So I am a little confused....i know the GVWR as been discussed over and over on several different levels...I also know what the reality of the toy hauler situation is.....I see guys all over this forum with SHORTBED 2500HD'S AND F-250'S which we all know are 3/4 ton trucks, pulling 35'-39' toy hualers......they are WAY over weight especialy if there is along travel.....(HEAVY) sand car in the trailer.......I am looking to buy a 5th wheel and just can't really narrow it down about just how OVERWEIGHT i wanna go.....seems like a WW LE3305 is the biggest trailer I can go and be "LEGAL" but I also see a ton of 3505's and 3705's out there at great prices....can some of you guys that are pulling those heavier models with 3/4 ton trucks speak up and let us potential buys know the real deal about the load on the truck and NO B.S. how it handles such a heavy trailer.....oh and also if you have ever weighed your rig and seen just how much it all weighs that would be good info....Thanks ahead of time!

There is a thread in RV Technical (i think) where this was discussed a legnth. A couple of guys posted their weights and they were about 7k lb overweight with their 3/4 ton trucks.

Of course that depends on what truck you have. It's pretty hard to overweigh a Ford F450 tow boss.

If you cant find the thread lemme know...

I tow a LE3505 with a 3/4 ton Duramax and it tows fine. I don't put an LT car in it. Just a Teryx and quad. Never put it on the scales though.


Andy

wapawekka, so you say it pulls fine....you come up the grade on the 8 right to come back home.....? How does the truck do.....I have an 07 classis 2500HD with the duramax. I want to have room for two quads and a rhino....think a LE3305will do that?

Some people will tell you different but I think its fine. I don't do the grade on the 8 since I live up North. I took a trip to Oregon in 2008 and pulled plenty of hills and it did fine. Between the Grapevine and all the hills getting into Oregon by Mt. Shasta. Sure, I had to slow down to 35-40mph but it still pulled the hills fine and my temps never got to high even though the heat on the 5 was bad. Just remember that it takes a little longer to stop so give yourself plenty of room and never be in a hurry. Thats just my 2 cents.


Andy

You'd be surprised how much room these trailers have. An Le3305 is only 2 feet shorter then mine and I have plenty of room. Over Halloween last year I had the Teryx, a quad and 3 dirtbikes in the trailer and still had room to spare for the smudge pot, ice chests and gear.


Andy

ok then i should be just fine with the 3305....or a 3505 if I can get a decent price on one....there are a bunch out there gotta find the right deal. Thanks for the info on the space. I should be just fine with two quads and a rhino or artic cat.....

I typed a 20 minute reply and this POS laptop lost it. I'm not typing it all again.


Bottom line is, they all have the same drivetrain - 2500HD, 3500, 4500, 5500.
you don't gain any more power or a bigger tranny by going to the next higher model, only truck cargo cap. My 2500HD has more 5er towing cap. because it weighs less than a dually, which weighs less than a longbed dually, which weighs less than a 4WD longbed dually.

Now there's no doubt my 40' trailer weighs a lot more than my sticker on my truck says it's rated for, but a sticker doesn't tow or stop a truck. Between the engine and tranny upgrades, suspension upgrades, better tires, best brake controller, etc, Im confident in my truck's ability to tow, control and stop my rig safely.

If I had bought a 3500 4WD longbed dually, my towing cap. would have been probably 1500 lbs less. Things may have changed on the newer models, but that's how the tow ratings were on the 2002 models.

Just to clarify, I tow an SLC3905 (measured at almost 42' long) and I installed 4 golfcart batteries, a large air compressor, 2 solar panels, plus tons of spare parts, EZ-up, chairs, tools, food, booze, etc. I put an 800 lb golf cart in it along with a 2500 lb sandrail and a spare 125 lb generator. I'm guessing the trailer weighs somewhere between 19,400 and 19,800 lbs.

Because of the sensitivity of my brake controller, the entire rig feels as though it will stop faster than the truck will stop empty, but I have not tested that out, hopefully I never will.

