So it wasn't a BS ticket after all.

yes, I still think it was BullI eat poo

The information that you received from the Ranger was not correct. Many of the BLM and ICSO LEO’s do not understand the true purpose of the “Tow-In” permit. The details have been shown in post # 36 of this thread.

If anyone encounters this scenario where you are told that a street licensed vehicle operated in the dunes needs this permit please fill out the form at the link below?

Link to ASA LEO Contact form

The ASA will be bringing these issues up with the responsible agency to get all their personal to be knowledgeable of the rules and regulations that are in place at the ISDRA. The ASA needs the complete details of the contact to be able to contact the agency and discuss the issue.

Probably the same thrill you get from somebody supersizing their Big Mac value meal.Mission accomplished. J/K

I know I am going to open a can of worms, but last time I was at glamis, there were 4 fatalities arrests everywhere a drug bust in the camp next to me (which did reek of weed..but where doesnt anymore.). What I am getting at is this, I believe the BLM is seeing the number of DUI, drugs and people who wont mind throwing down, climbing. It seems like this comes in waves, I mean remember the 90's and the real reason Competition is shut down at nighttime? I think blm is now turning into asses till people get right back into line.

lets get this right...
We know throughing gas on a christmas tree is wrong (and the dude admits it.. KUDOS for being a man)
we know glass bottles are wrong...(it sucks but its the law, and come on we know we dont want glass with our kids)
we know front plates are wrong...(I GOT a ticket to for the front plate, I hated it..but OWELL i got one)

follow the rules and lets lay low for a while....THEN party in a few.

ABSOLUTELY.

Green lights are technically illegal both ON and OFF road. IF you have one at all, you ARE a potential customer for the LEOs.

There are no laws that require you to have a light on your whip.

Personally, I don't run a light at all. Granted, I seldom ride at night and I do agree, it's a safety issue. But a LEO could use ANY color light as a reason to pull someone over then write a BS ticket for something else. Im not giving them that reason.

Put yourself in their shoes. If you were a "LEO" would you play games with your fellow Leos and see what "BS" ticket you could give out?

On a big weekend they pull officers from LA, SD, and el centro. I would be pretty pissed off If I had to travel down there to work.

you mean these officers from LA, SD and El Centro are forced to work there?

No, just a suggestion considering they take no special training to go work down there. So they either sign up or they are requested...

My first time to Glamis was 10 years ago. I went with someone who had been going for years. When we got there we packed up and went to comp. hill. I saw people lighting gas on the side of the hill and digging trenches which when people drove into them and got stuck the crowd would kick sand on them and throw full beer cans and BOTTLES at them. I remember thinking what kind of people do this? Who raised these people? I went a few more times but didn't start going again till about 6 years ago. Glamis is a much better place now and it is a place I will take my kids when they are older. I would not have taken my kids to the old Glamis. So I love to sit and watch all the fools complain about their tickets and I especially love when they say they're not coming back. More room for us respectable people.

I am sure they dont complain about the overtime either.My bet is they take it for the overtime and not "forced to work there"

I'm usually the first to jump on the Band wagon, but this issue comes from both sides. A$$ hat duners at times and young badge heavy rangers are the two issues. If the people getting cited really feal they are in the right then what maybe they should start fighting it in court. If the courts see people fighting the same "wrongful" cites then the judges will eventually take it up with the agency. The Judges don't like seeing LEO's being unreasonable. Most of the cites seem legit, but some seem out there too.

I agree with the above post though. It was out of hand in the 90's thus we are now paying for not keeping our friends in line then. The unfortunate part of the 90's was alot of the EL Centro local trouble makers were coming out mixing it up too, which created alot of problems too. I agree with some of the posts above. Start policing our own camps, and keeping problems to a minimum to generate less stats. The reason they are getting so much funding for extra rangers is because the stats support the extra money. If we keep things mellow and stop doing A$$ Hat things the stats will decrease and in the next few years there will be a less LEO presence and a safer family experience.

