stuff like this is NOT helping us..PEOPLE get a clue!
http://www.ivpressonline.com/articles/2004...news/news04.txt
Full Version: 1,129 Pounds Of Pot Seized By Border Patrol
Eh, it's an unrelated issue as I see it. I don't think we as duners can do anything to stop smugglers from disguising themselves as us...
"According to the Border Patrol, agents were patrolling in the Buttercup area of the eastern desert at 2:30 p.m. Saturday when they were notified by people in the area of suspicious activity occurring around a gathering of vehicles."
Who do you think reported them? If anything I think it ought to be kudos to the vigilant duners helping keep the schwag out of the US.
"According to the Border Patrol, agents were patrolling in the Buttercup area of the eastern desert at 2:30 p.m. Saturday when they were notified by people in the area of suspicious activity occurring around a gathering of vehicles."
Who do you think reported them? If anything I think it ought to be kudos to the vigilant duners helping keep the schwag out of the US.
That's my take on it as well.
So.... anybody heard from Stoney lately?
So.... anybody heard from Stoney lately?
| QUOTE (socaldmax @ Feb 27 2004, 12:32 PM) |
| That's my take on it as well. So.... anybody heard from Stoney lately? |
Hey I was there when that one happened...even heard the gunshots (thought it was my car backfiring). When we first pulled up and saw that camp I almost went over to talk to them because they had a Manx sitting out. But it must have been Manx day at Buttercup because there were at least 4 other Manxes out there - and something I still can't put my finger on just didn't look "right" about that camp so I didn't stop. Glad I didn't now.
I did get some photos of the bust going down though:
(click for larger view)
As for how this impacts us. Things like this bust are really more a matter of the dunes being a part of the border than anything else. And if you want to fault OHVers for anything it should be not respecting the international border since that's what makes it harder for the BP to tell when people are sneaking this kind of thing across. This isn't a sign of drug use in the dunes - just a matter of the dunes crossing into a nother country, one where smuggling is VERY common for this kind of stuff espically in this area becuase they think the BP can't watch it very well.
As far as drug use goes. Personally I'm pro-legalization. What you do in your own house should be up to you - if it affects your ability to work or function in society then you should be delt with just like anyone else who can't function properly. I don't care if you're doing a bad job at work because you're high or because you're just lazy - either way I'd fire your ass for not getting the job done. But if you want to get baked at home then so be it it's your body it should be your choice.
The problem is however right now it IS still illegal and too many people seem to forget that sometimes and flaunt it. But it goes for both sides. Remember Danny Patterson from the CBD (who leads their dune fight) ran for office in AZ and put legalization above conservation in his platform. Yet he still had no problems citing drug use as a reason to shut down the dunes. Heck he even penned an essay titled "Riot police cause riots" but then called for more enforcement in the dunes to prevent a riot situation. Maybe he's just suffering some short term memory loss
So what does this have to do with the dunes? Well, basically the dunes aren't your house, they're public and belong to all of us. If you want to use drugs in your own home I personally don't have a problem with that. But if you want to do it on our public land you may as well be lighting up on a street corner. Sometimes I think some people get too wrapped up in their own little worlds to remember that the rest of society may not agree with them. I had one friend who would sit on his front porch smoking a bong - and was upset when he got arrested for it. Gee, what a surprise - he would actually wave at cops with one hand while holding the pipe in the other and blowing out a cloud of smoke. I'm just surprised they waited as long as they did to arrest him.
The dunes aren't much different. You're in public and you're in full view of everyone. You're not in a private residence, you're not out of sight. If you want to get high go for it. But have the decency to do it in private and not in a way or place that can harm other people by costing us all the things we love (like Mother G!)
I did get some photos of the bust going down though:
(click for larger view)
As for how this impacts us. Things like this bust are really more a matter of the dunes being a part of the border than anything else. And if you want to fault OHVers for anything it should be not respecting the international border since that's what makes it harder for the BP to tell when people are sneaking this kind of thing across. This isn't a sign of drug use in the dunes - just a matter of the dunes crossing into a nother country, one where smuggling is VERY common for this kind of stuff espically in this area becuase they think the BP can't watch it very well.