Whats the sticker weight and what kind of 40?
I weighed my cl40 with one quad and half tank of water, truck + trailer came in at 23840 combined at the cat scales. I hate having to slow down to 40mph on the grades.
The truck 2003 f350 has 4' exhaust, intake, 4.56 gears, rebuilt billet trans with tugger kit and oversized trans pan, still feels iffy and still slows down to 40mph on the grades. I cant imagine a fully loaded 40 with all the quads or even car in it.

The trailer sticker weight is 15,000 it's a WW SLC3905. The truck is rated for a 15,400 lb 5er.

I've got an Edge Juice on it and it put down 450hp/915 ft-lbs of torque on a Mustang dyno. It will pull the fully loaded trailer over the grade on I-8 with ease at 65 mph (it could go even faster, but I don't want a ticket). I've towed through UT and ID and stayed with the flow of traffic, in excess of 75 mph.

Before doing any of this, I upgraded the trans with a billet triple disc TC, a Transgo kit and all new clutches and steels, the engine got a 5" exhaust, Juice and increased boost (up to 33 psi) and the trailer got 16" rims with load range E tires. It pulls much harder, shifts much better and runs much cooler than a stock truck. Nothing beats flying low through UT in 112* heat with the engine at 205*, EGTs at 1180* and ice cubes coming out of the A/C ducts while getting 9.5 mpg! I also added a 60 gal aux tank so I can buy diesel wherever it's cheap, rather than whenever I need it.

Check out post #12. This is from someone thats actually honest!!

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index....howtopic=121452

another good discussion as well...

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index....c=168532&hl=

There ya go. Total honest for ya.

heck, that is me....................

If you are going to do it, don't go with the LE33, for future resale buy one in the 35" range. Trust me, my friend has been trying to sell his 33" for a couple of years, it won't fit most cars. The weight difference between the two is not much.

I am still towing this trailer, but I am upgrading to a bigger truck within weeks, I have never had an issue with towing related and I drive over S2 thru Octillo every trip. The rear axle weight on the truck will be the biggeest concern.

I'm just curious. Who is not being honest?

One other thing that we don't consider, pulling a triple axle trailer is so much nicer than a double axle trailer, the biggest concern is stopping power. Where a couple of years ago it would have been controlling the bigger trailers. Controlling the bigger trailers thru wind is not much of an issue anymore.

I had never had concerns about power and stopping, my biggest was always the rear axle on my truck, but I have towed that same trailer over 18,000 miles with no tires, axle, or drivetrain issues......................enigne on the otherhand is a different story, freakin 6.0!

I tow my Raptor 36' 5er no problem behind my 01 Dodge 2500,QCSB,CTD.Truck has to be one of the shortest(W.B) set-up out there.Truck rides great,even without air-bags.Towing power is great,especially with Edge programmer,as well as the intake and exhaust.A good brake conroller as stated before.But I also tow at the speed limit (55-60).Goodluck and enjoy your 5er,I know we do.The only thing for me is that I may sell mine to get a slightly shorter unit,to make it easier at getting camp spots along the coast.

I just re read that whole thread.

All my numbers I posted are true, and the trailer weights were fully loaded to the max, I never have more than that.

I may be wrong, but I believe your rear axle cap. was calculated based on the tires on it when it was sold. If you upgraded your tires to load range E, then they were good for something like 3800 lbs ea, or 7600 lbs per axle. That's what I run on mine.

CORRECT...........

Lemme put it this way...

Alex is one of the very few peeps that have steped up to the plate, weighed there stuff fullly loaded, and posted the fact they are WAY over weight with their set ups. Thats some brutal honesty right there!!

I weighed my set up fully loaded (F350 crew cab diesel, FS26 WW, four quads, firewood, wife and kids and everything else) and I'm about 400lb UNDER the 20klb GCVWR of my truck.

I was look'n around for a 5th wheel trailer, and man, just about anything decent would put me WAY over the 20k max. I'll just stick with what I have for now...I can't afford a new truck, and I choose not to tow overweight.