I think this is incorrect concerning off-road warning lights.

38346. A person shall not display a flashing or steady burning red or blue warning light on an off-highway motor vehicle except as permitted by Section 21055 or when an extreme hazard exists.


Added Sec. 24, Ch. 908, Stats. 2004. Effective January 1, 2005


Not sure about on-road usage, you're probably right about that. I've been running a green whip led on my quad for 4 or 5 years and never had a problem.

X2 !!! I also heard when people got stuck in the ditches at comp , azz hats would lite thier quads on fire ? I am thinking those azz hats, are the ones that now complain about getting tickets !

I understand your thinking, thats JMO, but it's also about money. Look at it administratively also. They are paying a lot of OT for these guys. IMO as soon as the stats reflect a decrease in serious offenses I bet you will se less of a LE presence. I don't see kids ran over by buggies very disney like, and thus the LE presence. With that said as long as have people getting caught up with alcohol in theirs system, while driving, you won't see the presence drop off. If you compare Glamis to the 90's it is Disneylike, but there's a bunch of A$$ hats out there still. So the "bad element" is still hear, it's just what I see as the "bad element" and what you see as the "bad element" as. Guess we''l have to agree to disagree......

IMO, since the mayhem is down, they are trying to keep the stats up by making as many contacts as they can,
thus ensuring more (or continued) funding and avoiding layoffs or a reduction in the overtime.
a "jobs" program, if you will.

Stonehenge and Robbie are absolutely correct. When has anyone actually seen a govt dept scale back when its not needed as much? No criminals in Glamis, lets bust for the small crap, it all looks the same on the spreadsheet at the end of the day.

Watch them go back to policing the passes in house when they have to reduce manpower...

It becoming an institution.
More government begets more government.

On the nose.

They have a strong incentive in not solving all of the problems, but continuing to keep up the stats at the same times.

When you repeatedly see an average of 3-5 LEO vehicles swarm a pass violator is all starts making sense.

CLICKY can you realy blame them somtimes for going just a little overboard. Pulled these two over because he couldn't read the plate.

IDK, cant compare the scenarios.
A dad with 2 boys, 8-12, with clear windows on their truck and an open trailer with 3 quads on it, in broad daylight on a crowded weekend, while waiting to merge on to the 78, doesnt seem like it would require 3 LEO vehicles. If they do, then we cant afford to keep the dunes open. Shut em down and send them all home.

Gotta watch out for those 8 yr olds! They just snap like a bad pit bull...

Police Officer's never know whats going to happen when they conduct a traffic stop. Its all to easy to assume when your looking in from the outside. Maybe more people should do the Ride-A-long program once or twice with a Police Officer. Maybe we'll have a better understanding of what goes on, and why Officers conduct business the way they do.

On road laws apply off road as well unless specified otherwise.

Meaning, when the law says "all vehicles" that includes off road.

If it is a "on road" specific law, it will specify "highway use" or some form of that.

Thus non specific laws apply to ALL vehicles, on and off road.

It is not uncommon as we all know for people to run lights of various colors. And chances are, you will never get stopped for the color, my point is simply that if a LEO wants a reason to pull you over, a colored whip light is his reasonable cause to stop you...and then the can of worms is open.


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Color of Lamps and Reflectors

25950. This section applies to the color of lamps and to any reflector exhibiting or reflecting perceptible light of 0.05 candela or more per foot-candle of incident illumination. Unless provided otherwise, the color of lamps and reflectors upon a vehicle shall be as follows:

(a) The emitted light from all lamps and the reflected light from all reflectors, visible from in front of a vehicle, shall be white or yellow, except as follows:

(1) Rear side marker lamps required by Section 25100 may show red to the front.

(2) The color of foglamps described in Section 24403 may be in the color spectrum from white to yellow.

