I'm planning on buying a dune quad and I need some help guessing. I know I want a Honda more or less because I trust them. There are a few very nice built 250R's in the FS section right now but I have no experience with them. If I don't get one of those, I would get a 450R because that's what I already know. Are the big bore 250R motors reliable? Are they finicky? I'm not going to have much time to work on whatever I decide on, so I need something I can do a tune up once in a while and just ride.
Also, what is going to hold it's value better, a built 250R or a stock 450R?

2 totally different beasts...
You want wiked, pin your head back acceleration.. Go 250r... But keep in mind, your always have to keep it on the pipe, no put, putt...
Value? You buy a 250r now for 2500, you'll get your 2500 back. The prices are frozen it seems, only cheaper when peeps are desperate or just want them gone..
I've been seeing 450r prices all over the board, but if you got one for 2500-3000k, you'll be in good shape.
The 250r will last a very long time if you treat her right... Seen alot of 20+ year motors on only a second bore...
Can't speak for the 450r's, don't own one yet.

250r for duning. Much lighter and better powerband for the sand. put's a smile on my face when I open it up. I've also owned 2 Honda 450's which are awesome bikes don't get me wrong. Just 2 totally different beasts. Stock 450r will need a pipe/cam and a few other small things otherwise it's a dog out of all the 450's.

Be careful not to get one too crazy on the motor for a 250 otherwise it'll suck that race fuel like crazy. Plus they are easier to tune up, no valves to worry about and much much cheaper and easier for a rebuild.

I would get a 450R kick start for your situation, you do not want to have to deal with the battery situation if you are only using it sparingly. You cannot go wrong with a 250R as well, but a little more maintenance is required.

just buy it hanson !!!!!!!!!!!!! you know it is bad azzzzzzzzzzzz

I'd go 450R also.


http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index....207709&st=0

How is the power on the 250R? From riding with 2 strokes in the past, I noticed they always had to shift twice as much as I did on the 450. Is a built 250cc going to have more low-end and mid range power? Obviously the big bore 250s will.

the 250 is more work to ride then a 450 for sure. 2 stroke are fun experience but it takes more to keep up with a 450.

You know I like the 250R's Josh, if you want one get it. You will not be disappointed.

Too far away! One is in San Fran, the other is in Phoenix

Phoenix? Meet in glamis

250R, proven motor, cheaper to rebuild a valve job on a 450R alone can be 2 top ends on a 250R, I have built several pump gas big bores that ran fine

too far ??


what from germany ?

make it happen

250R for Sure!!!

Get driving, let me know what one is better

I'm building a 250R right now, and I'm thinking it's going to be a lot of work to get it to hold a candle to the 450s I have built.

So right now, my vote still goes for the 450R. Better technology, better handling, much more reliable.

suspension on the 450r just kills the 250r also, no compairison imo.

I vote the 250r, I have ridden both and the 450r to me feels like a lazy relaxed ride which is really nice at times but you just feel like a stud on a 250r throwin it around in the sand!! You can build a 310 size motor on pump gas and still be pretty reliable and it will give you the tq so your not shifting a lot. My 250r does go threw a tank of gas (stock tank and each ride is about 2 hours or so) each ride where I could ride almost all day on the 450r. Either way you will be happy just depends on your ridding style.

Chalk up another 250R vote. They are really cheap right now and you can find really clean ones for very little money. I picked up a super clean 87 all stock with the exception of the pipe and silencer for 1800. It's never been rebuilt and it was hardly ridden at all. The frame still had the factory paint where boots typically rub against it. It's been a great bike.

My friend just had his cylinder ported last year and we put a 4mm stroker with the longer rod (He had an 86 with the short rod before). His motor is torquey like a 4 poke but screams when he wants to keep it reved up on the pipe. He can just cruise between 3rd & 4th gears while I ride the 87 shifting from 2-4th every other second while trying to keep up. He feels the same way when I ride my built Banshee though so I guess payback is fair.

I've been hearing about how the 250R is with a little motor work and I think that's what I'm going to look for. I already have a 450R and always wanted a 2 stroke anyhow. Thanks for all the input. Now I just have to find a ready to go dune quad

dude if you have a 450R now put half the money you would spend on even a play jane 250R in the 450R and call racers edge!!. you would need alot of motor work done to a 250r (at least a decent running Pro-x cylinder) to run with a stock bore or small big bore done by RE or any of the good shops. ask Morgan what you would have to have done to a 250R to run with say a 480 from Racers edge.

