Here is the most recent expense spreadsheet for the ISDRA.
Please read and comment. Maybe it's just me, but I get pretty torqued when I see that we're paying for their gawddam uniforms.
spreadsheet
Full Version: Isdra Spreadsheet
Campground host.....we dont have a campground host....$1048.00.
Do we even have a campground?
Do we even have a campground?
My biggest issue is the dumpsters and the friggen toilets!!!
That's WAY TOO MUCH MONEY TO DUMP A CRAPPER THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE TAKING CARE OF THEMSELVES!
But, that's just me.
The Pastor
That's WAY TOO MUCH MONEY TO DUMP A CRAPPER THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE TAKING CARE OF THEMSELVES!
But, that's just me.
The Pastor
$2600 planned for educational program on permits - $0 spent
$100,000 - price of ONE 'monitoring coordinator'
They can't spell the word 'extension'
What are they doing to control dust for $35,000?
$182,000 to empty a few dumpsters?!?
$67,000 in Porta Potties (I've never even seen one, unless this includes South Dunes too)
Why 2 separate bathroom cleaning contracts, for $35,000 each?
$500 cost for enforcing speed limits? How about a $50,000 profit?
$6500 cost to continue allowing volunteer and nonprofit cleanups?
I think that's about the total of my notes...DAVe
$100,000 - price of ONE 'monitoring coordinator'
They can't spell the word 'extension'
What are they doing to control dust for $35,000?
$182,000 to empty a few dumpsters?!?
$67,000 in Porta Potties (I've never even seen one, unless this includes South Dunes too)
Why 2 separate bathroom cleaning contracts, for $35,000 each?
$500 cost for enforcing speed limits? How about a $50,000 profit?
$6500 cost to continue allowing volunteer and nonprofit cleanups?
I think that's about the total of my notes...DAVe
| QUOTE |
| $6500 cost to continue allowing volunteer and nonprofit cleanups? |
This is another one that chaps my hide...
How can it cost $6500 to let OTHER PEOPLE do the job?
The Pastor
| QUOTE (The Pastor @ Mar 4 2004, 04:19 PM) | ||
This is another one that chaps my hide... How can it cost $6500 to let OTHER PEOPLE do the job? The Pastor |
I can't believe I missed that one.
What the hell are they talking about??? It costs $6500 to continue to allow cleanups? Geez, what would be the cost if they didn't allow it? How could they stop it and why would they stop it? This makes them sound very maganimous, doesn't it.
And please tell me what they spent $6500 on. The water that our people had to take back and forth?
Must be that broken ass EZup they used, right?
Oh no, it must be the cost of the BBQ.
We asked them for cups, they said no. We asked them for Gatorade (they used to do that), they said no. What the heck did they do that was possibly worth $6500?
They can't be talking about any other cleanup because the next biggest one, coming up this weekend, is held on private property and the mini-cleanups don't require anything from them, period.
grrrrrrrrrrrr
Vicki
| QUOTE (The Pastor @ Mar 4 2004, 05:19 PM) | ||
This is another one that chaps my hide... How can it cost $6500 to let OTHER PEOPLE do the job? The Pastor |
I don't know either, but $0 has been spent, and it has been cut to $0 TO BE spent.
| QUOTE |
| $500 cost for enforcing speed limits? |
$0 spent and it has been cut to $0 TO BE spent
| QUOTE |
| $67,000 in Porta Potties (I've never even seen one, unless this includes South Dunes too) |
There are several in the ISDRA, but there are only there during big weekends. Here are the locations and how many:
Wash Road – 12 portables
Glamis Flats – 6 portables
Dune Buggy Flats (Gordon’s) – 15 portables
| QUOTE |
| $100,000 - price of ONE 'monitoring coordinator' |
$0 spent and it has been cut to $0 TO BE spent
So who do I complain to ? the BLM ,FWS, OHVMR whatever, the Govenator ?.
This is @$#%^}, rediculous !.
This is @$#%^}, rediculous !.
| QUOTE |
| $2600 planned for educational program on permits - $0 spent |
It has been cut to $0 TO BE spent
| QUOTE |
| Campground host.....we dont have a campground host....$1048.00. |
They are at Buttercup. Not sure what this cost is for though. The camp host are doing daily vehicle counts in the dune camp areas. These are REAL numbers and they will be a great way to find out what the real visitation numbers are. The counts will be compared to the wheel counts.
