Spent the last 3 days at Buttercup, no Enforcement for passes on the way in, no BLM camp to camp checking for passes and No Enforcement on the way out Sunday at 12:30...

Glad I bought my $90 pass... I few so much safer knowing the BLM is here to protect us from ourselves... :roll:

Dunernr, I am looking for answers and will post them when I get them.

Thanks

Glenn, Chuck Mobley and I have written to Neil Hamada, Jerry Seaver, Greg Thomsen, at least 4 times since October 1st asking for numbers. Mind you, we're not even asking for a compliance report. All we want is a visitor count.

The last we were told is they will be available for the TRT meeting in February.

February.

That's well past the busiest time for Glamis and much too late in the season to be of much use.

It's not like they don't have the numbers, right? Shouldn't they have the numbers pretty near at hand? We're wondering about that very much.

Let's say my boss told me in September my year-end bonus depends on the number of people I call who call me back per day. Two weeks after he told me, he asks me how many people called me back that first week. Shouldn't I have that answer handy? Whether he asks me two days later or just before the end of the year, the numbers aren't going to change.

Now let's say I'm doing a spectacular job, making thousands of phone calls and about 90% are calling back... he'll need to know that to budget for my huge bonus, naturally

But let's say I'm lousy on the phone and only about 41% have called back. Waiting until December 15th to bring that to anyone's attention is too damn late. There's no way I can get compliance, er, the return calls to improve that late in the the bonus period.

Glenn, we need those numbers. State Director Pool's office is our next aim.

Vicki

QUOTE

Glenn, Chuck Mobley and I have written to Neil Hamada, Jerry Seaver, Greg Thomsen, at least 4 times since October 1st asking for numbers.

Got an email suggesting I explain why DUNERS is writing to these particular people.

Neil Hamada = Dunes Manager
Jerry Seaver = TRT Chairman
Greg Thomsen = El Centro Field Office Manager

Mike Pool is the State Director, but there is one step in between that we'll take first, and that's the California Desert District Manager.

Oh, and I did chat briefly with Greg Thomsen this weekend, late Saturday afternoon. He said he thought the weekend's compliance was somewhere around 75-80%. That's a great estimate and I hope it's true. It sure tells me the numbers we're asking for must be out there though, so where are they for the public?

Vicki

QUOTE

Glenn, Chuck Mobley and I have written to Neil Hamada, Jerry Seaver, Greg Thomsen, at least 4 times since October 1st asking for numbers.  Mind you, we're not even asking for a compliance report.  All we want is a visitor count. It's not like they don't have the numbers, right?  Shouldn't they have the numbers pretty near at hand?  We're wondering about that very much. Vicki

So you are saying that Jerry has been given these numbers as TRT chairman but is not releasing them to anyone else, even other TRT members?

Julie

No, actually we've been including Jerry Seaver on the emails as a courtesy, since he is the TRT Chairman.

The only response we've received has been from Neil and it was unsatisfactory.

Vicki

Then may I suggest you be more clear on how you write things? It certainly reads as if you are including Jerry as someone who is able to provide you with those numbers. Someone less knowledgable of the workings of the TRT and the BLM would then assume Jerry has this information and is not being forthcoming with it.
Julie

In my opinion the Chairman of the TRT should be saying something. Why is it that Jerry never post's any info? Why is he not trying to find out this info if he don't have it? If he is then lets hear about it. After all he is the "go to man" Right???

QUOTE

Then may I suggest you be more clear on how you write things? It certainly reads as if you are including Jerry as someone who is able to provide you with those numbers. Someone less knowledgable of the workings of the TRT and the BLM would then assume Jerry has this information and is not being forthcoming with it. Julie

Yeah I suppose you're right. Someone that would see nothing but bad in anything someone posted.


The main focus here is that the BLM is not forthcoming with information. It's the TRT's JOB to hound them for that info until they come up with those numbers. The BLM stated that they will be tracking visitor numbers and compliance number. If they are then we as the users of this land deserve to know what those numbers are. It's in our best interest to have this information.

