Pepperball launchers are an effective tool in dispersing unruly crouds but the training for croud control is usually that the balls be fired into the ground or against a wall near the croud so that the powder releases and blows into the croud. Individuals in the croud could be targeted if their actions warrant it.....that being said I have a few major concerns about this incident the way I understand the facts: I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH A VEHICLE and or its occupants BEING TARGETED....WHAT IF THE DRIVER WAS STRUCK AND WAS CAUSED TO LOOSE CONTROL OF THE VEHICLE AND HURT SOMEBODY? THE PASSENGERS OF A VEHCILE ARE IN NO POSITION TO COMPLY WITH THE ORDER TO DISPERSE, THAT IS TOTALY UP TO THE DRIVER, SO WHY DEPLOY THE PEPPERBALL at a passenger.....IM LEANING TOWARD THE THEORY THAT ONE OF THE ICSO GUYS LET A RANGER (with no training) PLAY WITH HIS TOY....BUT WHO KNOWS....

Quick update,

ICSO has interviewed driver, but no one else who was in the car that night. Most agencies would have completed an investigation of this nature by now, or at least, one's that have some sort of oversight.

Lindsey is looking into legal action, as is her right to.

Lindsey is out at G now, with the same group with her on halloween. I know they will enjoy Olds from the top of the hill from now on, just a lot less likely to be hit with anything other than a sand roost.

I'm typing this from my place at the Colorado River, little more mellow in the dirt out here on T day.

I will post up any updates on this event as I get them. There's things I will do from now on when I visit Olds at night, things like finding out who the line supervisor is at scene, getting a name to a group so to speak, long before any trouble starts.

Responsibility and Accountability are everything to those who take serious the job of serving. In the absence of that, a name and a face when things go wrong gets things settled and defined...a lot faster.


My thoughts only, this thread has been viewed by BLM and ICSO regularly, I have nothing to change to it or to be ashamed of. All parties involved know how to contact me.

Take care all and be safe, but aware

Gary

Gary

Thanks for the update and the follow through. Can you suggest what and how can us mere mortals without a badge can help avoid or at least document this type of thing? Im not talking about avoiding Olds or argueing when LEOs order dispersal, but suggestions from a LEOs point of view to document, ask the right questions, etc. I know you suggested before about asking for a supervisor, but is there a best way to do that without escalating the LEO?

I know no two situations are the same, but input from other LEOs would help some of us. Im sure many here would like for this to be a rare occurance rather than the norm as it has become. I feel if we all band together and try and have the same reactions ( ask for supervisor, badge number, etc), maybe we can weed out some rogues or at least show we Duners arent a bunch of troublemakers. Maybe we can improve our image so to speak...

Hope this makes sense.
Thanks!

And some still remember North Hollywood
http://cbs2.com/local/North.Hollywood.Shootout.2.528383.html

As of today,the Imperial Co. Sheriff ceased contacting the other occupants of the sandrail and have not called Lindsay back.

Lindsay has gone back to G several times, just wants the incident left behind.

I obviously have issues with the incident as I've posted,I saw the effects and know what happened was wrong, and frankly am less than impressed with any of the agencies working that night, or with the follow up by their respective management.

Mongo, as to your question, being a non leo, you have to remember out there if you start asking questions, the light of suspicion will shine on you. As long as your okay with that, ask for the supervisor at scene, take down a name, and if they give you flak, you have a complaint and I have no doubt this activity, behavior would cease and desist with a news reporter or two putting a Lt. or Capt. on camera with questions about what's going on out there.


As for me, I'll do what I do, after being a Sergeant for some time, I know all the games in the book as to trying to "pass one off" in terms of sub standard actions, behavior. It gave me a first hand look at the lack of accountability that is out there with certain organizations, only time and some light shed on the problem will change it, unfortunately.

Double duty. Great topic, bad situation. Im also in law enforcement (in LA county) and this is seriously embarrassing. There is a serious lack of training down there. I know for a fact that on busy weekends they ship rangers in from all over. Nevermind the fact that they have never been to G and are probably unfamiliar with the laws that apply. (I have had the chance to talk to several rangers. After identifying myself and questioning them about a couple local laws, they had the "dear in the headlights look" and it was very apparent they had no idea how to answer my questions.

Im also a little tired of the Us against them mentality that they give off. Dont they realize this isnt the same place it was 10 years ago. (It was pretty roudy sometimes.) They need to realize they dont work in the ghetto. They arent dealing with the dregs of society.

NOTE FOR RANGERS: Settle down. Take a breath. You work in a vacation destination where 99 percent of the people will follow your orders 99 percent of the time...Treat them accordingly.

Im gettin off the soap box now. Sorry for the rant at the end DD

Glad to see this brought back dose anyone know the number of use of force reports that are taken in the dunes. I know that there should be one compleated just about any situation needing more than a simple controle hold and hand cuffs. I know it can get roudy but is all the meaures being taken and new enforcement taking based on word of mouth from BLM, a rise in crime or a real defiance for leo. over he past few years it has realy calmed down i would think that would lead to a more friendly relationship between the rangers and duners but i have not seen that. A two hr wait on the wash road out just so i can have my vin and reg checked seams a little much when i havent done anything wrong just cause im done with my trip.... umm kinda odd i think.

