It sounds simple but there really is alot to consider about picking a new paddle tire for your sand machine. The size of the bike matters alot but also experience level, riding style, and intended purpose all play a part. Finally, everyone is different so preference will be the deciding factor in if you stay with one paddle over the other. This thread is intended as a reference for the new rider and the experienced rider alike.

Please keep replies as factual as possible.

Lets start with the most popular class of dirtbikes in glamis today, the 450 class. 450s make well over 40 rear wheel horsepower and with 240 pounds of machine to push around, the things rip! Most people will choose between an 8 paddle and a 10 paddle. Both have their advantages, both have their disadvantages and again, that preference thing plays a big part in what will work for you.

I love hookup. 4th gear wheelies are my thing and second gear front wheel in the air drag starts put a smile on my face. I like 10 paddles in other words. A 10 paddle will get you from the bottom of a slipface to the top in a hurry. Most experienced riders tend to like the traction a 10 paddle provides (But not all of them).

I usually recommend an 8 paddle to beginners as the extra slip an 8 provides acts as a cushion if you make a mistake. Grab a handfull with an 8 paddle and you have to try to get the front end up. The 8 will grip just fine and can be alot of fun sliding around the turns. Yes, you can still wheelie with the 8, you just have to try a little harder.

Got a 2 stroke 250 and want to throw on a paddle? Almost everyone agrees on 8 paddles. A 10 paddle bogs the bike down at higher speeds and will make your mosheen suck gas like crazy. 6 really isn't enough traction for the heavier riders a 250 will have.

How about a two stroke 125 or a 250 thumper? 6 paddles baby. The motors will pull this paddle easily and the lighter riders on these bikes can take advantage of having less drag at higher speeds due to the smaller amount of paddles. A 250F can handle an 8 with a super lite rider but there is still a trade off of traction at low speeds verses horsepower loss at high speeds.

Tire pressure in the dunes is alot different than in the desert or on the track. The sand naturally cushions us as we jump, pound whoops, or go off dropouts. As such, we can lower our air pressure and take advantage of the floatation a fatter and longer tire footprint will give us.

I recommend 8 psi front and rear to start unless your jumping big, will be traveling outside the sand, or you'll be in sand that has large rocks buried in it. A lower pressure up front will keep the tire from washing out in the turns. It will also keep the front tire from tracking all the other tracks out there and keep you pointing the way you want to go. Finally, a lower pressure just rides nice and cushy.

8psi in the rear will give you much better traction than the standard 12 or 15 psi. At 8 psi, the cups can conform to the sand a bit, grabbing instead of pushing. You can experiment with different pressures. I have gone down as far as 2 psi and as high as 15, setteling on 8 as a pretty good all around setting.

Finally, once you've figured out how many paddles you need, which manufacturer do you go with? There are two major design differences in current paddle tires. Molded rubber paddles like cheng shin and kings turbo (Skat Trak makes a molded design also), and the vulcanized rubber paddles that skat trak makes.

Vulcanized paddles just plain look cool to start. Skat Trak starts with a knobbie tire, shaves off all the knobs till the carcass is smoothed out, and vulcanizes the paddles onto the carcass. This gives Skat the ability to build a tire custom made for the bike. Skat can make a 9 paddle for you or even a 14 paddle. There are several different cup models available but most people recognize the hooker, a standard cup, and the viper, a reinforced hooker. Both cups seem to hook up as well as the other to me. These tires seem to last the longest, compared to molded tires. What will kill the cups are riding on hard surfaces or hitting the swingarm at high speeds. Tires elongate at high speeds and can contact the swingarm. These tires are always lighter than a molded tire as well. Skat traks usually have to be ordered though your local bike shop can get em for you.

Molded paddles are by far the most popular as well as cost effective tire. These are purpose built tires made by skat trak, cheng shin, kings turbo, and others. The molded tires, just like quad tires, are heavy. They work just fine though and traction between a molded and vulcanized tire is about the same, considering the amount of cups. Some molded tires have a rib or 2 added between the paddles to stabilize the bike in turns. I find that air pressure and paddle amount has more to do with tracking straight in a turn but some people swear by the ribs. Cups never wear out on these. They eventually start to rip off, sometimes in chunks. These tires are located all over and most cycle shops stock them.

A few things to remember when mounting your new paddle tire. You want about an inch between the cup tip and the swingarm. Centrifugal force will cause the paddle tire to grow at high speeds and once it contacts the swingarm, it will start to rip. Not a nice way to treat your expensive new paddle. You may need to ad chain links, buy a longer chain, or install smaller/larger gears to get the necessary space.

Also, trim your mudflap, allowing for suspension travel. The paddle will grab it and tear it off, sometimes with a part of the airbox. The best thing to do is to remove it all together and install a shock cover on the rear shock to keep sand from pitting the shock shaft.

Once you've picked a paddle tire, installed it, trimmed your mud flap, adjusted your chain, and smacked your girlfriend/wife on the butt (For luck), get out there and ride the thing! There is nothing like riding the dunes on a bike. If only the quad riders knew what it was like to get rid of the training wheels.

