Carefull all you people that are posting non registration, it just tells them that what they are doing is working and there are a lot of people that need registration.

That is an inaccurate statement.


you could be sitting in camp minding your own business and they will drive in and start checking your reg. paperwork. That is messing with you.

Even if all of your paperwork is in order, just the fact that you are being contacted with no probable cause is what most people would consider "getting messed with."

I think it's a totaly acurate statement, who cares what most people think!! They can come in and check my camp anytime, I got nuthin to hide!

< agress with the naughtyboy

they are their to enforce the laws of the isdra which encompasses checking on people,camps,riders etc....just like they check for passes they are tasked to check everything on the books....they are welcome in any camp i make as well...its a tough job and they took it on and doing the best they can

It depends on your definition of getting messed with. If you have nothing to hide, and you're doing nothing wrong, then they come in and start hassling you for no reason, then you are getting messed with.


Just wait till they come into your camp and ticket you for litter that blew in from somewhere else. You'll start singing a different tune.

Joe and John You can have two kinds of encounters in camp the first is your friendly LEO stop and talk you invite them in and they chit chat about this and that and as they are about to leave they pull the ole Columbo move ........Oh by the way you do have your paper work in order right, Your response would be sure no problem let me get the stuff........
I don't realy like this kind of tactic but I can live with it.

Second is where your in your trailer taking a little nap and they roll in and start poking around not reay intruding but being nosey. Now somebody has woken you up to let you know we have company you exit the trailer and ask them the age old question can I help you ???? Now they are asking about the glass pace picante salsa jar your registration for the quads what are you burning in that smudge pot, If you have been drinking ect..ect...ect....


Would you realy be happy and all welcome to my house if they were doing this in your front yard ????? Then why would you not mind if they do it to your temporary home in the dunes?

because the only thing at the dunes that is "home" is the trailer everythng outside is federal land i understand that and accept that no problems for me....part of camping

Thats pretty much the differnce right there doncha think? Me and the bank own my home, and the property it sits on. I don't own the dunes, its public land, so I can deal with it! There are cool cops, and dickhead cops. The same applies to us duners.

Have you ever actually had either of these situations happen to you?? I can't say that i have.

But lets say they did roll up to my camp. They would see my pass in the truck, all my stickers current, and no glass or trash laying around. But lets say even after looking around, and see'n every single thing in order, they still wanted to knock on my trailer and have a look all around. Would i let them? Hell yeah, why not? I'm not doing anything wrong!!! So the worst posible thing that could happen, would be that a LEO, doing his job, found someone actually following the rules and doing everything right.

Now how bad could that be yano?? Maybe after dealing with all the azzwipes they come across, it might be a reminder to them that not every off-roader is bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God forbid that happen!!!!!!!

from what perspective? for the guy who got his stuff ripped off, their doing their job....so if someone is walking around my neighborhood and they make contact that is messing with ya? I call it good police work.
I dont get offended when they ask me for my id or my reg. So long as I hand over what the law says I have to, they check, and be gone.
Messing with ya is a stop, check, clean, but still detain you....
the cops have a hard job..kinda like the old saying that everyone who drives faster than you on the freeway is a jerk, and everyone slower is an asshat...well, look in the mirror then, which one are you to the next guy?

Am I glad they are checking? Sure. I hope they find someones stolen stuff.




The issue I have is PC or lack of it. Many here post that it is ok to come into their camp and check- they have nothing to hide. Fine. Is it ok for the PO PO to pick and choose which laws they enforce or abide by? PC is also a law. It is there to protect citizens from unlawful search and seizure. Why dont they have to abide by that?

No one likes to get contacts from ‘The Man’. Admittedly, the very few I’ve had at the ISDRA have been positive. They are welcome to come into my camp and check my registrations and write what ever tickets they like. I can then contest the ones I feel I am innocent of.

