In a casual conversation with someone that works within the State of California Parks program, they tell me that the County of Imperial is offering to pay for the cost of the trash dumpsters at the ISDRA, from the time BLM removes this service until the end of this season.

But the interesting thing that came out of the conversation is they are hearing that ASA is opposing this concept.

I have no idea why a group would be opposing such a goodwill gesture from the County?

WTF - gotta be wrong info, I hope.

my gardners, plumber heard in a casual conversation with the lady at the grocery store...that her daugher knows something about this..

Yea....

I checked her mySpace and it was TRUE!










Casual Converstions......Nice one Duck!

Hum, I haven't heard anything about it over on the ASA site. You know how rumors go...let's not get one started on third had info...

You know how people say you should check things before you post rumors...or that making stuff up to look "in the know" is lame?

Well....just say'in.

I am taking my asa license plate from off my truck as we speak. Was the neighbors gardener a duner?

I can't imagine the ASA opposing having dumpsters... I can imagine the BLM not wanting them... We all know when the BLM removes the dumpsters, if there's nothing to replace them at the end of one weekend there'd be a giant pile of trash where the dumpsters were. After that, the dis-respectful will just leave there garbage in the dunes. Then guess who's gonna close the dunes to camping!!

Bring 'em in!

must be more to the story

lame duck dunner i think...

I can see the BLM opposing it, but not the ASA.

The ASA promotes "pack it in, pack it out", I can't see them "publicly" opposing the idea of someone paying for trash service, but I'm not in that loop, just an occasional volunteer.

Before any want to throw rocks at this post I've made, may I suggest you do some reseach on this.

I have more information on this.

Perhaps someone needs to contact those on the conference call regarding this, that happend today. I understand from my source, BLM, the OHV Division, ASA and the County were on this call where this came out today.

This is on the agenda for the Board of Supervisor's meeting (Imperial County) tomorrow (January 13, 2009). Did anyone from any OHV group notify any of us about this?



Edited to add new information.

Wow does her duaghter know Chummin, because I heard that it is his fault........

Why's that? You the only one that can throw rocks around here???

Hey no problem! Why don't you throw out the names of the people that were involved in this phone call??

Or why dont you throw out the name of your source???

Or do you really just like to start drama.....

Inquiring minds wanna know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No drama, just what I've heard.

I don't wish to disclose my source from Parks.

If you don't believe what I've provided, please contact BLM, the County, and ASA.

If I'm wrong about this, I'll admit it and provide an apology.

Remember what I edited my post above to provide (did anyone on this board or ASA mention this???)

On tomorrow's agenda for the Imperial County BOS meeting....

I bet...

There are a LOT of people opposed to the dumpster removal, and there are a lot of different reasons for that! Everyone knows, that people WILL just leave their trash on the ground where the dumpsters used to be. There is no secret to that.

But to come on here and try and make the ASA look like the bad guy in this, well, is childish to say the least.

I just got off the phone with someone that was part of that conference call, and every thing that Aphontomduck said is true. If you want to find out yourself, be at the Board of supervisors meeting at 8:30 tomorrow morning. ASA has been promoting "Pack it in Pack it out " for so long I think they are convinced it will work.

I'm not attempting to make ASA look like anything.

I'm reporting what I've heard from a source that usually on the mark.

And... you have not responded about the BOS meeting agenda item.

Quit fighting here and just do some home work and then report back.

Thats stupid........why dont they just change the tag line to "Pack It In and Pile It Up" which will me the more likely outcome without dumpsters.

Better check the title of this thread dude, and stop embarassing yourself.

eff*! Another un-named source of info.


Desperation.

500$ to the ASA if I am wrong. Want to put your money where your mouth is?

?

Questions...

1. What is the point of this thread?

2. If the ASA is opposed to Imperial paying for the existing dumpsters, why are they opposed?

3. Is anyone else opposed to this, or is it just the ASA?

4. Why are the other parties (if any) opposed?

5. Who is in favor, and why?

6. Lastly, where can we all verify this info you are providing?


Thank you for your factual replies.

