Stop your crying, bitching, and complaining about forests being thinned or clear cut! Science (which you probably disagree with) is working on alternative solutions.

Check this out Blue Balls, and try to dispute its value.

QUOTE

The research and development of the wood-substitute resulted in a variety of complex configurations organic and chemical formulations that through a molding process, can effectively duplicate any existing wood product without cutting down a single tree or even a branch of a tree.

AND!

QUOTE

Trees, branches, bark, leaves, sawdust or wood shavings are NOT used in the creation of our wood material. A multitude of aggri-waste material can be used in the various formulas to duplicate the characters of particular woods. However, aggri-waste products are not necessary in the formulation of many of the various wood substitutes. There is an abundance of materials that currently grow and are not used for any purposes that can be used in our formulations. Some of this vegetation grows so fast that an area could be harvested, grown back and harvested again the next month. The resources are unlimited. We can control the weight and hardness to duplicate any wood WITHOUT cutting down any trees.

Here is the link: http://mypage.bluewin.ch/Materialien/Wood.htm

Try to dispute this Blue Balls!

[quote]Philippine mahogany is nearly extinct. Japan, China has no lumber. We envision ships filled with complete wood duplicates of furniture, Television cabinets, cabinet doors, entry doors, picture frames, crown molding, etc. made with our material going throughout the world. The more we produce and deliver the greater impact we will have on the preservation of the ancient forest and hopefully the preservation of the Brazilian Rain Forest that is a cleanser of our atmosphere. The overall impact of the use of our material as a substitute for wood products is unlimited in its scope and potential.


I approve! Let's stop cutting the forests NOW!

Holy COW! Blue Balls agreed with me for once. BUT... Blue Balls, have patience. Forests still need to be cut for the time being. You cannot possibly tell me you do not use products made from trees. Do you use paper? Toilet paper? Does your house have any wood in it?

Blue Balls, I still hate you with all my possible hate. But... I respect the fact that you recognize that I am RIGHT!

Lol! The brazilian rain forrests are being cut down not only for wood but for pastureland and expansion room. Those people need more room to survive else they would be living like china does, stacked on top of each other.

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Forests still need to be cut for the time being. You cannot possibly tell me you do not use products made from trees. Do you use paper? Toilet paper?

you would log our magnificent forests so you could wipe your a$$. Sounds about right.

Do you recycle, Knave?

QUOTE

you would log our magnificent forests so you could wipe your a$$.  Sounds about right.

Not all of us like to eat shiat like you, Blueboy.

I thought he meant he recycles his TP :shock:

QUOTE

QUOTE Forests still need to be cut for the time being. You cannot possibly tell me you do not use products made from trees. Do you use paper? Toilet paper?   you would log our magnificent forests so you could wipe your a$$. Sounds about right. Do you recycle, Knave?

Would you go without wipping your a$$? Figures!!!

Even if you recycle you still need new wood pulp to add to the recycled material. Do me a favor Blue and do your part in recycling and use both sides of the toilet paper before you throw it in the toilet.

New plastics are bieng made in to 2x4s and used all over as we type this. They are nice and work well with life spans way greater then wood. problem is $$$$$.
ALSO, if we dont thin forests then we will have fire dangers because we still put out mother natures fires who naturally thin the forest. Not cutting down trees is Not the answer. We need to stop putting out naturally caused forest fires then. You OK with that Blue?
Ash is mother natures fertilizer..

[img]http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/byzantium/55/trolllogo.jpg[/img]

[quote]
if we dont thin forests then we will have fire dangers
[/quote]


I'm not a forest management person. I have read that the USFS allows logging companies to go in and "thin" the old growth, fire-resistant trees. what needs to be done is to thin the small young trees.

Army, Forest Service support forest-thinning project in Kisatchie


The Associated Press
8/31/2003, 11:00 a.m. CT


FORT POLK, La. (AP) — A forest-thinning project in Kisatchie National Forest will make the area a better military training site and an improved habitat for the endangered red-cockaded woodpecker, U.S. Army and Forest Service officials said.

The project is part of the Army's proposed $271 million expansion of the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment and the Joint Readiness Training Center at Fort Polk. The center, a training ground for armored and mechanized forces, already uses part of the forest land.