Have I seen some chicken S**T stuff from Ranger/ICSO Rick? Yes. A very few. OTOH, I’ve seen far more legitimate contacts then BS ones.

LEO’s writing tickets, performing stops, making contacts. That’s what these guys are PAID TO DO!! This next weekend, the ISDRA becomes equivalent to a city with a population between 100,000 to 250,000 (Depending on whose numbers you wish to believe) where 99% of the people there are in ‘PLAY MODE’. How many contacts/tickets etc would you expect a police force to have in a city of 175,000 on a daily basis?

There are police writing tickets on our roads and freeways, with their radar guns etc all the time. Why, when it happens at Glamis, we feel like we are being singled out?

I've said it before, but I'll repeat it again.

If I'm driving around and there is PC for a stop, then fine, check my reg, ask if I'm drunk, etc.

But when they come into camp, it feels like they are coming to my home. I know it is different, but that's what it feels like. I don't want cops knocking on my door for no reason, just to see what's in my garage or to check my reg. That's why they DON'T do that, for now. But I'm fully expecting jack booted thugs roaming the neighborhoods within the next 4 yrs, based on who the morons elected for prez.

See the difference?

Someone driving around, if there is PC or a stop = OK by me.

Sitting in camp, not doing anything illegal, no PC = smacks of over enforcement and harassment.



And while we're on the topic of right and wrong, I want to see the rangers start running proper sized whips with flags on their vehicles. I find it beyond ludicrous that they should be writing up hundreds of citations for no whip while violating a SAFETY regulation themselves. If a flag on a whip is a safety item, then by all means, they should be flying a flag on a whip.

God forbid they ever get hit by someone who did not see them due to their lack of proper safety equipment.

I'd also like to see them get some training in proper driving, or better yet, make them personally pay for any damage incurred to their vehicles. I watched a ranger driving an SUV. He spotted a quad doing about 20 mph in the 5 mph area behind the GBS. He took off after this quad doing at least 40 mph (in a 5 mph area) and nearly ripped the entire front spoiler and bumper off of the vehicle, because he should have known better than to take a stock vehicle like that through that area at those speeds.

Even if he did manage to cite the speeder, I'm sure that ticket wouldn't begin to cover the damage done to the vehicle.

very valid points IMO socal....

This is always going to be a contentious issue and everyone has an opinion...
But you ask, "has this ever happened to you?" and I can say, yes. I have had an experience.
I was at Wash22 and it was during the daytime and there was little or no activity in camp. I think it was after an EPO.
One cop came into camp and was fairly friendly but quite insistant. He was not conversational and only asked stratigic questions.
"Hi, are you all legal? How many people in camp? Any drinking?" ect.
As he was asking his buddy (who kind of snuck into camp) started going from OHV to OHV checking things. The first cop stood there on the edge of camp with his hand on his gun asking self-incriminating question after self-incriminating question.
After a while it became clear what he was doing. They were systematically shaking down our camp. Once this was clear then our attitude went downhill. No longer was this a friendly visit from an officer but now it was the equivelant of being pulled over on the highway.
Tense...
Obviously the cops found nothing and we sent them on their merry way but the whole time they were in camp I felt threatened, my dog was highly upset and I cannot get the image of that cop with his hand on his gun out of my mind.

Now remember... We did nothing wrong and were not sited. We did nothing to draw attention to ourselves and in the end this innocence was proven out by the fact that we were not sited.

So, should I be happy about this activity?
Bullcrap.

Yes Sir...I am 100% pure, blue blood American...

Considering the proximity to the border, they might as well go camp to camp checking for citizenship. Since they check for it on the fwy miles away from the border, it only stands to reason that it would be prudent to check for citizenship this close to the border.

It's supposed to be on a permanent part of the vehichle in the left rear area.

