06 LTR 450 LOOKING IN TO GETTING ONE OF THESE ANY HOOK UPS HERE
THANKS DEVIN
Full Version: The Power Commander
Talking with some of the quad shops and builders it is a waste of money to put one on. They are saying remove the silencer from the pipe, take off the airbox lid and get a $60 cherry bomb. We did this to the wifes bike and it is a night and day difference. We also did a K & N filter replacing the crappy stock filter.
did that stuff remove the silencer from the pipe, take off the airbox lid and get a $60 cherry bomb. We did this . did not do a a K & N filter replacing the crappy stock filter. just isn't running up to par
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
QUOTE (gils'ltr @ Apr 8 2009, 07:32 PM) 
did that stuff remove the silencer from the pipe, take off the airbox lid and get a $60 cherry bomb. We did this . did not do a a K & N filter replacing the crappy stock filter. just isn't running up to par
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
being an LTR, you could have a fuel filter plugged or an injector dirty. Id look at the filter first.
if you are not running a power commander on a fuel injected bike, and you are doing all the things you said you did, you are running lean, sorry to say. think about it, would you expect a carbed bike to run the same, doing what you just did without rejetting it? i think not.
you need a power commander, a nice dyno tune from somebody like high deset dyno, and your bike will run so much better, you will not believe. if you think that you can remove the air box lid, (increase air flow) and remove the silencer (sparky, increase exhaust flow) and not think you are affecting the tune, well, its your bike.
the leaner you run a motor, the harder it runs. there comes a point in time where its too lean, and you are doing engine damage. such as melting away your piston dome, scorcing valves, etc.
dont be a tight wad, spend the money. get the power commander, get a dyno tune for what you have done, and your bikes engine will thank you.
you need a power commander, a nice dyno tune from somebody like high deset dyno, and your bike will run so much better, you will not believe. if you think that you can remove the air box lid, (increase air flow) and remove the silencer (sparky, increase exhaust flow) and not think you are affecting the tune, well, its your bike.
the leaner you run a motor, the harder it runs. there comes a point in time where its too lean, and you are doing engine damage. such as melting away your piston dome, scorcing valves, etc.
dont be a tight wad, spend the money. get the power commander, get a dyno tune for what you have done, and your bikes engine will thank you.
QUOTE (GWTT @ Apr 8 2009, 08:47 PM)
QUOTE (gils'ltr @ Apr 8 2009, 07:32 PM)
did that stuff remove the silencer from the pipe, take off the airbox lid and get a $60 cherry bomb. We did this . did not do a a K & N filter replacing the crappy stock filter. just isn't running up to par
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
being an LTR, you could have a fuel filter plugged or an injector dirty. Id look at the filter first.
they need a dyno tune and pcIII steven. you and i both know you cant do the mods they did on a carb motor, without a rejet. same follows for an efi motor.
QUOTE (saychz316 @ Apr 8 2009, 08:56 PM)
if you are not running a power commander on a fuel injected bike, and you are doing all the things you said you did, you are running lean, sorry to say. think about it, would you expect a carbed bike to run the same, doing what you just did without rejetting it? i think not.
you need a power commander, a nice dyno tune from somebody like high deset dyno, and your bike will run so much better, you will not believe. if you think that you can remove the air box lid, (increase air flow) and remove the silencer (sparky, increase exhaust flow) and not think you are affecting the tune, well, its your bike.
the leaner you run a motor, the harder it runs. there comes a point in time where its too lean, and you are doing engine damage. such as melting away your piston dome, scorcing valves, etc.
dont be a tight wad, spend the money. get the power commander, get a dyno tune for what you have done, and your bikes engine will thank you.
you need a power commander, a nice dyno tune from somebody like high deset dyno, and your bike will run so much better, you will not believe. if you think that you can remove the air box lid, (increase air flow) and remove the silencer (sparky, increase exhaust flow) and not think you are affecting the tune, well, its your bike.
the leaner you run a motor, the harder it runs. there comes a point in time where its too lean, and you are doing engine damage. such as melting away your piston dome, scorcing valves, etc.
dont be a tight wad, spend the money. get the power commander, get a dyno tune for what you have done, and your bikes engine will thank you.
ummmm..........
The LT-R was designed to be run exacly how he has it. The Cherry Bomb was designed to work with the stock pipe (silencer removed) and the air box lid removed. The CB richens the mixture and bumps the rev limiter. It should run perfect like this, I know mine does, as long as you use premium fuel.
Devin, if your bike is not running right, a PC will not fix it. You need to find out what's going on, before you start making matters worse! New fuel filter would be a good place to start, along with cleaning your air filter. If its still not right after doing these thing, put a new spark plug in it. MAKE SURE your always using top grade premium fuel! (Chevron or Mobil are best).
Let me know where you go from here...
Finally, Rivermobster brought some light to this thread.
As was mentioned the cherry bomb is made for no air lid and the spark arrester removed, but the topic was How was the PCIII.
I run one on my bike and it works awesome. You only need it if you have a pipe that flows enough to require it, a true open filter or more mods( High comp.,porting, cams, etc..)
