Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Ohv Groups Furious Over Funding Source For Survey
GlamisDunes.com > Sand Community Issues > Glamis Issues
The Pastor
QUOTE
QUOTE (Robert Funkhouser)
FYI -- I think the BLM only designates $200,000 a year in appropriated funds
for the Dunes. An area that has 1.5 million visitors.
Robert


(Imperial Valley Press Online)
http://www.ivpressonline.com/articles/2004...news/news02.txt

By MARC SCHANZ, Staff Writer

Tuesday, April 6, 2004 3:24 PM PDT

Off-highway vehicle groups are petitioning Congress and the U.S. Bureau of
Land Management, furious that user fees from the Imperial Sand Dunes
Recreation Area are the sole funding source for a mandated plant survey of
the Peirson's milk-vetch.

"We're not opposed to monitoring. We realize that has to be done and we
support good science," said Roy Denner, president of the Santee-based Off
Road Business Association.

Denner claims the four-month monitoring program, being conducted by BLM
staff and contract workers in the dunes, is being paid for by the user fees
of off-road enthusiasts who flock to the outdoor attraction during major
holidays.

Citing that the surveying is called for in the yet-to-be-implemented
recreation area management plan, or RAMP, proposed by the BLM, Denner said
he takes issue that OHV users are paying for the study on their own.

"These are studies that are being mandated by the government," Denner said.
"Why isn't the government paying for them, or at least helping?"

BLM El Centro Field Office Manager Greg Thomsen said he has spoken with many
representatives of the OHV community but concedes there's little he can do.

"Unfortunately, we have to do these surveys. They are critical to
implementing the (RAMP)," Thomsen said. "We have limited funding and some of
our funding sources this year came up short."

Thomsen points to the fact that California's OHV commission, which normally
doles out grants to BLM's enforcement activities in the dunes, held back on
grants for the Imperial Sand Dunes operations this year.

"It's unfortunate but we had to do it this way," Thomsen said.

OHV groups claim scientific surveys they sponsored are being ignored in the
process.

Denner points to the research of Arthur Phillips and his surveys of
milk-vetch in the dunes, commissioned by a host of off-road vehicle groups,
research that points to the milk-vetch's health and resiliency in the dunes
environment.

"They haven't taken any of this into the process of evaluating the
(species)," Denner said. "Fish and Wildlife have decided that there is
enough evidence to support looking at a delisting petition, so I don't see
why Phillip's work is being ignored."

Lynette Elser, resources chief at the BLM's El Centro office, said while
Phillips' studies are excellent science, the BLM's survey is a much wider
and comprehensive study.

"We're not looking at longevity of the plant in certain areas. We're trying
to find out just how many of these are out there in the dunes and where do
they live," Elser said.

In the background of the dispute over the management plan lies the pending
decision by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service over whether to proceed with
delisting, or removing from a threatened species list, the milk-vetch, a
decision closing in on its May deadline, according to spokeswoman Jane
Hendron, with the service's Carlsbad office.

Compelled by a lawsuit filed by the American Sand Association and other
groups, the service must make a sped-up review of all the information
regarding the milk-vetch before it can proceed with a delisting petition,
Hendron said.

If the delisting petition proceeds after May, it would alter the balance of
the battle between OHV groups for open access to the dunes, and the
environmental groups seeking to keep closed areas sealed from vehicles to
protect plants and wildlife - putting the temporary closure areas in doubt
again.

>> Staff Writer Marc Schanz can be reached at 337-3452 or at
mschanz@ivpressonline.com

The Pastor smokin.gif
APHANTOMDUCK
Is/was the TRT aware of this use of the Fee Demo funds?

I don't recall any discussion about this use of the funds on this nor the other sand forum.
The Pastor
Yeah, I think they were aware... but I think this is one of those issues that falls into the typical... "Well, that's the way the system works."
QUOTE
BLM El Centro Field Office Manager Greg Thomsen said he has spoken with many
representatives of the OHV community but concedes there's little he can do.

"Unfortunately, we have to do these surveys. They are critical to
implementing the (RAMP)," Thomsen said. "We have limited funding and some of
our funding sources this year came up short."

A fairly predictable quote.