WTF? We live in the U.S., not fooking 1940's Germany or 1980's South Africa. We should feel free to move about without fear of illegal search and seizure. Randomly going to your campsite and asking for your "papers" is as ridiculous as randomly targeting your neighborhood and going door to door. It is just not the American way. It is an obvious abuse of power, and those who are okay with it fall under good old Franklin's warning: "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."

Stands to fooking reason. And we don't want to hear the self-righteous "they can check me anytime, I have nothing to hide... " BS. It isn't about having "something to hide." Pay attention. Feel the palpable, genuine fear. It is much deeper than that...

My .02

now lets say you let then in and they find a roach in your trash can in your bathroom. lets say someone in camp had a g/f who had to pee and your a nice guy and let her use your restroom. you have no clue if someone else left something in there.


I KNOW people i camp with do things that aren't legal. they aren't bad people. I don't do that stuff. but in a night of partying in the dunes 30+ people have been in and out of my trailer to do shots or whatever and i dont know all of them or what they may or may not have left that i have never found in the 40 some odd trips to the desert my trailer has taken....or the previous owners could have left something.


but guess what, if they find something its all on you. big gamble. i guarantee you at least one person who smokes weed in the dunes has been in your trailer. only takes a seed to set a dog off.

that is why you have the right to decline a search even if you have done nothing wrong, and that is why i decline searches.

VERY well said. We had almost the same scenario one trip. A couple amped up, high and mighty LEOs did the same, and when my Mom(who happens to be a lawyer) questioned if there was anything that we did wrong, she was almost pushed and told to "back up". Not cool, we are there to have a good time, and have been for the past 25 years, which is longer then most of them have been employed but such job. Hell back when my parents started going to the dunes, everyone was driving Dodge vans pulling flatbeds with 90s and 110s stacked on them. You didnt have to wear helmets, didnt have to have flags, and the more people you could get on one the more fun it was. The dunes/rules have come a LONG ways, and for the good of safety, and sport. But, I will say that the LEOs have gotten way out of hand, just a little too power happy. We dont go on there Alaskan cruise vacation and piss in there Cheerios, so IMO they dont have the right to ruin ours. The line of doing there job, and being antagonistic is becoming very blurry.

While I agree with the "just doing their job" statement...I disagree with you on owning the land, it contradicts what you've been saying about YOUR public land . It's owned by the US government...a government for the people by the people.

So, this land is in fact your land and it's my land, from Kalifornia to the New York island

Life is rough everyone is looking to make more money in these hard times even LEO. At least i still get to go to G and play life could be worse but i see harder times coming as the buget gets slimmer.

Don't get me wrong with the post. I don't always agree with what the LEOS do in the desert. I was stopped twice on one ride for some pretty BS reason like not crossing the road at 90 degrees. Well when you start across the find there is no place to get off at 90 degrees you kinda have to move somewhere. Then getting stopped for drving on the side of the road because my rail's paddle was flat and not moving in the sand. Anyway, the stops for an improper whip mount thats BS but as for approaching you in your camp this is my understanding of it...

Your trailer is your property but the camp area is not. Just because you made the circle with your friend's rigs does not make the area in between safe from search and seizure. You are still on government land. As for them walking into your camp and asking for your papers. No PC is required. They can walk into the area because everyone has free access to it. (Just like if someone wants to ride right through your circle they can. In fact if someone wanted to make a kiddie track inside of your camp they could and have no legal recourse). Then they engage you in a consensual contact and ASK you for your papers. Most of us are law abding duners so we get our papers. Could you refuse to get you papers. YES, well maybe not your parking permit but registration paperwork. Is this the smartest thing to do. NO. If you refused and they pushed it to the next level they are going to have huge problems in court. However, if you do refuse and they let it go then I am sure you well be a target for enforcemtn the rest of the weekend. BS absoutley. but unfortunatley that is a reality. Now they will use BS PC to pull you over. BS as it may be it is still PC and then the stop can go downhill real fast. Where it ends could mean jail time or huge tickets just because you wanted to get into a pissing match at the begining.