To others...Don't knock it if you don't understand it. Fi bike needs re-mapping anytime you change the air flow (volumetric efficiency) of the engine. Cars are the same way. All my friends that have other brand 450's love the way my bike runs. When it was broken down recently, there was very little carbon build up, and everything looked great.
Once set up the PCIII allows the bike to run pretty much spot on all the time, no matter what mods you have. And being able to adjust it for altitude is awesome compared to changing any jets. takes alot less time(seconds), and you don't get your hands dirty.
I have run one for close 2.5yrs without one problem.
As was mentioned the cherry bomb is made for no air lid and the spark arrester removed, but the topic was How was the PCIII.
I run one on my bike and it works awesome. You only need it if you have a pipe that flows enough to require it, a true open filter or more mods( High comp.,porting, cams, etc..)
To others...Don't knock it if you don't understand it. Fi bike needs re-mapping anytime you change the air flow (volumetric efficiency) of the engine. Cars are the same way. All my friends that have other brand 450's love the way my bike runs. When it was broken down recently, there was very little carbon build up, and everything looked great.
Once set up the PCIII allows the bike to run pretty much spot on all the time, no matter what mods you have. And being able to adjust it for altitude is awesome compared to changing any jets. takes alot less time(seconds), and you don't get your hands dirty.
I have run one for close 2.5yrs without one problem.
you need something to compensate at all levels of the fi map. thats what you can do with the pcIII. the cherry bomb wont do that. they only make a general compensation.
but hey, its your bike, your motor.
oh, and the ltr motor was designed to work with the airbox lid on, and sparky in. remove those, and you need to compensate for them. just like posted above. but if all the above other things, fuel and air filter, plug, dont help it out, seek a qualified dyno tuner, and a pcIII. a little plug in module that is not prgramable, will never beat a computer that you can remap, and tune to 100% efficency. you could have lean and rich spots in the map, creating the problems you have. i have a pcIII on my raptor, and the maps available from power commander, are even off. you need a guy with the software, and dyno, to tune your bike. I AM NOT LYING TO YOU.
if i was you, i would ditch the cherry bomb, get the pcIII, call daniel at high deset dyno, have him tune yourbike, and be done with it.
any good places to dyno tune around OC area? i put in my pc3 and full yosh exhaust and just uploaded the fuel maps via dynojets website. is that good enough, or should i get it tuned?
the pc3 offers way more than the little cherry bomb. the difference between the power commander and all other forms of fuel controllers is they can be maped at different throttle positions where all the other ones can only be map at 1 whick is full throttle. and high desert dyno does great work. pays attention to fine detail. because even though the power commander can be maped for different throttle positions not all do it becxause it takes longer. daniel from high desert dyno sets for mutible throttle postions.
New fuel filter, cleaned air filter., put a new spark plug in it too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. next is top grade premium fuel! (Chevron or Mobil are best).haven't ran that before but i'll try it this weekend for sure always 87 , 89
thanks guys
devin
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
thanks guys
devin
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
QUOTE (gils'ltr @ Apr 9 2009, 12:11 AM)
New fuel filter, cleaned air filter., put a new spark plug in it too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. next is top grade premium fuel! (Chevron or Mobil are best).haven't ran that before but i'll try it this weekend for sure always 87 , 89
thanks guys
devin
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
thanks guys
devin
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
who did that work??
QUOTE (kennerz @ Apr 8 2009, 10:08 PM)
Finally, Rivermobster brought some light to this thread.
As was mentioned the cherry bomb is made for no air lid and the spark arrester removed, but the topic was How was the PCIII.
I run one on my bike and it works awesome. You only need it if you have a pipe that flows enough to require it, a true open filter or more mods( High comp.,porting, cams, etc..)
To others...Don't knock it if you don't understand it. Fi bike needs re-mapping anytime you change the air flow (volumetric efficiency) of the engine. Cars are the same way. All my friends that have other brand 450's love the way my bike runs. When it was broken down recently, there was very little carbon build up, and everything looked great.
Once set up the PCIII allows the bike to run pretty much spot on all the time, no matter what mods you have. And being able to adjust it for altitude is awesome compared to changing any jets. takes alot less time(seconds), and you don't get your hands dirty.
I have run one for close 2.5yrs without one problem.
As was mentioned the cherry bomb is made for no air lid and the spark arrester removed, but the topic was How was the PCIII.
I run one on my bike and it works awesome. You only need it if you have a pipe that flows enough to require it, a true open filter or more mods( High comp.,porting, cams, etc..)
To others...Don't knock it if you don't understand it. Fi bike needs re-mapping anytime you change the air flow (volumetric efficiency) of the engine. Cars are the same way. All my friends that have other brand 450's love the way my bike runs. When it was broken down recently, there was very little carbon build up, and everything looked great.
Once set up the PCIII allows the bike to run pretty much spot on all the time, no matter what mods you have. And being able to adjust it for altitude is awesome compared to changing any jets. takes alot less time(seconds), and you don't get your hands dirty.
I have run one for close 2.5yrs without one problem.
Well said.