The Chairman of the TRT needs to be more vocal and step up to help DUNERS & duners get this information. Since he did not respond to the email that was sent by Vicki and the one sent by me then obviously we need to persue this issue up the chain of command, with or without the TRT. Simply stated DUNERS does not need permission to talk to our Government agencies. We do not have to go thru the TRT. If Neil, Greg, Jerry, or anyone else chooses to ignore our requests then we will not stop there.

But, alas this isn't about Jerry.. It's about the BLM not being forthcoming with the information they promised to have available.

[quote="Radrat"][quote]Then may I suggest you be more clear on how you write things? It certainly reads as if you are including Jerry as someone who is able to provide you with those numbers. Someone less knowledgable of the workings of the TRT and the BLM would then assume Jerry has this information and is not being forthcoming with it.
Julie[/quote]


[quote]Yeah I suppose you're right. Someone that would see nothing but bad in anything someone posted. [/quote]

Oh yes, just picking on Vicki again.....

No, Chuck, anyone with any basic knowledge of the ENGLISH LANGUAGE would see it that way. That is unless their head is so far up someone's ass that they can't even see the light of day to read what was written :roll:


[quote]The main focus here is that the BLM is not forthcoming with information. It's the TRT's JOB to hound them for that info until they come up with those numbers. The BLM stated that they will be tracking visitor numbers and compliance number. If they are then we as the users of this land deserve to know what those numbers are. It's in our best interest to have this information. [/quote]

Exactly-the BLM is not being forthcoming with the information, which Jerry has no more control over than DUNERS does. But by Vicki including him as someone emailed and as part of the "they" that should have the numbers she has cast the same aspersions on him as well as the BLM.

[quote]The Chairman of the TRT needs to be more vocal and step up to help DUNERS & duners get this information. Since he did not respond to the email that was sent by Vicki and the one sent by me then obviously we need to persue this issue up the chain of command, with or without the TRT. Simply stated DUNERS does not need permission to talk to our Government agencies. We do not have to go thru the TRT. If Neil, Greg, Jerry, or anyone else chooses to ignore our requests then we will not stop there. [/quote]

Good for you....
I never said you had to go through the TRT-I was pointing out to others that Jerry has no more info than the other TRT members or the general public and to imply such and lead other less informed duners to a different conclusion is just that-misleading.

[quote]But, alas this isn't about Jerry.. It's about the BLM not being forthcoming with the information they promised to have available.[/quote]

Exactly-it isn't about Jerry, but someone sure tried to take it down that path and make it look like it was, didn't she? And of course for trying to make sure the issue was clear-that this has to do with the BLM and not Jerry Seaver-I get that I'm just trying to make "bad" out of what she wrote :roll:

Julie

[quote]
Exactly-it isn't about Jerry, but someone sure tried to take it down that path and make it look like it was, didn't she? And of course for trying to make sure the issue was clear-that this has to do with the BLM and not Jerry Seaver
[/quote]

But what about me? I am questioning what exactly Jerry is doing as Chairman of the TRT...

[quote]In my opinion the Chairman of the TRT should be saying something. Why is it that Jerry never post's any info? Why is he not trying to find out this info if he don't have it? If he is then lets hear about it. After all he is the "go to man" Right???[/quote]

So???

Stay focused now. The issue is visitor counts and compliance numbers.


The issue folks is that the BLM is not going to give us those numbers unless the TRT jumps up and down and demands them. DUNERS has asked the TRT to assist us in this. If the Chairman refuses to acknowledge our request then fine. The Vice Chair and one of the other members(Glenn) is trying to help get those numbers. And I thank them for that.

When we get those numbers or the TRT gets those numbers hopefully they will post them for all to see. I know we will.

Then we my not like what we see. Hell the numbers could be wrong anyway. Who knows. But, we need to have the BLM accountable for the numbers. If not we are doomed next year to increased fees.

I bet they have the arrest numbers handy. Those will put out fast. You all watch.

[quote][quote]
Exactly-it isn't about Jerry, but someone sure tried to take it down that path and make it look like it was, didn't she? And of course for trying to make sure the issue was clear-that this has to do with the BLM and not Jerry Seaver
[/quote]

But what about me? I am questioning what exactly Jerry is doing as Chairman of the TRT...[/quote]

Jeff-

If you have questions for Jerry or ideas as to how you think he should be posting more on this or any other board, may I suggest you direct them to him? Brian posted at the top of this forum how to get ahold of the TRT for just that reason. I surely can't answer for Jerry as to why or how much he posts-nor should anyone else.