I must have ran into the same A-hole. Very simular experience in our camp, except my friend was cited for not having a pass for his wifes Dodge Durango. He had one for the Moho, but she drove out the next day, and at the time no knew it was needed for that vehicle, lesson learned.

It was the officer ATTITUDE towards us. We were all treated like criminals. He acted as though one of us was about to pull a gun and have a gun fight.

How many times has an officer been fired upon in Glamis?

If he was down in South San Diego at 3:00am then I could see this type of behavior.

they are always there,
until you need one!

Like when your buggy gets stolen out from the dunes

My take is that with the State and local budgets strapped for cash like they are if they (the ICSO) are going to put all these LEOs out there then they damn well better bring in as many citations as they can to justify the cost of having them there. I saw more LEOs this past Holloween at Gordon's than all the other times at the dunes combined. These LEOs are undoubtedly under stiff pressure to issue citations, and they will do whatever it takes to meet their quotas, including rolling into camps because that's where the money citations are. Also, I have a hunch that the greenies and whoever else is sore about us using the dunes are contributing funds to insure the ICSO can have as many LEOs out there as possible just to harrass the off-road community.

As far as probable cause goes......as far as walking into a camp on PUBLIC land, they don't need any. No different than if you were at the beach. That being said, there are also some variables that must be involved when out on BLM and/or ISDRA areas. Otherwise, they would need some form of PC to make a legal stop. Finding PC is generally pretty easy though.

I guess luckier than most of the people that post here because we've had (2) contacts with LEO's in all my years of going to the deserts of Barstow, Superstition, Ocotiilo Wells and Glamis. One was when my son's whip broke and we were pulled over by a BLM ranger as we were heading for Sweet Marie's. He said "cool' and we were on our way. The other was last year when the idiots in our group had a stack of pallets waiting to be burned in camp. A deputy came into camp and gave them a verbal dressing down, which they deserved, and then drove off. I actually wish he would have wrote them a ticket because they deserved one!! So that's two contacts and two warnings.

The bottom line is like others have said, there are cool LEO's and there are jerk-off LEO's. The same goes for duners and desert people. I see more trash and people acting like asshats at Olds than all the other desert places I go combined. I'ma staunch conservative but the one left wing/kooky concept I've always believed in is *karma*. If you're one of the people getting screwed with all the time, there's probably a good reason for it. Based on the way people "talk" on here sometimes, I'm sure of it.

While you may be right about pressure from above to write citations for whatever reason, QUOTAS ARE ILLEGAL in the State of California. It's a good thing too or I may be out of job since I write about 3 tickets a month. I'm big on verbal warnings nowadays.

I don't know what the fines are for most of the violations in Glamis but I can tell you that for your standard violations in San Diego County, the city will LOSE money when you fight the ticket.

Well... I'm a good guy... and I believe in Karma...

I guess the LEO at Gordons who threatened to shoot me for standing where he told me to stand must have been one of the aforementioned jerk-off LEOs.

[quote name='big had' date='Nov 20 2008, 06:38 AM' post='3066400']
wow, sounds like its getting goofy with the leo's..but then again, people get their (_|_) kicked at vendors row for no apparent reason???? Where are these stops being done mostly? Olds, the drags, vendors row? Basically, the hang out joints, or are they stopping folks in the dunes? I am seriously asking.....cause I dont like to be stopped either.....but, it is what it is...maybe on a light side it will turn the place around...i remember when palm springs was the college easter week hang out..until the riots happened a few years in a row..then there was a cop on every street corner. And you would get a ticket for spitting, stepping off the curb before the walk sign lit up...man..it was bad..
2 years later there was no more college kids going there....
Palm springs is a nice place on easter..and very few cops .....now a days.......
[/quote

I live in palm spring, and if you notice three out of four bussinesse are empty.
Thats what happened when they stopped spring break in palm springs.
A few years later they were adverticing them to come back. But it never happened.
Now the city is suffering more than ever.
That is were glamis is heading with there gustafo harrasing type tactics.