There is a thread on the ASA site asking if this rumor is true. There has not been a definate answer to the question yet.link to thread

Edit to add link

I would say he is on to something and should be applauded for bringing it up to gd.com. The only people that may be embarrassed would be the ASA if this pans out. If it is true, there are two sides to every story, and always several viewpoints on a situation. That being said I am very interested in a response if this it turns out to be their stance.

1. who knows 2.They think the money should be spent on educating the duners about the trash problems, and also by having trash service to the end of the season just prolongs the inevetable.3.none 4. none 5.Brawley chamber of commerce, El Centro chamber of commerce, UDG, Imperial county board of supervisors. The why to question 5 it is simple, these entities believe by providing trash service until the end of the season it will give them more time to come up with a permanent funding solution. 6. Tomorrow morning 8:30 Imperial county board of supervisors meeting, El centro CA. Or call any of the organizations listed in 5, I did.

I'll respond at this moment to # 2 and # 6.

Might I suggest you go to the Board of Supervisors meeting tomorrow. The evidence will be there in the public.

Thanks for bringing this up! Kinna late notice for most people to make the meeting, at least for me anyway. Where will the minutes be available after the meeting?

Thanks for all your replies!

I personally believe " Pack it in, Pack it out" will work just as good as " Don't drink and drive", "Buckle up it saves lives ", etc., etc. Trash is the number one thing that will get the dunes closed. The first weekend there is tons of trash left behind the CBD or some other org. will be in front of a federal judge with pictures just crying there eyes out. But don't worry it will be just a temporary closure until the BLM figures out a good plan. Maybe I am crazy because I cant believe I am the only one that sees this problem this way.

I'm too just a grunt for the ASA... BUT I do think I know enough to say this is pretty close. I GOTTA put in here toward the top that at last months TRT meeting is where I got the info I do have (or think I have). It was on the agenda. If you wanted to discuss it you should have stayed around if you were there.

As I understand it the ISDRA is the ony BLM run recreation area that has dumpsters. When it was asked a long time ago "is there anything an other recreation area is doing or not doing that we should consider when it comes to the budget?" the idea of the dumpsters came about.

"Pack it in Pack it out" has worked in all other areas. Why people don't think it'll work at the ISDRA is beyond me. From the hundreds of people I have talked to about this only one family fessed up and said they use the dumpsters. Everyone else says TO MY FACE "I pack my trash home already so it won't matter to me...How big is the fine gonna be and will people be out there writing tickets?" Oh yes there will be tckets. And dime droppers too.

And remember the ASA is just an orginization. Your the people in it. If things are being done you don't care for, then why aren't you paying attention?

Go to an Imperial County Board meeting, A Brawley city council meeting, get to know the people in the place you pass by a dozen or more times a year while you play in their back yard.

Seems really strange to me. The only reason that makes since for the ASA to oppose this is the same question that keeps coming up and no one seems to want to answer. What happened to the money that has been collected to pay for things like EMS and Trash collection? I could understand them saying at the end of the season that they have to do something else next season because the monies feel short but not in the middle of the season.

Everyone involved including BLM, ASA, County, Brawley, Vendors needs to remember one very simple thing while they continue with all the bs political in-fighting, IF THE TRASH DOESN'T GET FIXED THE DUNES WILL CLOSE. If the dunes close no one will need the ASA or BLM and County and City of Brawley will be in a world of hurt without the tax revenue and business given to the local economy.

The county sounds like the smart one here. They are smart enough to realize how important the dunes being open are and are stepping up with cash to make the problem go away.

Trash is a big issue now even with the dumpsters in place, I fear it will only get worse without them.

If this rumor is true and Imperial County is stepping up and offering to fund the continuation of the dumster program,

how in the hell do you say no to a gift horse? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

It's all here if your interested: http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm...108%20FINAL.pdf

The BLM had a contract thru the first of 2009. Thats why they're going away in the middle of the season.

As for the ASA we have a pretty good idea what trash in the dunes means. Anytime you want to come help at a booth I'm working I'll be happy to show you the boxes of information we put out. I know the people at the El Centro BLM office love the dunes and their jobs. Same with the vendors. The city of Brawley on the other hand also has farming and hunting to support them. Sure we do a lot for them, but in my opinion if the dunes closed the town wouldn't die. How many dune goers do you know that stay at a hotel? How many new hotels have they built in that area? So that leaves US, the dune users, who really have the most to "fix" And its an easy fix. TAKE YOUR TRASH HOME.



