Glen, and other TRT members.
I have said in the past that I've felt that the TRT were just shills for the BLM and then later I saw Lobuck asking if I thought "He" was just a shill...
I strugled with that statement because I respect LoBuck greatly and respect the job he is attempting to do by being a member of the TRT, but I still believe that the TRT is nothing more then an orginization that the BLM can use to give credibility to the crap that they pull...
I found a quote that explains my stand:
Full Version: Clarifying The "trt Are Shills For The Blm" Commen
| QUOTE |
| Despite the rough start of the fee demo program at Imperial, it is currently a successful fee demo project, largely due to the partnership with the Imperial Technical Review Team (TRT). In 1997, the California Desert Advisory Council established the TRT to assist the BLM with the implementation of the fee demo program. Eleven individuals–representing Imperial County, Yuma County, State of AZ, CA DAC, San Diego Off Road Coalition, CA OHV Commission, BLM dunes patrol volunteers, CA Off Road Coalition, and a non-affiliated member–comprise the TRT. The TRT advises BLM on funding priorities for fee demo money and represents an important link to the various elements of the user community. The partnership with the TRT lead to the “Checker Flag” program, whereby riders display a checkered flag on their vehicles symbolizing support for the BLM, the rules for the area, and the fees. In early 2001, the TRT spawned an independent non-profit organization, the American Sand Association. When a settlement agreement associated with the Desert-wide lawsuit forced the closures of certain sections of Imperial, the American Sand Association organized a 300-person volunteer effort to install signs. Although the organization and its members oppose the closures, they believed that getting the notification signs in place was essential to keeping the general area available for OHV use and committed to help. The partnership’s work with BLM to accomplish the signing served as a high point for BLM personnel on the ground. |
I believe this is off of a BLM website... I stole it from a Jason Hitesman post.
But this shows just how the BLM use the TRT for their own purposes.
"It is successful ... largely due to the partnership with the TRT"...
This signals to the public that the BLM are asking the "duners" what will work... That is not what is happening at all. The BLM rarely listen to the TRT, according to reports. To hear Mr. Jowdy talk it seems like the TRT sits back and does what the BLM tell them!
So, I know that the TRT members have a much better perspective on this. I hope that they can convince me that what they say is one: their true and actual opinion. And two: The BLM are actually listening and posibly even implementing those opinions.
To sumerize... I, in no way want the TRT members to think that I do not appreciate what they are trying to do. It is just that I do not belive that the BLM really give a crap and in the meantime, the existance of a "TRT" is being used by the BLM to convince the "public" that there is "public input" into the draconian policies that are being passed by the BLM.
The Pastor
| QUOTE (The Pastor @ Jan 30 2004, 12:44 PM) |
| It is just that I do not belive that the BLM really give a crap and in the meantime, the existance of a "TRT" is being used by the BLM to convince the "public" that there is "public input" into the draconian policies that are being passed by the BLM. |
Not just the public, but they they also use it to convince their superiors that there is "public" input.
Vicki
VoR not sure if you read the rest of my post that came from....
But that page is something the TRT has repeated complained to the BLM about because it's full of misleading and outright false information.
Things like the history of the checkered flag program, what the checkered flag program is about, how the ASA was started, and how people have reacted to fees are all misrepresented on that page.
I know the first time that page was brought up on the ASA board it caught the then members of the TRT completely by surprise and they sent some angry letters to the BLM state office demanding it be fixed. Of course BLM being BLM nothing happened.
Personally I don't think the TRT can do much - but that's not their fault it's the BLM's. I respect the TRT and it's members and what they're trying to do - but unfortunatly it's an impossible task because the BLM is not holding up their end of the bargain. But that's hardly the TRT's fault. They can kick and scream all day long and it still won't change the BLM. Calling the TRT shills because the BLM dosn't listen to them is hardly fair in my book.
But that page is something the TRT has repeated complained to the BLM about because it's full of misleading and outright false information.
Things like the history of the checkered flag program, what the checkered flag program is about, how the ASA was started, and how people have reacted to fees are all misrepresented on that page.
I know the first time that page was brought up on the ASA board it caught the then members of the TRT completely by surprise and they sent some angry letters to the BLM state office demanding it be fixed. Of course BLM being BLM nothing happened.