The Army, the U.S. Forest Service and the Federal Aviation Administration have been preparing an environmental study on the proposed expansion. The FAA is involved because the changes will affect England Airpark in Alexandria.

A final version of the environmental study will be released in April 2004. The Army will accept public comments on the draft through Sept. 15.

Over the next ten years, the Forest Service wants to thin 21,540 acres of forest, classify it as "deleted" and remove it from further management, according to the study.

The changes are part of a 20-year authorization of the Army's special use permit to use the forest.

Forest Service spokesman Cynthia Dancak said a federal recovery plan for the woodpecker says the optimal habitat for the birds is an open space with a sparse collection of trees, known as "stands."

"The stands that are out there now have too many trees to provide for the optimal habitat for the woodpecker," Dancak said.

"The stands there now are overstocked, too thick, too closely spaced."

The proposed expansion consists of more than 20 construction projects to be completed by 2010. The Army is planning the upgrades to support its new Stryker Brigade vehicles.

The proposed projects include a battle simulation facility in south Fort Polk and a new aviation hangar at the base's airfield, both to be built in 2004.

Other construction projects include helicopter pads, a troop processing terminal and improvements to an airport runway for large military aircraft.

Possible negative effects cited in the report include loss of vegetation and wetlands from construction of roads and facilities, loss of soil and vegetative cover, possible stream sedimentation, increased damage in training areas and increased noise from new and expanded helicopter training areas.

Copyright 2003 The Associated Press.

Hey Blue Balls, make sure you read this one.

United States Forest Service Southwestern Region 3 P0 Box 110

Department of Agriculture, Carson National Forest Questa, NM 87556

Questa Ranger District Tel: 505-586-0520, 505-758-6230,FAX 505-586-0521

File Code: 1950/5150/2360

Date: ApriI 25, 2001

Questa and Lama

Wildland Urban Interface Project

Dear Stakeholder:

Just a few short years ago, the Hondo Fire, and more recently the Cerro Grande Fire in Los Alamos, brought home to each of us the devastating affects uncontrolled wildfire can have on our lives and our communities. The scope and intensity of the wild fires throughout the west this past season has emphasized the need for us to aggressively plan and implement treatment actions and strategies within our wildland urban interface (WUI) zones. This letter is to inform you of and request any comments or concerns you may have regarding a wildland urban interface project that is being planned for the National Forest lands from north of Lama to south of Questa.. The planning area for the Questa/Lama WIJI is approximately 5000 acres in size. The total linear distance proposed for fuelbréak treatments is approximately 12.5 miles. The area proposed for general thinning treatment within this planning area is approximately 1100 acres.

The intended purpose for this project is to reduce the risk of a wind driven crown fire moving from National Forest into the communities of Questa and Lama, or from those communities to National Forest lands. This risk can be reduced, although by no means eliminated, through vegetative treatments that would make it more difficult for a fire to leap into the tree crowns and’or allow a crown fire to drop back to the ground, thus giving fire fighting personnel an opportunity to defend your homes and community.

The project area involves certain National Forest lands north of Lama to the southern boundaiy of Questa as shown on the attached map. The areas proposed for treatment have been separated into two types of treatments. The distinct areas are separated to facilitate describing the treatment actions proposed and subsequent purpose for these different areas as they relate to this WUI project.

The first area to describe are fuelbreaks, in some cases located adjacent to the communities of Questa and Lama. These areas are of particular importance as they serve as the immediate buffer between the National Forest and the private lands. Treating the vegetation in these areas can influence the behavior of a fire moving from the National Forest towards the private land, or from the private land to the National Forest and adjacent neighbors. In addition, fuelbreaks are displayed on the attached map along existing roads, the gas pipeline right~oft way, and existing natural or manmade openings in the forest. Where possible, the fuelbreaks adjacent to private lands and along roads have been interconnected to form continuous fuelbreaks.

