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Full Version: Marines Release New Alternative 6 For Twentynine Palms Proposed Base Expansion
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TomJeeps
For Press Release and Map go to: http://pfjv.org/

The Partnership For Johnson Valley will issue a statement on the latest revision "6" after it's review of the new map.

In a brief statement, Chairman Harry Baker said that he is disappointed to see that none of the area to the east of the base was included, and again, it is the recreation lands and those lands that border the communities that are targeted.

[Brief Description of new proposed Alternative 6]

Proposed 29Palms Training Land/Airspace Acquisition Project
Project Description Paper Number 5 – November 2009
Alternative 6 (West/South)
About 140,000 acres west/19,000 acres south
Maneuver would start from the east on the
current MCAGCC base and the south
study area, and the MEB battalions would
converge on an objective in the west study
area.

No dud-producing ordnance use in 40,000
acres in the south of the west
study area; this 40,000 acres would be open
for public use when MEB training not
required.

About The Partnership for Johnson Valley: The leadership of the Partnership For Johnson Valley has been cooperatively working with the military and the affected Stakeholders in an effort to explore alternatives to the proposed land expansion. The PFJV is a division of the 501©3 California Trail Users Coalition. The Mission of the Partnership is to unite the many people who enjoy the diverse activities available in the multiple-use open access area of Johnson Valley. The Partnership’s charter is to promote responsible recreation and the use of desert resources through conservation and education. The goal of the Partnership is to ensure public open-access to the area in the present, and for future generations who Live, Work, and Recreate in Johnson Valley. For more information and updates, please visit www.PFJV.org
###
If you would like to donate to the Partnership, please send a check or money order in care of:
Partnership For Johnson Valley
3550 Foothill Blvd.
Glendale CA 91214
Paypal link
http://www.pfjv.org/donations_needed.htm
APHANTOMDUCK
My initial reaction is that this alternative in not any better than what we have seen before.
TroyKrum
QUOTE (APHANTOMDUCK @ Nov 26 2009, 09:20 AM) *
My initial reaction is that this alternative in not any better than what we have seen before.


x2 - looks like they reduced their amount of land wanted. But still disappointed they haven't even looked to the east!

Edit to say - it is nice to know they are at least trying to look like they are working with us.
jasonpwms129
Alternative 3 (South/East)
About 19,000 acres south/160,000 acres east

No Action Alternative
No New Lands or Airspace-Current Base

One of these are best for us
TomJeeps
QUOTE
Edit to say - it is nice to know they are at least trying to look like they are working with us.


Ok, who's they?

The Marine Core or the BLM ???
TroyKrum
QUOTE (TomJeeps @ Nov 26 2009, 02:27 PM) *
QUOTE
Edit to say - it is nice to know they are at least trying to look like they are working with us.


Ok, who's they?

The Marine Core or the BLM ???


"They" (USMC and BLM) are both working together on this. There are other organizations (PFJV, County of San Bernardino, to name a few) are also involved with interests. There have been many letters sent to State government with no good response. I appreciate all the agencies and organizations fighting for this but the process has left me feeling like nothing we do is going to stop "them" from getting what they want. Although this process has given us more input than other closures... I still am skeptical, with a lot of hope!
TomJeeps
The US Marine Core needs more land, why because they need to train three Divisions instead of just two, could they care less where it is well yes, but only as far as if they can use it. As far as the path of least resistance as to which land to take it's all BLM, as far as what they wish would go away it's all BLM. The shaded area is an acknowledgment of the technical terrain that cannot be replaced under the restrictions of current regulations, so OK we wont kill it forever by leaving live duds all over it, just use it for an undetermined length of time.

Could also be in response to local surrounding land manager (shop talk) input like, "hey you guys better not stick us with all them F#$%$%#^% rock buggies", all I'm going to say is watch what the BLM does with Clear Creek. I'm almost willing to say We'd be better off taking our chances with Dy Fi's deal except for one problem, BLM will still be managing the land and unless OHV use is mandated by her actions, it wont happen.


I feel this is a divide and concur trail balloon, by making a vague we wont kill the Hammers forever promise the surrounding land managers, and all the Rock crawlers will back away. My dad once said if you can get it Red Hot you can get it White Hot, our Governor once said in a movie if you can injure it you can kill it, I say if you can get it started you can keep it going. So what to do about it, push harder moving the line both East and North, which will Finlay force them East and South or just drop it all together.