A camp host is needed for the North Dunes and Gordon's to do the same thing. Know anyone?
| QUOTE |
| My biggest issue is the dumpsters and the friggen toilets!!! |
The dumpsters I tend to agree with you on. Pack it in - Pack it Out could save a lot of money (my opinion)
There are normally TEN 40 yard containers at the ISDRA. Each of those is scheduled to be picked up once per week for 35 weeks of the season. Over all the holidays there are more dumpsters brought in (and people still fill them up). The total nmber of dumpsters picked up over all of the holidays is 123.
That's a lot of trash.
| QUOTE |
| Maybe it's just me, but I get pretty torqued when I see that we're paying for their gawddam uniforms. |
As it stands right now, dune users are paying for pretty much everything. We should be torqued. But not just at the BLM. We are now funding the Federally Mandated Monitoring Study. $900,000 cut from $1,000,000 That funding should be coming from the Federal government, not dune users. The OMHVR Commision did not aprove grants for law enforcement or O&M to the BLM.
Just so every one knows, or to be a reminder, all of these items are straight out of the business plan.
| QUOTE (LoBuck @ Mar 5 2004, 12:14 AM) |
| Just so every one knows, or to be a reminder, all of these items are straight out of the business plan. |
Anyone still wonder why DUNERS fought so hard against rushing into it???
Sheesh.
Glenn, your reminder that some of these items have been changed to zero dollars to be spent is appreciated but what I think most of us are frustrated with is the fact that they are included in the first place.
That means that the fee increase, the continued whining about currently being way under budget and the very likely possibility of additional fees next year are all based in part on those figures being in the budget for the ISDRA.
What can be done about it? We have to talk to our politicians and make them see what's happening down here.
And that's exactly what many of us are doing.
Republicans and Democrats alike can at least agree on one thing... citizens should not be paying for the stuff the ISDRA citizens are paying for.
We just have to bring it to their attention, again and again
Vicki
P.S. That "sheesh" is not directed at you Glenn; it is aimed at this whole mess.
Hmmm.... Let's see.... I've seen numbers such as this in the past. Back when the BLM gave some detail to the Grant requests, these kind and amount of expenditures caused a great deal of debate.
It's becoming clearer to me that when the issue of accountability gets raised, BLM likes to play hide the salami.
And I remember programs from President Reagan and Bush Sr. asking use to “Take Pride in America” and “Thousand Points of Light” whose theme was volunteer programs. I don’t recall the Presidents mentioning having to pay to conduct simple volunteer program.
It's becoming clearer to me that when the issue of accountability gets raised, BLM likes to play hide the salami.
And I remember programs from President Reagan and Bush Sr. asking use to “Take Pride in America” and “Thousand Points of Light” whose theme was volunteer programs. I don’t recall the Presidents mentioning having to pay to conduct simple volunteer program.
| QUOTE (SailAway @ Mar 5 2004, 07:03 AM) |
Republicans and Democrats alike can at least agree on one thing... citizens should not be paying for the stuff the ISDRA citizens are paying for. |
If the ISDRA citizens should not be paying for the "stuff" at the ISDRA than who should be paying for this "stuff"?
Basic "citizens" ARE the government and the taxes we pay are spread out over allot of things that we don't personally use, that is why there are admission fees to most State and Federal parks in addition to the basic funding for these facilities.
We do need the Federal Government to step up and increase the basic funding for the ISDRA but the "ISDRA citizens" are going to have to pay some of this cost just as any user of an area has to pay some of the increased costs due to the their visitation. If nobody visited a particular facility after a short while I’m sure it would be closed because the “basic” funding alone is not enough to support the facility.
The requirement for this “stuff’ is always going to be debated but the reality of the situation is that people today want these services. This includes trash dumpsters, some form of rest rooms, EMT’s and law enforcement. I know some people would like things to go back to the way they used to be (a free ISDRA) but in our current society there is no way we will ever go back to the way things were years ago. Yes we all would like 25-cent gas and $25000 homes but that is never going to happen.
It is imperative that we all contact our elected representatives and voice our opinion on increasing the basic funding for the ISDRA. In this way we the “ISDRA citizens” should only have to cover the costs above the basic costs that are required to maintain the ISDRA.