VIDEO!! vid camera, phone, but use whatever documentation you have at your disposal, the more the better. An officer doing the proper thing wont mind, one that is violating laws or civil rights may get upset, but will usually cease their improper behaviour or prevent it from happening, it will also document which officers have what equipment...consider it proactive civil protection. Always, follow all lawful orders, it's up to you to know what they are.
Tim

Cameras can be a great tool when used correctly for the right purpose. One thing to keep in mind. Giving people a "break" is not always popular with cops supervisors. Not all but some. Having a camera stuffed in a cops face can sometimes limit his/her ability to give a break because he/she thinks its gonna be posted somewhere (youtube, local paper, GD). I know what most of you are thinking, why would someone post a video of a cop giving them a break. Well Ive seen it. Then the complaints come in from other people who got a ticket or arrested for the same thing wondering why they didnt get a break. Im not against cameras but in some instances becareful what you wish for...

Im not saying this is a regular occurrence but it has happened. Use your best judgement based on your individual experiences situations.

I was actually referring to documenting once the inappropriate behaviour, on the LEOs side strarted, and just to make it clear, never, ever, ever stick the camera in the LEOs face...it's all about invasion of personal space, the right to protect himself and double arm length distance....did I mention never ever put your camera, hands, fingers, beer can, raised voice or anything else in the LEOs face, you will not win. Tim

Well said Sir....I agree completely!!

I am a retired LEO with 35 years on the job. I have been going to the dunes for thirty years, and after reading about this incident I had to give my two cents. During the last few years there has been what I feel is a disturbing change in the attitudes of law enforcement at Glamis, particularly on the part of the BLM. We all know the job they do is sometimes difficult, and not everyone who enjoys Glamis is exactly friendly to BLM LEO, but....
What makes this job more difficult than most is that as an LEO, you are REQUIRED to treat people with respect, at least until you determine their intent/attitude. That means for instance, that just because you just left a contact with a rowdy drunk, you can't roll into the next camp angry and looking for trouble! Take a breath, regroup! Most people out here are law abiding families.
I remember having rangers roll into camp looking around for potential violations, and at the same time have a friendly, positive attitude. Now when they come, they have the "us vs them" attitude, an IT SHOWS.
I cant help but think that this attitude toward duners comes from the top. Supervision sets the tone for an agencies tactics and attitudes. I know for a fact there have been many complaints about this issue, but nothing changes. Now someone gets hit by a pepper ball, and guess what, no one comes forward. I was not there and cant say wether that use of force was appropraite or not, but the fact that no report was written and no one is admitting it speaks volumes.
I really hope that the BLM is paying attention. From what I am seeing and reading, even LEO duners, who would always lean toward supporting rangers and their actions, are questioning what is happening in our dunes.
By the way, good job DD !

Im glad that you are finally getting to see what happens on a daily basis not only a the dunes but on the streets. Most people have a blind eye until they get harassed. These days and in the future especially after the city of Bell and its chief of police scandal, the Vernon scandal... its just a matter of time. If and when ever I have contact with the po po I put my Iphone on record so I can nail his ass if they treat me bad or disrespectful. Now I havent had to because I know to avoid trouble but even when I get a ticket. Its supposed to be for the people BY the people. Not Martial Law.

What he said, we are not out there to cause problems.

AngelMoney- I wouldnt go that far...Remove the tin foil and come outside. I promise there arent a 1000 little police helicopters waiting outside to get you. LOL.....Your acting like this is happens everywhere all the time.

I guess your friend was lucky that was all that happened..


http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index....8&hl=Leloup

Ray Leloup went on to become Chief Area Ranger at the El Centro Office.
http://www.blm.gov/ca/news/newsbytes/profi...upelcentro.html

^^^^^^^^

Some interesting reading right there!

SBSD here..............I wear less in Muscoy!!!!!!

I miss CO gas!!!

Click to view attachment

How come we hear about this every year and people still have to go to Olds in the middle of the night??????

Just sayin??????

I will put this into the pitbull owners "why file"

That explains a lot. It says he was in Los Angels as an Air Marshall prior to going to the BLM, I would be willing to bet he is a rejected applicant to LAPD and LASD and probably more agencies in Los Angeles area. Why would anyone wanting a career in law enforcement take a position with the BLM if they where intelligent, honest, and mentally stable enough to be hired by an agency who’s true purpose is law enforcement. I think this is the case with most BLM Rangers. It would explain that the hostility they have towards EVERYONE is rooted in an inferiority complex.

Ray then became a Federal Air Marshall out of Los Angeles, California in 2002 and was in that position until June of 2003 when he came to the Bureau of Land Management as a Ranger in Glamis.

Don't matter what your skin color is, male or female. These blm want to be real cops are on a glamis rampage this season.
They also lie threw there friggen teeth as well. I have never seen one of these guys treat the average hard working joe with any respect.
I don't care what any one says, you give a guy a badge, gun, bullet proof vest and that 5' 2" tall man is now 10' feet tall and is looking to bust balls.
Hey ball busters, you shoot my wife or daughters with a pepper ball, Its going to be war.

AS stated from one LEO to anther wash 10,

NO INCIDENTS REPORTED THAT NIGHT WITH ANY DISTURBANCE, NO ONE WAS AROUND MY TRUCK OR MY BUDDY'S BUGGY FOR UP TO 25 YARDS.

18 YEARS ON THE JOB, 92' RIOTS WAS MY FIRST DAY OUT,
TRUST ME, IF I FELT IT WAS GOING TO GET VIOLENT, I WOULD HAVE GOT ALL OF US OUT OF THERE LONG BEFORE.
BOTTOM LINE, SHOULD I NOT EVER GO TO THE HILL AT NIGHT BECAUSE BLM OR ICSO HAS A RIGHT TO TAKE SOME POT SHOTS AT ME???

THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU POST

Was at a playoff game at the Forum that night, Lakers and I think Portland, couldn't imagine that being an officers first day out, it was f'in nuts down there...
Back to topic