As far as drug use goes. Personally I'm pro-legalization. What you do in your own house should be up to you - if it affects your ability to work or function in society then you should be delt with just like anyone else who can't function properly. I don't care if you're doing a bad job at work because you're high or because you're just lazy - either way I'd fire your ass for not getting the job done. But if you want to get baked at home then so be it it's your body it should be your choice.
The problem is however right now it IS still illegal and too many people seem to forget that sometimes and flaunt it. But it goes for both sides. Remember Danny Patterson from the CBD (who leads their dune fight) ran for office in AZ and put legalization above conservation in his platform. Yet he still had no problems citing drug use as a reason to shut down the dunes. Heck he even penned an essay titled "Riot police cause riots" but then called for more enforcement in the dunes to prevent a riot situation. Maybe he's just suffering some short term memory loss
So what does this have to do with the dunes? Well, basically the dunes aren't your house, they're public and belong to all of us. If you want to use drugs in your own home I personally don't have a problem with that. But if you want to do it on our public land you may as well be lighting up on a street corner. Sometimes I think some people get too wrapped up in their own little worlds to remember that the rest of society may not agree with them. I had one friend who would sit on his front porch smoking a bong - and was upset when he got arrested for it. Gee, what a surprise - he would actually wave at cops with one hand while holding the pipe in the other and blowing out a cloud of smoke. I'm just surprised they waited as long as they did to arrest him.
The dunes aren't much different. You're in public and you're in full view of everyone. You're not in a private residence, you're not out of sight. If you want to get high go for it. But have the decency to do it in private and not in a way or place that can harm other people by costing us all the things we love (like Mother G!)
| QUOTE (socaldmax @ Feb 27 2004, 11:32 AM) |
| That's my take on it as well. So.... anybody heard from Stoney lately? |
I'm right over here, man!
jhitesma makes some excellent points on the (slightly off-topic) marijuana issue. You're right in that what stoners do still isn't accepted by the law, regardless of how mainstream it is. You're right that people should practice their drug use discreetly, because the only two drugs you can use in public are alcohol and tobacco, to the best of my knowledge. And you're right on the money about the need for employers to care about performance on the job rather than what the employee does on his/her own time. If I'm going to be fired, it should be because I spend too much time on GD.com, not because I might smoke a bowl when I get off work.
However, when it comes to openly talking about drug use, I think the vocal minority has held us in check too long. If we don't open and continue discussion on the subject, many fence-sitters on the issue will just blindly swallow what the government-sponsored media moguls like the Ad Council feed them. Conversely, the more the intelligent, sensible stoners (I consider myself one) make ourselves known, the more the eyes and minds of the general public will begin to open up. JMHO
I've never been to Buttercup, so I don't know...how well is the border marked down there? I would understand your point about the difficulty BP (now DHS) would have containing the traffic, but for all I know it could be marked as poorly as some of the closure areas...
DAVe
I just want to echo that I agree strongly with Dave that no matter what the issue or how controversial it is you can't be afraid of discussing it openly and frankly. I know there are people right now reading this thread thinking it's awful that this is even being discussed - but frankly I say they're the kind of people who cause more problems than they can ever admit just by keeping their heads in the sand.
I also want to clarify that what I said above was not specific to the dunes or OHVers but rather my feelings in general about the issue of drug use in general. It goes the same for hikers as it does for OHVers whether they be in a national forrest, in the dunes, in the middle of the Mojave, or floating on a boat in some lake.
As for the border. Well frankly it's no marked at all. There are little stone blocks about 1 foot square every 1,000 feet (I think - it could be quite a bit more.) and then slightly larger markers every 5th one or something and then really big obelisk markers every 10th. My numbers are probably way off but that's the basic idea.
