If you voted to have an existing service removed, what service would you like removed, to pay for continuted trash service?

I didn't vote because I'm not sure where I stand on this, I pack it out, but would hate to see trash become a problem. I think more signage would help, certainly enforcement can't hurt, and I've heard there has been more enforcement.

If they go, there is no way we'll be able to keep up with the litter.
The time it would take people to learn not to leave it where the dumpsters used to be would be long enough to close the dunes indeffanitly.
My .2

Now if we had Bouncer type guys stand watch at the dumpster sights. That might keep people from leaving trash bags on the ground in piles 10' high.

I'd pay increased fees to keep them. I have no problem packing my trash home AND paying the higher fees as I know there are a bunch of people that will leave their crap behind if the dumpsters are not there and I'll spend half my weekend cleaning up other peoples crap.

I agree with fee increase. But put it in a separate transparent account managed by the ASA. Otherwise five years later we will be right back here again.

One thing I still don't understand is that the yearly fee for the service is 400k. So $1095 a day. Those cans are used what maybe 9 months a year if that. I have a real hard time believing that it should cost that much.

The dumpsters are very convenient I will say that.

HOWEVER, do you realize that the more "services" we have in the dunes the closer we are to being categorized as a NATIONAL PARK?!

I can see it now................BLM states................we gave you toilets, dumpsters, picnic tables, designated developed parking, kiosks / interpretive signs and security. Now we are going to push to get ISDRA listed as a National Park!!

ISDRA is one of the biggest if not the biggest off road area we have and as a National Park they could make mint off of it!

Let them take the dumpsters away and take the time to educate folks to pack it in and pack it out.

I for one do not want to have to make a reservation to go play in Glamis. I have been going to Glamis since I was a very young child and want to keep going without having to make reservations or park in a designated camping spot!

Look what they've done at Ysemite......vehicle traffic is kept to a minimum because of traffic congestion and pollution.....you want that to be done it Glamis too?

The more services we have provided to us the worse off we will be in the long run.

JMHO

It's a Catch 22. They remove the dumpsters and they will write more tickets for littering so they pay more $ for LEO so they raise the fees then they need to write more tickets to justify the increased # of LEO's .

personally, i dont want them there at all. they are ugly, dirty, smelly and cause a huge souce of traffic back up on the busy weekends.

that fact that i have to pay for a service for some lazy azzhole that cant double bag his stuff and take it home with him totaly pisses me off!!!

jezuz, how did glamis ever surive all these years without those dumpsters there anyway??? youd think all of the sand dunes would be covered in trash by now by listening to some of you!!! they have only been there a couple of years. lets get rid of those ugly azz things!!!!

pigs will be pigs no matter what you do. dumpsters aint gonna fix stupid.

how bout this.......

you want your $$$ spent on dumpsters??? or a new wash road graded along the fence???

think about that for a bit!!!

That won't happen in our Dunning lifetime and you know that , Even if we dune till were JD's age. The EcoNazi's will see to that.

I'm not sure if i should laugh or cry about that!!!

I have no problem with taking my trash home, I've been doing it for years. But my only concern is that most other people don't, then we are going to have trash thru-out the dunes and giving them reason to close the dunes alltogether! I say raise the fee's and keep the trash service. JMHO

keep them, and cut the Leo's that are being ridiculous. (about 30% of them)
keep the good cops.

it shouldnt be to hard to figure out what Leo's to cut.

I like the convience of not having to pack it home, but when the line is long or the idiots have surround the 15 feet around the dumpster. I take it home!

I would like to see a Northeast style Transfer station outside the Dunes where people can drop their trash and people can go through and get all our recycleable goods out and dumb the "trash". But maybe I'm thinking to "Perfect worldly"...

So if they raise the fee to $300 a season your fine with that or how about $600 a season and $100 a week that ought to keep all the people that throw trash on the ground away......Not much for competition in the Waste Management department in Imperial County I would guess and we all lknow how supply and demand works might even end up at $1K but hey at that price they will probaly drive down Geko and pick the trash up from your individual trash can that sits next to the picnic table and full hook ups.......

I would still pay $600 a year to go to Glamis, what about you? I have alot of $$$ invested into going to Glamis and the concern that I have about BLM closing Glamis because of trash is a major concern of mine!!!

I have alot invested at my level and have been going for a long time but I could not afford to pay $600 just to park, That would be the end of my dunning days.

I think the whole "we cant afford the dumpsters" was largly driven by the high fuel cost sur-charges, shouldnt that be a non issue now? They seem to have chosen the cost of stepped up enforcement since they have frittered away our dune pass fees but obviously they figured out that has a payback.