Who knows with the National Dept hitting the Twelve Trillion mark, just like anything Else it just may get studied to death, which would suite me just fine looking at this POS...TJ
TomJeeps
For the record when you say "Marines" these are the king of people I think of, I'm just having a hard time dealing with the thought our Marines would do this to us...TJ

http://www.4x4corps.com/
TroyKrum
The light just went off... I now understand where you are coming from.

You see the Marines as an individuals... In this situation, I see them as a political, administrative whole. The Corps looks at this situation as an advancement in the organization... I don't see them worrying much about the extra curricular activities of a few.

For all of us... lets hope they move east.

And just for the record... the area they are looking at would work perfect for their training exercises as outlined (which were outlined with that area in mind by the way). We are actually trying to get them to settle for a less ideal area just so we can continue to use the OHV area. They have specific reasons they are looking at the area they are... it has certain requirements... specific amounts of entrances and exits, terrain, etc.

Now the best thing they have in their favor is the fact that they plan to 'replace' the land with land in another area. In fact, the deal they are planning seems to be better for the OHV community as a whole. The down fall is, it is in a whole different geographical area. The area they are attempting to obtain holds some of the nations most famous rock climbing and jeeping trails. They are actually giving us more land than they are taking and locking it in as OHV so it will never be able to be taken from us by the state (not sure about the feds).

So, it is a difficult situation all around.
TomJeeps
From all levels of the Core I'm trying to figure out what the malfunction here is, I lived in Irvine for three decades between two Marine base installations, over this time they have always been good neighbors what's going on at JV is not the Marine Corps I know...TJ
TomJeeps
QUOTE
Ever since an OHV leadership meeting about three weeks ago, I've wondered how our comments to this proposed withdraw/segregation Notice in the Federal Register will be utilized. We had some discussion on this and I was not too comfortable with the answers.

I since had a discussion with Roxie Trost - BLM Field Office Manager about what we are commenting to under 43 CFR 2310.3-1 (Regulations BLM is operating under) and even she was not clear about what BLM is to do with the comments provided for in Section (2)(v). I don't blame Roxie, this is a very rare regulation for any BLM official to fully understand.

Today, I called both the State Office and BLM in Washington DC (I have some excellent contacts in both) and talked with higher-up's and was finally given the answer.

The comments BLM is requesting are for a couple of purposes. First, it allows BLM and the Department of the Navy (USMC) to find all potential affected stateholders in this process and allow these stakeholders to participate in the upcoming NEPA public process.

Second, I was told today that the letters become part of the official record and the letters are essentially put into a box until the Secretary of the Interior makes his/her recommendation to Congress about the withdraw - in about two years from now.

There is two processes that are happening at much the same time. One is the Application the Marines have submitted, and the other is the NEPA process. At the end of the process(s), the Secretary then makes the recommendation (yes or no) to Congress for them to make the ultimate decision.

I was told today that BLM is looking for substantive comments rather than a volume of letters in support or opposed. The letter generator some have used can be a fine way of submitting one's comments, but they need to provide substantive information rather than the idea of "we don't like this because it affects our riding area".

So when you are writing your comments, please keep in mind that this is not some sort of voting process but rather an opportunity to submit tangable information that the Secretary of the Interior, through BLM, needs to consider in the Secretary ultimate decison.
__________________

http://district37ama.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24563

"Secretary of the Interior makes his/her recommendation to Congress about the withdraw", finally found this old post perhaps we should contact this person directly, because this "process' is just not working...TJ
TomJeeps
Feinstein to introduce legislation to establish 2 national monuments in Mojave Desert

QUOTE
The protected areas would encompass 1 million acres containing wildlife, extinct volcanoes, sand dunes and ancient petroglyphs. The senator says the bill could be enacted in late 2010.

Reporting from Barstow - Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) says she plans to introduce legislation today to establish two national monuments on roughly 1 million acres of Mojave Desert outback that is home to bighorn sheep and desert tortoises, extinct volcanoes, sand dunes and ancient petroglyphs.

Its centerpiece, Mojave Trails National Monument, would prohibit development on 941,000 acres of federal land and former railroad company property along a 105-mile stretch of old Route 66, between Ludlow and Needles.

The smaller Sand to Snow National Monument, about 45 miles east of Riverside, would cover about 134,000 acres of federal land between Joshua Tree National Park and the San Bernardino National Forest in San Bernardino and Riverside counties. Its diverse habitats range from desert scrub to yellow pine forests 9,000 feet above sea level.

