I dont remember the history here... were the dumpsters placed to deal with a trash problem?
Or were they placed as justification of the increased fees or were the fees increased for justification?
Dont we still have a trash problem even with the dumpsters, the education and the enforcement?
Left it at camp sites, piled by the dumpster, out in the dunes and the hills?

The "head in the sand" types think there will not be a problem... I hope I am wrong but how can anyone think that it wont get really bad.
They should have never been placed if not sustainable... if there was a problem it will be magnified by a factor of 10 at least for a while.

I use them because they are there. I have an open trailer and room for maybe three big bags but I would hate to loose anything on the road by accident. When they are gone I will pack out as I do everywhere else I go but must admit trash is not much of a problem everywhere else but there will be a learning curve here!

I would say 75% of users have toy haulers or enclosed and I cant see them anxious to haul a whole lot of stinky trash inside, maybe theirs but definatly not what others leave.
Just sayin...

Personally I dont care what happens with the dumpsters as much as I care that we dont get trashed and shut down.

the dumpsters were there before the fees started

What an excelent question...

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm...108%20FINAL.pdf

In this document, there is a lot of info about how and why the monies are spent at dumont and the isdra. If everyone would take the time to read the Executive Summary on page two, you will see what I'm saying here...

Currently, glamis oppearates under a "special recreatonal permit", and thats how/why the BLM can collect and distrubute fees. In 2004 the REA was enacted, which allows other methods of collecting fees. (entrance, standard amenity, expanded amenity, and special recreation permit).

I see the BLM moving towards the standard amenity fee. Why? These are the things that would have to be in place, for the fee structure to change: (1) designated developed parking; (2) a permanent toilet facility; (3) a permanent trash receptacle; (4) an interpretive sign, exhibit or kiosk; (5) picnic tables; and (6) security services.

I can only imagine that IF the BLM moves to that SAF, our fee's will be increased dramaticly! I highly oppose any fee increases. That is my personal point of view.

Now, if you read the recomendations specificly for glamis, security cameras (which i believe apply to point #6) are recomended as well. They have already put in everything else they need to move to the new fee structure, with the exceptions of 3 and 6.

I do not want to see us move to the Standard Amenity fee. (i believe our fees would go up)

Also, if you read the rest of the exectutive summary, there are other steps the BLM can take to incresse our fees to the dunes. This would be the expanded amenity fee. To put this in place, a reservation system would have to exist!!!!

To me this would be a disasaster.

I can live without the dumpsters, and I support their removal completly. I hope now you can understand why.

Thank you!

How does the BLM plan to get to the point of charging us SAF, if they are the ones who are removing the dumpsters?

It would seem to me if that was their goal, they'd have trimmed the fat out of some of that $2.74M they spent on fee enforcement and law enforcement and kept the dumpsters to reach their goal.

I'm afraid that as much as I appreciate the discussion and the information provided, what we're all doing here is the virtual version of pissing in the wind. Sure it brings a little relief, but when you look down at your shoes, you realize just how futile the effort really was.

Lots of unanwered questions Steve, I surely don't have all the answers. But reading that document was an eye opener to me, in as far as where this could be headed.

I know one thing for sure, if a permenent trash receptical system is not put in place, they can't take the next step! There has been a lot of talk about glamis going to a national park type system, and honestly, i didnt put much stock in it.

After reading that complete document, I'm starting to believe it could happen...

Ever since I saw Glamis listed on the ReserveAmerica site a few yrs back, I've been convinced that Glamis was headed to a reservation system, possibly even a concessionaire to run the whole thing.

Now I wish that wasn't going to be the case, but I have the same feeling I get when I'm looking at a steam roller coming right at me. If that is the case, then I'm hoping for the best outcome possible. Maybe more paved parking in RV spots for those who want it over on Gecko (like multiple little streets paved eastward and westward from Gecko) while still keeping the wilderness feeling to the washes with open camping with no reservations.

But I'm afraid my optimism is getting the best of me on this one.

We are starting to agree here Steve...

Kinna scary!!!

I hope you can see why I feel as strongly as I do about this. There are only pieces missing to this current puzzle, and the dumpsters are one of them. I don't know if we can stop this or not. We haven't had much luck so far...

I think the company who owns the dumpster has to make a cool million on just beer cans. Maybe they should leave them just for the recyceling fee's.

If you leave late on Sunday like I usually do. (Sunday is another dunning day) You will see people digging through the trash at night for all the cans. Scared the crap out of me the first time one came out of the bin.

Yup...I recall being a kid and going to take trash to them in the 80's.








EFF...who knows what should be done.
We are like pigeons fighting over a leftover french fry that fell on the floor.

I can say there will never be "Enough" money going into our sport...

But my question is how can we truely ensure its being properly spent. Efficient.

GOV entities are not known for their thrifty spending habits.


I can't always go sit in TRT meetings either.






What do we do?

It's not an option that's really been put on the table.


And even if it was it's one that any duner should be VERY wary of.


Remember - the ICBOS are the same group who instituted the closure of comp hill at the very meeting where the BLM announced they felt it was unnecessary.


Get on the hook with them for services and it's very likely that much like the OHMVR they'll start putting some VERY unpalatable conditions on continuing that funding. Don't be surprised if a year or so down the road keeping anything the ICSO provides requires banning alcohol, restricting night riding or larger gatherings of people, reservations and all kinds of other things most duners will like even less than loosing dumpsters.

I say we don't need the dumpsters. I go camping in a few other places (Johnson Valley, El Mirage, Cal City) where there are no dumpsters. I do just fine packing out my trash. If I can do it there I can do it a Glamis or anywhere else I camp. Also I echo as has been mentioned earlier they are ugly and stinky and usually piled over with mounds of trash. I say if those of us that use the dunes cannot do it responsibily then they should be closed.

A few years back there where two huge dumpsters across the street from GBS why did they get rid of them and who was in charge of them? I always wondered why those where removed and a bunch of small ones put on wash road?

I'm in the same boat. I usually pack it out, but sometimes stop and drop a couple of bags in the dumpsters. I too am afraid that if the dumpsters go away that the people who just barely had the motivation to get their trash to the dumpsters will now just leave it for the next guy to take care of.

Several things contributed to the loss of the big dumpsters. The main issue was the environmentalists getting FWS to require that the dumpsters be raven proof to protect the desert tortoise since Ravens like to snack on both trash and tortoises.

The secondary issue was people who couldn't get their trash in the dumpsters. They had ramps for awhile, but were threatened with lawsuits by people who apparently can't walk up a ramp without hurting themselves, and without the ramps they were threatened with ADA lawsuits - and people started just leaving their trash next to the dumpsters if they couldn't swing the bag up into them.

Thank you for that answer,

He wasn't digging for cans, someone had just thrown away a perfectly good homeless person............

why dont they just get 20 huge frickin dumpsters instead of 15 small ones, and leave them there for most of the season.. or i heard there paying like 900,000 for trash services.. ill do it for cheaper..