I have a PC on my V-Rod. Had it dyno'd a Johnsons Machine Service. Runs kick (_|_), I would never do any real engine mods without one.
QUOTE (saychz316 @ Apr 8 2009, 10:24 PM)
you need something to compensate at all levels of the fi map. thats what you can do with the pcIII. the cherry bomb wont do that. they only make a general compensation.
but hey, its your bike, your motor.
oh, and the ltr motor was designed to work with the airbox lid on, and sparky in. remove those, and you need to compensate for them. just like posted above. but if all the above other things, fuel and air filter, plug, dont help it out, seek a qualified dyno tuner, and a pcIII. a little plug in module that is not prgramable, will never beat a computer that you can remap, and tune to 100% efficency. you could have lean and rich spots in the map, creating the problems you have. i have a pcIII on my raptor, and the maps available from power commander, are even off. you need a guy with the software, and dyno, to tune your bike. I AM NOT LYING TO YOU.
if i was you, i would ditch the cherry bomb, get the pcIII, call daniel at high deset dyno, have him tune yourbike, and be done with it.
but hey, its your bike, your motor.
oh, and the ltr motor was designed to work with the airbox lid on, and sparky in. remove those, and you need to compensate for them. just like posted above. but if all the above other things, fuel and air filter, plug, dont help it out, seek a qualified dyno tuner, and a pcIII. a little plug in module that is not prgramable, will never beat a computer that you can remap, and tune to 100% efficency. you could have lean and rich spots in the map, creating the problems you have. i have a pcIII on my raptor, and the maps available from power commander, are even off. you need a guy with the software, and dyno, to tune your bike. I AM NOT LYING TO YOU.
if i was you, i would ditch the cherry bomb, get the pcIII, call daniel at high deset dyno, have him tune yourbike, and be done with it.
the PC does NOT raise the rev limit on this bike. the cherry bomb does. loose the bomb, and you loose the extended rev limit, and the richer fuel map the bomb unlocks in the stock EFI unit.
If you want an in depth discussion on how the LT-R works, take some time and read this thread. Lots of good info here: http://www.ltr450hq.com/forums/engine-efi-...ion-needed.html
QUOTE (jsalazar903 @ Apr 8 2009, 10:36 PM)
any good places to dyno tune around OC area? i put in my pc3 and full yosh exhaust and just uploaded the fuel maps via dynojets website. is that good enough, or should i get it tuned?
It's always best to have your set-up, set-up just for you! Find someone with a DynoJet dyno, that had the eddy current option, an a/f meter, and the full feedback system to auto tune the PC. And, a guy who knows how to use it all!!!
These bikes do NOT like to be run lean....
QUOTE (rivermobster @ Apr 9 2009, 09:27 AM)
QUOTE (saychz316 @ Apr 8 2009, 10:24 PM)
you need something to compensate at all levels of the fi map. thats what you can do with the pcIII. the cherry bomb wont do that. they only make a general compensation.
but hey, its your bike, your motor.
oh, and the ltr motor was designed to work with the airbox lid on, and sparky in. remove those, and you need to compensate for them. just like posted above. but if all the above other things, fuel and air filter, plug, dont help it out, seek a qualified dyno tuner, and a pcIII. a little plug in module that is not prgramable, will never beat a computer that you can remap, and tune to 100% efficency. you could have lean and rich spots in the map, creating the problems you have. i have a pcIII on my raptor, and the maps available from power commander, are even off. you need a guy with the software, and dyno, to tune your bike. I AM NOT LYING TO YOU.
if i was you, i would ditch the cherry bomb, get the pcIII, call daniel at high deset dyno, have him tune yourbike, and be done with it.
but hey, its your bike, your motor.
oh, and the ltr motor was designed to work with the airbox lid on, and sparky in. remove those, and you need to compensate for them. just like posted above. but if all the above other things, fuel and air filter, plug, dont help it out, seek a qualified dyno tuner, and a pcIII. a little plug in module that is not prgramable, will never beat a computer that you can remap, and tune to 100% efficency. you could have lean and rich spots in the map, creating the problems you have. i have a pcIII on my raptor, and the maps available from power commander, are even off. you need a guy with the software, and dyno, to tune your bike. I AM NOT LYING TO YOU.
if i was you, i would ditch the cherry bomb, get the pcIII, call daniel at high deset dyno, have him tune yourbike, and be done with it.
the PC does NOT raise the rev limit on this bike. the cherry bomb does. loose the bomb, and you loose the extended rev limit, and the richer fuel map the bomb unlocks in the stock EFI unit.
If you want an in depth discussion on how the LT-R works, take some time and read this thread. Lots of good info here: http://www.ltr450hq.com/forums/engine-efi-...ion-needed.html
word. You dont need a pc if your just running cherry bomb/sparky removed/airbox lid off. It should run awesome just like you have it. there is something wrong. If you are not running premium fuel, that will definately cause it to run bad. Otherwise it should run perfect.
I've been running my '07 with the CB, air box lid off, spark arrestor out and 91 Octane for the last year without any problems. I have noticed if the air filter isn't clean the performance drops off dramatically. I have two air filters and just swap a clean one out every trip.