Julie

[quote][quote]
Exactly-it isn't about Jerry, but someone sure tried to take it down that path and make it look like it was, didn't she? And of course for trying to make sure the issue was clear-that this has to do with the BLM and not Jerry Seaver
[/quote]

But what about me? I am questioning what exactly Jerry is doing as Chairman of the TRT...[/quote]

In all fairness only Jerry can answer this great question.

[quote]No, actually we've been including Jerry Seaver on the emails as a courtesy, since he is the TRT Chairman.
Vicki[/quote]

[quote]DUNERS has asked the TRT to assist us in this. If the Chairman refuses to acknowledge our request then fine. [/quote]

So did he just get a copy of the email sent to the BLM or did you specifically ask his help in getting the numbers? Cuz you and Vicki are saying two different things.

Julie

[quote]
So did he just get a copy of the email sent to the BLM or did you specifically ask his help
[/quote]

Lets get Jerry to answer this...

Chuck's right, this is about compliance and visitor counts and it's too important an issue to get lost in smoke.

The fact that repeated requests for those numbers (sent since the first week of October) have been ignored (well, except for the one insufficient answer), was something that Glenn needs to be aware of.

Although I wasn't going to discuss it in so much detail here, considering the import of the requested information, to me the silence (a fact) is inexcusable (my opinion).

But DUNERS is obviously not alone in their concern on this issue; we recently found out that Ed Waldheim and Roy Denner are beating the compliance bushes right along with DUNERS, hammering even higher up that we've gone (so far).

And once again I have to say Chuck's right again (but don't get all inflated now) when he says the TRT must be very forceful on the compliance issue. Waiting until February to chart the progress of "cost recovery" should not be acceptable to anyone.

But Chuck, tsk tsk... you did make an inaccurate statement:

[quote]DUNERS has asked the TRT to assist us in this. [/quote]

It is not just DUNERS asking the TRT for assistance; there are many more people, even non-DUNERS members, asking for their assistance. Next time try to say it right, would ya? :wink:

Vicki

Jeez there I go again.. :shock:

Sheeeesh.. I love you all and your great people - but this bickering is a total turn off to the important issues at hand.

TRT is responsible for getting info to us period. They knew that when they applied for the position.

I dont give a rats (no offense chuck) ass who is where and what - Those people have a responsibility and if they dont suck up and get on with their responsibilities then nothing is acomplished and we still have closed dunes like we do now. And that damn closure right in the middle really got in my way this weekend >:<

All these lines in the sand between these ORGs is really a HUGE turn off. Hope people of the future can see past all this - and go for what needs to be done to open the damn dunes up.

(FYI - outsiders point of view - take it for whats its worth)

I'm listening chum..

If we can just get the BLM to listen..


Now about this "OLD" thing.. :shock:

well - uh - about that "Old" thing.. Just means "that camp" has been there forever.. uh.. yeah thats it..

That is my point. The BLM is not listening. They didnt in the past and they arent now. so we have acomplilshed NOTHING but more cops, trash, and problems out there this last weekend.

I dont care if it was 100% compliance - The problems of Glamis remain. ALL the politicans responsible for the south west know whats going on out here and it those problems dont get fixed - out sand box will become something of the past. Seems the BLM could give a crap less. >:<

Hello everyone,

I'm reading your posts, and will be looking for answers to questions & comments. But I will say right now (again) that I will do my best to not argue points with any of you. As a TRT member thats not my place. Now as a duner that maybe different as I have veiwpoints of my own as well. :wink:

First of all, for simplicity's sake, I volunteered to be the point person for the TRT forum hosted on this BBS. (If you want me here to do that) Thanks for the forum Brian and Slappy! I also post on YumaDuners. In turn, Larry Jowdy is continuing to be the point person for the TRT forum hosted on the ASA BBS.

Any TRT member, including Jerry Seaver, is free to post on either, or any, any BBS they choose. I post in the TRT forum on the ASA BBS also, but leave as much as possible to Larry. He will do the same here.

