I don't understand what is happening to our sport, it's out of control. People are getting way out of control, with the trash and controling themselves; controling their fast cars. There are way too many fast cars, fast cars with people that don't know how to drive and by all means don't have the common sense & respect to drive them. Why do you need a high horse power car any way? you can only use so much power in the dunes, please slow down. We are on the verge of loosing Glamis, if we don't do something to get it under control it will be gone....and soon. If you don't think this will happen, then just watch. There have already been too many lives lost this season alone, I am not saying they have been lost for any other reason other than a tragic accident. I deeply feel for those families, my heart hurts for the ones left behind, I am sorry for your lose. It is time, time for all of us to do our part to help. I think everyone can do their part to lessing these accidents. Please be carefull and slow down, watch out for others, the ones that may not have the experence that you have, the ones that are not paying attention, so respect others as well as youself. And please do your part to pick up the trash, the trash of yourself and the ones that don't respect Glamis- you suck. Thank you for your ongoing support, support of our sport/our life style. Because it really is more than a sport; it truly is a life style, a life we all love and need. Thank you for listing/reading!!!!!

I hear you my friend.

Allot of emotion myself on this subject.

But there are two arguments to this tale....More Laws / Less Laws.

Well, I always thought...hmm more laws might help.
Naw - The current ones don't even get inforced.

There are even plaenty of good groups like Dune Safe, the ASA and others that promote safety.
They have great messages. But not enough effect.

Here is what is gonna change the current growing issue that WILL KILL this sport.

GET INVOLVED.

BE ACTIVE.

APPROACH THOSE WHO NEED TO BE APPROACHED.

We as a community need to start walking up to those that break whatever rule
and get the word out. I'm not talking about confrontation.

I mean communication.

Walk up to the people littering and hand them a Trashbag.
Tell them how Glamis is on the verge of Total Closure as you help them pick up their trash.

Drive up to the guy who just flew 70MPH down the drags on 10ft from the sideline.
Ask him if he could stay a little more to the center for the safety of all.
Hell, feed his ego a little and tell him what a nice, fast rail he has.
Ask him if he's ever taken that bad boy up China Wall. (He may be a novice and never been to anything more than the drags). Hell....offer to show it to him.

Basic message is this.

We need to put ourselfs in front of the folks doing what they should not be doing.
Either they don't know - So we educate them.
Perhaps they don't care - So we tell them why they should care (Closure, Accidents and such).


I'll heed my own words.
When I'm out...I'll do as I say vs. posting about it and having not done anything about it.







I hope the post translates the message i'm trying to make.
I'm still turkey-drunk.

Funny, the Macs are at our house visiting for the holiday, and we were just talking about this last night...

Mac says to me "you know you are waaaay more conservative with your RZR than I ever thought you be"....

And I said "I know!! I'll be honest... I am way more conservative than I thought I would be too... I'm such a go big or go home kind of person."

Then I thought for a minute and said... "you know what... I'll be honest... I'm scared out of my mind out there this year... its gotten way out of control, and I fear for my life just 20ft out of camp, there have been numerous deaths already this year and the season just started!! I have almost been hit a few times, and have gotten way to close for comfort out there... I don't like close calls... I don't like the feeling of being scared"...

Mrs. Mac says "You know what... we need to start listening more to our gut instincts... if you have a bad feeling, sorry for the drive way out to Glamis, but I'm gonna sit this ride out"...


You know people... life is a trip... I've been coming to glamis for about 7yrs now... and its revolutionized since then, and not in a good way... there use to be 3 or 4 vendors... there use to be wide open areas... you use to have football fields between camps... now??? Just packed every weekend, and sooooo many newbies with no experience just driving blind like when you stomp on an ant hill!!!

You are right on all acounts... I am doing my part about getting the word out. I even purchased the banner from the ASA about littering, even the 15 mph speed limit sign I put up out from camp, someone even ran it over one time. I tell people about picking up there trash, i just wish i could catch more of them. I have approched people and talk to them about speeding near camps and to close to people. The purpose of this thread is to get others to help do their part as well. I am really glad to hear buddy, that your are helping do your part thats awesome, its nice to know there is someone else. Thanks Phillip