(3) An illuminating device, as permitted under Section 24255, shall emit radiation predominantly in the infrared region of the electromagnetic spectrum. Any incidental visible light projecting to the front of the vehicle shall be predominantly yellow to white. Any incidental visible light projecting to the rear of the vehicle shall be predominantly red. Any incidental visible light from an illuminating device, as permitted under Section 24255, shall not resemble any other required or permitted lighting device or official traffic control device.

(b) The emitted light from all lamps and the reflected light from all reflectors, visible from the rear of a vehicle, shall be red except as follows:

(1) Stoplamps on vehicles manufactured before January 1, 1979, may show yellow to the rear.

(2) Turn signal lamps may show yellow to the rear.

(3) Front side marker lamps required by Section 25100 may show yellow to the rear.

(4) Backup lamps shall show white to the rear.

(5) The rearward facing portion of a front-mounted double-faced turn signal lamp may show amber to the rear while the headlamps or parking lamps are lighted, if the intensity of the light emitted is not greater than the parking lamps and the turn signal function is not impaired.

(6) A reflector meeting the requirements of and installed in accordance with Section 24611 shall be red or white, or both.

© All lamps and reflectors visible from the front, sides, or rear of a vehicle, except headlamps, may have any unlighted color, provided the emitted light from all lamps or reflected light from all reflectors complies with the required color. Except for backup lamps, the entire effective projected luminous area of lamps visible from the rear or mounted on the sides near the rear of a vehicle shall be covered by an inner lens of the required color when the unlighted color differs from the required emitted light color. Taillamps, stoplamps, and turn signal lamps that are visible to the rear may be white when unlighted on vehicles manufactured before January 1, 1974.


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FYI, I will have to look up the exact penal code, it is illegal to record a peace officer without informing them you are doing it.

in that case, Rodney King never got a beating

If it is illegal to record a peace officer without informing them first, could somebody think of a valid reason why?

If it was, Im sure DOUBLEDUTY would know about it...

Absolutly on the money Robbie

I don't see where in the sections you posted that using colored lights in addition to required lights is prohibited. A whip light is an addition to all other required lights. Yours does not specifically state one color or the other cannot be used.

OK...

It says lights facing X direction are to be X color....

That sounds pretty simple to me.



(a) The emitted light from all lamps and the reflected light from all reflectors, visible from in front of a vehicle, shall be white or yellow, except as follows:

It clearly says ALL LAMPS...that would include "additional" lights as you call them

(b) The emitted light from all lamps and the reflected light from all reflectors, visible from the rear of a vehicle, shall be red except as follows:

That one clearly says ALL LAMPS also...that would include "additional" lights..

Are you still confused?

Nowhere does this allow for a green, blue purple or what ever color light to face either direction. Red lights cannot be used because they CANNOT face forward...white and yellow are even marginal...so actually, any light on a whip can be illegal...thus I dont run a light on my whip at all.

If the law you state is so inclusive that any whip light regardless of color can be illegal, then why did they create section 38346? It must be legal in some form otherwise we'd be seeing citations written for use of any whip lights, don't you think? They're citing for the smallest of veh infractions out there, but not whip lights? Additionally, according to the sections you cite, if my whip light was red facing rear, and white or amber for forward, it would be legal, no?

Hell, carrying empty beer cans in your ice chest is illegal also, but I dont see any tickets for that...

Whats that word I see here so often...oh yea, DISCRETION...they do use it.

Because it doesnt make any money...

Its pathetic that leo has to grasp at mundane pc to get a contact to fish.....


I know ! Have them publish a 20k page tax code /glamis rulebook so the uninformed can readup on the laws that they want the law abiding to adhere to?



Sound pathetic enough for ya?

Never told us what the ticket was for. I'll admit, some LEO's hand out some chicken sh!t tickets. I think your right, the 5-0! You shouldn't even bother calling them when you have some jackass ripping off your property or busting in your door to do a home invasion - they aren't worth the pot they piss in...