It has come up from time to time in the context of "Why do we pay these outragous fees if all it's gonna get us is more cops to count the PMV?"

BTW: a friend tells me that he has seen vast fields of PMV growing abundantly in the dunes. (with absolutely beautiful pictures!)

The Pastor smokin.gif
SailAway
I vaguely recall it being mentioned that this was discussed during the last TRT conference call, but I cannot locate minutes of that call to verify that recollection.

I would have to agree with The Pastor here... I'm sure this is just one more example of "That's just the way it is" which is precisely the answer the BLM likes to hear.

Everyone sits down and the boat stops rocking.

And we're left holding the bag.

Vicki
LoBuck
This issue about the monitoring being paid for with the Fees at the ISDRA was addressed at the TRT meeting January 23, 2004. A letter was sent to Gale Norton the Sec. of Interior, expressing the TRT's displeasure with the Fees being used for something that is mandated by the Gov.

The TRT repeatly states to the BLM that monitoring should be paid for by something other than the User Fees. If an agency requires a study to be done, they should supply the money for it.

QUOTE
January 29, 2004


The Honorable Gale Norton
Secretary
U.S. Department of the Interior
1849 C. Street Northwest
Washington, DC 20240

Dear Secretary Norton:

The purpose of this correspondence is to address a pressing financial issue dealing with the land management of the Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area (ISDRA) of the El Centro, California Field Office.

Preceding our concerns, we would like you to know that the ISDRA Technical Review Team is pleased with its continued involvement in the management protocols at the ISDRA.    We have a good working relationship with the El Centro BLM management and with its staff.  We strive at productive exchanges of ideas and the implementing of our strategies.

Under President Clinton=s administration, the Fee Demonstration program was implemented, thus enabling the formation of the TRT.  Upon presentation, Congress and the public were told that the Fee Demonstration program was a funding avenue to augment appropriated dollars.  In the past several years, since the implementation of the Fee Demonstration program, the TRT had been instrumental in making sound recommendations to the BLM on how to spend the money to improve the ISDRA. 

This fiscal year, the Fee Demo program has taken a turn and is now being used as an operational cost recovery program.    This is due in part to the loss of Off Highway Motor Vehicle Recreational Grant money from the State of California. 

In addition to the Fee Demonstration funding being used as an operation and maintenance cost recovery, the biological opinion as contained in the Recreational Area Management Plan calls for continue plant and animal monitoring.  In answer to this demand, the El Centro Field Office is planning on utilizing Fee Demonstration money to fund this ongoing project.

We, the TRT, feel that the fees at the ISDRA are among the highest in the country and, the monitoring studies will drive the fee=s even higher.

The biological opinion requiring species monitoring levied from one Federal agency to another has placed an unfair financial burden on the visiting public and due to its cost, jeopardizes basic services and resource protection. 



January 27, 2004                        Page 2


Due to its current majority makeup, the California Off Highway Motor Vehicle Commission is opposed to the assignment of grants to the BLM for use at the Imperial Sand Dunes. 

We therefore request your assistance in obtaining annual appropriated funding to operate, manage and conduct the mandated biological monitoring at the ISDRA.

In closing, the Fall 2003 joint BLM and US Forest service publication has listed the ISDRA as one of twelve outstanding locations in the United States where the public can enjoy various types of public land recreation.  The ISDRA is a World Class Off Highway recreation area and deserves to be treated as such.

If further assistance or information is needed, please feel free to contact either of us at the addresses or phone numbers listed below.




____________________________
Jerry Seaver, Chairman
Phoenix, AZ  85051



____________________________
Lawrence E. Jowdy, Vice Chairman
Ontario, CA  91762


A copy of the letter can be downloaded HERE from www.isdratrt.org

This was discussed again during our February 27, 2004 TRT conference call. Immediately following the call, Roy Denner, TRT Member and ORBA President sent this letter to Rep Pombo and others.

QUOTE
OFF-ROAD BUSINESS ASSOCIATION, Inc.

February 27, 2004

U.S. Congressman Richard Pombo
U.S House of Representatives
Rayburn Building #2411
Washington, DC 20515

Dear Congressman Pombo:

This letter is about a matter that I consider to be of a very high degree of urgency!