I dont agree with paying all of this pyamarided overtime paid out to outside LEO's who are either justifying it with the ticket fest or being directed to do so. They should be doing what they want with their free time and getting some R&R from their day jobs. Alot of jobs out there have what is called "comp time" which you earn time off at time and a half. Not as much presence is needed on off weekends on what eight out of twelve months. So give more time off on the off season and tues-thurs. If all BLM hands were on deck on the big weekends there would not be so much rookie outside help needed. Leo's would be alot less uptight with more time off and quit learning to live on all this overtime.
I know.. there would be union issues with that, cause it makes too much sense.

I also wonder if they are paying a per dumpster flat fee year round no matter if each is full or empty which means that during the off season and off weeks they are grossly overpaying... 90% of the dumpsters could probably be pulled in the off season.
Again too much sense I know.

I realize that this is a sensitive and controversial topic that has been covered quite a few times and do not want to start a range war here.

It just seems absurd to me that most of the people who have posted in favor of keeping dumpster service in place, also vow that they always pack out their own trash, as they should. That being the case, what you are doing is trying to protect the people who probably have little or no business being at the dunes in the first place.

Again this is not meant as a slam, but it is always disappointing to see the responsible part of society protecting the weak and lame from what should be the natural selection process. Protecting the ones that should be pushed to the outside of the herd to be taken out by the predators or parish from their own stupidity.

There are plenty of people on here who will attest that the Rangers will happily cite for littering and I am quite confident that it would only take filling the spots where the dumpster were located with piles of trash before the Rangers would post people with a printing press for ticket books. That could even be part of a preemptive plan prior to the dumpsters being removed.

To those who write about the environmentalist using the newfound trash piles as a weapon to help close the area, don’t you think that the present sites of dumpsters and related predator problems are already substantial ammunition?

Ding ding ding!!! We got a winner!!

Let's talk reality here.


Who the hell camps right next to the dumpsters? Nobody. Then the fact that they may be dirty smelly and ugly doesn't mean much, since you can drive past them without looking at them,, touching them, or smelling them.

As for the traffic backup, well, that's how some people do it. I take my trash over with my golf cart, then I just hop on the 78. I don't ever wait in line to get home.


As far as how the money gets spent...

this yr, the budget was set for the dumpsters to cost $400K. Thee was no price increase (as the BLM allegedly claims) so my position is, since the service was budgeted and is still within budget, the service should be provided as contracted for the remainder of the fiscal yr.

Now if you honestly think that this is a situation where we will get either dumpster service OR a new wash road graded, you need to stop attending meetings and start meditating, or drink ginseng or something. There is no correlation between removing dumpster service and a new wash road.

As a matter of fact, there was a very generous offer at the TRT meeting by Fastlane to get heavy equipment operators and bulldozers to get the job done. The appropriate thank you noises were made, but I think deep down that unless the issue gets pushed a lot harder by those who offered, the BLM won't take them up on that very, very generous offer.

They are going to continue to plod along as usual, incorporate the new wash road in the new RAMP...


we'll see how that unfolds. Past performance is not always a guarantee of future performance, but it's usually a safe bet.

Guys the answer is simple. Privatize the trash service. No fees would be needed to support the dumpsters.

If you are a true PACK IT HOME duner then it will not effect you. You will continue as you have. If you feel you need the dumpster then pay the small fee the vendor will ask to dump your trash. This will leave plenty of money for the leos to write tickets for the asshats that chose to do niether.

OSD .02

What would the crows eat if there were no dumpsters? Oh yeah the trash left behind.

Joe doesn't like crow *shrug*

I'm with Norm on this one...people have a hard time learning new rule's, especially when half of them come from places, where it is perfectly fine to leave your trash where ever it lands!! I think they should stay, but I didn't vote on it, when was the vote??

I thought green sticker fee's helped pay for the dune areas also??? And didn't they go up recently???? From $25 to $50.00????

Maybe with some ketchup or mustard.





Actually, the poll left out the most logical option.


"Should the dumpsters be kept and paid for entirely by Imperial County to keep the dunes open and continue to receive $400M a yr in extra revenue as a result of duners? "

Let's face it, we're pumping $400M into the local economy, and that's according to the ICBOS. Why should they get that for free? They formed the UDG and other orgs to deal with issues regarding the ISDRA, so this is a prime example of something they can do.

There's no free lunch in this world. Well, not unless you're an illegal immigrant.

If they have to spend a measly $400K a yr to continue getting $400M, that's pretty damn cheap. Besides, once the contract is no longer through a federal agency, then the cost will drop drastically because they will no longer have to pay prevailing wage. So now the dumpster truck drivers will get paid $12/hour instead of the $45/hr they are getting paid now.

I'm thinking IC will spend about $250K to $275K per yr for the same level of trash service.