You mean like the California Vehicle code book?
Been available for years for just a few bucks..
Heck it's even available online

This stuff isn't rocket science.

Most is common sense.

Why do so many people drive on or off road without knowing the law?

People need to know what is a violation. They need to know what is a primary infraction and what they can and cannot be stopped for.

A for instance, you cannot randomly be pulled over just to be check for DUI, however you can be stopped for a blue whip light then subjected to DUI testing...So why run a blue light and give them a reason to stop you?

I wonder, of all the "bullshlt" tickets that we hear about, how many have ever been thrown out of court...How many were unlisted violations...How many were for laws that dont exists...
My guess is few to none.
The reality is, they ARE violations. The question is what prompted the LEO to write the ticket? What prompted the LEO to pull someone over to start with?
Usually the "BS" ticket is something like, I was drinking in the back seat of a rhino, or I was riding around camp without a helmet...
Cant blame the LEO's for those..
Those are common sense.

I've been away for awhile since we haven't been back to the dunes (other than for the cleanup) since Thanksgiving.

But that's kind of the point.

Someone in camp getting an open container ticket for a can in an ice chest on the back of the golf cart he was driving was just one of the reasons why we haven't been back.


I've witnessed quite a bit of "discretion" but it wasn't always what I think most people have in mind when they hear it discussed. Quite the opposite in fact. I've personally seen someone pulled over with a beer in hand pour it out and continue quickly enough they could not possibly have been cited, recently in fact. At the same time I've had someone in my camp cited for open container in a cooler he couldn't have reached while driving.

I've watched someone towing a broken buggy back to camp getting cited for not whip - even though they never even left dune buggy flats. The broken buggy had made it halfway from the drags back to camp. I offered to tow them back but they said they had a truck coming. Soon as the truck backed up to them a forest service truck pulled up and cited the truck for no whip. Yeah it was towards the edge - but I've seen people camped further up the ridge than where they were. They weren't in a high traffic area, they were driving carefully, and honestly they never left what I've always considered part of the camping area.

The only times I've seen enforcement on a big weekend let anyone off easy was if that person actually looked like trouble. Even if the officers outnumbered them vastly. But I've seen way too many friends (including friends who are closer than family) get threats or actual citations for things that would have given a much more positive impression if they had been treated as educational opportunities rather than assault sessions.

I only fear the BLM chooses now to stop their history of replacing personnel too often for them to be effective at their goals. Because the goals of Chief ranger Barrios seem to have little to do with creating a family friendly recreation area and everything to do with justifying attempts to increase his budget.

Until that changes, I'm just glad I have trail tires for my rail. And I'm finally getting to explore a lot of places I've been wanting to see but haven't had the time.

So I'm confused. Are lighted whips ok and what colors or not at all unless white?

No red, or blue. solid or flashing. but you dont have to have a lighted whip at all.

I have pretty much concluded that there's nothing left to chance on registrations, flags, lights and anything under the sun that these people can nail ya for. Used to get a warning on some things for an honest mistake. Pretty much the same on the highway. The CHP is just as aggresive with tickets these day's, to include trailers over 55mph. All about job security and making as much state and federal money as possible.

Thanks, I thought that's what it was.

agreed . The Vehicle Code was made for a 15 and 1/2 yr old to understand. And thought worded a bit awkward, makes dummmy sense.

I will always be one that if I was wrong and received a ticket so be it. Our sxs are registered in Arizona, we live in california. My wife received a ticket for this. Her license is A CA one. This ride is reg'd in her name. He said this is registration fraud to do this. If I were driving the ride, being not in my name he could not give me a ticket. My understanding. They are registered in AZ so they can be street legal on rides in other states. SO how we handle this, my ride is in her name and her ride is in my name. This started because I asked 5 officers direct questions and got 5 varied answers, decided to handle it this way.

I did get stopped in pismo for red whips, I have never been stopped in glamis for this!



