http://www.duners.org/about.htm
Full Version: Omg...have You Seen All The Closures?
Look at this...all the areas closed since 1974...look at all that is left to us...
http://www.duners.org/about.htm
http://www.duners.org/about.htm
and of course the BLM webpage is useless...
BLM
why is it that the links to the maps are dead...convenient?
BLM
why is it that the links to the maps are dead...convenient?
this should wake you UP...look how much is actually left to ride in...
I remeber as a kid we could ride anywhere...now look
More closures
I remeber as a kid we could ride anywhere...now look
More closures
Frog,
WTF have you been the last 4 years?
That map was done by Vince Brunasso and Jason Hitesman a few years back.
WTF have you been the last 4 years?
That map was done by Vince Brunasso and Jason Hitesman a few years back.
Actually Vince put together the original map:
And I believe that Banshee Bob (not me) did the new cleaned up version:
The maps I've done pretty much were just to show where PMV lies compared to the closures supposedly there to protect it and to show how the [url]http://hitesman.com/jason/sanddunes/cbd_hike.jpg]CBD's hike[/url] to show PMV to reporters was carefully planned to avoid areas of high PMV concentration so they could act all surprised and excited that they actually got to see one or two plants.
And I believe that Banshee Bob (not me) did the new cleaned up version:
The maps I've done pretty much were just to show where PMV lies compared to the closures supposedly there to protect it and to show how the [url]http://hitesman.com/jason/sanddunes/cbd_hike.jpg]CBD's hike[/url] to show PMV to reporters was carefully planned to avoid areas of high PMV concentration so they could act all surprised and excited that they actually got to see one or two plants.
There are also some interesting maps here:
http://www.americansandassociation.org/php...=view_album.php
That Vince put together to show just how big 50 square miles (the size of the existing wilderness area) is and how big the ISDRA is compared to areas in So. Cal.
http://www.americansandassociation.org/php...=view_album.php
That Vince put together to show just how big 50 square miles (the size of the existing wilderness area) is and how big the ISDRA is compared to areas in So. Cal.
I knew that a lot had been closed, but did not "KNOW" how much had actually been closed until I saw some maps...GAWD DAMN....that is a lot of riding space gone...
According to Dannyboy Patterson of the CBD, we still have HALF of the dunes left.
Does it look like half to you?
Or less?
BTW, the FWS is got to give a decision on delisting the pmv by the end of May.
Jason, thanks for correcting me, again!
Does it look like half to you?
Or less?
BTW, the FWS is got to give a decision on delisting the pmv by the end of May.
Jason, thanks for correcting me, again!
Welcome to the board, Frog... This is a very active subject here...
Phoenix? I think we've got some folks in Phoenix!
Gonna have to get you out to Glamis before it's ALL shut down!
The Pastor
Phoenix? I think we've got some folks in Phoenix!
Gonna have to get you out to Glamis before it's ALL shut down!
The Pastor
Thanks Pastor...
Living in Arizona and being a 3rd generation "sand rat"...
I want to be able to share the experince with my 5 children...
man, I remember my grandmother taking me out to the edge of
the dunes in her trailer to collect lava rocks for gardenscapes...
Now with "what looks like 90%" of the Imperial Sand Dunes CLOSED to OHV use,
I am thinking about keeping all my business out of the "Communist Republic of California"...and finding alternative riding areas..
How about the BLM actually supporting the OHV users
for a change, instead of the environmentalist!
The OHV users are actually spending the MONEY in California for the use of the I.S.D.R.A.
How much/often do the enviromentalist pay to use the I.S.D. compared to the
OHV community?
Living in Arizona and being a 3rd generation "sand rat"...
I want to be able to share the experince with my 5 children...
man, I remember my grandmother taking me out to the edge of
the dunes in her trailer to collect lava rocks for gardenscapes...
Now with "what looks like 90%" of the Imperial Sand Dunes CLOSED to OHV use,
I am thinking about keeping all my business out of the "Communist Republic of California"...and finding alternative riding areas..
How about the BLM actually supporting the OHV users
for a change, instead of the environmentalist!
The OHV users are actually spending the MONEY in California for the use of the I.S.D.R.A.
How much/often do the enviromentalist pay to use the I.S.D. compared to the
OHV community?
So there is now probably double the amount of people going to the dunes since 1980, and half of what we used to ride on. (2 x More people) x (less riding area) = more accidents, and they wonder whats happening, why are so many people dying.
Jason
Jason
| QUOTE (jwfab1 @ Feb 20 2004, 05:36 PM) |
| (2 x More people) x (less riding area) = more accidents, and they wonder whats happening, why are so many people dying. |
man Jason, you can do the math...but our gov cannot...