The TRT, including Jerry Seaver, is very much aware of the need of the compliance numbers. It is after all a large part of the scope of the TRT's purpose. As to why Jerry hasn't answered e-mails, he will have to answer that one. WE, the TRT, have been trying to get this info and will continue to do so.

I hope that you, the dune users, are seeing a difference in how THIS TRT is working to get info, to and from, you. If you feel you are not getting the info you want, or not having your points heard, please e-mail it to TRTemail@aol.com and it will be forwarded to ALL TRT members, not just one of us. If you want, you can e-mail me directly at lobuck@adelphia.net

Lastly, please keep in mind that while there are some PW's here that use this BBS like a "chat room" , it may take more than a day for me, or someone else, to read your post and post a response. Please be patient.

Thanks :!:

[quote]
so we have acomplilshed NOTHING but more cops, trash, and problems out there this last weekend.
[/quote]

This is the problem that concerns me. Is the BLM intentionally jack us around here.
I mean that was a joke on Sat night. Cops yes.. Did they do anything NO!! What a freakin' waste of money. No compliance patrol. How many of those trucks at the drags paid? Or at Olds paid?

We have to be more demanding of and hold the BLM responsible for what they have fail to do.

Dealing with any government agency is slow. Their is no accoutability and if they screw up the get promoted. That is why the President is trying to get rid of the union that they have which promotes lazyness. Maybe oneday they will hire hard working and honest people with common sence. :shock:

[quote]
Glenn, Chuck Mobley and I have written to Neil Hamada, Jerry Seaver, Greg Thomsen, at least 4 times since October 1st asking for numbers. Mind you, we're not even asking for a compliance report. All we want is a visitor count.

The last we were told is they will be available for the TRT meeting in February.
[/quote]

Getting Compliance reports and Visitor counts will be helpful; but you guys forget-it's the BLM!

Relax and wait. Nothing will/is getting done till next season anyway; but you guys forget-it's the BLM!

I guess my point is this:
but you guys forget-it's the BLM!

The closures are NOT going to open this year.

I was really pissed off for a while, because I had forgotten and now I want you to remember:
it's the BLM, It ain't gonna make any difference whom wants the numbers.

See you at the next TRT meeting!

Righttttttttttt

Chum sums it up:
[quote]
That is my point. The BLM is not listening. They didnt in the past and they arent now. so we have acomplilshed NOTHING but more cops, trash, and problems out there this last weekend.

I dont care if it was 100% compliance - The problems of Glamis remain. ALL the politicans responsible for the south west know whats going on out here and it those problems dont get fixed - out sand box will become something of the past. Seems the BLM could give a crap less.
[/quote]

Seems the BLM could give a crap less.
They're Government Workers, you figure it out...

Now everyone just get along and dune.

Come to terms with the closures being in place for another season.

I don't like it, you don't like it, but....but you guys forget-it's the BLM!


Anyway, as I have said in the past, Compliance doesn't mean squatt with out properly counting every Primary Camp Vehicle. And that isn't happening is it...

All together now:

It's the BLM Silly....

See you in Feburary!

[quote]Compliance doesn't mean squatt with out properly counting every Primary Camp Vehicle. And that isn't happening is it...[/quote]

Well, for $25 a week and $90 a season, it had better be happening.

But without accountability, we just don't know for sure.

And it seems, at least at a local level, they are resisting our requests for accountability.

So we have no choice but to reach beyond the local level :rant:

Yeah, it's the BLM... but that doesn't make it right.

Vicki

As was discussed at the TRT Meeting in October, three meetings per year is not enough to do all the things that the DUNERS/duners want to have done. The BLM resisted additional meetings suggested by the TRT members. Wouldn't a TRT meeting about now be beneficial? The TRT will be helpful, but it has been established with a faulty foundation and will not ultimately be successful. Lack of success will not be due to bad representation from the dedicated members of the TRT. Those of you that have met the TRT members know that they are good representatives for the duning community. The TRT could easily end up being the scapgoat for the BLM, which would not be fair. :evil:

Boy do I need to dune. The fire made me cancel my trip and I am sure cranky now!!!! >:< >:<

--Mike

Mike is right. The BLM has not given the TRT the opprotunity it deserves to get the business at hand accomplished. I request that the TRT push their weight around a little. If Neil and Greg are not going to be forthright with the Duning community the TRT must take it up a notch. Their boss is the next step. Then Mike Pool after her.


