I have no idea if it can be done. I have no idea what it's gonna take. I have no idea how much work it will be, but the time for this to happen has come.
I have made one or two contatcts with the BLM lately, and i will get in touch with them to find out some of these answers.
I will keep you updated here.
Joe
Full Version: A Permanent Memorial...
You mean something like a war memorial that names could be added to over time? If so that would be cool, if it takes corporate sponsorship to get it done, count me in.
QUOTE(TNTDUNER @ Dec 4 2007, 10:22 AM) 
You mean something like a war memorial that names could be added to over time? If so that would be cool, if it takes corporate sponsorship to get it done, count me in.
Something like that would be awesome i think. Thanks you. I'll keep ya posted.
Snippets from the BLM website...
This is a simular issue discussed in 2006 durring the Lake Havasu Resource Management Plan.
So,
Think along the line of a Memorial that would enhance the recreation or wildlife.
A Park Bench is not needed and another Vault tank restroom is inappropriate for this.
Any brainstorming would be appreciated.
Something classy and representative of the good.
I'm just thinking ahead.
A Cross or memorial stone might be seen as a safety issue to the BLM.
This is a simular issue discussed in 2006 durring the Lake Havasu Resource Management Plan.
QUOTE
Use Authorization
Memorial monuments are not specifically addressed.
BLM would not permit placement of memorial monuments on BLM.
However, BLM would cooperate with other parties to place memorials (e.g.,
tree or park bench) to enhance a recreation site or wildlife habitat.
Memorial monuments are not specifically addressed.
BLM would not permit placement of memorial monuments on BLM.
However, BLM would cooperate with other parties to place memorials (e.g.,
tree or park bench) to enhance a recreation site or wildlife habitat.
So,
Think along the line of a Memorial that would enhance the recreation or wildlife.
A Park Bench is not needed and another Vault tank restroom is inappropriate for this.
Any brainstorming would be appreciated.
Something classy and representative of the good.
I'm just thinking ahead.
A Cross or memorial stone might be seen as a safety issue to the BLM.
name the stretch of the 78 through the dunes after people who gave their life for this sport?
http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index....120960&st=0
Maybe signs added to the fence. I don't know where the fence is going up, but if it keeps people and vehicles away from the trains, it's bound to save lives.
Whenever someone is hurt or killed in an accident, our responses are pretty much, "how awful, how did it happen?" We are asking not just out of morbid curiosity, but to *learn* what NOT to do in order that we might prevent the same pain for ourselves and loved ones. Sometimes accidents just happen, but all too often, there was a mistake made that could have been prevented. Whether it's on the train tracks, riding double, not wearing a helmet, driving drunk... if we can learn from it, then let's call attention to it. There's no doubt that the families don't want the errors of their deceased loved ones displayed permanently for all to see, but if it's done tastefully and can save lives, maybe it's worth it. MADD does it on billboards all over the country.
Maybe something like this:
Sami Bestwick
1993 - 2007
Please wait for the guard rails before crossing
Bob Smith
1973 - 2006
Please don't drink and drive.
Just a thought...
Maybe signs added to the fence. I don't know where the fence is going up, but if it keeps people and vehicles away from the trains, it's bound to save lives.
Whenever someone is hurt or killed in an accident, our responses are pretty much, "how awful, how did it happen?" We are asking not just out of morbid curiosity, but to *learn* what NOT to do in order that we might prevent the same pain for ourselves and loved ones. Sometimes accidents just happen, but all too often, there was a mistake made that could have been prevented. Whether it's on the train tracks, riding double, not wearing a helmet, driving drunk... if we can learn from it, then let's call attention to it. There's no doubt that the families don't want the errors of their deceased loved ones displayed permanently for all to see, but if it's done tastefully and can save lives, maybe it's worth it. MADD does it on billboards all over the country.
Maybe something like this:
Sami Bestwick
1993 - 2007
Please wait for the guard rails before crossing
Bob Smith
1973 - 2006
Please don't drink and drive.
Just a thought...
How about a new 15 mph speed limit sign with a cement pedistal dedicated to those that have lost there lives in glamis.
QUOTE(TNTDUNER @ Dec 4 2007, 10:22 AM)
You mean something like a war memorial that names could be added to over time? If so that would be cool, if it takes corporate sponsorship to get it done, count me in.