Bottom line no likes to receive tickets, however when we need help who we gonna call?

i dont like the "leos" out there at all they are rude and dissrespectful. my friends and i have been harrassed by them on multiple occasions which has led us to not enjoy the long holiday weekend trips anymore. once, we were unloading the toyhauler because we had just gotten there and were cited for not having flags on the vehicles... had not even started the motors yet but because we didnt have the flags on before we pulled them out of the trailer it was illegal. another time... we work in the studios so we have access to some things... speakers for example.. were sitting on top of the trailer... not on and in early afternoon... the pulled in and cited us for intent to party... how is that illegal.. and who the #$% goes to glamis not to party. just last halloween was the kicker and the last holiday for us though when my quad broke and my buddy with his buggy was towing me... apparently they decided to pull us over because its illegal to tow... they were so nice because they ONLY gave us warnings for something THAT AINT ILLEGAL. that fact of the matter is they do harrass people who dont deserve it and i have written letters with badge numbers and everything but it doesnt do anything because most of the officers ive talked to out there arent even from ca and as far as reading the rules... every year i always print out copies and hand them out to my friends with the new laws highlighted so we can be law abiding citizens but it doesnt seem to pay off.. growing up i always went there with my family and there wasnt a such thing as a ranger out there and we didnt have problems

WOW !! That is some serious Bullsh*t tickets. No flags for unloading your toys ??? wow. Got to love the Intent to party. ha ha I sure hope you guys listened to him and had no fun all weekend.

I got harassed twice this week out in Glamis.

We went for a night ride and ended up at Olds late saturday night. It looked like they had just run everyone out because there were several fires still burning unattended so we pulled up to one that was near some LEO's. I was curious about what happened at the drags so I walked up to him and asked what happened at the drags. He was kind of snootie and said "2 broken femurs and thats all the info I have". Ok thanks, and went back to my RZR and fire. Dude fires up his SUV and pulls drives 30' or so over to our fire (the one he just watched us pull up to) and gets out of his car and threatens to give us a ticket if we dont pull the trash out of the fire!!! The previous owners of the fire had tossed an empty Natural light can in there. The guy knew it wasnt ours but decided he wanted to be a dick and made us fish it out.

The next incident happened the next day. We camp about a mile or so into the dunes off sweet maries. My GF showed up and didnt want to pull her Ford Tribute Hybrid into the dunes so we were gonna leave it by the fence near the ranger station. She has a pass but the top is torn on it and it wont hang from the mirror so it was sitting on her dash. I asked where we could park her car and his reply was "Where is her pass, I need to see it". Then after she physically handed the pass to him he threatened to take it away because it was ripped and no longer valid (totally straight faced, not joking one bit). Then he lectured me for not having my seatbelt on and threatened a ticket but I actually did have my lap belt on and he couldnt see it because its lower than my door. Never gave us any help. My girlfriend who is fairly new to the dunes asked me why they were such jerks out there???

What the hell is wrong with these people? Some are real nice and then some are like these guys. They seem to have no people skills whatsoever. If I was that unprofessional at my job, I wouldnt have one anymore.

Was 9-11 an inside job too?

ok im all lost and dont even know if this is the right section
what is the latest,were going to the washes over thanks giving..

you need the paper work that goes with your stickers on your bike,kept in your bike ??

everything has to have spark arrestors ??(know where i can get em for my shee,with fmf fattys) ??

i have 5 year old fuel cans,thats a sitation waiting to happen ??
can i have em with just tops,but not spouts,i already spent 300 on this crap
now i gotta do it again,is there a way i can have them in camp,but not get cited ??

dogs on leashes,at all times ??

certain flag colors ???,my yellow smiley face isnt allowed ??

if i drive my truck into the dunes to retriev a broken buggy i need a.... Special Recreation Permit (SRP). ?????

if i get a 1 week pass,i cant stay from sat to sat,but must leave fri..theres no one day pass ???

did i leave anything out.
please help me with info,i dont want to be hasseled,im so not in the mood

Well, Dave, lessee….