And yes this would be a PERFECT time for a meeting. Alot needs to be discussed. Like why the LEO's didn't continue from last's years way of enforcement. What are the compliance numbers, what are they going to do about the stolen fee machine, what are they going to do about the trash issue, and basically a State of the Dunes address.

To add to my previous post....

The members of the TRT should insist on monthly meetings during the season so that the TRT does not fail. The resistance from the BLM for additional meetings stems from an inability to effectively do their job and to be held accountable for their responsibilities to the dunning community.

Additional meetings would force the BLM to listen and respond on a timely basis to the issues and requests of the duners. It would eliminate the "we didn't know" excuse. Answers would be provided fast enough to allow a reasonable response to issues, rather than less well thought out knee jerk reactions by the BLM. The good members of the TRT owe it to themselves to insist on monthly meetings during the season to increase effectiveness and chances for success of the TRT.

--Mike

Sheesh.. where I work, when I need something done I kick peoples doors in to get their attention if I dont feel Im getting what I need to get the job done.
The TRT might as well be a scapegoat for the BLM then if they just sit there and let it happen.
I was under the ASSUMPTION that the TRT was in the mood to kick in some doors and make some demands and technically kick a little ass. Nothing on the good ole folks of the TRT but I would rather get kicked off fighting for what needs to be done then sit around and wait. What are they gonns kick all the members of the TRT off?
Sure there are rules. Those same rules are what got us in this mess to begin with. EFFN BLM needs a good ass kicken cause people are getting killed out there and they dont seem to give a crap.
Im not talking about the individual officers. I have the highest respect for them. Im talking about the department. Same for the TRT.

Geez, Rx4, Radrat, Chummin...

Your words are so absolutely right on and I can't find the right words to say BRAVO! HEAR HEAR! EXACTLY!

We have been asked to rely on the TRT and if that's what we're going to do, the TRT needs to step up to the plate.

Vicki

It was mentioned earlier in this post that we had received an insufficient response from Neil Hamada and no response from anyone else, to a series of emails that have been sent asking for compliance and visitor count information.

Yesterday, we sent this email out (one last try before working our way up the food chain):

[quote]This has still not been answered.

We are once again asking for a briefing as to the visitor count so far this season and at the very least a rough estimate of compliance ratios.

Neil's previous response was that we would need to wait until the TRT meeting, which is not until February 2004, which is well into the twilight of the duning season. This is simply too late to be of any benefit.

If compliance is down, we must all make an effort to bring it up. If it is up, there is no better time to seek advice from the duning community on what to do with the surplus funding than during duning season.

Please do not remain silent on this issue. DUNERS would very much like to help in the BLM's outreach to the duning community but that is impossible if there is no reaching out by the BLM. [/quote]

We did receive a response from Jerry Seaver, TRT Chairman:

[quote]Vicki,
While we are waiting for the information the best thing that can be done is to get the best compliance possible. If there is more money collected than what is needed for recovering the costs, then it will do one of two things. Lower the costs of the passes next year or the surplus can be used on items based on input from the ISDRA visitors. A survey is being put together to get input on what they are willing to pay for by Glenn Montgomery. Even if we had the numbers you are asking for, you could only guess how it would work out in the end. We need your help and everybody's help in maximizing the compliance to avoid the chance of coming up short on recovering the costs. The TRT will post any information that is furnished us on this issue, as we get it.
Thanks,
Jerry Seaver
ISDRA TRT Chairman [/quote]

And here is what we responded with:

[quote]Jerry,

I think everyone will agree that the best anyone can do right now is work toward the best compliance possible. I'm sure we can also all agree with your assessment as to what will happen if there is more money collected than what is needed.
Our primary concern is not with a surplus, but rather what will happen in the event there is a deficit.

Without answers from the BLM regarding visitation and/or compliance numbers, it is absolutely impossible to have any idea as to which way the scales may tip and if we wait until February to find out what those numbers are, we will not have time to fix the errors.