One of the big markers is really easy to find at Buttercup. Just go to the extreme western edge of the dunes where the midway campground is. Then go south until you hit the border. Even though the border isn't marked it is fairly easy to recognize in this particular area because it's hard pack and the BP drags it with tires on a regular basis to make it smooth so they can see any crossing. Then follow the path along the border east and just as you reach the dunes you'll find one of the big obelisks.
Here's a page about them: http://www.ranchrescuecolorado.com/Border%20Monuments.htm
Here's a shot of one of the smaller ones:
http://www.virtual29.com/hummers/SArizona/...20monument..htm
Here is another site with shots of similar markers:
http://www.oz.net/~geoffsi/sw2001-web/index-808.htm
But overall the border is unfenced and unmarked but HEAVILY watched. The BP has cameras, VERY sensitive siesmographs (that can pick up footfalls), radar, night vision and other goodies they use to watch this area. I had neighbors who were BP stationed in the dunes and I know from talking to them that the number of BP in that immediate area at any given time is MUCH higher than it appears.
BTW - the BP really dosn't have any issues with people crossing over into Mexico. The Mexican Federales are the ones to worry about upsetting by doing that - but they pretty much stay out of the dunes and don't pay attention. The problem is when you try to come back in. If you don't cross over at a recognized point of entry then you're illegally reentering your own country and can end up in a heap of trouble. I've been let off with a warning a few times when I accidentally strayed too far south (but always returned as soon as I realized it.) but I've talked to people who had their quads and buggies confiscated and had to pay though the nose in fines and fees to get them back. The nearest point of entry is Andrade at Algodones a few miles east of the dunes.
I also want to clarify that what I said above was not specific to the dunes or OHVers but rather my feelings in general about the issue of drug use in general. It goes the same for hikers as it does for OHVers whether they be in a national forrest, in the dunes, in the middle of the Mojave, or floating on a boat in some lake.
As for the border. Well frankly it's no marked at all. There are little stone blocks about 1 foot square every 1,000 feet (I think - it could be quite a bit more.) and then slightly larger markers every 5th one or something and then really big obelisk markers every 10th. My numbers are probably way off but that's the basic idea.
One of the big markers is really easy to find at Buttercup. Just go to the extreme western edge of the dunes where the midway campground is. Then go south until you hit the border. Even though the border isn't marked it is fairly easy to recognize in this particular area because it's hard pack and the BP drags it with tires on a regular basis to make it smooth so they can see any crossing. Then follow the path along the border east and just as you reach the dunes you'll find one of the big obelisks.
Here's a page about them: http://www.ranchrescuecolorado.com/Border%20Monuments.htm
Here's a shot of one of the smaller ones:
http://www.virtual29.com/hummers/SArizona/...20monument..htm
Here is another site with shots of similar markers:
http://www.oz.net/~geoffsi/sw2001-web/index-808.htm
But overall the border is unfenced and unmarked but HEAVILY watched. The BP has cameras, VERY sensitive siesmographs (that can pick up footfalls), radar, night vision and other goodies they use to watch this area. I had neighbors who were BP stationed in the dunes and I know from talking to them that the number of BP in that immediate area at any given time is MUCH higher than it appears.
BTW - the BP really dosn't have any issues with people crossing over into Mexico. The Mexican Federales are the ones to worry about upsetting by doing that - but they pretty much stay out of the dunes and don't pay attention. The problem is when you try to come back in. If you don't cross over at a recognized point of entry then you're illegally reentering your own country and can end up in a heap of trouble. I've been let off with a warning a few times when I accidentally strayed too far south (but always returned as soon as I realized it.) but I've talked to people who had their quads and buggies confiscated and had to pay though the nose in fines and fees to get them back. The nearest point of entry is Andrade at Algodones a few miles east of the dunes.
Thanks jhitesma for all the info and pics...