I cannot believe that these guys are THAT far over....not that it's a super huge deal but the damn trailers are just SOOOO heavy....it's crazy! I really want a fifth wheel but like rivermobster said....just about anythign will put me over my limit for the truck....SUCKS...but i'm going to be over....i'll just stay in the 33 category that way I will be close.....35 would be over for sure. I have the prodigy brake controller so braking won't be a problem....going to do the bags also to keep the truck nice and level....I already have the "E" rates BFG's just need to get the slider hitch but I am hoping that the trailer will come with one....I really don't see myself EVER having a sand Car, a Rhino or Artic cat is as big as we'll ever go....but I do hope that in the future....when the KIDS are old enought to ride , that i'll have enough room for 4 quads and a rhino/artic cat.....don't see that happeniing in a 3305??? what do you think?

If you aren't planning on buying a 2500 lb sand rail, then you won't be that overweight. You could get a 35' or 37' and still be much closer to your weight rating. Not that I'm concerned about being as far over as I am. Between the 2500 lbs of the rail itself, plus extra rear tires and spare parts and fluids, the total weight of the car and associated stuff is probably 3400 lbs, easy. Take that out of the equation, and with a 40' WW I end up being closer to 600 to 1,000 lbs over the rating, but that's just a guess based on someone else's SLC3905 that was weighed with a jeep in it.

my truck came with E rated tires from the factory, but the GWR for the rear axle is nowhere near what the tires are rated at. hell, im running D rated tires and the rear axle cap is still below what the tires are rated at. i weighed my setup (2006 2500HD crew cab long bed 4x4 duramax, 2003 38ft rampage 5er with alum siding and no slides) with full everything, water, baja bug, predator, atc 90 and 3 people in the truck.......23,400lbs combined. truck rear axle i believe was 6,3XXlbs but is only rated at 6,1XXlbs. the tires are rated to 6,750lbs combined so im fine there. the truck has no issues pulling, stopping, swaying, it just chucks when its not fully loaded up. i do not tow with water however so until i fill that in el centro, im under the trucks GCVWR of 22,500lbs

[quote name='easyrider470' date='Mar 19 2009, 12:25 PM' post='3234428']
ok then i should be just fine with the 3305....or a 3505 if I can get a decent price on one....there are a bunch out there gotta find the right deal. Thanks for the info on the space. I should be just fine with two quads and a rhino or artic cat.....
[/quote


Easyrider,can you tell me where you are seeing these LE 3505's for sale. I've been looking for one. Thanks!

What is the weight difference between a LE3305 and a LE3505? I'm guessing not very much since its the same exact setup, just 2 feet longer. Same fresh water capacity, fuel capacity, gray, black, everything.


Andy

One thing to consider is that the weekend warriors are notorious for being overweight. When you put your stuff in the trailer if it weighs more than the GVWR of the trailer you are officially overweight, regardless of tow vehicle. You could be towing with a F-250, F-350, F-450, or a semi but it won't matter if you're exceeding the trailers GVWR. Why sacrifice on size and floorplan choice if you're still going to be overweight? If you can get the trailer weighed with your stuff loaded before purchase then sacrificing size and floorplan is completely worth it. Otherwise just drive carefully and have fun. You'll love the 5er.

24,500lbs loaded.

John, you got it correct!

It's the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating thats the key to this whole issue. Who cares what your trucks rated to tow. Who cares what your trailer weighs! When you put em together, load everything up, and put that whole mess on the scale, this is the rating you need to be under. A thirty some foot trailer with a sand rail in it, has to be 7 to 9k lb over that rating, just as Alex's is. If you keep this weight in check, you should be ok at each axle.

Good job on getting it right.

No kidding. I saw some inside stickers on Warrior trailers that said they had a cargo capicity of 700lb!!



How bout this one? Can't put much in this baby!!!

Click to view attachment

HAHA thats funny I have been looking at some 5ers and looked on the door and it said I could put like 1000lbs in it. I was like big ARSE trailer for 1K!!