In addition to everyone monitoring the duners for compliance, there is also the issue of monitoring the BLM for accuracy. It would be wonderful to believe that all is well and everything that can be done is being done. But in the real world, it has been shown that believing such a thing often ends in disappointment.

We simply need some assurance that the BLM is working as hard toward accuracy and accountability as we are toward compliance and cooperation.

I'm sure the BLM is performing as expected and promised, which means the numbers are there for consumption. We are only asking that they be made available, and not at the twilight of the season.

I do not feel that this is too much to ask, but if there is perhaps a reason these numbers are being kept from public view, I would be very interested to learn the details.

Thank you again Jerry, for your response.

Neil, please let us know the Bureau of Land Management's position on this.

Vicki Warren
DUNERS President[/quote]

Glenn, I probably beat you to the mark in posting this (the entire TRT was included in Jerry's response and my reply)... hope you don't mind.

We'll post any response we get from the BLM (if there is one to post), unless of course, a solid reason for withholding such information is forthcoming.

Vicki

So the way I read it Jerry(TRT) is just sitting back and waiting??? What ever happend to holding the BLM accountable and I'm not just talking about Complience numbers.

I want to know why they were not checking for passes at Buttercup Sunday Afternoon! Did I spend $90 for nothing??? >:<

[quote] Did I spend $90 for nothing??? >:<[/quote]

No Jeff, you spent $90 for a seasons pass to the dunes, just like the majority of the rest of us on these boards.

Julie

Well, for my $90 I expect the BLM to be out enforcing Compliance. If they don't then it will cost me and you $180 next year to make up for all the NON-Pass buyers from this year! Right?

pretty much your right Dunernr. That is exactly what could happen. Or they will use the excuse "see we should have charged 180 then we would have had more compliance and more enforcement."

So you feel you spent $90 for "nothing" rather than realizing that by purchasing the pass (whether they check on a certain weekend or not) you are part of the duners in compliance-which can only help those numbers?

And I am not advocating that the BLM not be checking passes-I'm just saying maybe it doesn't matter if you happened to get checked this weekend or not. Maybe they were working on different areas at that time. The BLM could have been concentrating on Glamis this weekend or just not happened to have anyone there at the time you left. That is not unusual-some areas get more coverage than others at certain times.
And for those of you who have complained about too much enforcement and are now asking for more-if they hire even more people to deal with enforcement then THAT is going to affect next years pricing because of the increase in personnel. Let's remember-the increase from $30 to $90 did not suddenly mean the BLM had 3 x's as much money to spend and using phrases like "I want to see x for my $90" isn't the way it is going to work. You start requesting more services, enforcement, pads, toilets, whatever, that too is going to bring the cost of those passes up even higher.

Julie

"ZERO TOLERANCE"

Julie lighten up. He was using it as a figure of speech. What he is getting at is why are they not checking for compliance. I assume by now everyone here is aware of why the fee is 90. That doesn't excuse the BLM from not doing what they say they were going to do. And especially for not informing us why they didn't.

You can't have compliance up if the BLM doesn't enforce it. They factored in the cost of that and so they should use it.

The bottom line is they are not doing what they said they were going to do. Regardless of how you say it it's dead wrong and needs to be fixed and monitored. Or we all loss.

[quote]The TRT could easily end up being the scapgoat for the BLM, which would not be fair.[/quote]
This is what the BLM have the TRT for. To use in press releases and such... "Our new $90 policy was approved by a forum of dune users known as the Technical Review Team indicating that this is what the duning public wants."
How many times have you seen that statement or something similar in a press release?

[quote]I request that the TRT push their weight around a little. If Neil and Greg are not going to be forthright with the Duning community the TRT must take it up a notch. Their boss is the next step. Then Mike Pool after her.

The TRT might as well be a scapegoat for the BLM then if they just sit there and let it happen. I was under the ASSUMPTION that the TRT was in the mood to kick in some doors and make some demands and technically kick a little ass.
[/quote]
When I suggested this I was told that the TRT has absolutely no say in things. They can listen to the BLM and nod their heads, but actually suggesting to the BLM that what they are doing is wrong was out of the question. They are, after all, just a review team.
Bull... Get with it and inform the BLM that the dune public thinks they SUCK!!!