No problem Slappy. I keep planning on getting a shot of the border marker in the dunes...but it's one of those things that I always seem to find when I don't have a camera and am not looking for it. But when I have a camera with me and AM looking for it I can never seem to find it
OK, people...this topic was NOT an ANTI-DRUG use post....
it was just information to the fact that this can and will
be used against us by BLM...more closures? remember?
it can hear it now..."OHV's are used frequently to transport
illegal drugs across our borders, we must close the area down
to further prevent this!"
just one more nail in the coffin!
have one on me...
I didn't mean to start a fight!
it was just information to the fact that this can and will
be used against us by BLM...more closures? remember?
it can hear it now..."OHV's are used frequently to transport
illegal drugs across our borders, we must close the area down
to further prevent this!"
just one more nail in the coffin!
have one on me...
I didn't mean to start a fight!
Heck if you think this is a fight you need to stick around awhile
This is just friendly discussion
BTW, it's not a problem of the BLM closing it down. It's a problem of groups like the CBD, Sierra Club, and others wanting to get it closed down. But to stop smuggling it's a pointless battle and they know it.
In fact that's a BIG internal fight within the Sierra Club right now. Because of dammage being done to wilderness areas due to smugglers (of both drugs and humans). The Smugglers don't care if it's closed or not - they'll still go though.
The dunes are attractive to the smugglers for two main reasons:
1) It's REALLY close to the border. I mean like a 5 minute walk at some points!
2) They feel they can try to blend in with all the people in the area.
The problem with #2 is the people who are there legitimately should not be going across the border. Which makes the smugglers stand out more.
But this is not just isolated to the dunes. I can show you a half dozen other areas in Yuma County where smuggling is just as rampant because there are other things along the border the smugglers think they can use to blend it.
This is just friendly discussion
BTW, it's not a problem of the BLM closing it down. It's a problem of groups like the CBD, Sierra Club, and others wanting to get it closed down. But to stop smuggling it's a pointless battle and they know it.
In fact that's a BIG internal fight within the Sierra Club right now. Because of dammage being done to wilderness areas due to smugglers (of both drugs and humans). The Smugglers don't care if it's closed or not - they'll still go though.
The dunes are attractive to the smugglers for two main reasons:
1) It's REALLY close to the border. I mean like a 5 minute walk at some points!
2) They feel they can try to blend in with all the people in the area.
The problem with #2 is the people who are there legitimately should not be going across the border. Which makes the smugglers stand out more.
But this is not just isolated to the dunes. I can show you a half dozen other areas in Yuma County where smuggling is just as rampant because there are other things along the border the smugglers think they can use to blend it.
FrOg - no hard feelings here, thanks for opening up a great can of worms to give us something to talk/think about!
stonehenge - I've heard of the big rock thingie, but how in the hell does this relate to the topic?
DAVe
stonehenge - I've heard of the big rock thingie, but how in the hell does this relate to the topic?
DAVe
wow, and I was about to call UPS about that package I never received yet... 
1,129 pounds? I swear it was 1,230 pounds when we packed the vehicle..
I noticed Stoney in the pic.. I think the guy owes me now!!!
I noticed Stoney in the pic.. I think the guy owes me now!!!
BUMMER................... Just like the gas prices looks like weed might go up too...........
| QUOTE (stonehenge @ Mar 4 2004, 07:46 AM) | ||
I'm referred to as "stoney" by everyone on this board and in person, even away from Glamis, even at home? I did not pick this nickname, it was given. That was why I made that comment. If you want the title, its yours. |
Hell, any of my friends will answer to that name to anyone not wearing a badge!
But thanks for informing me, I'll start calling you Stoner if I ever meet you...regardless of how well it fits.
Thats allot of smokey smokey!
Holly thread revival.
