Why do we have to pay full price for a second vehicle pass when the vendors can have up to 3 vehicles. I understand they will be paying more in terms of vending fees, but if I drive out on thursday and my wife drives out after picking up the kids from school on friday why do I pay double when both vehicle are for the same family.
It is not my intention to upset the vendors with this question.
Full Version: 2nd vehicle question.
Because the gestasapo says so! :x
It won't upset the vendors and it's a very valid question.
We've asked about the second vehicle issue many times and have received a bunch of different answers. One of those answers came from the dunes manager and was something about how the second vehicle is using up resources and this is a cost recovery fee to recoup the costs of those used up resources so the figures in the plan did not allow for a free or reduced second vehicle. As if a second vehicle would take up enough room to displace another visitor. That made absolutely no sense Glamis-wise and was shot down in front of the dunes manager's manager and above.
There are other public land recreation areas that have successful second vehicle systems in place, but rather than rely on those the BLM chose to use the example of the system used in our forests which has been a disaster since the beginning.
One of the times the question was asked it got the answer that there just isn't enough time this season to implement a second pass system, but that they're looking for it for next season.
At least that's closer to what we want but still not good enough.
Perhaps if we'd been able to slow down the implementation of this bad plan for just a little while we could have made some of these changes. DUNERS had the powers that be on the verge of doing just that, but, well, you know the rest of the story.
All we can do now is keep on them and if we make it very clear the public wants a second pass system in place this season, perhaps we'll get what we want sooner than next season.
Vicki
We've asked about the second vehicle issue many times and have received a bunch of different answers. One of those answers came from the dunes manager and was something about how the second vehicle is using up resources and this is a cost recovery fee to recoup the costs of those used up resources so the figures in the plan did not allow for a free or reduced second vehicle. As if a second vehicle would take up enough room to displace another visitor. That made absolutely no sense Glamis-wise and was shot down in front of the dunes manager's manager and above.
There are other public land recreation areas that have successful second vehicle systems in place, but rather than rely on those the BLM chose to use the example of the system used in our forests which has been a disaster since the beginning.
One of the times the question was asked it got the answer that there just isn't enough time this season to implement a second pass system, but that they're looking for it for next season.
At least that's closer to what we want but still not good enough.
Perhaps if we'd been able to slow down the implementation of this bad plan for just a little while we could have made some of these changes. DUNERS had the powers that be on the verge of doing just that, but, well, you know the rest of the story.
All we can do now is keep on them and if we make it very clear the public wants a second pass system in place this season, perhaps we'll get what we want sooner than next season.
Vicki
Thanks to the TRT >:<
I will only be able to make 3 trips this season holloween and thanksgiving and one in between because 1st week in Dec I leave for 8 months overseas. This is why i had the question. I have to spend more for the 3 trips than i would probable spend for the season. I made a promise to my kids and we will be at the dunes. i hope to see some of you there. we will be at gorden's well.
That sucks dude :evil: but I know all about that. I had just finished building my quad and rode it once before I left last Oct...It was June before I got back. I leave December 2004 for 6 month or so. The Navy is gonna give us Marines a boat ride. I wonder if it will be a Carnival Cruise? 
its part of the job. but we in the navy always did like to take some trees out to sea with us. just kidding be careful and i see ya in the dunes.
just kidding be careful and i see ya in the dunes.
The vendor situation is a very different situation.
Demo Fee is for the "USE" of Glamis generally defined as "for recreation"...
By this definition the vendors do not come under the "Demo Fee" law.
Like tow trucks who should not have to have a "Demo Fee" pass because they are not "recreating" at Glamis.
I'm not sure how the BLM gets away with limiting the vendors to 3 vehicles, though. It would seem to me that they have a limited sized vendor area and if they want to shove more then 3 vehicles into that area then what's it to the BLM?
If this is not the case then I'd like to hear about it.
Demo Fee is for the "USE" of Glamis generally defined as "for recreation"...