Wow that would be depressing.
QUOTE(CRACKER @ Dec 4 2007, 12:50 PM)
QUOTE(TNTDUNER @ Dec 4 2007, 10:22 AM)
You mean something like a war memorial that names could be added to over time? If so that would be cool, if it takes corporate sponsorship to get it done, count me in.
Wow that would be depressing.
Depressing, maybe...but also a reminder to be careful.
A plaque or some sort of shrine @ Osbourne overlook would be great.
It would be out of the way so nobody would hit it.
It would be out of the way so nobody would hit it.
Osbourne over look would be a great place for some type of memorial for fallen duners.
How about a concrete shade structure (at Osborne)with benches below? You could put bronze plaques on the shade structure dedicated to fallen duners, benches would enhance the area and satisfy the BLM.
QUOTE(DoubleH @ Dec 4 2007, 03:54 PM)
How about a concrete shade structure (at Osborne)with benches below? You could put bronze plaques on the shade structure dedicated to fallen duners, benches would enhance the area and satisfy the BLM.
Now this is becomming something!
QUOTE(DoubleH @ Dec 4 2007, 03:54 PM)
How about a concrete shade structure (at Osborne)with benches below? You could put bronze plaques on the shade structure dedicated to fallen duners, benches would enhance the area and satisfy the BLM.
I think this is a good idea. How about shade structures like they have at ocotillo with benches? I agree on the concrete part.
Have a non-profit (I can think of one right now, but I won't say it) create an escrow account or something of the sort where money can be held for situations like this.
Find a company that will agree to donate or sell the supplies and labor at a deep discount.
There'd have to be some thought put into who gets their names on the structure though...no need to put a wrench into a good idea and maybe it'll take care of itself as it plays out.
Maybe we can ask BLM to foot the bill for one or two shade structures in the first 10 washes, and then people who
put plaques on them in the name of someone agrees to take over maintenance costs?
Lots of options
I would agree with Osbourne being the perfect place for the Permanent Memorial. Like a Patio type cover with a Picinic table or 2 for visitors then add the shrine where you could add the plaques as needed.
Maybe signs added to the fence. I don't know where the fence is going up, but if it keeps people and vehicles away from the trains, it's bound to save lives.
Whenever someone is hurt or killed in an accident, our responses are pretty much, "how awful, how did it happen?" We are asking not just out of morbid curiosity, but to *learn* what NOT to do in order that we might prevent the same pain for ourselves and loved ones. Sometimes accidents just happen, but all too often, there was a mistake made that could have been prevented. Whether it's on the train tracks, riding double, not wearing a helmet, driving drunk... if we can learn from it, then let's call attention to it. There's no doubt that the families don't want the errors of their deceased loved ones displayed permanently for all to see, but if it's done tastefully and can save lives, maybe it's worth it. MADD does it on billboards all over the country.
Maybe something like this:
Sami Bestwick
1993 - 2007
Please wait for the guard rails before crossing
Bob Smith
1973 - 2006
Please don't drink and drive.
Just a thought...
Sorry but I just don't think this one is a good idea- It was an accident!
I think the best idea is just listing the names... in some sort of way...
Sami's cousin--- Dianna
Whenever someone is hurt or killed in an accident, our responses are pretty much, "how awful, how did it happen?" We are asking not just out of morbid curiosity, but to *learn* what NOT to do in order that we might prevent the same pain for ourselves and loved ones. Sometimes accidents just happen, but all too often, there was a mistake made that could have been prevented. Whether it's on the train tracks, riding double, not wearing a helmet, driving drunk... if we can learn from it, then let's call attention to it. There's no doubt that the families don't want the errors of their deceased loved ones displayed permanently for all to see, but if it's done tastefully and can save lives, maybe it's worth it. MADD does it on billboards all over the country.
Maybe something like this:
Sami Bestwick
1993 - 2007
Please wait for the guard rails before crossing
Bob Smith
1973 - 2006
Please don't drink and drive.
Just a thought...
Sorry but I just don't think this one is a good idea- It was an accident!
I think the best idea is just listing the names... in some sort of way...
Sami's cousin--- Dianna
Excellent ideas here. Good thinking all. Together, we can do something that would fit in.