I see what you guys see, and I agree.... I believe that the answer lies where we all do not want to go. I believe that the dunes need to be closed down for all holiday weekends. I know that by saying this I will get verbally beat up but this is when the most of the problem occurs. I do not go on holiday weekends for two reasons, this is the time when you or one of your loved ones will be killed by no doing of your own, also this is the time when you least enjoy yourself. We all do the same thing, we go on a holiday weekend and sit in our camps bitching about all the idiots, from the guy who parked his rig on top of your camp to the guy who just drove two feet from your front door doing 90. I have reluctantly removed myself from this freak show of drunks and the people who go to glamis to party. I believe by getting rid of these holiday weekends we will see a departure of the a-holes. These people do not go to the dunes for the sand but just another place to get drunk and stupid. I have met many dune lovers and they do not leave trash behind, not because of any laws but they want to come back next weekend and the weekend after.......... If you want the dunes to stay open forever, push for all the holiday weekends to be closed. And say goodbye to partiers, most of the high horsepower showoffs, drunk naked strippers, excessive drug use, excessive drinking, drunk driving, most of the fatalities, most of the trash, and say hello to families, good times, less trash, kids that live through the weekend, less bitching around the camp fire, and the place that we all remember it can be....... Sacrifice leads us all to success, denial leads us nowhere.......

I gotta say, that most of these accidents have not occured on the Holiday weekends... Every weekend out there is a risk... and there are all those mentioned drunks, drug users, strippers & partiers....

Its all over, every weekend... I hope they don't close the dunes... I would just be bummed!! I think the rage will die out... I think the torch can only stay lit for so long, when all the peoples "free financing" comes due & payable, or thier homes have no more quity... etc...

I just hope it finds its calm again... I miss the days of when I couldn't sleep cause of the trains... not the dumb guys racing around camp at 4am!!! Its one thing to be up and partying till 4am... but just don't touch your toys... I don't see why that's so hard for people!!

I can't really state for sure when all the accidents occur but I was in Glamis last weekend(15th-18th) it was great. Nobody rode through my camp, the night was quiet, and I did not see the flight for life chopper. I am at home this weekend and wish I could go to Glamis but I can't because I won't die for this sport. I don't want to get run over by a drunk or go to my friends and family's funeral. Most of the people I know that go to the dunes for the dunes feel this way, so if I can not go to the dunes on the holiday weekends I do not want the a-holes allowed to go either. I know that is selfish but it is the way I feel.......

For it is true that there are more people out on Holidays, due to the fact that you get more time there, ie extra days in the dunes = more riding time. We all go when we can, when we have the time off, when the kids are out of school. More people will increase the chances of something happening to you, however it can still happen on regular week ends as well, i have seen it. I have been out there the last two holidays Vets and the one in november. Those were both nice it was crowed but all in all it was very mellow. quiet at night and so on. On major holidays like T-day its way out of control. I think the anawer lays in education, getting the word out, to slow down, be careful, watch the kids & pick up the trash. We have got to start somewhere it might as well be that (education) Do you know you can call the Rangers out for people racing around camp in the middle of the night, you can call them for loud music, you can call them for people racing to close to camp, do you also know you can report people that litter. Don't just sit around camp bitching, either go ask them to stop what they are doing (be nice about it) or call the Rangers its their job.

WELL SAID. drIVE SAFE AND RESECT ALL around you

This is nothing new; Ive been going to Glamis and Havasu since the 70's. There were a few years when Havasu was just so out of control that I was afraid to go out on the big weekends, now they limit the ammount of boats at a few of the launchramps and have"Johnny-Law" every where on the big weekends. I feel much safer and believe that Glamis needs to follow suit, more law inforcement that actually inforces the law!
Tim

I AGREE enforcement would go a long way heck even a ranger sitting by the compound fenceline would have a field day writing up speeders....

Yikes. Anytime anyone mentions limiting the number of users of any public area in the name of "security" I get nervous.

Capacity limits, like systematically closing down one or all of the gathering spots every weekend night, will certainly curb the problem... but only because it's a numbers game at that point. The crime rate drops when the population drops.

Creating a curfew that forced people into their homes at dusk every night would no doubt make a dent in the crime rate of any city. But is limiting the movements of free citizens really the way we want to go?

As for law enforcement, I don't personally believe that more is better. On the holiday weekends Glamis does have more law enforcement, a substantial number of which are untrained and incapable of discerning "good" duners from "bad" duners. Sadly, the fact is, in the eyes of law enforcement personnel there is an "us" and a "them" and guess what... the duners aren't ever going to be an "us" in their eyes, no matter which flags we fly or what hats we wear. We are, each and every one, the bad guys. Make no mistake about that.