I live here too and lived here during those times.
Now all you get is a big gay "white party" with non stop debauchery of sexual deviants.
And the shoppes are closed.
I agree that they are trying to deter everybody and even I have been having the evil thought lately.
Its just not fun anymore if I am always watching constantly what I do.
And dont give me the Dudley Doright speech either.

We are getting the fun enforced out of Glamis.

Lived in Palm Springs for 25 yrs and boy do i remember those spring breaks downtown. I've never seen glamis get that crazy but i have only been going or 4 yrs. Bottomline is that now they are going to be checking for everything so get your stuff in order.

We camp in the washes....far down the washes for over 20 vears. I have never had a ranger come to camp until this Thanksgiving. It was just our group and they made the trek out to where we were. I have never even bought a pass....until this year with the warnings of the new law crackdown. All bikes and buggies leagal and no problems.

Then by your theory, anyone who gets hit and killed by a drunk driver or contracts pancreatic cancer, must have done something really bad to deserve it.


I subscribe to the theory that sometimes, bad things happen to good people for no reason at all.

That's a pretty far reach to come up with that theory.....

I have always looked forward to my first trip to glamis for years, and now that it is within reach, im no longer sure it will be worth all the money it is going to cost to get the quad registered, trailer registered, etc and all other costs involved to drive 1500 miles only to get harrassed and end up possibly getting fines etc. Hell I can ride sand within 2hrs of my house (little sahara OK) without having to have everything registered and no hassle from the law

Don't get caught up in a lot of the hype. I have been going to Glamis every season for 10 years straight and was there when I was in a car seat. As long as your property is legaly listed as your property and you go to ride and enjoy yourself you will not have any problem. People in our camp have gotten tickets hear or there but not one ticket was for no reason. I think the biggest was $120. I have never got one. Don't ride double, don't bring pallets or glass and have a pass. You will enjoy it and want to get back as soon as you can.

You don't have to have everthing registered!!! IF you state does not require it you need to buy the off road sticker and have some proof you own what you have. Pictures of the build, sales receipt bill of sale.
I called the LEOs and that is what they said.
I live in Nevada and no registration available for offroad vehicles.
Just a California offroad sticker $30.00 and a copy of the receipts for the buildup.
Chris

I bet there is more to this story....

Why, They never threatened to shoot you?

There's no place like Glamis...
It will be worth the trouble.

That for dam sure!!

Dirtplay1975,

I have always looked forward to my first trip to glamis for years, and now that it is within reach, im no longer sure it will be worth all the money it is going to cost to get the quad registered, trailer registered, etc and all other costs involved to drive 1500 miles only to get harrassed and end up possibly getting fines etc. Hell I can ride sand within 2hrs of my house (little sahara OK) without having to have everything registered and no hassle from the law I have always looked forward to my first trip to glamis for years, and now that it is within reach, im no longer sure it will be worth all the money it is going to cost to get the quad registered, trailer registered, etc and all other costs involved to drive 1500 miles only to get harrassed and end up possibly getting fines etc. Hell I can ride sand within 2hrs of my house (little sahara OK) without having to have everything registered and no hassle from the law

I live within two hours of LS also, GLAMIS is worth the drive, we go everey Prez day and the week before, the LEOs are only doin theie job (some are a little over the top, but it's mostly in response to some folks acting the fool). Keep in mind that at LS you pay daily camping and $7 a day to ride. the fees are actually cheaper at Glamis. and buddy the drive is worth it (monster dunes!!!). We will get there 02-05 or 06-2009 and will camp at Gecko (under the Okie flag.
Tim

I also live in oklahoma now and have made a few trips to glamis and I am now working on getting stationed there. The dunes are unbelieveable and the riding never ends the big dunes at ls are the dunes I take my kids to play on at glamis words cannot express the way you will feel when your there and the stupid things you see which is no different than snake hunt at ls.