I used to go to Comp hill with my dad as a little kid...man what a blast...not too crowded...he used to spend all his time working on our buggies and ATC just for those weekends...man I used to love watching all those ppl trying to get up that thing...
The California Coastal Commission has proposed that the seasonal closing of certain areas of Oceano Dunes State Vehicular Recreation Area become year-round. Additionally, the Commission is beginning a study of night OHV use that could lead to a ban on night-time riding.
ARRA website
ARRA website
I could care less who made the map, just that it sucks to look at. Not everyone lives on the net, and its nice that someone new posted them. A reminder to everyone. What closures has the asa lifted? 
I've seen more closures since they started, more curfews on certain areas, more over-enforcement, higher fee's......need I continue? At least some on there baord with all the conflict of interest issues sleep well at night because there business is open another day! Enough of disney is open to keep selling those buggies and products.
I've seen more closures since they started, more curfews on certain areas, more over-enforcement, higher fee's......need I continue? At least some on there baord with all the conflict of interest issues sleep well at night because there business is open another day! Enough of disney is open to keep selling those buggies and products.
CHECK IT OUT.
http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index....showtopic=17078
LATER DON~~~
http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index....showtopic=17078
LATER DON~~~
| QUOTE |
| What closures has the asa lifted? |
The ASA can't open any land. The BLM and FWS can and that is what the lawsuits have been an attempt to get done. But hey, it's much better to complain that nothing has happened and inappropriately place blame.
| QUOTE |
| I've seen more closures since they started, more curfews on certain areas, more over-enforcement, higher fee's......need I continue? |
What else has been closed since the ASA started? The curfews at Comp came about because of Imperial County, possibly with influence of the BLM. The land is still available for riding more than it is closed.
More law enforcement happened because too many idiots started too much trouble and a lot of people wanted it.
The ASA did not support the higher fees, but the BLM can do pretty much as they damn well please (check out the fees at Dumont, ......everyone thought that they wouldn't happen and guess what? The BLM blindsided all concerned parties, didn't they?) until they are told from "higher up" to cease and desist.
The Comp closure at night only applies to the people that cant get to comp through the dunes
Hey if some guy in his 50k truck wants to " dune it ' to comp , I think it is allowed ?.
Hey if some guy in his 50k truck wants to " dune it ' to comp , I think it is allowed ?.
Olds, not Comp.
Comp is closed most holidays. Olds they apparently let you in if you can make it through the dunes. Dunno. Don't go there at night myself.
Comp is closed most holidays. Olds they apparently let you in if you can make it through the dunes. Dunno. Don't go there at night myself.
As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter when a person wakes up to what we've lost (and continue to lose), as long as they WAKE UP.
Frog, the map you came across is probably one of the most powerful statements we can make. It shows in graphic detail what we've lost and progression of the anti-access fungus.
Banshee Bob created that particular map for DUNERS as well as for the ASA... it's a cleaned up version of one that has been originated by many different people and Bob, I know we've said it before but it needs repeating... thanks for doing such an excellent job on it!
And Frog, you're right about the nighttime riding situation... that's something that is being looked at for many riding areas.
Management by curfew is the same as management by closure and it's long past time for us to stand up against this bad management style.
Vicki
Frog, the map you came across is probably one of the most powerful statements we can make. It shows in graphic detail what we've lost and progression of the anti-access fungus.
Banshee Bob created that particular map for DUNERS as well as for the ASA... it's a cleaned up version of one that has been originated by many different people and Bob, I know we've said it before but it needs repeating... thanks for doing such an excellent job on it!
And Frog, you're right about the nighttime riding situation... that's something that is being looked at for many riding areas.
Management by curfew is the same as management by closure and it's long past time for us to stand up against this bad management style.
Vicki
| QUOTE |
| As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter when a person wakes up to what we've lost (and continue to lose), as long as they WAKE UP. |
Frog, I apologize to you. My "WTF you been?" comment should have had one of these "
" after it to show I wasn't being mean and was an attempt at humor.
no offense taken....I've been going duning for a long time and knew of closures, but seeing it on a map like that just blew my mind...it looks like 90% of the dunes are closed to us and it just scares the hell out of me...
is the ASA seeking help from the "BIG" OHV manufacturers...Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda and others...and if so why have they not expressed the $$$ concerns that these closures are costing them in current customers and future customers alike?
is the ASA seeking help from the "BIG" OHV manufacturers...Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda and others...and if so why have they not expressed the $$$ concerns that these closures are costing them in current customers and future customers alike?