QUOTE (GPR721 @ Apr 9 2009, 10:42 AM)
I've been running my '07 with the CB, air box lid off, spark arrestor out and 91 Octane for the last year without any problems. I have noticed if the air filter isn't clean the performance drops off dramatically. I have two air filters and just swap a clean one out every trip.
good idea!!!
i have the fuel air filter kit, but im not puttin it on until i get a pipe and a PC3. but it runs so damm good just like it is, im hesitant to do anything else!!
QUOTE (gils'ltr @ Apr 9 2009, 12:11 AM)
New fuel filter, cleaned air filter., put a new spark plug in it too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. next is top grade premium fuel! (Chevron or Mobil are best).haven't ran that before but i'll try it this weekend for sure always 87 , 89
thanks guys
devin
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
thanks guys
devin
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
You need to run 91 octane. The motors ping and detonate with anything less. I run race fuel because I have to, but before that I always ran Chevron 91 octane.
QUOTE (desertbound @ Apr 9 2009, 10:53 AM)
You need to run 91 octane. The motors ping and detonate with anything less. I run race fuel because I have to, but before that I always ran Chevron 91 octane.
X2, even says run at least 90 Octane on the Warning Sticker on the tank.
QUOTE (gils'ltr @ Apr 9 2009, 12:11 AM)
New fuel filter, cleaned air filter., put a new spark plug in it too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. next is top grade premium fuel! (Chevron or Mobil are best).haven't ran that before but i'll try it this weekend for sure always 87 , 89
thanks guys
devin
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
thanks guys
devin
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
BIG
Now knowing that you have been using foul octane fuel. I wouldnt be surpised if the Injector is Gummed up or the filter is. Also being poor fuel grade the tank may have sand or something else.As for the cherry bomb issues. If its just stock air lid off and cork popped out it should run fine. Suzuki will warrenty that. when You add a larger flowing exhaust and different intake right then and there you may have issues. I've not hurd one failure of an engine with the cherry bomb w/ airbox lid removed and corked pulled. Now if he's racing like me, thats a whole different ball game and are not compairing apples to apples.
QUOTE (GWTT @ Apr 9 2009, 11:36 AM)
QUOTE (gils'ltr @ Apr 9 2009, 12:11 AM)
New fuel filter, cleaned air filter., put a new spark plug in it too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. next is top grade premium fuel! (Chevron or Mobil are best).haven't ran that before but i'll try it this weekend for sure always 87 , 89
thanks guys
devin
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
thanks guys
devin
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
BIG
Now knowing that you have been using foul octane fuel. I wouldnt be surpised if the Injector is Gummed up or the filter is. Also being poor fuel grade the tank may have sand or something else.As for the cherry bomb issues. If its just stock air lid off and cork popped out it should run fine. Suzuki will warrenty that. when You add a larger flowing exhaust and different intake right then and there you may have issues. I've not hurd one failure of an engine with the cherry bomb w/ airbox lid removed and corked pulled. Now if he's racing like me, thats a whole different ball game and are not compairing apples to apples.
True. Once you've crashed your quad a few times, they never run the same no matter what...
QUOTE (GWTT @ Apr 9 2009, 11:36 AM)
QUOTE (gils'ltr @ Apr 9 2009, 12:11 AM)
New fuel filter, cleaned air filter., put a new spark plug in it too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. next is top grade premium fuel! (Chevron or Mobil are best).haven't ran that before but i'll try it this weekend for sure always 87 , 89
thanks guys
devin
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
thanks guys
devin
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
BIG
Now knowing that you have been using foul octane fuel. I wouldnt be surpised if the Injector is Gummed up or the filter is. Also being poor fuel grade the tank may have sand or something else.As for the cherry bomb issues. If its just stock air lid off and cork popped out it should run fine. Suzuki will warrenty that. when You add a larger flowing exhaust and different intake right then and there you may have issues. I've not hurd one failure of an engine with the cherry bomb w/ airbox lid removed and corked pulled. Now if he's racing like me, thats a whole different ball game and are not compairing apples to apples.
I'm hoping for sarcasm...
Because what the hell does a fuel's octane rating have to do with those? I run the cheap stuff in my truck and jet ski, works fine.
He probably hasn't hurt a thing considering he never hammers on the things like most folks. Bike is usually cruising the dunes, so I doubt enough heat or RPMs have been generated to destroy it. 91 would be the best safe bet however, it would be wise to make the switch.
Cherry bomb setup is pretty cool, I'm partial to doing full exhaust systems and tuning the bike. That's just me though.
he's actually correct marcus, the lower grade fuels do not have the detergents and aditives that the top grade fuels do, to keep injectors clean. carbs dont need these kinna fuels, so you can get buy without em. EFI needs top grade fuels.
http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html
http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html
QUOTE (nosocks @ Apr 9 2009, 12:27 PM)
QUOTE (GWTT @ Apr 9 2009, 11:36 AM)
QUOTE (gils'ltr @ Apr 9 2009, 12:11 AM)
New fuel filter, cleaned air filter., put a new spark plug in it too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. next is top grade premium fuel! (Chevron or Mobil are best).haven't ran that before but i'll try it this weekend for sure always 87 , 89
thanks guys
devin
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
thanks guys
devin
had that valves checked and the bike was serviced too runs alot better but still not the same
BIG
Now knowing that you have been using foul octane fuel. I wouldnt be surpised if the Injector is Gummed up or the filter is. Also being poor fuel grade the tank may have sand or something else.As for the cherry bomb issues. If its just stock air lid off and cork popped out it should run fine. Suzuki will warrenty that. when You add a larger flowing exhaust and different intake right then and there you may have issues. I've not hurd one failure of an engine with the cherry bomb w/ airbox lid removed and corked pulled. Now if he's racing like me, thats a whole different ball game and are not compairing apples to apples.