make sure to take gas and beer and something to lock it up with it is open camping and people will drive inbewteen your hauler and the next. If you dont act like an idiot you should be fine.. HAVE FUN

I have read and read so many threads on these issues..and really dont know if i agree with what the LEO's are doing, or in some cases I question the legality of what their doing. But one thing i do feel strongly about..we will not create change by butting heads, resisting, or otherwise being outside the law. This will create justification for their behaviors. The law gives them a lot of exemptions..these are written laws by our governing bodies..not by the dude in your presence wearing the uniform.
So get over their exemptions...quit complaining about it. Vote to change it if you dont like it, but i dont think giving them a hard time, failure to cooperate, or any other advice that may get others arrested or jacked is sound advice.
If they drew guns on me,i would follow their commands, period. At some point I may ask, "hey buddy, what do you need to do to stop pointing that gun at me?" then I'd comply.
We need to remain calm, cooperative, and polite. We will have our day in court if we choose.
Pretend that a video is on you, and ask yourself, how do you want the judge to view you? See you? Then behave that way.
2 wrongs dont ever make a right, and the boy with the badge is already more right than you in the court room.
I will continue to support the law, and i will continue to keep my temper, my attitude, and my demeanor in line.
I will not give the leo's a reason to hit me, tase me, or shoot me.
I will press hard on their three copies, and i will be mad, sure. But I will maintain my composure. And when i sleep at night, I'll be an adult. Did i know i was breaking the law? If not, is there such a law? Regardless, i will man up to my behaviors and my outcomes. Even if it seems chickencrap. i do know the rules, and I should follow them all the way to the technical aspect if that be the case.
We have all read the cops in glamis are being technical..so be warned mates....
but at the same time, own up to your behavior...grow up and be an adult.

By the way, i have not received a ticket in glamis in over 30 years of going there..and i do T day for 12 days EVERY year....they stop by and visit..and move on........without a scratch in their trophy case.....

We went from Glamis to Parker this past weekend and a Park Ranger from Joshua Tree approached us as we were stopped taking a rest. He first stopped about 50 yards away and then drove up and got out. He had his hand on what I thought was his gun the whole time. He asked us where we were going and if we knew where the park boundaries were. He asked us about the buggy and the quad on BLM lands but admitted he had no jurisdiction to enforce any laws because we were not in the park. He stood off from us and I initially took off my hat and sat down on a buggy tire to be less threatening because he looked nervous.

His only concern was that we knew where the park boundaries were and that we were not planning on driving through the park. I explained our route and that we were aware of where the boundaries were. He told us to have a good time.

As he walked away I noticed that his hand was on his radio. His gun was on the other side.

relax a little

hey Steve (MAC), its Steve i come to glamis with Frank (nextasex). i was also worried about this issue with the LEOs and BLM getting real strict. my cousin Anto (yellowpasta) and i were pulled over right near the compound with out flags because we genuinely forgot to put them in place. we even had the quick release mounts on teh quads and we were right next to camp. the LEO, his name is Masad, still wrote us both up on 12/26/08. we were really polite and we said it was an honest mistake, our camp is a few hundred feet away, we have at least 7 whips at camp, but he still wrote us up... Anto said his fine was $240 + $25 for proof of fixing problem, i havnt got mine yet... $265 is just outrageous for not having a whip.

Steve.

that is more than outrageous...plain robbery if you ask me....

One of my Picacho camping buddies is a higher up in ICSO, I think he's in charge of the Gordon's/Buttercup area. I've asked him about this a few times and the standard answer he gives me is that it's a tactic (zero tolerance) to try to keep all of the nonsense down on big weekends. They WILL NOT let it get to how it used to be again.

He's a stand up guy and is into the sand/desert as much as the rest of us.