.
Some observations:
Under "regular wash road grading" (GLM#3), they have listed an expenditure of $27,763 for storm reconstruciton. I believe this should be pulled out of the contingency pot, not charged to "regular" operations bugdet item. Just a way to make things look worse, since there is a $0 budget in this line item while the contingency pot still has over $550K surplus. Be WARY as these are government beareaucrats, and trust me, at the end of the fiscal year, they are going to spend every last dime of the "contingency" money on pretty desks, new computers, etc. And damn the rest of the budget.
EMS 4x4 training? What a WASTE of money. First, they should not be hiring anyone who doesn't have the ability to perform the duties required for the position. And secondly, they have a HUGE, freely accessable training area. Let one of the already paid for people teach proper driving skills if they aren't competent enough to hire people with the proper skill sets.
Permit distribution costs. Why would we be paying for the distribution of permits, and how on God's green earth can it cost $211,000 to distribute a bunch of paper? This needs to be looked at very closely, as it seems way out of bed. Fraud, waste, and abuse is the first thing that comes to mind here.
vehicle costs. They have plenty of shiney new vehicles. This should be cut to $0, not $100,000.
Radio maintenance...BLM labor cost? Someone should be taking severe disciplinary action against these goofballs who are causing $2400 worth of damage to government owned equipment.
Lets look at the "additional holiday" column a bit closer too:
$66K for holiday travel? Uh...why is the government paying travel expenses? Absolutely un needed. We should not be paying for someones hotel to come generate ticket revenue.
$35K for supplies? Are we treating the goons to filet bar-b-ques? Did they use up that many pens and ticket books? I'd say an IG inspection needs to be done with this item.
$2500 to ship radios to Boise? What did they ship? I can ship a car coast to coast for less than $1000. Did they rent a lear jet to deliver them or something?
Are the people who set up the income projections living in a dream world? Are they so incompetent and disconnected to reality that they missed their projections by 58% in November, 45% in December, and 73% in January? They got lucky, and only missed it by 16% in February. Must be nice to just dream up whatever number you want to set a budget. And then let the users pay for it next year.
And one dumb question. What about all the controversy about not being able to provide numbers till almost two months after the fact? I just looked at my calander and February only ended 5 days ago. How can they have figures already? Or will the revised numbers put them more in line with their past, incompetent performance?
I guess after looking at this, there are plenty of suspect areas. These people don't appear to be able to manage their way out of a paper bag, much less be trusted with taxpayer dollars. There needs to be a very serious, independent congressionally driven audit of the spending patterns of these goofballs.
Under "regular wash road grading" (GLM#3), they have listed an expenditure of $27,763 for storm reconstruciton. I believe this should be pulled out of the contingency pot, not charged to "regular" operations bugdet item. Just a way to make things look worse, since there is a $0 budget in this line item while the contingency pot still has over $550K surplus. Be WARY as these are government beareaucrats, and trust me, at the end of the fiscal year, they are going to spend every last dime of the "contingency" money on pretty desks, new computers, etc. And damn the rest of the budget.
EMS 4x4 training? What a WASTE of money. First, they should not be hiring anyone who doesn't have the ability to perform the duties required for the position. And secondly, they have a HUGE, freely accessable training area. Let one of the already paid for people teach proper driving skills if they aren't competent enough to hire people with the proper skill sets.
Permit distribution costs. Why would we be paying for the distribution of permits, and how on God's green earth can it cost $211,000 to distribute a bunch of paper? This needs to be looked at very closely, as it seems way out of bed. Fraud, waste, and abuse is the first thing that comes to mind here.
vehicle costs. They have plenty of shiney new vehicles. This should be cut to $0, not $100,000.
Radio maintenance...BLM labor cost? Someone should be taking severe disciplinary action against these goofballs who are causing $2400 worth of damage to government owned equipment.
Lets look at the "additional holiday" column a bit closer too:
$66K for holiday travel? Uh...why is the government paying travel expenses? Absolutely un needed. We should not be paying for someones hotel to come generate ticket revenue.
$35K for supplies? Are we treating the goons to filet bar-b-ques? Did they use up that many pens and ticket books? I'd say an IG inspection needs to be done with this item.
$2500 to ship radios to Boise? What did they ship? I can ship a car coast to coast for less than $1000. Did they rent a lear jet to deliver them or something?