1. I recommend you keep a copy of the current registration on the your toy. Also recommend that you carry ID of some kind with you.
2. Every OHV is supposed to have spark arresters everywhere in Calif. I tend to agree that it’s a bit ridiculous for Glamis, but there ARE sensitive biological areas out there that could burn.
3. The fuels cans shouldn’t be an issue.
4. Dogs on leashes. Same as anywhere else.
5. Technically, the top flag is supposed to be red (not sure size). I don’t personally know anyone who’s been ticketed for having some other color. But….SEE BELOW.
6. You need the Special Recreation Permit (Pass) to drive your truck TOO the dunes, which must be displayed at all times. IF you tow your toy (Truck, Jeep, Manx etc) to the dunes, you may request a special ‘towed in ‘permit from BLM at the appropriate ranger station, HOWEVER, that towed in vehicle must NEVER touch the pavement (except to cross at 90’ angle), or it MUIST have the SRP Pass.
7. No one day passes.


Ok, NOW to these comments:








All I can say is: Badge Numbers and Written COMPLAINTS. Rinse, REPEAT!!!

Along with who ever else you want to send them to, send them here:

Nicole Giles e:mail: ngilles@asasand.com

or to me:

Lloyd Misner e:mail: corvairs123@msn.com

I will certainly get back to you, one way or the other. If we don’t continually biatch, formally, NOTHING will change. Document, document, document. I would REALLY like to see a copy of the citation for ‘Intent to Party’ and specifically what ordinance or rule was used to write that one. And would like to know what you did about it.

I don’t share Stony’s Catch-22 pessimism. However, EVERY LEO I’ve talked with, obviously off the record, has admitted that there IS an ATTITUDE TEST. No DOUBT. Fail that test, and you’ll probably get cited, like for a yellow smiley face flag that would otherwise be ignored. Heck, about 70% of the toys out there don't have 'legal' flags up. It’s just the way it is. So, when the LEO pulls you over, be polite and Yes Sir, No sir. It may be a BS ticket, but don’t argue with the LEO. That is what court is for. You do have a right to collect a badge number and a name. Which, in truth, should be on the citation.

As an added note, I camp in Wash 4. I usually do TG, New Years, Presidents and an off weekend here or there. I’ve not personally had an encounter with Mr. LEO. I’ve seen one ticket given for ‘saving space’ to a guy (with family) with caution tape up…saving space. He also admitted to the LEO he was ‘saving space’. It was Wednsday afternoon the day before TG when lots of people show up. Everyone in the Wash had caution tape up. And you betcha everyone (including us) took ours down ASAP. And, no this wasn’t recent, it was 3-4 yrs ago. Was it BS? Maybe. But then again, the night before, they needed to land a helicopter in the Wash for a life flight and all that caution tape made it difficult/unsafe for them to do so. <shrug>

You decide. The ticket may have been BS, but the guy who got it was breaking the rules and admitted to doing so.

In our camp, on a more recent outing, Sat. morning, a group of our young people, who’d been ‘partying’ all Friday night got a ‘littering ticket’ for not picking up their ICB cans. But I also know the ‘young people’ involved and I’d bet next months pay they failed the ATTITUDE TEST when Ranger Rick showed up. BS ticket? You decide. There was no question that the ICB cans were on the ground next to the old fire. They would have picked them up eventualy, because as a group, we don't leave trash when we go home.

What I’ve found, so far, is that when the ‘Rest of the Story’ (remember Paul Harvey) comes out, while the LEO may (or may not) have been a jerk, there was almost always something that attracted his attention

A final note. I do know, personally, of someone in our group, a friend of mine, who DID get a BS citation. He fought it. Through the mail. Guess what.

He WON. It got THROWN OUT.