This is a press release from Union Pacific Railroad regarding the fence along Wash Road.

Seems that Lupe Valdez would be the UP person to contact on the Questions that the TRT Team and BLM could not answer at last fridays meeting.

Every year 1800 people are hit by trains. How many at Glamis? How many other railroad sections across the country have fences?

Stoping sand? No way. I'd love to see the research that shows sand being stopped by fences

1800? Maybe the CBD should shut down the RR...

Not to mention the fence is lower than the tracks...

CBD would shut the RR down if it was 1800 animals or bugs but people? Fat chance!

Please if your going to piss in my boots don't try and convince me it's raining.

Please.. dont kill the messenger.... were just forwarding communications as we get them... ASA, BLM, TRT, GD.com, etc... and many other are working very hard to try and bring this to a resolution that both sides can live with.

If you feel strongly about a situation, please.. please.. come to the meetings and ask your questions, voice your concerns, etc..

Thanks for posting the info

good one mwb

The fences do stop the sand, the tracks to el' centro would be unpassable with out them. And if they keep the drunk jack gluteous maximuses away from the trains then thats a side benifit. I have had so many near hits around mp 700. Every session some at least one person is hit. between mp 685 and 710 and there is not a worse feeling then barreling down the tracks hoping that the car / person/ whatever is going to get out of the way.. most people are not aware of the serious danger that comes with 10,000 tons going 65 mph

Thanks for posting...

I think the RR is just trying to cover their arses from the deaths that have occurred on the tracks. Although the frequency of deaths on train tracks are not as high in the dunes as other populated areas, it is still their responsibility (according to the public) to do something about it. An interesting statistic would be how many of those 1800 were suicides and how many accidents.

I think if 'we' as duners would have stayed off the tracks to begin with... this project wouldn't have happened for another couple years! I still don't get how the fence I have seen from pictures is going to help keep the sand off the tracks... I think they would have had better results if they placed the fence closer to the tracks... and it would have kept Wash Rd. open. Sounds like a win/win!

Thanks for all those responsible people that fight for our right to recreate...

I'd LOVE to see the Enviromental Impact Study that the RR had to do to get this "sand fence" approved??? we can't even rake over the ground to pick up litter, but they can dig a fence and NO ONE sees scientist or the lovely CBD out there watching over their shoulder? I smell a big pile of somewhere. and SAND FENCE???? Are those people that stupid or do they think that WE are that stupid to believe that ? are they going to do? Build a big protective bubble over the tracks? Someone should have told all of the execs to come on out to Mother G during a good breezy (not even windy, just breezy) day and let's really think about how ANY fence is going to "protect" the tracks?

I still think that power in numbers is the only way to beat/work around this thing. Since they are "working" with the BLM, and I do think Neil H is a good guy that does all he can for us, why not bombard the RR rep w/ well put together, professional letters? Include the history that you and yours have at Glamis, send pics, lets all sign a petition and submit to BOTH the RR and BLM? We gotta do something here, and since the BLM is pointing to the RR and saying their hands are basically tied, and the RR saying they are working w/the BLM, looks like we gotta try and work w/ both of them.

And if they really DID do EIS (which I either think was done on the sly or someone slipped it thru if it was done at all) then lets hire that EIS group to do another EIS for US! We can get a NEW Wash Road graded ASAP! I guess the RR land, is their land, but lets get moving on trying to get new Wash Road done!!!!

My comment was not intended to the messenger it was toward the one trying to make me feel all warm and fuzzy about a fence and Glamis don't need a imajinary fence let alone a real one.

The fence will stop a small amount of sand and become a sand bump that bump stops more sand . and you end up with a small dune as high as the fence. ( thats how it works on the el centrol line)

I know we all have had to dig out folding chairs that have blow over and been covered in sand. the rail is no different. The truth is your talking about saving time and convenience. UP is talking about saving thier money and maybe some fellow duners lifes. you don't reall have much to bring to the table on this one.

side note this is happening all over L.A they are building over passes or closing roads .

"Operation Lifesaver" A National campaign......
That's pretty scary.
That will give them plenty of power to do what they want.

Ahh.. ok.. Understood. =) No harm, no foul, no offence taken...

Point taken.


However, the RR could have placed the fence on the other side of wash road to have the same effect. Also, this press release BEFORE starting construction as well as having a rep as requested at last weeks meetings would have served the community's interests better.

and ya wonder why the ASA and TRT dont post on here...

ASA board as of this morning didnt have any info from fridays TRT meeting.

Regardless of why the fence is going in.....it's their property. They can do what they want on their property. The only requirement for a permit is if the fence is over 6' tall.....and it's not.



If anyone sat through the sand storm this past Saturday and watched the sand blow for 2 minutes would have seen why this 'little fence' will help keep sand from the tracks.