Lets all keep our fingers crossed that the PMV comes off the list and some of the closed areas are reopened soon.
| QUOTE (HozayKwarvo @ Feb 23 2004, 01:44 PM) |
| Lets all keep our fingers crossed that the PMV comes off the list and some of the closed areas are reopened soon. |
We all certainly do want the PMV delisted but that will not lift the closures.
Those closures are in place due to a court order and the closures will only be lifted after the stipulated conditions of that court order are met.
It would still help our cause (in several different ways) to have that silly little plant removed from "threatened" status though, that's for darn sure.
Oh, and while we are keeping our fingers crossed for the PMV delisting, let's keep our toes crossed that the petition to list the Andrews Dune Scarab Beetle isn't successful... that would be one more species to add to the list dune species that the bad guys will be using against us.
Vicki
Frog,
Duning a long time? Hey, I started duning in '63 at Pismo! Been offroading in one form or another since '57-58!
Yes, seeing it does look bad. The CBD claims we still have 50% of the dunes to ride. After looking at the map you know better. The CBD and SC wouldn't know the truth is it slapped them up side their heads!
If the pmv is delisted (and put into the Congressional Record) then the reason for the closures becomes moot. This info is what Mark Harms expressed at the last ASA BOD meeting and he's on the legal team and been working very hard on this for the last few years. The BLM is still mandated to do biological studies regardless of the outcome of the FWS decision. And yes, the ASA has several legal options to pursue regardless of the outcome.
Yes, the CBD is trying to get the Andrews Scarab Beetle listed. The ASA is currently looking for a "bug person" to help us out on this.
They (the CBD) already attempted to get the flat-tailed horned lizard listed and it didn't work.
The GAGs are like terminators; they'll never stop until they are obliterated. Therefore, we need to be the same.
The ASA has tried to get help from manufacturers and gotten a lot of response from sand rail manufacturers and trailer manufacturers. Bombadier also donated to our cause awhile back by giving us 2 quads and a trailer.
Duning a long time? Hey, I started duning in '63 at Pismo! Been offroading in one form or another since '57-58!
Yes, seeing it does look bad. The CBD claims we still have 50% of the dunes to ride. After looking at the map you know better. The CBD and SC wouldn't know the truth is it slapped them up side their heads!
If the pmv is delisted (and put into the Congressional Record) then the reason for the closures becomes moot. This info is what Mark Harms expressed at the last ASA BOD meeting and he's on the legal team and been working very hard on this for the last few years. The BLM is still mandated to do biological studies regardless of the outcome of the FWS decision. And yes, the ASA has several legal options to pursue regardless of the outcome.
Yes, the CBD is trying to get the Andrews Scarab Beetle listed. The ASA is currently looking for a "bug person" to help us out on this.
They (the CBD) already attempted to get the flat-tailed horned lizard listed and it didn't work.
The GAGs are like terminators; they'll never stop until they are obliterated. Therefore, we need to be the same.
The ASA has tried to get help from manufacturers and gotten a lot of response from sand rail manufacturers and trailer manufacturers. Bombadier also donated to our cause awhile back by giving us 2 quads and a trailer.
| QUOTE (Washroad @ Feb 23 2004, 03:31 PM) |
| If the pmv is delisted (and put into the Congressional Record) then the reason for the closures becomes moot. |
A very fine distinction to be sure.
Moot or not, the closures will remain in place until either the original stipulated court order is deemed fulfilled or it is replaced with a shiney new court order.
Once it's in the hands of the guys in the long black robes, they have control until they decide they no longer have control.
Vicki
Another fine point that needs clearing up is that Washroad stated the "de-listing" needs to be published in the Congressional Record. The "de-listing needs" to be published in the Federal Register, not the Congressional Record.
Also, Washroad forgot to mention the Yamaha Dealers donation of the Raptor a couple of years ago.
Also, Washroad forgot to mention the Yamaha Dealers donation of the Raptor a couple of years ago.
Good point Vickie !. This waiting game sucks !. BLM, FWS OHMV fees and commissions and OH YEH, the cbd and friends !. There are alot of fires brewing right now !. There are alot of legal issues. All dune people need to be informed !. One thing that I have noticed is that there are to many people out there that just dont know what is going on !. The only advertisements I ever see ( besides the stuff here and other dune sites ), is the sign at the Dunes edge ranch and the 78/ 115 turn !. What can WE (duners ) do to inform the uninformed ?.
More billboards ?.
Flyers ? ( give me a stack, I'll hand them out ! ).
Advertise in mag's, ( besides SS and SA ).
Signed; desertsteve
More billboards ?.
Flyers ? ( give me a stack, I'll hand them out ! ).
Advertise in mag's, ( besides SS and SA ).
Signed; desertsteve
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