Good stuff there.

Also instead of trimming the mud flap. Remove it and put a shock cover on the shock. Ya its a pain to put on without removing the shock and costs a few bucks but oh well. I leave mine on all the time. Then take the flap off for dune rides.

And the Vulcanized paddles are going to be harder to get but not impossible. As I was told by the Skat Trak guy cause the EPA dosen't like the rubber coming off the tire. Also to if you want Skat trak to make you a Vulcanized tire you have to bring or ship them the tire and tell them what paddles and how many you want.

Another trick I used to do is remove your stock mudflap, and take a old liquid laundry detergent bottle and trace it out with a sharpie pen. Than cut it out, and you have a instant mudflap. Makes life easy!

Ah hell yeah this site rules just joined last night. Sweet write up man the psi question has plagued us for years. I used to rock 8psi too, but last season i was blowing tubes all the time. So i went up to 10-11 cold depending if it was morn or hot afternoon.

No more blown tubes which is cool, but the bike slides different ya know? It wants to slip out sooner and more abrupt with higher psi, which is kind of fun on a huge virgin sand hill just lay her over and carve a sick one.

What tires do you guys like best? Lately ive been running a turbo...110/90 8 cup. Dunlop 756rr in the front. Always wanted to pull a tire test but changing um sucks out there with all the sand. Hey you run reg tubes or the super heavy duty? Cool thread man cant wait next season!!

whats up with the intimidator never seen it before

Skat trak couldn't compete with all of the dirt cheap chinese made molded paddles like cheng shin and kings tire money wise so they came up with the intimidator for a low cost decent quality alternative to their vulcanized paddles.

I have one and really dig it. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't slide it, it slides just fine. It also seems to hold up crossing the washes and hardpack becacuse of the center ridges.

Welcome to the site
cdanz

Okay, add a twist to this.......... What about front tires? I ran stock for a long time, then I switched to the "mud and sand" (dunlop I think) tire thinking the longer, more space out knobbys wold be better. I do believe it is better than just a stock for the front.

This year I ran a "Kings" tire, that flat looking ribbed tire. Ugly thing it is!! But. I absolutly love it. Most people I talk to really don't like them. They say they track too much, turn too quick, etc. I think you need to be an aggresive rider to like this tire. It helped me in all aspects. From turning to jumping. I think it is much much more forgiving on landing in the soft slipfaces. It seems to not bury as much and keeps you from going over the bars once and a while. It really sucks to land a slipface and watch your front axle dissapear into the sand. Oh, and carving a corner just rocks with this tire!

Yes, running down sand highway it might try to chase a rut, but if I'm hauling a$$ my weight is so far back on the bike that it just doesn't matter.

Like I said, not sure a noob would like them because they are more aggresive but a good stablizer and that tire were my two best mods!

Oldschool: Your the first person I've ran into that liked em. My whole crew tried them and nobody still uses them. Myself, I had to drop down to 2psi before it would stop knifing into the soft sand hitting a soft uphill or even going down a slip face. It did wander also. Hell, I still have it and tried to give it away once and had no takers.

That's awesome it fits your riding style though. Glad they work for someone. I never felt comfortable and went back to the stock Dunlop D739 at 6-8 psi. I am now running the bridgestone soft terrain tire and like it.

hey ben, still got that front?
i was gunna buy one last season but we were sold out of them
and im to lazy to order myself one
lol

ktm 525 xcw here. 10 paddle skat trak viper. 8 psi as well. climbs hills like no other. 0 effort to wheelie it. twist the throttle and go...

i run a 10 on my 426
it hooks up like a dream cant keep the front end on the ground..
but is it harder on a 426 engine than a 450?

If your asking if the 10 paddle would put more strain on your 426 then on a 450, the answer is yes but not noticably so. An 8 paddle would put more strain on your 426 then a 450 also, just because the 450 makes a bit more power and can work less while doing the same amount of work.

In the long run though, the difference in the amount of wear to your engine would be barely noticable. You will make your engine last much longer by cleaning your air filter more often then you would by switching to an 8 paddle.

The wear and tear is on your tranny, chain and sprockets. Thats where you need to be worried about wearing out parts. That extra two paddles is a huge strain on that stuff. It's pretty obvious by the difference in hookup between a 8 and 10 scoop.

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment[at
tachment=264692:Pismo_80_XR_500.jpg]My 1980 XR 500 10 paddel first used at Pismo Glamis later 10 paddles proved to be a little much for stock motor back in 1980 500s were only putting out maby 26 HP or so. Switched to 8 paddles much better thoes were the days.

o ok thanks
i kinda figured that but o well
i wont have to worry about the air filter im anal about cleaning that ish
specially in glamis ill clean it maybe 2 or 3 times in a week out there

< - - - just switched to a 10 paddle on my CRF450. Started out around 12 psi and dropped it after a couple of rides. Hooks up like nobody's business. Loved it . . .

Has anyone had an opportunity to compare the Skat Trak hooker to the viper?

turning, top end speed, float?