I'm hoping for sarcasm...
Because what the hell does a fuel's octane rating have to do with those? I run the cheap stuff in my truck and jet ski, works fine.
He probably hasn't hurt a thing considering he never hammers on the things like most folks. Bike is usually cruising the dunes, so I doubt enough heat or RPMs have been generated to destroy it. 91 would be the best safe bet however, it would be wise to make the switch.
Cherry bomb setup is pretty cool, I'm partial to doing full exhaust systems and tuning the bike. That's just me though.
your truck and jet ski makers dont make there machine have the comp rate like a 450 has!
man,,when are all these freekin fuel controller companies go the route of the car and truck tuners? 4-7 levels of horspower increases, rev limiter increase, dianostics etc?
you gotta be a freekin scientist to work some of that crap
you gotta be a freekin scientist to work some of that crap
QUOTE (richard cheese @ Apr 9 2009, 01:22 PM)
man,,when are all these freekin fuel controller companies go the route of the car and truck tuners? 4-7 levels of horspower increases, rev limiter increase, dianostics etc?
you gotta be a freekin scientist to work some of that crap
you gotta be a freekin scientist to work some of that crap
The biggest problem with the off-road bike tuners is a lack of an O2 sensor, so it is an open loop system and the programmer can only adjust so many parameters, with a closed loop system the O2 sensor feeds back info on lean/rich conditions and can adjust accordingly.
QUOTE (krustyone @ Apr 9 2009, 01:35 PM)
QUOTE (richard cheese @ Apr 9 2009, 01:22 PM)
man,,when are all these freekin fuel controller companies go the route of the car and truck tuners? 4-7 levels of horspower increases, rev limiter increase, dianostics etc?
you gotta be a freekin scientist to work some of that crap
you gotta be a freekin scientist to work some of that crap
The biggest problem with the off-road bike tuners is a lack of an O2 sensor, so it is an open loop system and the programmer can only adjust so many parameters, with a closed loop system the O2 sensor feeds back info on lean/rich conditions and can adjust accordingly.
Yoshimira is working on a kit as we speak
for EFI Atv's and bikes. running cheap stuff is desgined for your car. if you look at your fuel door it will say minimum fuel grade. my truck says 87. the caddy says 91 along with my moms lexus. The LTR and other atv's say use 91 minimum. lower grade fuel will result in higher cylinder temps and dentination. My chevy truck has 8.5:1 compression while stock yamaha 450 is 11.3:1 (2006 M/Y) lower compression you can run a lower octane. If you dont follow manufacture's instructions you should expect problems.
yoshi is in the stoneage if they really are Just gettin around to this! there are lots of closed loop systems for off-road applications out there already, and have been out there for awhile now.
HDWrench is way into this stuff...bastard hit me between the eyes with it on another board. he was posting under a differnt nick, so i didnt know it was him!! he got me good..............
HDWrench is way into this stuff...bastard hit me between the eyes with it on another board. he was posting under a differnt nick, so i didnt know it was him!! he got me good..............
ok i got 91 today will have a ride report on tuesday ..... thanks for all good info as allways here
thanks again devin
thanks again devin
yeah i met that guy very nice guy ( HDWrench )
QUOTE (gils'ltr @ Apr 9 2009, 03:00 PM)
yeah i met that guy very nice guy ( HDWrench )
He's a dick, and you can tell him I said so!!!
power commander just released the pc5 that offers a auto tune program.
and on a side note have any of u owners with the cherry bomb and intake and exhaust put it on a dyno to see what the a/f ratio actully looks like?
and on a side note have any of u owners with the cherry bomb and intake and exhaust put it on a dyno to see what the a/f ratio actully looks like?
QUOTE (1904dunegoon @ Apr 9 2009, 05:33 PM)
power commander just released the pc5 that offers a auto tune program.
and on a side note have any of u owners with the cherry bomb and intake and exhaust put it on a dyno to see what the a/f ratio actully looks like?
and on a side note have any of u owners with the cherry bomb and intake and exhaust put it on a dyno to see what the a/f ratio actully looks like?
Street Bike only...
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommand...nformation.aspx
just to clairfy...
IF you use a DIFFERERNT intake and exh system, the CB alone will not get the job done. The CB was designed (by suzuki and yoshi) to work with the lid off and the stock exh. with the restricter removed. No reason to spend the money to verify a set-up like this. Mine runs like a dream for me.