The legislation, which had been delayed by efforts to resolve conflicts among environmentalists, off-roaders and renewable energy interests, would also designate 250,000 acres of public land near the Army's training center at Ft. Irwin as wilderness; add 41,000 acres to the southern boundary of Death Valley National Park and add 2,900 acres to northern portions of Joshua Tree National Park.

In addition, it would designate as permanent five existing off-highway vehicle areas in San Bernardino County covering 314,000 acres.

Feinstein, author of the 1994 California Desert Protection Act, vowed to make the legislation a priority. "In the best-case scenario, this legislation could be approved by late 2010," she said in an interview.

"This magnificent land and its lonely beauty are a significant part of our history, and we shouldn't give it up," Feinstein said, adding that private donors helped acquire the former railroad parcels "with the belief they would be protected from development. We have an obligation to keep them that way."

The railroad land was purchased between 1999 and 2003 with $45 million in private donations collected by the nonprofit Wildlands Conservancy and $18 million in federal funds, then donated to the Department of the Interior.

The Bureau of Land Management is reviewing 130 applications for solar and wind-energy development in the California desert, covering more than 1 million acres of public land.

At least 19 renewable-energy projects have been suggested within the boundaries of the proposed Mojave Trails monument, according to Feinstein, who has discussed her concerns with Interior Secretary Ken Salazar.

Feinstein's legislation would assist companies with projects currently proposed inside monument boundaries in relocating to federal energy zones being developed elsewhere. It would also permit construction of transmission lines within existing utility rights of way to facilitate the transfer of renewable energy generated in the Southern California desert and adjacent states.

Some congressional Republicans accused Feinstein of engaging in a not-in-my-back-yard campaign when her plans for legislation restricting renewable energy projects in California deserts surfaced earlier this year.

The senator countered that she "strongly" supports such projects, but only if they are built on "suitable" lands.

In an effort to avoid conflicts, BrightSource Energy Inc. and Stirling Energy Systems recently scrapped plans to build massive solar and wind farms on a panoramic stretch of the proposed Mojave Trails monument known as Sleeping Beauty Valley.

"We had a project within what we understand to be the boundaries of the monument, but we recently decided to withdraw it," said Sean Gallagher, Stirling's vice president of marketing strategies and regulatory issues. "We're trying to be respectful of what Sen. Feinstein has been doing in that area of the desert."

Environmentalists, hunters and off-road vehicle enthusiasts expressed support for Feinstein's legislation.

Elden Hughes, an honorary vice president of the Sierra Club, described it as "good news -- and darned important because it means this land would never be built on or fenced off."

James Conkle, founder of the Route 66 Alliance, which seeks to protect the historic route linking Chicago with Southern California, said the bill would "open up the desert to more travelers, sparking interest in fascinating, out-of-the-way places like Ludlow, Amboy and Essex."

Megan Grossglass, spokeswoman for the Off-Road Business Assn., was more cautious in her appraisal. Her group "has not had a chance to fully analyze the bill," she said, "so we cannot give it our endorsement, but we are supportive of the balanced approach it seems to take."

Mojave Trail, a four-hour drive from Los Angeles, includes such environmentally sensitive areas as Afton Canyon, a four-mile ribbon of green wetlands wedged between weathered rock walls, and Amboy Crater, a dormant volcano.

Then there is Sleeping Beauty Valley, a 150-square-mile expanse roughly 60 miles east of Barstow. It contains bighorn sheep, a newly discovered species of lupine that features showy purple blossoms in the spring, and unusually dark lizards that appear to have genetically adapted to the volcanic terrain.

During a tour of the area Sunday, David Myers, executive director of the Wildlands Conservancy, scrambled up a rocky hill at the base of a row of snaggletoothed mountains freckled with clumps of brittlebush.

"Heroic country, isn't it?" he said. "Just a few months ago, there were plans to cover this entire landscape with solar and wind farms. Instead, with this legislation, we are striking a balance with the insatiable demands of population growth."

louis.sahagun@latimes.com
Copyright © 2009, The Los Angeles Times


MAPS http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-mo...2680002.graphic
Brewster
How many acres would we have to give up in order to "save" 314,000 acres? Remember folks, they like to keep chisleing away at OUR recreation areas.

Ride on
Brewster
Kevin
icon_sad.gif
TomJeeps
People I've been on the phone to are trying to stay optimistic saying things like "the devils in the details I'm still looking at it", well so far the more I see it the less I like it, but frankly if it comes down to who do you trust so far I'll go with the Marines...TJ
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