Asking for more law enforcement will not protect the good guys against the bad guys. Instead, it will result in exactly the trend that's being seen already...

Good duners are leaving, turning their backs in disgust and leaving Glamis to the increasing number of law enforcement officers, decreasing number of true Glamis lovers, and exploding numbers of thieves, muggers and trashers of Glamis. And law enforcement revels in this turn because to them, all they see is decreasing numbers and that means easier control.

What we should hope for is better law enforcement and managing the area to include embracing all forms of recreation and all types of visitors, including the ones on 2, 3, and 4 wheels. Right now that is no where near what we have and Glamis devotees are on the losing end of all of it.

VickiW

I agree with you and I am sure alot more on here do, we need more Law enforcement at all times of the day and night, however Law enforcement is not going to protect people out in the dunes and places LEOs don't patrol, there is no possible way they can be every where all the time. They can't protect you if someone is not paying attention and hits you from the side. Or someone makes a turn with out looking and you hit them as they turn in front of you. How can more LEOs protect you from that?

How about when they are around and not doing anything!

Ie driving around circles at the drags.... what happened to 15mph 500' from Gecko? and campsites? all they were doing is busting people for not having whips. How's that going to help in flat areas where cars are coming at you over 100mph? Dont get me wrong i love drags just as much as the next guy, but when your done racing down the open section, its 15mph on the way back to the beginning....people are crossing over from Gecko the whole time the drags are going on....its just an accident waiting to happen.

Pretty sad this last weekend too. I was sitting at olds watching the Rangers and one in perticular stood out to me. One of the guys in the Jeep CJ. He would pull up to a group and say some garble you couldn't understand into the PA system and drive off. A couple times I heard him telling people to pick up their trash and they just stood there, and he drove off. What was the point of that??? Such a waste.

As one group was leaving I saw they left a bunch of cans on the ground and as they drove away I quickly picked up as many as possible and tossed them in the the back of the truck. I guy stops and say "hey man, what are you doing"...I just glared at him and told him I was picking up after him....

Another issue I saw go down -
While sitting back drinking my Blackcherry Fresca at olds, I watch a couple older guys pull up in a Polaris Ranger both had beers in the cup holders...right on top of the hood in plain view...clearly Miller lite cans....they stopped and jumped out and passed the Ranger over to 2 boys (16ish maybe) and let them drive off in it. Nevermind that the older guys could have been nailed for open container but they just put those 2 boys in danger with the LEO's for something that wasn't even their fault.

Also saw some guys jumping rails off the top of China Wall without spotters.....HELLO? It took them a good 30 seconds for them to turnaround and jump off...do they not think someone could have gotten into their path of travel??? Get a clue!


The complete ignorance just blows me away out there......I just don't understand how some people survive in life!



ok sorry to rant.....

You bring up a lot of good points and my message was only posted as an example. Personally, extra law enforcement doesn't alter my fun at Glamis, nor those that I ride with. As for limiting the amount of users; it wouldn't work well for me, I have kids that are still in school and it's hard to get away early for the weekends, but I've seen its effects first hand; it works!
Tim

Its ok to Rant and thanks for sharing. Even more thanks for picking up the trash left behind by the trashers. Next time tell them to stop trashing the place and take their own trash back with them. I would have talk to the ranger about ticketing those people for leaving their trash. This is what I am talkling about we need to get more involved.

Would have told them except there was about 10 of them to the 3 of us. They were all gangster looking, and I wasn't about to go start some s***. As for the rangers...i would have told them had i felt that they would do anything about it. He drove by twice telling them to pick it up over the PA system and they just laughed at him. Maybe he felt the same intimidation.

I hear what you are saying Fugitive1, people need to get involved because the LEO's are either out numbered or just don't give an eff. I think if there was a program where people could report these thing, and something actually came out of it, more people wold be willing to help out. The bottom line is, nobody is going to stick their neck out and risk getting their a$$ beat or worse for being a vigilante. Thats why the LEO's have guns and radios.

Yeah that would make a difference on the amount of people there. There is a number to report Litter at glamis I will find it and post it. Again Taco thanks for looking out!!!!!