Specifically, we are proposing to thin the trees in these fuelbreak areas to 30 to 50 foot spacing between tree crowns, with treatment occurring at widths of 50450 feet. The final spacing between individual trees and the width of the fttelbreak actually treated on the National Forest along our shared boundary will depend on the current vegetative conditions, slope steepness, and accessibility to any given area. Thinning will be achieved through personal use and forest products sales (such as firewood, vigas, wildlings) and precommercial thinning. The vast majority, approximately 99% of all trees to be thinned are small, that is between 2 feet tall to 10 inches in diameter. A few occasional trees larger than 10 inches in diameter may be cut to create a more effective fuelbreak. The wood that is not collected for firewood or other forest products will be thinned and piled, and then the piles burned by Questa Ranger District fire personnel during the winter months.

The second area or treatment type to describe is general thinning and fuels reduction between the communities of Questa and Lama. This would include primarily thinning from below to reduce fuel ladders that permit ground fires to climb into the crowns of trees. Thinning will also eliminate continuous interconnected tree crowns reducing crown fire risk. In the areas of general thinning we are proposing tree crown spacing of 20 to 40 feet, retaining the largest, healthiest, and most fire resistant tree species when possible. Again, the vast majority, approximately 99% of all trees to be thinned are small, that is between 2 feet tall to 10 inches in diameter. The wood that is not collected for firewood or other forest products will be precommercial thinned, then lopped and scattered, or piled and burned by Questa Ranger District fire personnel during the winter months.

The primary objectives for our proposed treatment actions are:

• Reduce ladder fuels and interconnected tree crowns, thereby decreasing crown fire risk.

• Improve existing lines of defense (i.e. roads, gas lines, revegetated areas, etc.).

• Increase the amount of time available for initial attack activities.

• Slow down the rate of fire spread.

• Connect treated areas to existing natural features.

• Treat areas tint have the highest incidence of man-caused fires (i.e. next to roads).

• Create fuelbreaks, firefighting lines of defense, providing additional protection and safety to private property, the residents, firefighting personnel and the forest.

Secondary benefits include:

• Provide forest products to local communities.

• Increase the abundance and diversity of native grasses, forbs, and shrubs.

• Improve wildlife habitat.

• Enhance watershed condition, reducing soil movement and sedimentation.



Because of the existing road network and other resource considerations (such as steep slopes) found in this area, new roads will not be constructed in conjunction with the proposed urban interface treatment actions. Also, broadcast prescribed fires will not be considered at this time due to the lack of existing control features in the area and community concerns.

We would appreciate your sharing with us any issues, concerns, or opportunities you would like us to consider during the environmental assessment process for this proposed wildland urban interface action. We will be holding a public meeting at the Village of Questa Council Chambers on May 23, 2001, starting at 7:00pm, to discuss the Questa/Lama WUI proposal, as well as explain and answer any questions you may have on our overall wildland urban interface program in the Lama, Questa, and Red River areas. If you cannot make the May 2jrd meeting, we would ask that you submit any written comments by May 30, 2001 so they can be considered at the start of our environmental analysis process. You can also call in your comments to District Fire Management Officer Paul Mondragon or me at 585-0520 or 758-6230. We look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

RON THIBEDEAU

District Ranger

WOW.. Now lets dicsuss the spruce in Alaska.. The spruce beetle does not attack trees less then 6" in diameter in the trunk. That leaves hundreds of thousands of acres of DEAD Trees. The small ones cannot get through the dead ones and thus we are out own enemy and killing off an entire region of trees.
Why dont we log the dead trees. Talk to blue on that one. The logging companies and local govet ask to be able to log the dead trees, but the feds who have NEVER enve seen it say know cause the activists are running the show.
Lightning used to take care of the dead trees and the outbreaks of the beetle, but now we put the fires out before they can spread and that allows the beatle population to explode..
Now what.. :? With much of the forest dead throughout the Kenai Peninsula, the next strike of lightning will burn the entire Peninsula and all that is on it.

Those are all dead trees!
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/fidls/sp...prucebeetle.htm
Proud Blue?

oh wait.. Blue and friends need to SAVE the beetle from burning..
These ECO-TERRORISTS preven mother nature from taking care of her self as well.
When will you people stop? Do you really care? at all? Burning vehicle and homes is the answer? Throwing buckets of fecise (spelling) is gonna help? Green Peace parking boats in front of ships really helps?
I wonder about the mentality of these people..