As I write, the Bureau of Land Management is kicking off an extensive monitoring effort in the Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area (ISDRA) – to the tune of $1 million!  The four-month project will employ 33 interns to scour the ISDRA looking for Pierson’s milk-vetch plants (PMV) and other imperiled wildlife to establish population counts.

The entire allocated budget for the ISDRA is only $200,000.  This project has been mandated by the Federal Government without any increase in appropriated dollars!  Guess where the money will have to come from – USER FEES!  User fees for the ISDRA have tripled this year and, with the delay to the implementation of the RAMP, recreationists there have seen NOTHING for their increased fees!  Why should we sand dune enthusiasts have to pay AGAIN for a mandated survey of the milk-vetch plant?  We already paid a well-known biological firm to do three different surveys on that plant and submitted the peer-reviewed reports to the BLM & USF&WS.  Our surveys, which involved actual plant counts and seed-bank counts, are as scientific as it gets!  USF&WS has already acknowledged that we have provided sufficient scientific information for them to proceed with the consideration of removing the plant from the threatened species list.  Why is it that the Federal Government needs to spend a huge sum of money on studies that have already been done and recognized?  Furthermore, if we succeed in getting the PMV delisted, this million dollars will have been wasted!

In this time of budget crunches at state and federal levels, it is interesting that the government can justify spending a million dollars for a duplicate study in the dunes when there is insufficient funds to pump toilets, pick up trash, and provide adequate law enforcement.  With the delay in getting a favorable biological opinion on the IDSRA RAMP, and the lack of adequate funding, we are facing the prospect of a significant increase in user fees next year to cover the cost of, not only operation and maintenance, but to pay for a duplicate monitoring study that may ultimately not be necessary.  OHV leaders in California, Arizona, and Nevada will have their hands full stemming a big-time revolt!

So, we need your help!  Either much more money has to be appropriated specifically (and real soon) for the ISDRA, or federal mandates to perform duplicate studies need to be removed!  Shouldn’t the environmental extremist groups, who used their funds to file lawsuits that got us into this mess, be paying for the environmental studies that they demand – instead of the OHV recreation community.

Thank you for letting me express my concerns about this totally unfair, and perhaps illegal, situation.

with best regards,

Roy Denner, President & CEO
Off-Road Business Association

Cc: Congressman Duncan Hunter
Congressman Randy Cunningham
Congressman George Radanovich
Congressman Darrell Issa
Congressman John Doolittle
Congressman Jerry Lewis
Congressman Ken Calvert
Congressman Gary Miller
Congressman Devin Nunes
Congressman Doug Ose
Assistant Secretary of the Interior, Craig Manson
Assistant Secretary of the Interior, Rebecca Watson
National BLM Director, Kathleen Clarke
CA State BLM Director, Mike Pool
CA Desert District Manager, Linda Hansen
El Centro BLM Manager, Greg Thomsen
Off-Highway Vehicle organization leaders
David Hubbard, OHV Attorney


I hope this will clarify the TRT's stand on funding for this monitoring program.

Thanks,
Glenn
LoBuck
QUOTE ( The Pastor @ Apr 8 2004, 01:58 PM)
Yeah, I think they were aware... but I think this is one of those issues that falls into the typical... "Well, that's the way the system works."


QUOTE (SailAway @ Apr 8 2004, 02:56 PM)
I would have to agree with The Pastor here... I'm sure this is just one more example of "That's just the way it is" which is precisely the answer the BLM likes to hear.

Everyone sits down and the boat stops rocking.

And we're left holding the bag.

Vicki

As you can see from the letters above, the TRT is not among those saying "That's just the way it is" nor are we any of those who "sits down and the boat stops rocking".

Be assured that the TRT is actively, and adamantly, opposed to Dune User Fees being used to fund these studies.
Winston Cup
FYI, for those that haven't been paying attention and are now making assumptions, here is a copy of some information posted in this thread on the ASA BBS regarding this issue by former ASA President and current TRT Chairman Jerry Seaver.