Personally I don't think the TRT can do much - but that's not their fault it's the BLM's. I respect the TRT and it's members and what they're trying to do - but unfortunatly it's an impossible task because the BLM is not holding up their end of the bargain. But that's hardly the TRT's fault. They can kick and scream all day long and it still won't change the BLM. Calling the TRT shills because the BLM dosn't listen to them is hardly fair in my book.
| QUOTE |
shill n. One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle. |
That hardly describes someone who tries to do the right thing but is perpertualy stymied by the people they have to go though to get it done.
You make my point better then I do, Jason.
You are correct, SHILL is the wrong term...
The TRT members are for the most part attempting to accomplish something that would be great, if there was any chance of anything being accomplished. I commend and respect them for that.
It is the BLM who are using the TRT as... maybe a better term would be "tool of propoganda" in order to give "legitamacy" to some of their actions.
It annoys the hell out of me when the BLM do something and then tell the public that it was done "in partnership" with the TRT.
But, the main thrust and reason for my making this post is just that I want to explain that my beef is with the BLM, not the members of the TRT.
The Pastor
You are correct, SHILL is the wrong term...
The TRT members are for the most part attempting to accomplish something that would be great, if there was any chance of anything being accomplished. I commend and respect them for that.
It is the BLM who are using the TRT as... maybe a better term would be "tool of propoganda" in order to give "legitamacy" to some of their actions.
It annoys the hell out of me when the BLM do something and then tell the public that it was done "in partnership" with the TRT.
But, the main thrust and reason for my making this post is just that I want to explain that my beef is with the BLM, not the members of the TRT.
The Pastor
Thanks Brian, that means a lot to me. I have a great deal of respect for you as well.
The web page that that came off of was supposed to have been corrected or gone away. Like Jason said above, the TRT's request to get that stuff of there has been going on for a while. A new web page that is suppose to be accurate is up now. Click Here
All,
What I try do as a TRT member is this; Listen to everything that dune users tell me, form some type of what I feel is a majority opinion and share it with the rest of the TRT and BLM. If there is something that I feel that dune users, or myself, would not approve of or understand, I share that with the rest of the TRT and BLM. After the fact, I relay whatever messages and results that came out of our meetings, etc. to the dune users. I can not speak for the other TRT members, but I believe for the most part that they are doing the same thing.
It has been said many times that the only thing the TRT can do is to make recommendations to the BLM. They can not make them do anything. Well, we have made some progress. Without going to my notes, here are a few.
We passed a motion to recommend that the BLM aquire or assign someone to do the accounting for ISDRA. They have done that. Neil Hamada now has a person to assist him in this function.
We asked (don't remember if this was a motion) the BLM to have Central Parking to man the fee machines more in order to allow the the Visitor Services Staff and LEO's more time for their other duties. Central Parking has increased this, not to the extent we would prefer, but it was something.
We asked for more BLM presence in the South Dunes. There are now Camp Hosts at Buttercup.
It may not be monumental, but it is something
When I submitted my application for the TRT, I was told by a lot of people that I was in for a rough ride. I figured that. The thing was, I never thought I would get more grieve from some dune users than the BLM that I knew I would be up against. I will keep representing the dune users and will voice my concerns and yours. I will keep disagreeing with the BLM when it is appropriate. What I will not do is what I've said all along, I will not argue with you.
Thanks,
Glenn
The web page that that came off of was supposed to have been corrected or gone away. Like Jason said above, the TRT's request to get that stuff of there has been going on for a while. A new web page that is suppose to be accurate is up now. Click Here
All,
What I try do as a TRT member is this; Listen to everything that dune users tell me, form some type of what I feel is a majority opinion and share it with the rest of the TRT and BLM. If there is something that I feel that dune users, or myself, would not approve of or understand, I share that with the rest of the TRT and BLM. After the fact, I relay whatever messages and results that came out of our meetings, etc. to the dune users. I can not speak for the other TRT members, but I believe for the most part that they are doing the same thing.
It has been said many times that the only thing the TRT can do is to make recommendations to the BLM. They can not make them do anything. Well, we have made some progress. Without going to my notes, here are a few.
We passed a motion to recommend that the BLM aquire or assign someone to do the accounting for ISDRA. They have done that. Neil Hamada now has a person to assist him in this function.
We asked (don't remember if this was a motion) the BLM to have Central Parking to man the fee machines more in order to allow the the Visitor Services Staff and LEO's more time for their other duties. Central Parking has increased this, not to the extent we would prefer, but it was something.
