Full Version: Half Shaft U-joint Axles
There's some interesting stuff there -In my mind I wonder why a c/v would even care about the Dog leg -or off-set angle - Jess
Just taking a degree measurement from a horizontal doesn't account for all the angle if they are not in a line vertically.
If you measure your angles and could somehow lock the joints in place while on the car, then remove the assembly, line the joints up vertically, and take another measurement I'm sure you would find an increase. And, the further the offset the greater it will be.
If you measure your angles and could somehow lock the joints in place while on the car, then remove the assembly, line the joints up vertically, and take another measurement I'm sure you would find an increase. And, the further the offset the greater it will be.
Its typically a 2 degree difference- Some slighlty more some slightly less it depends on the length- I measure off set by inches -then draw a triangle- Jess
QUOTE(swark @ Sep 25 2007, 10:29 PM) 
QUOTE(tsanchez @ Jul 31 2007, 12:17 PM)
QUOTE(swark @ Jul 30 2007, 08:32 PM)
First off let me say that Jess was more than fair with my situation. He gave me a full refund and paid shipping cost's !. The axles didnt work for me and the best reason so far I guess is the offset. I never used his product thinking I could just undue the limit straps and gain a bunch more travel !. I still kept the angle to 21 degrees plus the offset difference of 4", so a total of 25 to 29 degrees total. I had never broken a rp cv, a cm cage or axle prior to this point and merely wanted Jess' axles to eliminate the cv mess !. I just got my tranny back from Transworks and having a broken and useless case I asked Eric if he thought the breakage could have been due to the halfshafts !!, He said absolutely not !.
I dont do wheelie's ( that often ) and I thought I was being good to my 2d. I also had to replace the r& p !!. So I guess I wont be the " tow " ER from now on as it seems that was the reason for my expensive fix !!. ( and 450lbs of torque)
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I dont do wheelie's ( that often ) and I thought I was being good to my 2d. I also had to replace the r& p !!. So I guess I wont be the " tow " ER from now on as it seems that was the reason for my expensive fix !!. ( and 450lbs of torque)
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FYI 21 degrees plus 4 inches offset is not 25-29 degrees, at most it is 23. It is an included angle.
HMMMM !, I just got through doing the " on the jack stand hot test " before putting the car in the trailer and was I surprised with the results !!. I'm not so sure even 1.5 degrees added per inch of offset is enough !!. I started with my 34" 300m axles @ 20 degrees angle and boy did I have some knocking/ clunking type noise !, as I slowly lessoned the axle angle ( while wheels spinning 4th gear hitting the T-brake on and off ) the clunk and axle plunge went away !. I ended up maxing out my limit strap adjusters to get the right angle for my car !. Not sure how the U joint axles work and how offset / compound angles affect them either !. I would highly recommend anybody or everybody jack up your cars and do the " hot test" ( or what ever you want to call it ) before you run out to the dirt or sand, IMO just spinning the wheels by hand doesnt give a true pre-test of the stress's involved or the binding that may occur whether you run cv's or u-joint axles !!....
I am also running stock GKN cv's now ( instead of the full rp's) with the CM cages, and polished stars and housing's, stock balls. I dont like the way the race prep cv, star/ balls and housing mate under load. It seems that the ball wants to ride up on the star ( weak point for load ) instead of distributing the load evenly... Did that make any sense ??? LOL.
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Stock cv will have problems getting to 22 degrees and will make noise and bind, my cvs are clearanced and I still can only get to about 23-24 without them binding and being noisy.
QUOTE(jess@highangle @ Sep 26 2007, 12:15 PM)
Its typically a 2 degree difference- Some slighlty more some slightly less it depends on the length- I measure off set by inches -then draw a triangle- Jess
The two angle don't just get added together to get a total degrees.
Im pretty sure they do... isnt it a compound angle. For example if they are swept back five degrees plus you fully droop the car say 22 deg at full droop and then lift the front end eventually you get to the point where both the angles line up and become one... its a matter of prospective it may not seem like it but by sweeping them back all you really do is change the 12 o clock positon to more like 9,10 or 11 depending onthe angle they are swept back.
QUOTE(Speedracer550 @ Oct 1 2007, 05:24 PM)
Im pretty sure they do... isnt it a compound angle. For example if they are swept back five degrees plus you fully droop the car say 22 deg at full droop and then lift the front end eventually you get to the point where both the angles line up and become one... its a matter of prospective it may not seem like it but by sweeping them back all you really do is change the 12 o clock positon to more like 9,10 or 11 depending onthe angle they are swept back.
Exactly, the change is not a direct addition but a calculation of the two.
Its a ratio of angle -and its not quite what you think-its takes a bit of off -set to mess with things-depending on the length- A 2005 Rubicon driveline is 16" long and 1" of off set can cause vibs at Highway speeds-its about 5-degree's sideways- So its a progressive thing-Jess
Our position on U-joint axles as best as we can state it is as follows. We feel that the axles have had a very sketchy past with many failures due to vibrations and lack of plunge under high loads. We have spoken with Jesse at High Angle on this subject and he seems to be working an uphill battle with a negative image on this style axle. We must remember that if it was not for innovation we would all still be running Type 1 gearboxes in 1300lb cars with a 2180 VW motor. We do not endorse these style axles because of experiences in the past in the Off-Road racing industry. This how ever was more than 10 years ago, with current technology this type of axle may make a come back we can only wait and see. We do offer a Ball Spline axle as mentioned. These units however use special non plunge CV joints for each size 930,934, and Series 30. For those looking to get away from the CV grease or trying to save money on axles these are very unlikely to be your answer as they are significantly more expensive and are aimed more for the race car market which may eventually trickle down. On another note both Jesse and our selves agree that setup is key we have noticed many cars without limiting straps on the rear arms, as well as improper axle lengths leading to “clicking” when a car turns and the inside tire suspension extends, and that is just the beginning of many of the issues we have heard of. SETUP is CRUCIAL a few hours spent fine tuning you car will have a direct effect on how much you enjoy it.
Thanks for the response victor- Jess
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