Click to view attachment
the pcv is now out for the raptor 700 and yfz450r. maybe if enough of you ltr owners give pc a email they will get one going for u.
http://www.tqsatv.com/proddetail.php?prod=...ander-5-pc5-pcv
http://www.tqsatv.com/proddetail.php?prod=...ander-5-pc5-pcv
QUOTE (rivermobster @ Apr 9 2009, 02:57 PM)
yoshi is in the stoneage if they really are Just gettin around to this! there are lots of closed loop systems for off-road applications out there already, and have been out there for awhile now.
HDWrench is way into this stuff...bastard hit me between the eyes with it on another board. he was posting under a differnt nick, so i didnt know it was him!! he got me good..............
HDWrench is way into this stuff...bastard hit me between the eyes with it on another board. he was posting under a differnt nick, so i didnt know it was him!! he got me good..............
yea well, when you want something good for cheap, it takes time. ya know. Just think how carbs went to TBI then to direct port injection. get rid of distributors and points. it takes time thats all. and money
QUOTE (1904dunegoon @ Apr 9 2009, 07:39 PM)
the pcv is now out for the raptor 700 and yfz450r. maybe if enough of you ltr owners give pc a email they will get one going for u.
http://www.tqsatv.com/proddetail.php?prod=...ander-5-pc5-pcv
http://www.tqsatv.com/proddetail.php?prod=...ander-5-pc5-pcv
funny thats not on dynojets web site. for $500+, i think ill take mine to a dyno tuner!!!
RM is being very nice I see 
anyways I build engines and tune for a living. So first off before you start throwing parts at a bike to fix it you must first make sure that you have a correct running engine. good compression , and leak down, correct fuel pressure. Provided the engine is running as it should then on to a tune. I have used just about all of the DFO boxs out there, and the PC units, along with other software that is extremely advanced compared to the others.
Now as well to make a blanket statement that a bike is running lean is incorrect, some do and some don't, what mods where done etc. Long story without knowing what the afr is you are groping blindly in the dark. That works for rivermobsters with his partner but may not work for every one
I have also used the new PCV I can say that it is not impressive at all in fact it can create some issues due to the lack of feedback time. It has to be able to get enough feedback from a cell to be able to properly adjust afr. Then you have the issue of the system always re adjusting, and the 02 sensors degrading which then it will start adjusting leaner. Those are fact just the way it is.
Once you tune the bike you are done. A dyno tune for your set up is the best way to go. Funny how dynojet will talk out of both sides of there face. Dyno tune is the best but here is a system that will get you close ( pc V) and if you really want to dial it put it on a dyno WTF???
Two options take it to a tuner
Or buy the PC and buy a stand alone data acquisition system and go tune the bike yourself.
Nuf said. Gotta engines to tune. Take care guys. and RM
anyways I build engines and tune for a living. So first off before you start throwing parts at a bike to fix it you must first make sure that you have a correct running engine. good compression , and leak down, correct fuel pressure. Provided the engine is running as it should then on to a tune. I have used just about all of the DFO boxs out there, and the PC units, along with other software that is extremely advanced compared to the others.
Now as well to make a blanket statement that a bike is running lean is incorrect, some do and some don't, what mods where done etc. Long story without knowing what the afr is you are groping blindly in the dark. That works for rivermobsters with his partner but may not work for every one
I have also used the new PCV I can say that it is not impressive at all in fact it can create some issues due to the lack of feedback time. It has to be able to get enough feedback from a cell to be able to properly adjust afr. Then you have the issue of the system always re adjusting, and the 02 sensors degrading which then it will start adjusting leaner. Those are fact just the way it is.
Once you tune the bike you are done. A dyno tune for your set up is the best way to go. Funny how dynojet will talk out of both sides of there face. Dyno tune is the best but here is a system that will get you close ( pc V) and if you really want to dial it put it on a dyno WTF???
Two options take it to a tuner
Or buy the PC and buy a stand alone data acquisition system and go tune the bike yourself.
Nuf said. Gotta engines to tune. Take care guys. and RM
SEE??? I told ya he is a DICK!!!
but the guy does know what he's talkin about, he does this stuff for a living. we've had some good long talks about EFI tuning and feedback, and he always insists he is right. :rollyeyes: (e really is, but dont tell the douche bag i said that)
dyno is best with a PC3 AND the correct dyno and opperator. i like this option, cause once you find a guy that does this stuff day in and day out, well, experience wins every time.
thanks for stopin by wrench...
but the guy does know what he's talkin about, he does this stuff for a living. we've had some good long talks about EFI tuning and feedback, and he always insists he is right. :rollyeyes: (e really is, but dont tell the douche bag i said that)
dyno is best with a PC3 AND the correct dyno and opperator. i like this option, cause once you find a guy that does this stuff day in and day out, well, experience wins every time.
thanks for stopin by wrench...