We asked for more BLM presence in the South Dunes. There are now Camp Hosts at Buttercup.
It may not be monumental, but it is something
When I submitted my application for the TRT, I was told by a lot of people that I was in for a rough ride. I figured that. The thing was, I never thought I would get more grieve from some dune users than the BLM that I knew I would be up against. I will keep representing the dune users and will voice my concerns and yours. I will keep disagreeing with the BLM when it is appropriate. What I will not do is what I've said all along, I will not argue with you.
Thanks,
Glenn
Glenn, you get the grief because you deliver the news. Welcome to the club baby, it happens to the best of us 
At no time have I gotten the sense that the confusion, anger, frustration, etc., has been directed at you as a person or even you as a TRT representative.
Vicki
At no time have I gotten the sense that the confusion, anger, frustration, etc., has been directed at you as a person or even you as a TRT representative.
Vicki
Speaking from a person who has been on a few of these TRT's, and TRT's that had intense schedules, my hat is off to all that participate in the process.
Perhaps the most frustration I had with BLM was the initial good intents of all involved, and somehow BLM found a way to "do it their way" regardless of what the TRT recommended in the end.
It takes a thick skin to be in a leadership position on behalf of our community. I'm glad you share the TRT thoughts on GD.com so that all who desire to share their thoughts are given a forum to express them, regardless of their views, and/or alliances with organizations, as long as the personal shots are kept from the post.
Perhaps the most frustration I had with BLM was the initial good intents of all involved, and somehow BLM found a way to "do it their way" regardless of what the TRT recommended in the end.
It takes a thick skin to be in a leadership position on behalf of our community. I'm glad you share the TRT thoughts on GD.com so that all who desire to share their thoughts are given a forum to express them, regardless of their views, and/or alliances with organizations, as long as the personal shots are kept from the post.
TRT, Glamis is a better place because of your hard work ! (and getting better).
My hat is off to all of you TRT ers
/ 
My hat is off to all of you TRT ers
/
| QUOTE (LoBuck @ Jan 30 2004, 05:57 PM) |
| The web page that that came off of was supposed to have been corrected or gone away. Like Jason said above, the TRT's request to get that stuff of there has been going on for a while. A new web page that is suppose to be accurate is up now. Click Here |
Not to spoil all the good vibes (which I'd like to keep going since I also appreciate those who do thankless jobs for all of us!) But I ment to comment on this when you posted it on the ASA board and forgot to....so I'll do it now.
I think you're a little confused about BLM webpages Glenn. The quote above came from a BLM national level site about how "great the fee demo is" and the "best practices" that are being used to implement it and how well recieved it is by everyone involved.
It's not part of the El Centro website or even anything about the dunes (other than the dunes are listed as one of hte areas where fee demo is supposedly working just peachy keen.)
The link you provided is to the El Centro dune site which does seem to have been updated (Though they're still VERY slow about answering the Ask a LEO questions - I sent one in over a month ago about whip lights and still haven't heard back. The last one I sent too almost four months to get a reply
) but is not where the incorrect info is posted.The incorrect info is still posted and is not on a page that El Centro seems to have any control over - though I suspect El Centro may have given misleading info to Sacromento that was passed up to the federal office and led to the impression that fee demo is loved by all as it's presented on that page.
That being said - you guys have complained about it and that's really all we can ask to you do....but maybe more of us need to start sending in letters to the BLM federal offices asking that they fix the factual errors on their page:
http://www.blm.gov/recreation/fees/best_practices.htm
The factual errors in question are coming from many levels above that which the TRT deals with. And that's one of the big problems with the BLM
Thanks Swark!
| QUOTE ("jhitesma") |
| I think you're a little confused about BLM webpages Glenn. The quote above came from a BLM national level site about how "great the fee demo is" and the "best practices" that are being used to implement it and how well recieved it is by everyone involved. |
Jason I did know that that is a national level site. That's correct that the El Centro office does not have control of that site. They have followed up on the TRT's request several times to get that, and other info, corrected or removed. The El Centro office will have a lot of control of the new site I posted the link for. From what I understand, an El Centro employee is either submitting and confirming, or uploading the info, herself. The slow part is that each and every bit that goes on anything that is released to the public and says BLM on it must be reviewed and approved by the Fed office.
Hopefully the info in that other page will go away soon.
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