QUOTE (Jerry Seaver)
This issue about the monitoring being paid for with the Fees at the ISDRA is one that was addressed at the TRT meeting last Oct., a letter was sent to Gale Norton the Sec. of Interior, expressing the TRT's displeasure with the Fees being used for something that is mandated by the Gov.  Orba and ASA are going to Washington next week, and one of the issues that they will be talking about will be that monitoring should be paid for by something other than the User Fees. If an agency requires a study to be done, they should supply the money for it.


Let's wish ASA President Grant George and ORBA President Roy Denner along with ORBA's Jim McGarvie good luck on their trip to Washington next week. They have their work cut out for them, but these guys make a hell of a team.
Winston Cup
Woops, Glen ya beat me to it. Great job buddy, just trying to help you out a bit.
LoBuck
QUOTE (Winston Cup @ Apr 9 2004, 12:54 AM)
Woops, Glen ya beat me to it. Great job buddy, just trying to help you out a bit.

Thanks Guy. I did miss mentioning the trip to DC. Good point.
SailAway
QUOTE (LoBuck @ Apr 8 2004, 11:39 PM)
As you can see from the letters above, the TRT is not among those saying "That's just the way it is" nor are we any of those who "sits down and the boat stops rocking".

Be assured that the TRT is actively, and adamantly, opposed to Dune User Fees being used to fund these studies.

Thank you Glenn and Guy, and those letters are great and I'm sure the Washington DC trip is going to be great. Those of us that have been paying attention and are not making assumptions use those very same avenues quite often to make our voices heard, including letters to State and Federal representatives, and we appreciate those efforts.

I think where the boat stops rocking and where most of us see a lot of "that's just the way it is" is more on the local level.

The average dune user is effectively cut off from communicating with the BLM because we have a liaison, which is the Technical Review Team. Flexing those muscles far from home is nice; flexing them in our own back yard would make us all feel better I'm sure. Perhaps the TRT has been flexing those muscles locally but it just hasn't been brought to our attention.

Are there notes of the last TRT meeting that would demonstrate the outrage the average dune users are feeling?

Vicki
LoBuck
QUOTE (SailAway @ Apr 12 2004, 06:59 AM)
[QUOTE=LoBuck,Apr 8 2004, 11:39 PM] Are there notes of the last TRT meeting that would demonstrate the outrage the average dune users are feeling?

Vicki

I don't have notes that would do that as I haven't had any given to me by average dune users. I have had discussions about the monitoring with several dune users though. Most, while not at all happy with funding coming from their fees, understand that it needs to get done.

I will check my notes of the meeting.

The average duner is in no way cut-off from communicating with the BLM. By all means, the average duner should contact the BLM directly on any issue they feel they need/want to. The TRT is a resource for us, the dune user, but it should not be the only one.

Thanks
SailAway
QUOTE (LoBuck @ Apr 12 2004, 08:17 AM)
The average duner is in no way cut-off from communicating with the BLM. By all means, the average duner should contact the BLM directly on any issue they feel they need/want to. The TRT is a resource for us, the dune user, but it should not be the only one.

Thank you Glenn.

While this is a nice thought, unfortunately it is not exactly how the system has been working. Quite a few people have been told by numerous BLM representatives that one issue or the other should be handled through the TRT since that's what they are there for, rather than addressing that issue with the complainer/concerned dune user at hand.

For this particular dune user, I would have to say that I have an overall concern that much of what is being handed to the TRT by the BLM is just being accepted, rather than questioned at the least or protested at the most, at least at the local level.

Why am I so concerned with the local level? Because that is ultimately where our fate is decided. To get to the likes of Gale Norton takes stepping over the head of the dune manager, his manager, his manager and finally her manager. Getting to the manager's manager's manager's manager's boss is great but I'd like to see pressure applied all along the food chain too.

And that, friend-and-hard-working-TRT-representative-Glenn, is the only comment I was trying to make.

Vicki
APHANTOMDUCK
From what I see here, the ISDRA users and fee payers are paying for the weed survey that in a way was "mandated" by the lawsuit filed by CBD. So it would appear the alleged "budget shortfall" is blamed for the use of the funds, but I suspect that the "budget shortfall" was caused by the legal and settlement fees associated with the CBD lawsuit.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2012 Invision Power Services, Inc.