The most important issue....BLM is going to do what they can as fast as they can to secure access for us.

I concour. Great seeing you Vicki!

As far as it being their property and doing what they want with it, I was under the impression that private property was subject to the same environmental rules and regulations as public lands. In fact, recalling numerous lawsuits stopping people from building on their own property, I'm sure of it.

So if the BLM has to have a trained tortoise spotter to supervise construction of a wash rd, then the railroad must have a trained trtoise spotter to construct a fence 5 ft away. It's not like the tortoises know the difference between public and private property and live only on public land.

You are correct that they don't owe us access to the washes, and we have no right to demand anything from them. I certainly hope as a good neighbor that they allow us continued access to the dunes until a new wash rd can be graded, however long that process takes.

And don't think for a moment that they're project isn't going to be gone through with a fine-tooth comb.

If they didn't dot an i or cross a t, it will be found.

It was great to see you too Shawn! Hopefully next time we'll have a few more minutes to catch up!

its just another way to pass the buck.... let them build their "sand fence" I cant wait till the thing fills up and cars derail....

Great Quote!

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.
A) It's not their land. They are granted right of way and availability of land up to 100' from the centerline of the tracks. This is not a "ownership" situation anymore than the BLM "own" the ISDRA.
B) Their rights on "their" land only extends as far as it does not infringe on my rights on "my" land. I cannot, for example, build a wall on my property that causes the water to run into my neighbors property in a distasterous way.

Unlless your the RailRoad they are a special interest that is so special that they get what they want when and where they want they rarely need to pull permits to build on there right of ways need no approval from city goverment to build inside there domain and when they need power they just tap onto one of there power lines.
Also if they were to close off wash road to us they would not be keeping you out of the ISDRA they just would be making it difficult for you to reach a destination not impossible just difficult.

I'm confused....are you saying that the land beneath the tracks and 100' from the center line on both sides aren't theirs? It is my understanding that Union Pacific owns that property. It's not a land lease from the federal government.

i think vic is right bro....

UP's route map covers most of the central and western United States west of Chicago and New Orleans. As of 2005, UP operates on 32,426 miles (52,185 km) of track, of which it owns outright 26,949 miles (43,370 km), both numbers representing the highest amount of any railroad currently operating in the United States.^[3][4] It has achieved this size thanks to purchasing a large number of other railroads, notably the Missouri Pacific, Chicago and North Western, Western Pacific, Missouri-Kansas-Texas, and the Rio Grande (including the Southern Pacific). Currently, Union Pacific owns 26% of Ferromex while Grupo Mexico owns the remaining 74%.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific

Real estate holdingsUnion Pacific Railroad is the largest landholder west of the Mississippi River and is second only to the United States government in overall landholdings within the United States.^[5]

Somebody in the UP failed on this deal..
A sand fence to make a sand hump means its set up to fail over a period of time. How long? Dont know, thats mother natures decsion.
The use of Iron with todays technology is crazy, expensive, and wastefull. The use of polimers etc would have been much less money and far less wastefull.
A fence to keep people off the tracks thats set 100' from the tracks with huge openings at each wash doesnt prevent anything.
If access is granted to us and the fence is there - They just bought the farm if the tragic event of a de-railment happens. That fence will trap people in that 100' area and not allow then to run for saftey. I smell liability in this one.
If the fence was truely to keep people off the tracks, what they started last year with that fence on the East side of the road would have worked fine. But that was short lived and pulled out. Again expensive.

Last month it was a sand fence. This month its a sand fence AND a deterrant to keep people away from the tracks.. Next month when its nearing completion will it become a closed area also?

From the limited research I've done thus far.

Right-of-Way(s) are covered under the Federal Land Policy And Management Act of 1976 (43 USC Sec. 1701 et. seq)

BLM's authority regading the same is codified under 43 CFR Part 2300.0 et. seq

Unless Patented (ownership of lands transfered from the US to the applicant), the Right-of-Way lands are still "owned" by the United States.

I'm not sure that any "EIS" is necessary in this matter, as there is other environmental document instruments available to consider the effects of the action. The National Environmental Policy Act ("NEPA") and the implementing regulations via the
Council on Environmental Quality ("CEQ") guide this federal process and the same applies to all federal agency's.

The question that needs to be answered here is: Does the Railroad have "patent" to the lands in question? or... is the lands still owned by the United States?

An answer to the this question could lead to more legal questions, but for now, I'd suggest someone look into this before we proceed.

If it makes you guys feel any better they are doing this all along the coast line where there are tracks !If you have ever been to Pismo and drove by Santa Claus lane in Carpinteria they just installed a "sandfence" right next to the RR tracks on the beach there ! I live and work on the central cal coast near vafb we have coastal sand dunes that are among the railroad tracks! All along the area there are these sand fences they do work! I am just telling u guys what i see I am not sticking up for the RR.............