I use to remember thinking If we (my wife and I) don't clean up my kids room it would never get clean. But we realized if we keep doing it for her she would never learn.

WE (the dune users) NEED to learn how to clean up after ourselfs and do what it takes to keep our recreation area nice. That way it won't be closed down. That makes sense to me.

or here:

•
One of the biggest ongoing issues for the site is trash collection. Over $575,000 is spent on trash collection and toilet maintenance, in addition to the staff work and volunteer efforts. ISDRA needs additional dumpsters, more law enforcement on litter compliance, dump stations, and more help and resources for trash collection and toilet maintenance

This is from page 22 of the link posted above. This may help explain the crack down on litter in the campsites and fire pits. Law enforcement may be using their ticket writing ability to help educate the masses on pack it in pack it out and having a clean camp site. I agree with litter enforcement, I don't agree with wanting to ticket everyone in camp for litter if no one will admit it theirs. They also need to ticket those that leave litter on the ground in front of the dumpsters. This would help get the message out to pack it out if the dumpsters are full.

I don't doubt for a moment that the expense of the dumpsters is a tough pill to swallow.

I remember back in the 1980's and early 1990's questioning the cost of this and the cost of the restrooms that were installed at the OHV Commission meetings. Even then, the folks who used the dunes took me aside and asked me to quiet down because without the dumpsters, we would have a real bad trash problem that would likely cause us trouble.

I agree with the concept of "pack it in, pack it out". Heck, we have been doing this for years as motorized recreationist on most public lands in California.

But once this became accepted at the ISDRA, its darn tough to put the genie back in the bottle.

With the new funding available in the green sticker fund, I'd say we accept the offer of the County and look to the OHV Division to properly fund the unnecessary evil that we have created.

Geez, someone raises a legitimate concern, others come on with additional facts backing up the need for the question and still there are people making personal attacks and throwing out red herrings instead of maybe just taking the initiate to confirm... raise the questions themselves or simply STFU until they have something legitimate to add. Amazing. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Removing the dumpsters from Glamis, as expensive as they are, is fraught with troubles... it's taken years for the Glamis public to become dependent on the dumpsters. It's not possible to undo that dependency in one season, especially when there is no education of the duning public occurring to help pave the way.

It's going to take more than one season to make this work, or it's doomed to failure. It sounds to me like the County of Imperial realizes that and is trying to provide a temporary fix until the education process catches up to the decision. Congrats to the County for the foresight.

Duck, Mike, thanks for trying.

Vicki W.

I am not heavily invoved with ASA anymore , but am a staunch supporter. IMO there is more to this story then being posted here . Politics may very well be in the way of ASA posting there reasons at this very moment . I am sure more will come to light in the morning .

That being said let me pose a question.

Do we want dumpsters at all cost ? What services are you willing to give up in Lieu of dumpsters ?
How much are you willing to see fees go up to keep dumpsters for perpituity?

Assuming the dumpsters are only saved for the rest of this season Based on BLM's past performance do you really think they have the ability to educate people that in the beginning of next season there will be no Trash service ? ( in the off season )

How many really knew that service was supposed to end at the of the month ?


All this for the simple fact the people are not willing to take their own damn trash home with them


Just askin ?

Wow Joe! Duck, IIRC, doesn't 'started drama', but rather posts reliable info. No need to cut his throat before trying to verify what he posted. If everyone was a perfect duner like you (nver go to teh drgas, or the hill, and pack your own trash home), the CBD would have nothing better to do than go after glass makers for using to much endangered sand. Please take it easy

Thats your idea of "reliable info"??? Ok, if you say so! You are entitled to your opionion, as am I.

To me it's what he always does, try to make the ASA look like the bad guy.

At least mike g had the balls to post what he actually knew, and that ya have to respect. I would be willing to bet Mr. Duck knew what mike g posted as well, when he stated, he had no idea why, but it makes better drama if you word your post the way that he did!

Let's see what the masses say...