Also is anyone running a 140 width rear tire with skat paddles?

I have ran both on my 99 YZ400F. I noticed no difference in handling between models. I think the viper will last longer as long as both tires don't hit the swingarm. My cups hit and tore up both paddles. I haven't seen a 140 sized paddle either. That thing would be mean. I think you would have clearance issues though. My 120 knobbie barely fits.

Thats a 12 paddle!!!!


I have always had big bikes...CR500, Ktm 525 (with a 576 kit) and now a 505XCF. I have always ran 10 paddles. The Skat-trak is all I will run now. I would tear up a chinese paddle in a couple trips. I had a Skat Trak Hooker on my 500 that lasted me almost 3 years, and it dry rotted which is why I swapped it for a new one. They are more expensive but last forever.

Very hard to beat a skat trak paddle they are tough.I ran them on my old dirtbikes and they lasted til i got rid of the bikes.And the one on my 500 is holding up well.

Nice...I think I put the paddle on that bike 3 years ago!

It looked like new when i got it off you i had a couple trips to the washes this year and got on the gas but the tire barely has the edges on the lip of the paddle a lil rough.Still looks good though i did put some time on that bike this year too done a couple runs where my brother takes his car and i will follow doing a fast run even done a parts run for him.LOL

Hmmm... Has anyone had Skat Trak make um a 9 Paddle Hooker? Was curious how it might run. I like the 8 Paddle Hooker but want more and Im just not sure Ill like the 10 Paddle...

Get a 10 and shave off one of the cups.




Here is the best input.

If you like to break the back wheel in and out of turns...get an 8 cup.

If you like it to hook up and really bite, get a 10 cup.

Regardless of what anyone says, a 10 cup works perfect on a 450 and will not burn your engine up. I have never run anything but a 10 cup and never had a problem on 2 450Rs. Plus...4 other friends run 10 cups on their 450s...no issues.

Love the Skat trak Hooker 10 on my YZ 450... Have run nothing but shaved Skat traks on any of my bikes since the 6 paddle on my 92 RM 125

Ok, remember who is asking! I was thinking of going to an 8 cup. My current paddle with 6 is worn out - I have ridges not so much an actual cup anymore. I know they make one size wider than my current tire, but Tony thinks we should go right to the 8 cup on the 250F. I'm concerned about the bolded part.....how much loss are we talking here?

It will be noticable Lena but I don't think you will mind too much. Your gas milage will go down slightly also but again, I don't think it will be a bog problem for you. Why do you want to get away from the 6 paddle? Was there too much slippage for you?

Have an 8 paddle on my 450 but noticed that the front end rarely comes up and that when I get in the soft stuff I often dig in. Probably need a bigger scoop. I like the idea of a 9 paddle. Still new to 2 wheels in the sand.

its digging holes too easy and not getting moving from a start very well i was told.

you think just going wider would help more?

I think it's too hard. What kinda pressure is being ran? Sounds like 10+. Try running 8psi.

We're still talking about paddle tires right?

i have no clue what psi she is running, think i should go brake in there garage and find out?

@ Danno. well right now the 6 paddle is done. The scoop isn't so much of a scoop and a little more like a ridge. So I'm sure that isn't helping. pressure - no idea. Tony eyeballs it, we need to buy a gage he can read that low a psi on.

We just thought of this - Tony has an 8 paddle from his cr250r, that he is now running on the 450. He already knows he wants to get the 10 cup, so I'm gonna snag the 8 cup and try it out on my bike. If I hate it I'll just buy a wider 6 cup.

Pretty much feel like what zilla said with his paddle. Digs into the soft stuff, I feel like it digs a hole before it really takes off. Could very well just be the terrible shape it is in too. I'll give the 8 cup a try since we'll have one anyway and see how I feel about it.

I'll say it again...

250 - 8 cup
450 - 10 cup

Don't argue or nuke it...just do it.

I've never been down to the Cali dunes yet but there must definately be a difference in the sand down there than up here in Oregon. I run a 16" rim and 150 streetbike tire with 12 Viper paddles on all my bikes including my sons KX250 and they just flat out haul ass. The 250 motor has no problem pulling the tire and my son pretty much keeps right up with my YZ450. I talked to a couple of guys from Cali this year at Dune Fest and they said the sand in Oregon was way different and alot harder to ride in.

has anyone ever ran a smoothie front tire? I know they make the ones with the rib but I'm wondering how a shaved down tire would do out there???

I ran an 8 cup on my CR500 for T-Day and i must say i prefer the 10 cup. Bike still did fine and I didn't have to focus as much on keeping the front end down (which is half the fun!).

I can't imagine a 12 cup on a CR250, seems like it would bog the motor down quite a bit from all that friction.

i run a 8 paddle on my 400 and it works just fine

ELEVEN!

Just ordered the AMS sand snake 10 paddle for my CRF450R. Im 6'4 240 lbs and pretty stoked to notice a difference from an 8 paddle.

Oh you will. Alot more hook up.