BTW: What good are numbers from the BLM? They did no accurate count. I was there. There were no counters. Any BLM numbers will be nothing more then a wild guess... Something like the number 50,000 that I pulled out of my ass when asked how many people I thought were there.
More important is forcing the BLM to do something that we want. We want them to give us numbers, we need to make sure they do it. The numbers will be irrelevant, the important thing is that the BLM gives them to us.

DaPastor

[quote]pretty much your right Dunernr. That is exactly what could happen. Or they will use the excuse "see we should have charged 180 then we would have had more compliance and more enforcement."[/quote]

Although I believe you're probably right and that's exactly what they are going to say, just a couple of weeks ago we were assured by Neil Hamada that "We will not be reducing our enforcement and medical aid efforts for the big holiday weekends" (which would include Halloween) so it will be very hard for them to claim they didn't have enforcement on hand due to $90 versus $180. Not that they won't try though.

Dunernr, I understood what you were saying... we were all under the impression that with the increased fee came increased pass enforcement to help increase compliance. While I'm sure none of us feel our camping fees went for "nothing" we certainly have been expected some of that $90 to help pay to keep compliance up and next year's fees down.

Vicki

[quote]BTW: What good are numbers from the BLM? They did no accurate count. I was there. There were no counters. Any BLM numbers will be nothing more then a wild guess... [/quote]

I'm afraid you're probably right. But that's what we need to find out. With this fee increase came the promise of more accurate visitor counts.

What we want is what we were promised.

Vicki

Jeff-
Zero tolerance doesn't mean they will catch every person breaking the law, it means when they are aware of someone breaking the law, they will cite for the infraction and not just let it slide.
One thing I want to mention here though-I went back and read your original post and had forgotten since I first read it that you were not only concerned about being checked as you left, but all weekend. My last post was before I reread it and I responded thinking you were only speaking of noone there when you left-I apologize for that. I also wonder why you saw noone ever all weekend-didn't you go a day early also? My suggestion to you would be to email or call the BLM and express your concerns-remember, as Chuck said yesterday, you do not have to go through the TRT to talk to the BLM, and that is very true. I have picked up the phone many, many times to call them and ask a question or express a concern. While you're at it, why don't you see if they'll give you the #'s and reports everyone is asking for-maybe you'll score where everyone else has struck out

Julie

Keep up the complaints and the BLM will fence off the ISDRA and put in entry gates. :x

Then we ALL will know exactly how many vehicles have entered the ISDRA and we would have 100% fee compliance.

Oh yeah, I'm sure the TRT has the power to tell the BLM what to do and whenb to do it. :roll: I'm sure the TRT chairman, Jerry, has the power to tell the BLM to open up the closed areas and just doesn't feel like exerting that power. :roll:

The TRT is an advisitory board and has NO POWER to control the BLM. The TRT can only ask and must wait until the BLM responds.

Anyway, I bet most BLM employees are on days off after working the holiday weekend so I don't expect any replies so soon. Even if they were working, why would you expect the BLM to respond so quickly. If you have ever dealt with the government, you know they do nothing quick. :.(.

I heard from Neil Hamada @ the BLM. He is trying to get caught up from the weekend, his e-mailbox is full, his computer then crashed and he is trying to recover it.

Some of the questions he had answers to, but before I post them I want to follow up on a few things with Neil. I should be able to post a response tomorrow night (11/6/03). Please be patient I have a paying job too.

The TRT and the BLM have been working to arrange a conference call and are finalizing dates that will work for everyone. Tentative dates are within the next 15 days. I expect to post the selected date in a day or two.

As mentioned at the October meeting, the BLM El Centro Conference room will be available for duner users to attend. We are also working on other TRT members offices, etc to be a host as well.

Thanks for your comments and support.

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The TRT is an advisitory board and has NO POWER to control the BLM. The TRT can only ask and must wait until the BLM responds.

So then what's the point???

DaPastor

QUOTE

The TRT can only ask and must wait until the BLM responds.

So wouldn't you keep asking...

Who owns this land we're talking about?


Vicki

The Greenies???

QUOTE

Who owns this land we're talking about?