QUOTE(Headinjury @ Dec 4 2007, 04:46 PM)
I would agree with Osbourne being the perfect place for the Permanent Memorial. Like a Patio type cover with a Picinic table or 2 for visitors then add the shrine where you could add the plaques as needed.
I will support anything that is permanent and recognized by everyone, but why not put it where people see it?
I go to Osborne for two things: A potty stop for the girls on the way too the river in the summer. They never want to use the restroom as we pass through Brawley. And then a potty stop on the way back from the river becasue they never seem to be able to make it back to Brawley.
I'll certainly go see it and pay my respects, but I think having more than one and having them in visible and high traffic/camping areas they'll get more attention, make a bigger impact, and see more regular use.
If it is going to be permanent, make it visible and usable to the most number of people.
I'm in for a few bucks and whatever help needed.
This is a great idea.
This is a great idea.
QUOTE(what hurts? @ Dec 4 2007, 02:55 PM)
A plaque or some sort of shrine @ Osbourne overlook would be great.
It would be out of the way so nobody would hit it.
It would be out of the way so nobody would hit it.
And make it an oversize bench, like 10 feet tall and 30 feet long. That way it's still a bench and the BLM couldn't protest...
What about adding plague's to one of the other boxes out by the flag pole.
Osbourne...yes...
Thumbs up to the shade structure at overlook!!!
QUOTE(lantz @ Dec 4 2007, 05:04 PM)
QUOTE(Headinjury @ Dec 4 2007, 04:46 PM)
I would agree with Osbourne being the perfect place for the Permanent Memorial. Like a Patio type cover with a Picinic table or 2 for visitors then add the shrine where you could add the plaques as needed.
I will support anything that is permanent and recognized by everyone, but why not put it where people see it?
I go to Osborne for two things: A potty stop for the girls on the way too the river in the summer. They never want to use the restroom as we pass through Brawley. And then a potty stop on the way back from the river becasue they never seem to be able to make it back to Brawley.
I'll certainly go see it and pay my respects, but I think having more than one and having them in visible and high traffic/camping areas they'll get more attention, make a bigger impact, and see more regular use.
If it is going to be permanent, make it visible and usable to the most number of people.
Are you sure you're stopping at Osborne?
There are no bathrooms there.
As for where to put up a memorial, the BLM has jurisdiction only over federal lands. It might be easier to get permission to put up a memorial on private land owned by the GBS, their private property extends on both sides of the RR tracks and some distance to the south of the compound. The BLM has no jurisdiction and thus would not be able to prevent it.
Socaldmax,
While placing the memorial on Private Property would be a faster/easier route (If the Owners agreed)...
Placing the Memorial on BLM Land makes it a Government Monument.
* No worries of GBS sale of Ownership.
* Proper identification of agencies responsible for maintenance, repair, etc.
* Publicly listed on BLM website.
Something long lasting and permanent is worth going through the complete process.
I'd think this is not simply some whim because of the recent tragedy.
There are allot of folks that have lost their life in Glamis.
Can folks add names to this thread?
While placing the memorial on Private Property would be a faster/easier route (If the Owners agreed)...
Placing the Memorial on BLM Land makes it a Government Monument.
* No worries of GBS sale of Ownership.
* Proper identification of agencies responsible for maintenance, repair, etc.
* Publicly listed on BLM website.
Something long lasting and permanent is worth going through the complete process.
I'd think this is not simply some whim because of the recent tragedy.
There are allot of folks that have lost their life in Glamis.
Can folks add names to this thread?
after some thought i was thinkn osborne or the flagpole as well. we shall see how it plays out!
After thinking about it... I think the east side of the tracks is the most suitable area for a permanent memorial area.
The dunes are fine for the folks that can make it... but I'd think that something like this should be as accessible as possible... and anything in the dunes rules that out.
Osborne is ok but any added footprint there impacts recreation... you'd have to give up high use camping area to get a memorial ...and while I'd certainly want to visit the memorial and pay respects, not so sure I'd want to camp next to one
Something on the east side of the tracks... maybe at the ted kipf inetersection... a 2wd honda would have no concern of getting stuck... it is not a high use area that is impacted... visibility and accessability would be high.
