Was watching the OHV Safety Video..nice job! And after the weekend in Glamis, I got to thinking about this again.


The rules state the following: All vehicles shall be equipped with a whip mast and a 6x12 inch red/orange flag. Flags may be of pennant, triangle, square, or rectangular shape. Masts must be securely mounted on the vehicle and extend 8 feet from the ground to the mast tip. Safety flags must be attached within 10 inches of the tip of the whip mast with club or other flags mounted below safety flag or on another whip.

That being said...those of us who like personal flags or the Old Glory instead are subject to this:

BLM supplementary rules reestablished under authority of 43 CFR 8365.1-6. Violations of the rules are punishable by a fine not to exceed $1,000 and/or imprisonment not to exceed 12 months (43 CFR 8360.0-7). Also, all OHVs must be operated in accordance with State laws and regulations relating to use, registration, operation, and inspection of OHVs(43 CFR 8341.1{d}).


Kinda of makes you think that this could be a huge cash cow for the state.

hmmmmm...

I think the bigger the flag the bigger the f*g

With the exception of the Stars and Stripes... a 3'x5' is just fine in that case.

As for the laws... how many people have received tickets for running a black pirate flag? I know that plenty of people violate this law... but is this something where the rangers are looking the other way (which I would sincerely hope they would in the case of the U.S. Flag)? In the spirit of the law, this was created for visibility, any flag other than a sand colored flag (or black at night) should be very visible, and one shouldn't be cited assuming the flag's visibility is within reason.

Good post, and I do agree with you, however some folks where cited for this very matter. In late 05' and early 06' some leo's where citing for this. Not many, but the sillyness was they had giant flags, many with the required colors, correct heights, and even the shapes. But by the letter of the law, technically illegal. And to add insult to injury the very leos citing some of these folks were driving vehicles off highway, with no flag. Silly but true. It was a very hot topic on the board and in the sand, so hot in fact the leos now (mostly) have flags on all of there vehilces and many buggy owners ran a lil flag above their biggie, some still do to be extra safe, so to speak. FYI

If an LEO didn't have a flag on his vehicle while writting me up I would ask for a supervisor to come out and file a citizens arrest with him and ask that the officer be cited as well.

Its a Good Law.

The Red/Orange color is to set a Safety Standard.

Its a universal symbol of caution.

Folks can put whatever they want under it.

Will be nice to see it enforced.

:so i guess your going to change your pink flag now.

Pink I thought

IMO as long a s flag can be seen is good for me but that aint the case.It does give a ranger a reason to stop you though.

I just run the red/orange one at the top then run the 3x5 under that one.It is following the law technically

As with most standards of this type, it's idiotic.
The purpose is to be visible. and I'm afraid that a tiny red pennant on top of your 3'x5' American flag for compliance is just plain silly.

So do you think that from this statement "Masts must be securely mounted on the vehicle and extend 8 feet from the ground to the mast tip."

That this is a problem? Whip strapped to chest protector?

When he takes that unexpected fall and impales himself on his own flag I'm sure he will spend the couple of dollars or even rig up his own mount.

legal...

What makes this more risky then one on the frame near the seat mount.

I guess if you drove the whip straight into the ground it could force the whip to slid down the back of the chest protector and jab him in the butt.

Hey Bugsy

I cant tell how that whip is mounted

What if they started ticketing everyone driving over the speed limit on the highways?
What if.....

What Ever !!!!

One of the most simplest easy to follow rules in the dunes.

And folks will bitch, moan, complain and just shy of blame a president for some whacky conspiracy....

Before buying a $8-10 piece of safety equipment.

Buncha 's

This one simple statement hits the mark really well. What so many people forget is that there is a big difference between the letter of the law and the intent of the law. And there are many of us who feel the letter of the law is being used against the community instead of the intent of the law being used to help us.

I have a very personal example I can relate...

Certain asshats at Comp Hill (or Olds now) like to dig trenches, fill them with gas and light them on fire.

It has been a major problem at Glamis for far too long now.

So a few years ago the BLM came up with a "supplemental rule" against the use of an accellerant on fires at Glamis to help them control this problem.

Alas, there are still trenches filled with gasoline being lit on fire at Olds.

But... sure enough, a Sheriff came into camp one night, ticket book in hand, attitude amped to the max, yelling at our teen-age son demanding identification and saying that he was going to write a citation because there was a gas can in the vicinity of the campfire (where he was standing all alone).

The intent of that law was (stop me if you've heard this) to "give law enforcement officials an important tool in the fight to curb the 'bad element' that is threatening Glamis." And yet, this shining example of the Imperial County Sheriff's office was not following the intent, instead he was using the letter of the law to bully a teenager standing alone at a fire.

So when people in our community rebel against this law or that law, when some in our community become scofflaws and complain about being regulated to the hilt, please try to consider that there are probably some very valid reasons for the cynicism that sadly leaks onto even the most noble of causes, rider safety.

VickiW

couple years ago at a off road expo at costa mesa i asked a ranger there about the dirtbike whips and mounting.He told me about the chest protector mounting and said it was better visibility overall and he didnt cite for ones who mounted their whips on it but others might and can his opinon was better to be seen.I asked him about the normal swingarm mounts we both thought they were useles since when underway the whip is below headlevel but he said there was nothing he could do about it as far as citations go cause when bike was still,whip was mounted onto bike and whip was high enough.

So does anyone else think that this is dangerous? I'm mean really never thought about it.