Are the people who set up the income projections living in a dream world? Are they so incompetent and disconnected to reality that they missed their projections by 58% in November, 45% in December, and 73% in January? They got lucky, and only missed it by 16% in February. Must be nice to just dream up whatever number you want to set a budget. And then let the users pay for it next year.
And one dumb question. What about all the controversy about not being able to provide numbers till almost two months after the fact? I just looked at my calander and February only ended 5 days ago. How can they have figures already? Or will the revised numbers put them more in line with their past, incompetent performance?
I guess after looking at this, there are plenty of suspect areas. These people don't appear to be able to manage their way out of a paper bag, much less be trusted with taxpayer dollars. There needs to be a very serious, independent congressionally driven audit of the spending patterns of these goofballs.
| QUOTE (Doc @ Mar 5 2004, 08:46 AM) |
| It is imperative that we all contact our elected representatives and voice our opinion on increasing the basic funding for the ISDRA. In this way we the “ISDRA citizens” should only have to cover the costs above the basic costs that are required to maintain the ISDRA. |
EXACTLY
Vicki:
Did I miss something here? Where did this information come from?
Did I miss something here? Where did this information come from?
Which information? Do you mean the spreadsheet that's linked at the beginning of this post?
That dandy little bit of fantasy came directly from the BLM.
Vicki
That dandy little bit of fantasy came directly from the BLM.
Vicki
Thanks Vicki, this answers my question.
And Ed has already received at least one copy.
Vicki
Vicki
| QUOTE (LoBuck @ Mar 4 2004, 11:39 PM) | ||
There are several in the ISDRA, but there are only there during big weekends. Here are the locations and how many: Wash Road – 12 portables Glamis Flats – 6 portables Dune Buggy Flats (Gordon’s) – 15 portables |
That's still a little more than $2,000 per crapper per year...How many cleanouts? My parents pay $40 for the one on their jobsite in the middle of nowhere in the Laguna mountains. $40 X 33 toilets X 35 weekends in a year = $46,200, still well under $67,000, and I can only imagine some company would offer a discount to get a contract that size.
DAVe
Thanks Vicki, I guess Ed received one from Jerry Seaver.
Ed has another spreadsheet I'm attempting to get to work correctly that shows BLM, USFS and Local Agencies appropriated funds (I think statewide), Fees and Green Sticker Funds. If what I'm reading is correct, the Green Sticker fund puts in an additional 2.7 million than Congress appropriates statewide. This does not include the SVRA system. I'm not sure that the below numbers include Fee Demo funds for the ISDRA.
Appropriated Funds = $ 4,544,783
Fee's from areas = $ 2, 679,000
Green Sticker Funds = $ 7,376,000
Total Income = $ 13,870,983
Ed has another spreadsheet I'm attempting to get to work correctly that shows BLM, USFS and Local Agencies appropriated funds (I think statewide), Fees and Green Sticker Funds. If what I'm reading is correct, the Green Sticker fund puts in an additional 2.7 million than Congress appropriates statewide. This does not include the SVRA system. I'm not sure that the below numbers include Fee Demo funds for the ISDRA.
Appropriated Funds = $ 4,544,783
Fee's from areas = $ 2, 679,000
Green Sticker Funds = $ 7,376,000
Total Income = $ 13,870,983
Wow!
Steve, if you email it to me I can download it to the DUNERS site and link it like the other one.
Vicki
Steve, if you email it to me I can download it to the DUNERS site and link it like the other one.
Vicki
| QUOTE |
| It is imperative that we all contact our elected representatives and voice our opinion on increasing the basic funding for the ISDRA. In this way we the “ISDRA citizens” should only have to cover the costs above the basic costs that are required to maintain the ISDRA. |
So who defines Basic Cost?
To me, Basic cost of maintaining Glamis consists of ... well... ummm... NOTHING!
Glamis is and always should be a WILDERNESS that people enjoy as a wilderness. By adding services and such you may be giving people "what they want" but there's NO MONEY for it. By FORCING those services into the area and FORCING the cost onto the users you are in effect creating a National Park out of a wilderness area.
If people want those services then they should go somewhere where those services exist or bring their own.
Yours, mine, everyones definition of "basic services" are completely different.
The Pastor
The IRS wonders why people don't pay taxes 
why people don't pay taxes
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