QUOTE (rivermobster @ Apr 10 2009, 08:56 AM)
QUOTE (1904dunegoon @ Apr 9 2009, 07:39 PM)
the pcv is now out for the raptor 700 and yfz450r. maybe if enough of you ltr owners give pc a email they will get one going for u.
http://www.tqsatv.com/proddetail.php?prod=...ander-5-pc5-pcv
http://www.tqsatv.com/proddetail.php?prod=...ander-5-pc5-pcv
funny thats not on dynojets web site. for $500+, i think ill take mine to a dyno tuner!!!
well considering you would pay almost 300 for a reg pc3 and then 150+ for a tune its not that bad. and great for fokes that arent by a good dyno tuner
QUOTE (HDWRENCH @ Apr 10 2009, 09:36 AM)
RM is being very nice I see
anyways I build engines and tune for a living. So first off before you start throwing parts at a bike to fix it you must first make sure that you have a correct running engine. good compression , and leak down, correct fuel pressure. Provided the engine is running as it should then on to a tune. I have used just about all of the DFO boxs out there, and the PC units, along with other software that is extremely advanced compared to the others.
Now as well to make a blanket statement that a bike is running lean is incorrect, some do and some don't, what mods where done etc. Long story without knowing what the afr is you are groping blindly in the dark. That works for rivermobsters with his partner but may not work for every one
I have also used the new PCV I can say that it is not impressive at all in fact it can create some issues due to the lack of feedback time. It has to be able to get enough feedback from a cell to be able to properly adjust afr. Then you have the issue of the system always re adjusting, and the 02 sensors degrading which then it will start adjusting leaner. Those are fact just the way it is.
Once you tune the bike you are done. A dyno tune for your set up is the best way to go. Funny how dynojet will talk out of both sides of there face. Dyno tune is the best but here is a system that will get you close ( pc V) and if you really want to dial it put it on a dyno WTF???
Two options take it to a tuner
Or buy the PC and buy a stand alone data acquisition system and go tune the bike yourself.
Nuf said. Gotta engines to tune. Take care guys. and RM
anyways I build engines and tune for a living. So first off before you start throwing parts at a bike to fix it you must first make sure that you have a correct running engine. good compression , and leak down, correct fuel pressure. Provided the engine is running as it should then on to a tune. I have used just about all of the DFO boxs out there, and the PC units, along with other software that is extremely advanced compared to the others.
Now as well to make a blanket statement that a bike is running lean is incorrect, some do and some don't, what mods where done etc. Long story without knowing what the afr is you are groping blindly in the dark. That works for rivermobsters with his partner but may not work for every one
I have also used the new PCV I can say that it is not impressive at all in fact it can create some issues due to the lack of feedback time. It has to be able to get enough feedback from a cell to be able to properly adjust afr. Then you have the issue of the system always re adjusting, and the 02 sensors degrading which then it will start adjusting leaner. Those are fact just the way it is.
Once you tune the bike you are done. A dyno tune for your set up is the best way to go. Funny how dynojet will talk out of both sides of there face. Dyno tune is the best but here is a system that will get you close ( pc V) and if you really want to dial it put it on a dyno WTF???
Two options take it to a tuner
Or buy the PC and buy a stand alone data acquisition system and go tune the bike yourself.
Nuf said. Gotta engines to tune. Take care guys. and RM
what about if you let it make a map with the auto tune and then turn it off so its not always trying to adjust for small ammounts? i mean i agree getting a real tune is best and what i will continue to do.
QUOTE (rivermobster @ Apr 9 2009, 01:11 PM)
he's actually correct marcus, the lower grade fuels do not have the detergents and aditives that the top grade fuels do, to keep injectors clean. carbs dont need these kinna fuels, so you can get buy without em. EFI needs top grade fuels.
http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html
http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html
Octane and fuel quality are 2 different things....
So once again, one of these things just doesn't belong here. In the state of California we have more additives and crapola than any other place in the world thanks to Commifornia and CARB.
QUOTE (nosocks @ Apr 10 2009, 12:02 PM)
QUOTE (rivermobster @ Apr 9 2009, 01:11 PM)
he's actually correct marcus, the lower grade fuels do not have the detergents and aditives that the top grade fuels do, to keep injectors clean. carbs dont need these kinna fuels, so you can get buy without em. EFI needs top grade fuels.
http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html
http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html
Octane and fuel quality are 2 different things....
So once again, one of these things just doesn't belong here. In the state of California we have more additives and crapola than any other place in the world thanks to Commifornia and CARB.
they go hand in hand. low cotane fuels DO NOT have the additives higher octane fuels do, cause they KNOW your not puttin high octaine fuel in your carburated hundai!!!
there is a good reason they are inexpensive...
HE HE Thank JOE
Ok Here is the biggest issue. When you run the engine ( these are just air pumps , dont forget that) on a dyno I am able to hold the TPS at a given % at a given rpm so I can see what the afr is doing at that spot, then on tothe next ( called a step test) then once you get the low end done you move on to a sweep test. I engage the brake at a given rpm , move to a given tps % release brake hold the throttle at that TPS for the entire run and then make the correction to the afr. Now with a auto tuner ( i have use t-max, DTT, PCV, and others) they are only going to tune where you ride the bike and when they have enough data to alter the afr. The biggest issue on the low end is that the wide band is low reading , not a issue on a dyno but normal riding it can be. Now with enough data time that get it closer and closer. ( dont forget that you must have a 02 bung in the pipe) on to reversion, a auto tune system does not know what is right or wrong only what it reads so they can be fooled along the way.