What do you think?

Jeff

Jeff every ranger is going to have their different thoughts about the whip on the chest protector. Imo, I definitly think that the whip on the chest protector is better then on the swingarm. if anyone has ever watched a dirtbike moving more then 1st gear the whip is below the riders head most of the time. so then what use would it be to have if its below the rider. plus as a rider's safety trying to get your leg around the bike the whip is in the way. hard to bail off if needed. I see more and more two wheel riders use the excuse their whip fell off. (and have no mount) didnt say they tied it to their chest. protectors. at leas they are thinking of their safety wearing the whips.

Well, what Charger says is pretty much the same issue I bring up.

Once you lay down a "standard", the typical bureaucrat is stuck with it because they cannot do anything else. The "law" doesn't care that the flag can be seen or not, only that it "fits the standard".

When laws are enforced in this manor people tend to be a bit cynical about such things.
I fly my flag in a manor that I consider to be safe for my own and other's safety. I could really care less whether it fits "the standard" or not because A) the standard is idiotic and B) it doesn't really care about safety, only compliance, and C) If I adhered to this standard and the cop wanted to ticket me, he'd find something else. It's impossible to be completely compliant. It'll never happen.

Hey, I'm not saying that there should be some kind of mass rebellion against the "flag rule". I'm just saying that I'm flying my flag in my way.

I would think after 1 ride in the dunes getting beat in the head with a whip that the chest protector idea wasn't the best idea

Last I checked the American Flag goes above all other flags or pennants

My son (17) runs his flag off his chest protector. He's had two separate comments from LEO's; A) all is ok, its visible and B) it does not comply with the existing rules and regulations, thus it's a citable offense. That said, LEO No. 2 added that he wouldn't even think about stopping him unless he was doing something else. As for the possibility of impalement, if you run the end of the flag lower on the back on the outside of the chest protector, the end will not be able to "stick" you (unless you bend over backwards). Also, with the shorter whip length, it doesn't bend and stays well above the head of the rider. I believe that this is better than the alternative of mounting either on the fender or axel where it bends below the rider. I've seen (or not seen) too many bikers on sand highway with their flags almost bending straigh back.

And there are many of us who feel the letter of the law is being used against the community instead of the intent of the law being used to help us.



And with so little of that element around anymore, the easy targets are us, the sheep. Keep those stats up, keep the budget justified. And keep the folks writting the checks, minds off the closures and what "hasn't been accomplished"


"press hard three copies"









And keep those "blinders" up, easy prey. Safe, simple and EOS.




Im sure it feels better to put a kid in a wheel chair for no pass, than dealing with a bunch of drunk flat-billers, or worse, raider fans!

Thanks for your response!

I didn't even want to respond to the comment about getting beat in the head. Wasn't worth the effort.

It wont hit if you mount it properly. Chest protectors have a kinda V shape to the design. so when you strap on the whip it puts it away from the head.

As for doing something stupid to draw attention from the LEO's. That won't happen I taught my boys better then that.

We will continue to follow the intent of the law and be safer then follow the sheep with the letter of the law. Oh by the way I have 2 flick whip mount and axle mounts standing by in case it becomes an issue.

Jeff

I think the main thing is to make sure you have a whip/any color besides brown, and to not to dumb things.

I run the AZ state flag on the banshee and a blue flag on the 450. Never had any problems in my entire life of duning (20 years)

Many of the LEOs run yellow flags in Dumont. So I guess if you were to get bothered by them it would be the whole do as I say not as I do crap. If I were running say a black flag or anyother color flag for that matter and was issued a citation for it I would immediately request a citizens arrest for every single LEO that didn't have a red or orange flag. The only reason an officer has a reason to cite someone for not following the letter of the law and not for the spirit of the law is if they were in a bad mood and felt like being an a&&hole which by the letter of the law is against the law. Their mood or personal feelings are to in no way be a reason for a citation, the reason for a citation is to be only for the protection and safety of the public.

I'm not an expert, just thinking out loud.

I support the color specific flag rule because;.

This will help riders differentiate between a MOVING ATV vs a parked Toy Hauler or other parked vehicle.

Just a thought.

I can kinda see your point, but you don't often see motorhomes out there, cresting a dune,...and in the flat's it's pretty easy to spot non-moving motorhomes with or without a flag.

the law is whatever the leo wants it to be when he pull you over ticket book in hand. BLM wants them to write as many revenue generating tickets for whatever they can come up with. It's all a crap shoot out there nowadays.

I ride with my flag mounted to my chest protector because it is way more visable. I do however have a mount on my swingarm so in the case I get stoped I can change it. When I fall odds are I'll be standing before my bike so that is that much sooner my flag will be in the air. Now is ther any reasn I can't run two flags? One on me and one on my bike.

You think we got it tough - went to Silver Lake MI last summer, they require a 10 foot whip mounted on the FRONT of the vehicle and they noise test all vehicles 102 DB max. Plus there is a voucher lottery for entrance to the area (forget it on weekends) and get this ONE WAY TRAFFIC on the dunes thats right you have to keep going in the same direction as everyone else !!!

Its like a carnival ride or Disney World Sand Car Goofy Ride.

Awful deal.

Wow...that sucks.

10ft. mast at the front of the vehicle makes sense to me... decibel level...maybe, but the one way traffic deal really sucks. Unfortunately, if we don't clean up our act in Glamis, we will see the same thing eventually.