Hey, If you want to run out the bad element, all you have to do is enforce the laws you already have. Start writing tickets for littering. And big tickets for No Pass. And big tickets for speed limits (it is 15 mph in camp or near other people. Start checking vehicle registrations, both on the road and in the dunes. It won't take long and the losers will stop showing up. They don't want to get hassled by the man. You don't have to write new laws, just work the ones we already have. Believe me, losers will always be losers. And they will not pay the tickets and they will end up with a warrant. The next time they step out of line, they will go to jail.
Dean

I hear what you are saying too, but if the good people stop coming out on the holiday weekends, that just leaves it to the bad people, and the more bad people the more ammo the ecos have to close it down. Keep doing the right things, be helpful to your fellow duners, and don't let the bad people dictate your life. Having said that, I thought it was fairly quiet out there this Thanksgiving. At least over where we were in the washes.

Be safe people

I heard a story about a LEO telling someone in the washes to take down their caution tape, the guy complied and took it all down no problem. As he was doing this the LEO noticed someone in another camp with a glass bottle.
It turned out to be an underage drinker and he got a ticket. Then his brother came out to get involved.
It turned out the brother had a warrent and ended up getting a ride downtown from the LEO.
Good work LEO's

I am not a "more governemnt" type of person. But as time goes on this earth is being populated by more and more people who just don't give a hoot about anyone but themselves. When you lump a few hundred thousand people in a 10 square mile area you will have problems. And as I stated more and more as time goes by.

With this reality the only thing that is gonna work is the addition and enforcement of strict laws that protect you and I. If you are an honest law abiding person then you have nothing to worry about.

I agree, enforce the law. The trashy people will all end up in jail eventually!! HE HE!

Though, a few deaths considering there is up to 300,000 on a big weekend out there isn't bad. Unfortuantely, most of the deaths aren't contributed to alcohol at all. Most of the deaths are people not knowing what the hell they are doing, not paying attention, allowing their 10 year olds to ride banshees and side by sides as they please without a thought of safety or consideration for other people, and then come the drunken madness bouncing out of backs of trucks and such. Does anyone remember the golf cart viagra? Bright green gsxr on nitros, no roll cage, no helmet, I think he died, but that's around the time all the chaos started in the dunes. Used to see tents and family's now all you see is money and Egos. Get a grip people! Pay attenion to your kids, THEY DON'T NEED TO GO DOWN THE DRAGS!! Common sense. And for everyones sakes CLEAN UP YOUR MESS, WEAR A HELMET, and QUIT BRINGING ILLEGALS HOME! Just had to vent a little, sorry. Been coming out here for over 20 years, since I was little, and I can't believe the ignorance of people. OH and I grew up in Bullhead city from age 3-22 , so if you want to talk about the river...... Don't get me started...I was born here in Cali, and I live here now, but damn Californians ruin everything. $$$$$$$$$$$$ You know it's true.

Comp hill's curfew is supposed to be lifted, which I don't think is a good idea... it's too easy to get their if you don't have a ride. All the partiers can get there really easy.

I hadn't heard that the curfew is due to be lifted. Whether it should be or not is something else entirely.

Have you gotten the news somewhere that the current curfew will be eliminated this season?

VickiW

Let them lift it.

It will be easier for the Paddy Wagon to get in and arrest the riff raff...

This is the kind of stuff i like to hear!!!! I too have a few stories of the leos doing their jobs and it was great to watch. I know they do there best, they don't want to cause a lot of problems,however they will, if and when people complain.

Paddy wagon ??? , What Paddy wagon, What law enforcement ???. !.

IMO, one of the biggest problems is we duners have to share the dunes !. On one hand you have the ; 600hp+ drag peeps, the just dune peeps with or without hp, the just want to get to G and let my kids go on the kiddie track in front of camp peeps, and everything in between !. ( yeh I hate the kiddie tracks ) . So where is the happy medium you and I ask ?. Is it just respect your neighbor and the dunes or your fellow duner ?. Can this be achieved by the honor system ?.

JMO, I think we need to see more LEO's presence and the strong arm of the LAW !!.

.

I think that all you can do is educate...do it over and over until it finally sinks in. My families tradition is that every Sunday or pack up day, I send my kids out with a trash bag to pick up all the trash in camp. We always seem to camp with new people and they always think that I send my kids out to pick up trash as a punishment and every chance I get, I try to reinforce the idea that it's not a form of cruel punishment I inflict on my children, but it is a lesson in responsibility. It is a lesson that if they want to come to Glamis and play, that they need to take care of it and yes, that means even picking up stuff that wasn't ours.