Race fuel is a issue with the sensor the new unleaded race fuel is better to use. Some guys get away with it other not so lucky, as well when a 02 sensor fails it will default to a lean afr. Heat will effect long term accuracy of the 02 as well. Over heat them and they fail or .... fail to read acurrately.
now i can tune a bike on the dyno, then go ride it and find that if I really want to get some more out of it there may be some very fine tweaking that can be done, reason for this is that on the dyno we are using load control, and the way the PC works is tps over RPM so with out a map sensor the ecm does not know what load is. yet you can end up being a bit outside the "tuned" area if the tuner really did not give you a 100% worth of his time.
base maps are starting points nothing more, too many variables from one engine to the next to really share a map. Just the way it is, i wish it where closer but in the real world it does not work that way.
I ask how the guys rides, what doe he weigh, ( on bikes amount of two riding, trailer?? side car?? ) as the pc is basic tuner, but for the quads at this point the best thing going.
I spend several hours on the dyno tuning a bike. A 30 minute tune job is more than likely WFO only.... I can tell you that a good tune will give you great low end throttle response, good fuel milage, will pull hard through out the entire RPM range. On avg I can pick up over 10% with a tune.
Ok Here is the biggest issue. When you run the engine ( these are just air pumps , dont forget that) on a dyno I am able to hold the TPS at a given % at a given rpm so I can see what the afr is doing at that spot, then on tothe next ( called a step test) then once you get the low end done you move on to a sweep test. I engage the brake at a given rpm , move to a given tps % release brake hold the throttle at that TPS for the entire run and then make the correction to the afr. Now with a auto tuner ( i have use t-max, DTT, PCV, and others) they are only going to tune where you ride the bike and when they have enough data to alter the afr. The biggest issue on the low end is that the wide band is low reading , not a issue on a dyno but normal riding it can be. Now with enough data time that get it closer and closer. ( dont forget that you must have a 02 bung in the pipe) on to reversion, a auto tune system does not know what is right or wrong only what it reads so they can be fooled along the way.
Race fuel is a issue with the sensor the new unleaded race fuel is better to use. Some guys get away with it other not so lucky, as well when a 02 sensor fails it will default to a lean afr. Heat will effect long term accuracy of the 02 as well. Over heat them and they fail or .... fail to read acurrately.
now i can tune a bike on the dyno, then go ride it and find that if I really want to get some more out of it there may be some very fine tweaking that can be done, reason for this is that on the dyno we are using load control, and the way the PC works is tps over RPM so with out a map sensor the ecm does not know what load is. yet you can end up being a bit outside the "tuned" area if the tuner really did not give you a 100% worth of his time.
base maps are starting points nothing more, too many variables from one engine to the next to really share a map. Just the way it is, i wish it where closer but in the real world it does not work that way.
I ask how the guys rides, what doe he weigh, ( on bikes amount of two riding, trailer?? side car?? ) as the pc is basic tuner, but for the quads at this point the best thing going.
I spend several hours on the dyno tuning a bike. A 30 minute tune job is more than likely WFO only.... I can tell you that a good tune will give you great low end throttle response, good fuel milage, will pull hard through out the entire RPM range. On avg I can pick up over 10% with a tune.
Personally, I cant understand why anyone would WANT a feedback system on a performance machine. 02 sensors were originally created to keep catalitic converters from overheating. (In other words, to keep the fuel mixture lean) When your at WOT, there is no feedback anyway, so why the hell bother with it!!! 
I bought the year V-Rod I did, cause was the last year they used a non-feedback system, and a no drive by wire throttle control. I did not want that crap on my bike.
A good MAP, created by an experienced dyno tuner, would be the best set-up for an off-road machine.
This is my personal opinion only. No animals were harmed in the making.
I bought the year V-Rod I did, cause was the last year they used a non-feedback system, and a no drive by wire throttle control. I did not want that crap on my bike.
A good MAP, created by an experienced dyno tuner, would be the best set-up for an off-road machine.
This is my personal opinion only. No animals were harmed in the making.
WOW............... WELL THE BIKE RAN MUCH BETTER.. BUT STILL CUT OUT ALITTLE AT THE TOP END WHEN IT GOT WARM ......WHAT ADITIVES WOULD BE GOOD TO ADD TO A TANK OF GAS ???????????????THANKS EVERYONE FOR ALL THE INFO .......
Gil if you give me a ring I have a nice map for you to try in your LTR !!!!!
COOL THANKS H.D.W.
QUOTE (gils'ltr @ Apr 14 2009, 06:08 PM)
WOW............... WELL THE BIKE RAN MUCH BETTER.. BUT STILL CUT OUT ALITTLE AT THE TOP END WHEN IT GOT WARM ......WHAT ADITIVES WOULD BE GOOD TO ADD TO A TANK OF GAS ???????????????THANKS EVERYONE FOR ALL THE INFO .......
Use that Chevron Techroline additive. It actually does clean up your injectors!
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