Thanks again for the real life weights and stuff....i cannot believe that Elcaminoman is just barely over weight with the rampage...i always thought that rampage was way heavy.....i must be wrong.....if this is the case then I will do my best to get the biggest trailer possible for our needs and then some....a friend of mine has a LE3505 with the added 2 feet in the back...so that makes it a 3705....the sticker says it's 11,500 empty......I figure my truck with full fuel and my dog the wife and the little one along with all our misc. crap weighs 8800 maybe 9000 so with that trailer and the truck i'm already at 20,000.....so I would be way way over I think.....funny though if Elcamino man is pulling the 38 footer....man each trailer is different I guess...like AlpineFunco said...if I can weigh it first then I am at an advantage....maybe i'll do that.....I need to get the hitch and the bags set-up first then I can pull one or two down to the scales....who knows it may weigh less than the sticker....

hey easyrider, the biggest reasons im not as heavy as one would expect is due to the aluminum siding and no slide outs. the gel siding adds ALOT of weight as well as each slide out. my unloaded wieght on the outside next to the door is just under 10Klbs, GVWR for the trailer is 15,000lbs

also, your truck will probably weigh in around 7500lbs id imagine

heres the setup......

Me and my wife felt the same way, I feel and this is only a feeling is that when we had are F-250 that was a 1999 the 3505 cr model felt heavy coming down steap grades, this trailer was loaded with max fuel and water holding a DD Sand works, We just purchased a 05 F-250 and the trans is completly different and make the trailer feel half the size. The large 5th-er feels easier to pull than are 29 foot bumper pull. Good luck Buy the 3905 you will always want a bigger trailer.

ok I see Elcaminoman....makes sense....the trailer I am looking at is 11,500 and is fiberglass sides....you're right about the added weight....like a ton almost....good lord that is going to cut into my cargo weight.....but i figure with a rhino or artic cat that weighs...what 1300 lbs and two quads...i'm only at 2100....max....that's like 13,600....plus the fuel and all our junk and water i'll be right at the 15,000 limit for the trailer....should be....it may be a little TOO BIG....what do you think elcaminoman....how does the truck pull your ...i'll be almost 1500 lbs heavier....

truck pulls fine, stops amazingly well (alot better than i thought it would), pulls straight as an arrow, even in high winds. i added airbags to my truck to help with the squat that these big 5ers will do to a SRW truck. i also ditched the stock shocks.....they are CRAP!! i wondered if they were even attached to the axle with as much bouncing as i was having.

stick to the speed limit, slow er down if its real windy and just pay attention to whats going on around you when towing and you should be fine. wait to fill with water until your as close to the dunes as possible to save on weight.

these trucks will tow pretty much anything you ask em to....hows about 45ft of gooseneck?

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index....howtopic=149069

More good info in this thread.

Thanks Elcamino man....what shocks did you end up going with..i'm at 30,000 miles and figured I would upgrade them...also searching for the slider hitch....made by pullright...figured i'd spend the money and not have to worry about the sliding ever....oh and did you do the airbags yourself or did a shop do them?

I had a 26" tow before my 5th Wheel 37", the 5th wheel tows so much easier, it is unbelieveable.

Fiberglass sides adds about 1,000lbs when I researched it when I bought my trailer.

bilstein shocks are da chit, i didnt have the $$ for em at the time, ended up with monroe reflex instead which im very happy with. the ride control difference was amazing.

i installed the air bags myself, super easy. i do not have a compressor or tank however, that will add a lil extra work to the job

Ok...cool..but you pulled the trailer without the bags right? Wasn't crazy but had a sag to it...I will be doing the bags this summer when the trailer isn't being used as much....Oh and I will be buying the bilsteins like you suggested...I already have them on order...waiting for them to show up. I've always had good luck with those shocks.

the bags are something you should probably do soon if you will be towing the trailer any long distance. if you have it stored near the dunes then its not as important i suppose. i bought my trailer from a guy in henderson and towed it back to hemet without bags, not really a good time, the headlights were lookin in the sky the whole time.....

I've never towed without air in the bags but it doesn't look like it would be fun. Puts a major sag in the rear end. So much that the jacks on my Weekend Warrior will not go up unless I put about 80lbs. in the bags. ElCamino is right, the stock shocks are junk. I've got them on my truck now. I saw that Bilstein is having a sale until April 30th so I'll be buying set of those.


Andy

Wow....

this is the one and only tow that did not have airbags. its kinda hard to see, but it was squattin pretty good. click on the pics to expand and see detail better

highly suggest the bags for towin a 5er

man, that truck is too clean!

Damn, its hot.


Andy

eh, it was a lil warm, truck ran great tho. was nice n frosty with the ac crankin

hell, how bout this one from last year andy? this was heading out for the june night ride while going thru indio....