If we all did the same, it might spread...just my .02

You know what I find interesting is that there has been 876 hits on the topic but only 29 response. Should I change the Title?
Edited so that I do not offened anyone.....sorry people, please forgive me.

I think the only reason this topic got so many hits is because of the vague topic title.
If you actually titled the topic with something related to trash, it wouldn't have near as many hits.

besides, there are about a dozen other topics about trash.

To insinuate that people don't care, is an insult to everyone reading this forum.

1. This is all preaching to the choir.
2. This has been beat to death. Nothing original in this topic.

I didn't INSINUATE aything and I would never INSULT anyone on here, on purpose, never on Purpose. Maybe your right about the topic but its not all about Trash. The title was to get people in and hopefully get some (good) responses. I wanted to know what most of the people on here thought about Safety (along with the trash issue)and what they were doing about it. Thanks to those of you that took their time to respond even if it wasn't a good one. Even you Robbie!!!! PS if I insulted anyone I am truly sorry for thats not my intention....please forgive me.

Maybe ...maybe not, I just wanted something new even to bring up old stuff, still the same old stuff going on at the Dunes, whats the difference, maybe someone should beat that to death. Then we would have so many issues in the dunes. What are you doing to help the issues in the Dunes????????

Fugitive, this will be my second post on GD. I have been dunning since 2002. Not very long. I was fortunate enough to get introduced to the dunes by some crusty veterans. As I've been reading this post I agree with alot of the posts on here. I am not afraid of more leo's and am highly for many more. I like the message about more b ig money tickets for no pass, glass bottles, under age drinking, registrations,etc... i am not afraid to approach people that need some education. I am a supporting member of the ASA.(Money) Are you? I may not post on the topics that I read but that does mean I don't give a damn.

I think that those of us with kids should make sure to teach them how to respect Glamis and their fellow duners. Teach them how to be safe and so on. They are the future generation of duners!

As for the idiots out there now, education would be key. I've only been going out to Glamis for 4 years but have been camping all my life. I was taught by my parents to always pick up after myself and to leave camp as clean or cleaner than when you got there. Maybe no one taught the idiots that.

In the short time I've been going to Glamis, I have filled up more trash bags than I can count and will continue to do so. I am only one person, but I can make a difference!

Thanks for your post trashman224,and your support!!!!!!! I hope i didn't affend you cuz that wasn't my intent, I was only asking just to see what people think. I know how people on here are, they are all great people and i had the pleasure of meeting some of them in person. Yes I am a member of the ASA.I also purchase alot of stuff from the ASA, i also bought my Season pass thru them and will continue to do so as long as they sell them.

Yea, but they wont. I believe the BLM has an unoffcial policy to wite up tickets that could lead to fines, IE whips, Helmets, thinkgs like that. They are NOT interested in helping us clean up Glamis. IF they were, they would arrest those who cause trouble, not simply s*** down an entire hill. If Glamis was shut down, they could then enjoy the holidays with their family.... If the BLM could make the rules, Glamis would have a big azz fince around it RIGHT NOW.

RoostKing...

The sad thing about this topic is that all the wrong people read it. The people of GD.Com are not the problem. And the people not on here are the majority of the problem. Sure I have seen good people do stupid things in Glamis and i'm sure i've done a few lame things myself.
You would think that with the information available at our fingertips (internet) that people would be more informed and unfortunately that is not the case. I can't figure it out either and I don't think no one can. Like someone said earlier "You can't fix stupid" it kind of goes along with "Just because you can doesn't mean you should"

We could go on for hours; but like I said earlier "The wrong people are reading it"

Ressurection!

New to the site, but been duning for a while (about 10 years now) and my wife's family is the original owner of a Corvair powered buggy with real implement tires on it (the thing won't die!) and were there when they shot Return of the Jedi, so they've been doing it for a little while...

Now that I've got a little one, we've stopped going to Glamis on major holidays and preferred to go in the middle of the week (or a Sunday through Tues type thing). We went a couple of years back during New Years, and it didn't seem too bad, but there were still idiots at WOT through the washes less than 20-30 feet from our toy hauler and other things that've made me nervous.

My question to you guys who have still been going on major holidays is: do you think the problem is still getting worse, or has it been better? I know that with people more worried about the economy, I see a lot less of the mega-powered cars out there, and a lot more people interested in simpler, smaller cars and less of the "hey look at me crowd" as a result. Do you guys notice the same? Should I venture out of my "off-weekend hole" or is it safe to play?

Thanks.