Click me to have your say!

To address some concerns I would like to explain the ASA's position on the trash issue.
I have attached the letter I sent to Wally Leimguber, Chairman Imperial County Board of Supervisors, today.
First- some hard facts of this issue:
* It appears that the BLM is not able to provide dumpsters next season. No matter what Imperial County tries to do right now, there will not be dumpsters next season.
* Imperial County MAY be willing to fund the dumpsters for the second half of this season, but not for next season.
* Why pay for trash service twice, once at ISDRA and again at home?
* Why not use the $100,000-$150,000 to educate and enforce the litter law or provide other improvements we need.
* County funding for trash service or improved access roads, i.e., Wash Rd, Gordon's Well, etc
* Other Imperial County locations do not have trash service, i.e., Plaster City, Superstition, Ocotillo, etc. They are able to pack it in and pack it home. Yes the ISDRA has more visitors, but most of us pack our trash home anyway.
* Why postpone the inevitable? Again, the best information we have is there will not be any dunpsters next season.
* The funds available to the BLM from camping permits used to run the ISDRA are shrinking because visitation is down and likely to keep dropping.

I know what some of you are going to say- If we discontinue the dumpsters, many people will trash the ISDRA. We are going to have to face this issue now or next season so lets face it now.
If we can do without the dumpsters the BLM can use the funds to provide essential services we need, like search and rescue and EMTs. We don't need trash cans. We can take our trash home with us. We figured out how to pack it to the ISDRA and we can figure out how to pack it home. Some establishments are planning to provide trash containers as a way of attracting more business and provide users a valuable service. If you wish, you can patronize these locations.

I do not think people will act as irresponsible as some might think. Those I have talked to respect the ISDRA and would never do anything to harm Mother Glamis. I know I am preaching to the choir here. There will be a small minority that will need educating on trash. We have overcome obstacles before and we can do it again. I have a great deal of confidence in the duning community that we can do this. Will there be increased enforcement on littering? Yes, there will be more. Will we all have to be more conscious about trash in the future and what our campsites look like? Yes we will. We will have to obey the letter of the law. Nothing more and nothing less.

Will there be dumpsters next season? No, so we need to face this problem and solve it now.

These are the issues the ASA has had to face and determine what position best serves the ISDRA community. It is a hard pill to swallow, but there is no way to dodge it. If there was, things could be different.

I sincerely hope we can all work together on this and enjoy the ISDRA for many years to come.

Bill Jones, ASA Chairman








Click to view attachment

Thanks for clearing up ASA's stance.

IMO most people don't pack it home.

I had the balls to post what I knew to be accurate information at the time. I don't chose to reveal any sources that don't want to be revealed. Something wrong with that Rivermobster?

I have had the letter Mr. Jones posted in my inbox since this about 4:00 pm this afternoon. I chose not to post it to allow ASA to talk to the duning community. I respect Bill Jones and have the upmost respect for him.

Mr. Jones did indeed back-up my information. Everything I posted here was accurate to the best I knew of at the time. As more information came available, I posted what I deemed to be accurate.

I'm learning more each hour and will post more of the background on this as I'm able to verify what is going on.

So, Mr. Rivermobster (and others in this thread that took me to task for posting this ACCURATE information)... how do you like your crow - rare, medium, or well done?

Thank you for cooking, appreciate the heads up on the info.

One thing one needs to remember here Bill is that that funds the County of Imperial was using to fund the trash bins has not a thing to do with BLM funding in any way. It also has no nexus in the permit fees. It is monies from the County Controller and has nothing to do with funds from the OHV Division budget.

I am truely AMAZED at the lack of class and general @SS BITE attitude given to APHANTOMDUCK. Anyone who has posted here for any lenth of tme would know that this man is and has been nothing but a remarkable resourse in the fight for our dunes and other public lands. I have never read a post from him that was intented to stir the pot. He is most likely 10 time more informed than ANY of you on ANY issue that deals with public lands and the fight to keep them open.
Maybey you have no clue about who you where slamming but be informed that this guy is the real deal and has nothing but our best interest at heart...................makes me sick. APHANTOMDUCK please keep posting and informing us like you always have!