By this definition the vendors do not come under the "Demo Fee" law.
Like tow trucks who should not have to have a "Demo Fee" pass because they are not "recreating" at Glamis.
I'm not sure how the BLM gets away with limiting the vendors to 3 vehicles, though. It would seem to me that they have a limited sized vendor area and if they want to shove more then 3 vehicles into that area then what's it to the BLM?
If this is not the case then I'd like to hear about it.
| QUOTE |
| I'm not sure how the BLM gets away with limiting the vendors to 3 vehicles, though. It would seem to me that they have a limited sized vendor area and if they want to shove more then 3 vehicles into that area then what's it to the BLM? |
That's exactly what we asked and guess what...
The 3 vehicle limit was removed 8)
As for the other businesses like tow trucks and water trucks... I believe the gray area there is not in length of time spent, but instead whether they wander the roads looking for business versus being called upon by a specific user. For instance let's say we take our 2-week vacation at Glamis so we'll obviously need to empty our tanks and fill our tanks. In the past the BLM has tried to chase some of the water trucks and septic trucks away because they didn't have the "proper paperwork" to "vend" at Glamis, even if they were ordered by a dune user.
Do they ask the same thing of the tow truck driver that was sent out by AAA? How about the ambulance racing down Gecko Road to pick up an injured person? Are these not contract "vendors" also?
Seems to me it all comes down to the same thing... we need to keep an eye on everything they are doing to make sure they are doing it right.
Vicki
I do not believe that a tow truck is "recreating" at Glamis and do not understand how they could be required to purchass a "Demo Fee" pass...
And someone who is supplying a service at the behest of someone else while at Glamis is not necessisairily a vendor. The burden of proof would have to be on the BLM.
(It is not REQUIRED to have a pass to drive around at Glamis on the public roads!!!) You can drive around all day and all night if you wish. You could even argue that driving along sand highway or other dune areas does not require a pass, though you would have to be careful to not be "recreating"... For instance... your 16year old is missing and you are looking for his vehicle.
Here are some interesting court cases...
http://www.freeourforests.org/adpass.htm#legal
Two different judges have ruled two different ways... (the second one ignoring the first) concerning the ticketing of empty vehicles.
The first judge says that the burden of proof is on the officer (as it should be) to witness the "recreating" and therefore he cannot ticket an unoccupied vehicle.
To date, according to the above webpage, there has never been a fine of over $75.
Many other interesting things on that page.
And someone who is supplying a service at the behest of someone else while at Glamis is not necessisairily a vendor. The burden of proof would have to be on the BLM.
(It is not REQUIRED to have a pass to drive around at Glamis on the public roads!!!) You can drive around all day and all night if you wish. You could even argue that driving along sand highway or other dune areas does not require a pass, though you would have to be careful to not be "recreating"... For instance... your 16year old is missing and you are looking for his vehicle.
Here are some interesting court cases...
http://www.freeourforests.org/adpass.htm#legal
Two different judges have ruled two different ways... (the second one ignoring the first) concerning the ticketing of empty vehicles.
The first judge says that the burden of proof is on the officer (as it should be) to witness the "recreating" and therefore he cannot ticket an unoccupied vehicle.
To date, according to the above webpage, there has never been a fine of over $75.
Many other interesting things on that page.
I work with a guy who got selected for the TRT board. I will ask him about the second vehicle pass. By the way he is against how the fees were tripled on us and were is the green and red sticker money going.
Just so everyone knows, second vehicle is a valid concern and I plan on asking about it.
Second Vehicle Pass IS a good concern... but vaugly related to that is the fact that there are no "DAY USE" passes...
In the past people didn't seem to mind paying $10 for a week pass when they were only staying one day... But now the week pass is $25... that's a bit steep for a single day, or even for a 2 or 3 day weekend.
In the past people didn't seem to mind paying $10 for a week pass when they were only staying one day... But now the week pass is $25... that's a bit steep for a single day, or even for a 2 or 3 day weekend.
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