Repost = "At the time, one man on an ATV fled and drove back into Mexico"
Did a big fence to keep them out was built in this area ?
or did the dunes eat up the fence now ;-)
http://www.duneguide.com/images/Buttercup-BorderFence-2.jpg
http://www.duneguide.com/images/Buttercup-BorderFence-3.jpg
http://www.duneguide.com/images/ISDRA-BorderFence-8.jpg
Did a big fence to keep them out was built in this area ?
or did the dunes eat up the fence now ;-)
http://www.duneguide.com/images/Buttercup-BorderFence-2.jpg
http://www.duneguide.com/images/Buttercup-BorderFence-3.jpg
http://www.duneguide.com/images/ISDRA-BorderFence-8.jpg
Thats alot of seized pot. Street prices are going to go up a bunch.
QUOTE (Crusty @ Mar 11 2010, 01:02 PM) 
Thats allot of smokey smokey!
Did you stash some of this away? You keep bumping old threads.
QUOTE (cisco kid @ Mar 11 2010, 02:37 PM)
Repost = "At the time, one man on an ATV fled and drove back into Mexico"
Did a big fence to keep them out was built in this area ?
or did the dunes eat up the fence now ;-)
http://www.duneguide.com/images/Buttercup-BorderFence-2.jpg
http://www.duneguide.com/images/Buttercup-BorderFence-3.jpg
http://www.duneguide.com/images/ISDRA-BorderFence-8.jpg
Did a big fence to keep them out was built in this area ?
or did the dunes eat up the fence now ;-)
http://www.duneguide.com/images/Buttercup-BorderFence-2.jpg
http://www.duneguide.com/images/Buttercup-BorderFence-3.jpg
http://www.duneguide.com/images/ISDRA-BorderFence-8.jpg
Right!?!? thats a hellova fence.. WTF mate.
So..were they playing loud, obnoxious rap music, or were they flying flags from another country other than ours??? 
I just had to throw that out there!! 
I just had to throw that out there!!
QUOTE (Maurice @ Mar 11 2010, 04:36 PM)
QUOTE (cisco kid @ Mar 11 2010, 02:37 PM)
Repost = "At the time, one man on an ATV fled and drove back into Mexico"
Did a big fence to keep them out was built in this area ?
or did the dunes eat up the fence now ;-)
http://www.duneguide.com/images/Buttercup-BorderFence-2.jpg
http://www.duneguide.com/images/Buttercup-BorderFence-3.jpg
http://www.duneguide.com/images/ISDRA-BorderFence-8.jpg
Did a big fence to keep them out was built in this area ?
or did the dunes eat up the fence now ;-)
http://www.duneguide.com/images/Buttercup-BorderFence-2.jpg
http://www.duneguide.com/images/Buttercup-BorderFence-3.jpg
http://www.duneguide.com/images/ISDRA-BorderFence-8.jpg
Right!?!? thats a hellova fence.. WTF mate.
Note the original post was from 2004. No fence then.
QUOTE (Sand Spaz @ Mar 11 2010, 02:19 PM)
Holly thread revival.
No kidding. Someone was bored!!!
QUOTE (jhitesma @ Apr 4 2010, 03:15 PM)
QUOTE (Maurice @ Mar 11 2010, 04:36 PM)
QUOTE (cisco kid @ Mar 11 2010, 02:37 PM)
Repost = "At the time, one man on an ATV fled and drove back into Mexico"
Did a big fence to keep them out was built in this area ?
or did the dunes eat up the fence now ;-)
http://www.duneguide.com/images/Buttercup-BorderFence-2.jpg
http://www.duneguide.com/images/Buttercup-BorderFence-3.jpg
http://www.duneguide.com/images/ISDRA-BorderFence-8.jpg
Did a big fence to keep them out was built in this area ?
or did the dunes eat up the fence now ;-)
http://www.duneguide.com/images/Buttercup-BorderFence-2.jpg
http://www.duneguide.com/images/Buttercup-BorderFence-3.jpg
http://www.duneguide.com/images/ISDRA-BorderFence-8.jpg
Right!?!? thats a hellova fence.. WTF mate.
Note the original post was from 2004. No fence then.
Great to have the fence up,now we can go back to Buttercup and feel safe.. from the Duner pot heads...
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