I think they spent too much of their budget on law enforcement, and the LEO's are writing chickepoop cites to pump up their statistics and justify their staffing numbers.

Cut back on the CS cops and spent the money on trashcans.

Do you know where they plan on spending the $500,000 dollars they will save?
I can make a pretty good guess based on their spending history.

Yup, they spent $2.74M this yr on fee enforcement and law enforcement.

They just spread it over about 6 different line items in the budget. Judging from the lack of uproar about it, it looks like that tactic worked pretty well.

I totally agree with ya Steve, but the point I was trying to make was...

There is only so much money to go around, where do you want it spent?

Personally, since it's my money they are spending, I'd rather see it spent on something else besides trash service. And I do not want my fee's to go up!!! I'm very suprised at the poll results. So many people have complained that the fee's are already too high, and yet it seems most people want them to go higher! Learn something new every day I guess, I never would have expected this result.

Joe, we're not in a position to tell the BLM or ask the BLM how to spend the budget. The TRT can ask all the questons they want, the BLM will just give answers, then do what they want anyways.

The only thing I'm trying to protect is my substantial investment in sand related gear and my ability to enjoy clean dunes. BTW, the greenies that would love to close THE REST of our dunes are the predators I fear. The immediate problems from the dumpster removal are fuel for the fire. No doubt that in time and enough tickets written that the problem would work itself out, after all Glamis survived a LONG time with no dumpsters but the greenies have their crap together and the speed in which they operate should not be underestimated.

I personally think the dumpsters should stay in place, due to those that think the world is a dumpster. I personally never leave any trace of being in the desert other than some tire tracks.

I have no problem taking trash home if need be but here is my problem with removing the dumpsters.

1. I pay fees to go to glamis (permit) and will have no dumpsters.

2. I do not pay fees (permit) to use ocotillo wells and there are dumpsters, bathrooms, shade structures, graded roads, pay showers, and marked trails.

3. Green sticker registration doubled this year ($25 now $50)

It seems that there is some reason to hassle duners over those that ride the dirt. It is just hard to understand why I should have to pay more for less at glamis.

greenies must have some sort of hidden pact with the blm and the use of dunes.

Unfortunatly this could be true...they have higher powers to answer to. But they can take input from us, the TRT the ASA and pass that info along. I'm not willing to give up completely, I hope you will fight as well.

Here's a little explanation...


$33 of your $50 for your green sticker helps pay for the amenities at Ocotillo Wells. Ocotillo Wells is a SVRA ran by the Off-Highway Motor Vehicle Recreation Division of California State Parks. Imperial County receives a portion of the green sticker fees ($4 of your $50 is spread out statewide based off of the off-road use per county) BUT...that money only goes to the county...not BLM.

Glamis is BLM and is funded by your federal dollars. Big BLM (Washington DC) only gives the California desert field offices (Ridgecrest, Barstow, Needles, Palm Springs, El Centro) a few dollars to share between themselves annually. The rest of the funding comes from grants, permit fees, citations, etc. There's only so much to spread around...

Just Ocotillo?
or you mean all the CA SVRA areas.....Hungry Valley, Oceano, Hollister....etc.

I need to go to Ocotillo and recoup some of my $$$ spent by riding there.

River, you should also add "Go ahead and let Imperial county pay for them" as option.

No....not just Ocotillo.

Thank you....

At first I was thinking....

thanks for the clarification, I thought that since the blm sherrifs were out there that it was funded through the BLM.

keep the dumpsters increase my fees if thats what it takes ,otherwise we are going to have a trash problem like no other

The BLM does not have sheriffs, sheriffs are employed by the county. BLM have rangers, who are federal, AFAIK.

did it again, I mean rangers. Anyways I guess it is not run by BLM and that was what makes the difference

Not to be picky here Vicki, but if memory serves, the county(s) received $ 3.00 from the monies collected in lieu of personal property taxes. I don't recall this being raised to $ 4.00. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

And no worries!! It's really confusing!

And you'll see all the above (and then some) at both places because they all have a MOU (an understanding that they all can enforce local, state and federal laws)

Sorry...back to topic of dumpster!

$33 to OHMVR
$4 to in lieu
$6 to CHP
$7 to DMV

=$50

The $25 increase in the $50 was only to the amount that goes to OHMVR Division. The other amounts remain the same.


These amounts are explained in the green sticker registration renewals.

You are correct here Vicki. The memory didn't serve here.

I had no idea that BLM rangers would be used at a CA state park, that's interesting news!

Thanks! Don't mean to hijack...

wth....I'll continue to hijack...




Not all counties/entities have MOUs in place. Each place is unique. If you want specifics, you'd have to make some phone calls.