QUOTE

When will you people stop? Do you really care? at all? Burning vehicle and homes is the answer? Throwing buckets of fecise (spelling) is gonna help? Green Peace parking boats in front of ships really helps?   I wonder about the mentality of these people..

You know, for a group that destroys habitat of rare plants and animals just for your recreational thrills, you seem really well informed on the minutia of the logging controversy.

Blue ribbon Coalition is a group that is funded by the extraction industry (mining and logging operations mainly) and fronted by the recreation industry. "More access for recreation" "back country trails" are their slogans. what they really do is open the back country up to the extraction industries so they won't be drilling or logging in pristine areas--it's already been torn up by motorized vehicles! So your defense of the logging industry makes sense to me.

However, if you look between the lines, search a little harder, use your powers of rational thought and suspicion (like you do when you suspect the SC and CBD of being in the activist world for profit) and start to wonder why clear cuts are still threatening the health of our forests in spite of proof and laws protecting these treasures.

The bottom line is--Old growth forests take hundreds of years to grow and they are a vital part of man's eco-system. WHAT YA GONNA DO WHEN THEY'RE ALL CUT DOWN?

Have a fire!!! Roast a few marshmellows! You support the cutting down of these trees everyday I bet and you dont even know it! :roll:


I know your not refering to us or to Glamis.
1. your proof that the "weed" was being kilt by us off roaders is FASLE.
2. your proof of a turtle was being kilt by us off roaders is FALSE.
3. your proof of a beetle was being kilt by us off roaders is FALSE.

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You know, for a group that destroys habitat of rare plants and animals just for your recreational thrills, you seem really well informed on the minutia of the logging controversy.

Bluesky, were you abused or molested as a child? :?

QUOTE

QUOTE When will you people stop? Do you really care? at all? Burning vehicle and homes is the answer? Throwing buckets of fecise (spelling) is gonna help? Green Peace parking boats in front of ships really helps?   I wonder about the mentality of these people..

I got a question for you Blu...

For people that are supposed to give a damn, and for people who most would think are nice and normal.....Your kind sure is pretty effed up...

Can you reply to that?

[quote]
You know, for a group that destroys habitat of rare plants and animals just for your recreational thrills

keep up the good work bs!

the public is wising up to the fact that "environmentalist" = lying bastard

Why even try to have a conversation with this **** ****. His responces are juvenile at best.

Please do not feed the Blutroll!

[img]http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/byzantium/55/trolllogo.jpg[/img]

**** them out now before it is too late! Not only will the lose the trees, put many species of animals, unreplaceable habitat, and property worth BILLIONS of dollars! This farce of saving the old growth is a joke! What are we going to save them for? KINDLING? :roll:

C'mon Dez.. we all know that Pine tree out front will live for 300 years so my great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great Grand kids can enjoy its shade. :roll: BA....
Hey, after so long they will petrify and we can use them as gravel on the trails we build to get around in the tropical rain forests..

[quote]



Blue ribbon Coalition is a group that is funded by the extraction industry (mining and logging operations mainly) and fronted by the recreation industry. [/quote]

I help fund the blue ribbon coalition. So do many of my friends. Some thanks is due to the extraction industry then for helping us in our fight. :ninja:

[quote]C'mon Dez.. we all know that Pine tree out front will live for 300 years so my great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great Grand kids can enjoy its shade. :roll: BA....
Hey, after so long they will petrify and we can use them as gravel on the trails we build to get around in the tropical rain forests.. [/quote]

DOH! :roll2: What was I thinking? You think that 37 generations from now the "tree huggers" will be protesting the petrified pines being turned into gravel? :wink: :cheese:

Save the Rocks Save the Rocks!!!

Save them for what?

damn, another BLU bites the dust, ONCE AGAIN, WE PAN RIGHT TO FIND BLUSKY STUCK WITH HIS FOOT JAMMED DEEP INTO HIS MOUTH, BECAUSE once again, HE DIDN'T STOP, LOOK OR READ BEFORE HE RESPONDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BLU, YOU ARE DEFINATELY A TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mrgreen: