- Jess

please read & search:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_joint

How do the definitions help with understanding M T's position on the the use of either?

Ok, two quick statements from me.......

I posted this in the Mende section to get Mende's opinion on the use of the axles pertaining to trans life and possible problems. What is Mende's opinion.

Second, I own and use Jess's product. I really like them and I believe I was one of his first set's used in a high mileage, hard-pack scenario. I have not had one issue with the axles or the trans.
This post was not intended to bash the axles, merely to compare the two systems and what to watch for. I support Jess and his product......

The main Thing that is different from a cv style and u joints is the occilation that A u joint will make -its like a curve -the u joints speed up and slow down every revolution -This in certain conditions will cause a vibration -Mainly in driveline's that are spinning 4 -5 times faster than a 1/2 shaft- We have found the occilation is quite slow over the curve on this application that is does not cause vibs at all - Jess

I think mende will have tech info only at this point about c/v's and u joints to offer- They want you to research this issue for your self- Jess

I agree. Would Mendi please answer the question asked?

I had installed the half shafts at the beginning of the season last season. Now I need to pull the trans to have it gone through due to the fact that its making noise. Did the half shafts cause the premature wear or was it something else? last season was the second season on the trans.

My question to you is how many c/v 's went out thru that time ? If you take a weak link away-there's going to be another waiting for you around the corner- Are you running a 2d ? a few other things- Its impossible to drive exactly the same every season -Most guys I talk to are happy to get a season -Mende if you guys want to form an opinion we need you to run a set in a car- Jess

Let me get this right Jess, your saying that its better to run the half shafts and rebuild your trans every season..cost around 700.00 dollors and about a half a day labor. Than it is to replace your CV's evey other season at a cost of 200.00 dollors and a hour labor, is this what you are saying?

Actually I am more refering to not having to replace your axles every year- But you may still have to do your trans as sceduled -so not quite- I wish you could get two seasons out of a trans - some do some don't - Most that change to The U joints are just happy to be done with the Mess- Jess

Hey Jess, my tail light burned out and I think your half shafts probably had something to do with it. I think you are definitely responsible, but don't worry it is nothing that lots and lots of money can't fix.


Oh and Fugitive1 just so you know I am going on my second season with Jess's axles and I did not have to pull the trans and do a rebuild and my axles have the the torque limiters which are heavier than the standard axles. So my cost is $0.00 and the maintenance is very easy, pump a little grease through the zerk on the ujoints and the slip yolk and call it good.

and jess, if your shafts mess up my paint job ill be wanting some $ also, ps after 70 gallons of fuel your powder is fading on them what your plans on fixing that, later jess farmdog.

Ask what he did for the guys when their axels failed after ONE run.

I started using these dribeshafts on a very fresh trans. I will know the good or bad in a few months.

I went though 4 CV's and most of a 2D in 1 season. (Turbo Honda car).
2D had bad- R/P, 2nd, 3rd, main shaft, misc bearings. OUCH!

My driving style has changed so we will see.

are we tailking about swark or who ?

Will the OSCILLATION from the half shafts effect the trany..vibration etc?

Not sure who he's talking to about one run- In the begining we did some testing and had some one runners - got over that- Now there is a guy in oregon who would love to tell stories about how things are my fault-He's milking things pretty good- Trying to blame a 2d trans on me-and a set of mid board bolts he installed and never retorqued that broke off-But in these cases my axles never failed there still working fine- So the big question If the axles are working -Slipping -Staying together -welds holding -workmanship in general to good satisfaction levels- Do I deserve the blame for parts around the axles - ? Jess

Sorry, I can't help myself...OSCILLATION!!!

Thanks I'll fix it

mine were an early set that failed after one run, and that bastard Jess paid shipping both ways fixed them for free and paid to overnight ship them back so I had plenty of time to get them in before the trip. With service like that I have no idea how he stays in business.

OK, I was afraid this might turn into a "burn session" and that was not my intent. I was not targeting Jess's product, but asking for an opinion on all drive shaft type axles. I will state again, I run them on my car and I am very satisfied. Just looking for input.

Jess,
Sorry if this caused you any problems. I did not intend for you to have to defend your product. Your product and business practice speak for themselves.....

sI1111 you didn't turn this into a "burn session" some one else did, chill it's OK

Its not your fault- Its a very delicate subject- There's the old way of thinking and the new way- there kinda banging together-but the old way keeps trying to smash out the new- Because some people have allot to hold on to with there investments -There will be allot of trany builders going along with My axles are hard on trans axles -And My stand point is maybe its time to build some of the parts a little stronger -and a bit more in the newer thinking Era - the old way is still good but I believe there can be a better way to do things -Time Will certianly tell -I'd also like to say Please don't hold me to some standard of 25 years ago- Because this is something technoligy has allowed us to achieve- In short Quit bringing that up " ah this did not work 25 years ago " -Jess

I think this subject is ALWAYS going to be the same as the old "DOM vs Chomo" discussion. There are those that will stay with CVs and those that will go with U-joint axles. I think either kind is use at your own risk and shouldn't be blamed for other failures......be responsible for your choice. I myself have ran Jess's axles for over a year with no ill effects that can be detected at this point. At some time I will have my 2D tranny checked out and if it needs any repair I will pay for it. If at that time the builder REALLY thinks that the axles caused the problems, then I will deal with it myself.

like c kid said you didnt start it, farmdog.

The guy making the shafts. The axels are a band aid to the real issue of a car not being set up correctly. Why is people that are racing score not running these? I talked to several trans builds out there including Fortin and they all said that in time you will break your trans cause they don't do good with the side force that the axels are putting on the trans. So if people think that they are going to solve their angle problem with someones axels I think they need to go back to your builder and let them figure it out. Goood luck to everyone that puts them on your car but I know of two people in my group that tried them and they both ended up not working and one did damage to the car.

I think you may be generalizing a bit.

This is just like saying all humans are murderers just because there are some on death row. You have to look at the specifics of each case and determine the real cause of the problem, if there is one. What type of splines, how much clearance, were they properly lubed, etc.

There ar several different mfrs of u-joint half shafts and they each have a slightly different approach and philosophy to it. The differences are in the details, and a lot of the details aren't visible unless they're disassembled.

You are right Steve. But why have the axels caused issues in two differant manufacture cars? I just don't think they are proven to work. I still think it is a band aid to the real issue. Run them in a real offraod car and see what happens and then we'll talk. It's all in the setup.

you are correct and since no one has ever damaged a transaxle with cv's the ujoints must be the problem. Oh wait people damage crappy transaxles all the time no matter what axles they are running. I remember a sand car challenge that ate 10? or 15? transaxles and I don't think that any of them were running ujoints. So pull your head out of the sand and run that you are comfortable with.

You can run what ever you want but when it breaks he'll say it not my fault! Just wait and see for yourself. Like I said before untill a REAL offroad race team run them they are not proven.

Maybe he's saying that because it's not his fault.


It's difficult to determine the real cause of some of these failures. At one point, my trailing arm tabs ripped, and I suspected that they failed in part due to my u-joint shafts. After taking the car to a different fabricator and the shafts back to the builder, they both determined that it was not the case. The fabricator showed me the poor welds and mild steel that was used on the tabs (as opposed to what I had requested) and the u joints slid very easily and showed no signs of stress or contact.

Once the tabs were replaced with the proper material and welded correctly, the problem has not resurfaced. Sometimes things fail due to poor design, or the stresses placed on it by other components, or just plain wear and tear. Just because somthing failed after installing a new component doesn't always mean the newest component caused the failure. Sometimes, it's just an unfortunate coincidence.

I think were covering some real good points back and fourth- They have been used in desert cars dual purpose - And one full on race car- with more to come soon- We are working on the full on desert car the slips get hot- We have a heat sink device and also 5 times more lube then origianly to fix that problem-as for these being a band aid-In some cases they most certianly are -the car was built wierd and the c/v's are running in a bad condition not due to the c/v's fault- But in other cases the c/v's are to small for the car to begin with-A few area's in where our product is pretty far out in front -angle is one and ease of greace and lack of mess -here's an example of the start of the desert cars-Not much horse power -but an insane amount of wheel travel-By the way- he told me his car handled the whoops a bit better and he noticed the suspension travel helping -Jess

OK not every rail out there are "Real Offroad Race cars" and a lot of the chassis being made would not even hold up in a offroad race, some of them might. I myself use mine as recreation, I am not a racer and my family is not a race team. I know the limits of my driving and my car. I think a lot of the problems with cars and parts today is that people are pushing them WAY beyond the limits of what they were originally designed to do and parts will fail. So why do I have to only buy parts that are Race Proven? I will never go back to CVs and dont think that the u-joint axles are doing any harm with my driving style, I may be wrong, but it is my choice and I am willing to take the chance because they work. If the axle breaks, I know Jess would take care of it, but if the tranny breaks even if the axle was partly responsible it was my choice to run them and wouldnt expect him to pay for it.

All I am trying to say as things have to be tried and the only way to come up with better ways is to try them is the real world and I have choosen to be part of that just like Duner2

First off let me say that Jess was more than fair with my situation. He gave me a full refund and paid shipping cost's !. The axles didnt work for me and the best reason so far I guess is the offset. I never used his product thinking I could just undue the limit straps and gain a bunch more travel !. I still kept the angle to 21 degrees plus the offset difference of 4", so a total of 25 to 29 degrees total. I had never broken a rp cv, a cm cage or axle prior to this point and merely wanted Jess' axles to eliminate the cv mess !. I just got my tranny back from Transworks and having a broken and useless case I asked Eric if he thought the breakage could have been due to the halfshafts !!, He said absolutely not !.

I dont do wheelie's ( that often ) and I thought I was being good to my 2d. I also had to replace the r& p !!. So I guess I wont be the " tow " ER from now on as it seems that was the reason for my expensive fix !!. ( and 450lbs of torque)
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interesting-Jess

FYI Jess, I never towed when I had your axles on. I only ran your axles for one or two trips.

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Okay- Jess

FYI 21 degrees plus 4 inches offset is not 25-29 degrees, at most it is 23. It is an included angle.

I have towed with Jess's axles it was a Sand Limo and I towed from Test Hill to Ogilby Camp. No Problems.

Hey marc that's rediculas no wheelies during the tow? what fun is that ? Jess

I know I know, but what can I say. I didn't want to roost my friend.

Old fart: "There's only one way and that's MY WAY!!"

I guess that's why we are still using VOLKSWAGEN adapter plates on LSX motors to make them fit.....

Jess's axles were on my car for a whole season and not a single problem. My new car will be running with his axles too.

Those of you who like CV's.... by all means continue to use them!

Hmmmmmmmmm.....this is all good, but the real question is.............does Mendi read his forum? I'm very curious as to the answer to the original question

He doesnt seem to ever answer any questions directly.

Mende Has an invested reason they do not want to see these work-They have there own c/v stuff they are trying to prove ground with- I say If mende Wants a set Just call and we will finish this discussion with real likes and dislikes from Mendi them selves- So throw me your biggest head ache car horse power -big tires- lot's of whoops what ever- Lets do it -Jess

Jess,
I have been running your shafts for 5-6 years, I currently have your drivelines in my jeep (12 to 1 434ci SBC) built for stupid! :-) and in my daughters jeep, built for rocks. . I just got a sand car, and as soon as the time is right I will be switching to your half shafts.

You have always been a straight shooter, and if there is any problem with your half shafts, I know your working on a solution.

Nothing in life is guaranteed, if you want the best that meens you are on the cutting edge, when you are one the cutting edge things can go wrong.

Everyone needs to realize that you take the good with the bad. If you want to be the best on the block you need to take the risks involved.

Blake

Well put- Thanks for your input- Jess

HMMMM !, I just got through doing the " on the jack stand hot test " before putting the car in the trailer and was I surprised with the results !!. I'm not so sure even 1.5 degrees added per inch of offset is enough !!. I started with my 34" 300m axles @ 20 degrees angle and boy did I have some knocking/ clunking type noise !, as I slowly lessoned the axle angle ( while wheels spinning 4th gear hitting the T-brake on and off ) the clunk and axle plunge went away !. I ended up maxing out my limit strap adjusters to get the right angle for my car !. Not sure how the U joint axles work and how offset / compound angles affect them either !. I would highly recommend anybody or everybody jack up your cars and do the " hot test" ( or what ever you want to call it ) before you run out to the dirt or sand, IMO just spinning the wheels by hand doesnt give a true pre-test of the stress's involved or the binding that may occur whether you run cv's or u-joint axles !!....
I am also running stock GKN cv's now ( instead of the full rp's) with the CM cages, and polished stars and housing's, stock balls. I dont like the way the race prep cv, star/ balls and housing mate under load. It seems that the ball wants to ride up on the star ( weak point for load ) instead of distributing the load evenly... Did that make any sense ??? LOL.

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