I was thinking something near vendor flats... but the traffic wouldn't be conducive to paying respects and reflecting upon a nice memorial.... the east side is slightly removed from those issues.
Another ironic issue that would bennefit the memorial site there is the fact that most would have to cross the tracks to visit it and they happen to be the catalyst for this effort... the awareness that could come from this location would bennefit everyone.
The dunes are fine for the folks that can make it... but I'd think that something like this should be as accessible as possible... and anything in the dunes rules that out.
Osborne is ok but any added footprint there impacts recreation... you'd have to give up high use camping area to get a memorial ...and while I'd certainly want to visit the memorial and pay respects, not so sure I'd want to camp next to one
Something on the east side of the tracks... maybe at the ted kipf inetersection... a 2wd honda would have no concern of getting stuck... it is not a high use area that is impacted... visibility and accessability would be high.
I was thinking something near vendor flats... but the traffic wouldn't be conducive to paying respects and reflecting upon a nice memorial.... the east side is slightly removed from those issues.
Another ironic issue that would bennefit the memorial site there is the fact that most would have to cross the tracks to visit it and they happen to be the catalyst for this effort... the awareness that could come from this location would bennefit everyone.
QUOTE(HozayKwarvo @ Dec 5 2007, 10:43 AM)
After thinking about it... I think the east side of the tracks is the most suitable area for a permanent memorial area.
The dunes are fine for the folks that can make it... but I'd think that something like this should be as accessible as possible... and anything in the dunes rules that out.
Osborne is ok but any added footprint there impacts recreation... you'd have to give up high use camping area to get a memorial ...and while I'd certainly want to visit the memorial and pay respects, not so sure I'd want to camp next to one
Something on the east side of the tracks... maybe at the ted kipf inetersection... a 2wd honda would have no concern of getting stuck... it is not a high use area that is impacted... visibility and accessability would be high.
I was thinking something near vendor flats... but the traffic wouldn't be conducive to paying respects and reflecting upon a nice memorial.... the east side is slightly removed from those issues.
Another ironic issue that would bennefit the memorial site there is the fact that most would have to cross the tracks to visit it and they happen to be the catalyst for this effort... the awareness that could come from this location would bennefit everyone.
The dunes are fine for the folks that can make it... but I'd think that something like this should be as accessible as possible... and anything in the dunes rules that out.
Osborne is ok but any added footprint there impacts recreation... you'd have to give up high use camping area to get a memorial ...and while I'd certainly want to visit the memorial and pay respects, not so sure I'd want to camp next to one
Something on the east side of the tracks... maybe at the ted kipf inetersection... a 2wd honda would have no concern of getting stuck... it is not a high use area that is impacted... visibility and accessability would be high.
I was thinking something near vendor flats... but the traffic wouldn't be conducive to paying respects and reflecting upon a nice memorial.... the east side is slightly removed from those issues.
Another ironic issue that would bennefit the memorial site there is the fact that most would have to cross the tracks to visit it and they happen to be the catalyst for this effort... the awareness that could come from this location would bennefit everyone.
excelent points for sure.
QUOTE(HozayKwarvo @ Dec 5 2007, 10:43 AM)
After thinking about it... I think the east side of the tracks is the most suitable area for a permanent memorial area.
The dunes are fine for the folks that can make it... but I'd think that something like this should be as accessible as possible... and anything in the dunes rules that out.
Osborne is ok but any added footprint there impacts recreation... you'd have to give up high use camping area to get a memorial ...and while I'd certainly want to visit the memorial and pay respects, not so sure I'd want to camp next to one
Something on the east side of the tracks... maybe at the ted kipf inetersection... a 2wd honda would have no concern of getting stuck... it is not a high use area that is impacted... visibility and accessability would be high.
I was thinking something near vendor flats... but the traffic wouldn't be conducive to paying respects and reflecting upon a nice memorial.... the east side is slightly removed from those issues.
Another ironic issue that would bennefit the memorial site there is the fact that most would have to cross the tracks to visit it and they happen to be the catalyst for this effort... the awareness that could come from this location would bennefit everyone.
The dunes are fine for the folks that can make it... but I'd think that something like this should be as accessible as possible... and anything in the dunes rules that out.
Osborne is ok but any added footprint there impacts recreation... you'd have to give up high use camping area to get a memorial ...and while I'd certainly want to visit the memorial and pay respects, not so sure I'd want to camp next to one
Something on the east side of the tracks... maybe at the ted kipf inetersection... a 2wd honda would have no concern of getting stuck... it is not a high use area that is impacted... visibility and accessability would be high.
I was thinking something near vendor flats... but the traffic wouldn't be conducive to paying respects and reflecting upon a nice memorial.... the east side is slightly removed from those issues.
Another ironic issue that would bennefit the memorial site there is the fact that most would have to cross the tracks to visit it and they happen to be the catalyst for this effort... the awareness that could come from this location would bennefit everyone.
how about next to the old cemetary by the train tracks.
Lots of people go to cemetaries to pay their respects.
easily accessable
QUOTE(Robbie @ Dec 5 2007, 11:25 AM)
QUOTE(HozayKwarvo @ Dec 5 2007, 10:43 AM)
After thinking about it... I think the east side of the tracks is the most suitable area for a permanent memorial area.
The dunes are fine for the folks that can make it... but I'd think that something like this should be as accessible as possible... and anything in the dunes rules that out.
Osborne is ok but any added footprint there impacts recreation... you'd have to give up high use camping area to get a memorial ...and while I'd certainly want to visit the memorial and pay respects, not so sure I'd want to camp next to one
Something on the east side of the tracks... maybe at the ted kipf inetersection... a 2wd honda would have no concern of getting stuck... it is not a high use area that is impacted... visibility and accessability would be high.
I was thinking something near vendor flats... but the traffic wouldn't be conducive to paying respects and reflecting upon a nice memorial.... the east side is slightly removed from those issues.
Another ironic issue that would bennefit the memorial site there is the fact that most would have to cross the tracks to visit it and they happen to be the catalyst for this effort... the awareness that could come from this location would bennefit everyone.
The dunes are fine for the folks that can make it... but I'd think that something like this should be as accessible as possible... and anything in the dunes rules that out.
Osborne is ok but any added footprint there impacts recreation... you'd have to give up high use camping area to get a memorial ...and while I'd certainly want to visit the memorial and pay respects, not so sure I'd want to camp next to one
Something on the east side of the tracks... maybe at the ted kipf inetersection... a 2wd honda would have no concern of getting stuck... it is not a high use area that is impacted... visibility and accessability would be high.
I was thinking something near vendor flats... but the traffic wouldn't be conducive to paying respects and reflecting upon a nice memorial.... the east side is slightly removed from those issues.
Another ironic issue that would bennefit the memorial site there is the fact that most would have to cross the tracks to visit it and they happen to be the catalyst for this effort... the awareness that could come from this location would bennefit everyone.
how about next to the old cemetary by the train tracks.
Lots of people go to cemetaries to pay their respects.
easily accessable
That is a great location and a great idea... but I'm 98% sure that it is private property
Why put a memorial for fallen duners on Ted Kipf road?
Why not put it on Ogilby rd?
I understand that some of you want to make this some sort of permanent BLM memorial, but there are several issues.
1. Will the BLM even allow it? They are a bureaucracy, and logic or goodwill means nothing to them.
2. Will the BLM approve the design? They may very well try to dictate the design and put it up for bid by artists or some other horse pucky.
3. Hozay brought up good points about limited space at Osborne. Chances are, any memorial that gets added will reduce prime usable camping space. Are you willing to sacrifice that?
Doing it on private property may end up being the viable option if the BLM says "no." Also, private property is closest to where the memorials were originally placed.
Why not put it on Ogilby rd?
I understand that some of you want to make this some sort of permanent BLM memorial, but there are several issues.
1. Will the BLM even allow it? They are a bureaucracy, and logic or goodwill means nothing to them.
2. Will the BLM approve the design? They may very well try to dictate the design and put it up for bid by artists or some other horse pucky.
3. Hozay brought up good points about limited space at Osborne. Chances are, any memorial that gets added will reduce prime usable camping space. Are you willing to sacrifice that?
Doing it on private property may end up being the viable option if the BLM says "no." Also, private property is closest to where the memorials were originally placed.
NOT a personal supporter of this idea
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.