I think their is a logistics problem with that.

germany i see

My 450 is in WI where it will be staying until I grow up and decide where to live, so at least a few more years. I need a dune quad because driving 2,000 miles with a quad on a trailer is out of the question. And now I'll have even more reason to come out and see everyone more often

A 250R is the only way to go. A nice 310 - 330 kit on pump gas will eat 450s . I've had the baddest ported 250 motors all the way up to a 410 on alky .

both bikes setup the same i couldnt disagree more.

My bike which is one of the ones he's looking at has yet to lose to a 450 dune bike, I'm not talking about sleeper drag bikes either. Most piped, cammed and ported 450's I'll pull 5-10 bike lengths on

I hear yeah nice bike, i would think that would be the result with most 450's you run into.
not trying to start anything but the same money in a 450R built buy the right shop the 450R will run quite abit faster. (only 2 shops i would go to)
if anyone is looking for a nice R yours looks like a good one.
i personally have been into 250R's since 86 i still own the ATC in my sig its no slouch. i also have a 686 Kenz raptor & kenz 727 raptor.

good luck with your sale. i am a 250R fan

maybe a poorly setup 450.

what do u call a sleeper drag bike

hehe any bike that beats his

that is kinda what it sounds like lol

Dollar for dollar motor wise the 450R wins. Easiest motor as of right now (besides the 700R) to make quick, easy power out of. Each bike makes power differently and not all HP numbers will yield the same results. I can tell you that it will take a 75HP 250R to run with a 60HP 450R.

A good 310-330 on gas should be in the 55-58 HP range. A 450R with the same added CCs with a good head would be in the 65-70HP range, bye bye 250R.

no way jose,

dollar for dollar 250R wins, a nice 65HP stock bore/stroke 450R will cost you 2K and then some depending on cams, springs, valves, who does the porting. for 2K you can build a legit 250R that will smoke 95% of the bikes your roll up against.

there will always be guys like morgan with amazing sleeper 450's, but the medium to average 450R with pipe, intake, and cam will not hold up against a $599 310ESR bolt on kit.

I still pull a bike length on 450's all day long at the drags with a 1985 250R three wheeler with a pipe, 38mm carb and my own porting ON A STOCK CYLINDER, in no way is the bike special, but it gets the job done.

Ive owned them both and what I find funny is the 4 stroke guys will never tell the "truth" these 4 strokes are not lower maintenance, you will beat your valve into your head in any performance application, VALVES alone can run you up to 200 bucks, springs another 150, and the list goes on and on. My 250R's have run the same top ends for over 5 HARD years of running, i dont baby them at all and they still keep coming back for more. and guess wat? a hone and piston will run me 250.00 bucks and Ill be back into the dunes. try doing that with a 4 stroke (your talking piston, guides, valve job etc).

This debate has been done over and over again, and people will hop on the 4 strokes for ever bandwagon and roll off into the sunset with receipts up to their eyeballs.

Power wise the 4 strokes has not flat out surprised me, they are very impressive and I myself owned a very fast 450R before I sold it, but money for money it didnt beat my banshee's or 250R's with the same amount of money...


One more rant before I leave, I have a Cheetah 421PV Banshee, the top end and crank complete cost me 2400 bucks and made alittle over 100RWHP. Take and dump 2400 bucks into any fourstroke on the market and try and get that level of performance.

with the new Puma top-ends for 250R's it just starts this craze all over, 80hp 250R race gas motors are not abnormal anymore.

Where to start...Well I can count the amount of "legit" 250Rs I have ever run across on one hand. ESR's bolt on kits are lesssssssss then stellar. Only if Jay or Eddie himself does the work are they ever good IMO. The $599 plus money for carb, pipe, yadda yadda, so say your into it a grand..Same amount on a 450R pipe, intake, cam, etc. setup right, gearing, weight reduction ( since the 250R is lighter to begin with) and GLIDERS will walk that same 310. Done it many times. 4 strokes are very reliable even modded, just need to know the right parts to use. Ever foul a plug on a 450R out in the middle of the dunes? Nope. For an average non-mechanical duner I would suggest the 450R day in and day out. Big bore 250Rs are not the bike to start out on with beginner mechanical skills. Like you said this could be argued for days and each person can and will make a valid point. But 2 strokes are not as user friendly as 4 strokes.

There are a FEW Pumas out there that make the power you stated, and they are not on gas. The Puma is a VERY specific combination of parts to run well. You start to stray from those parts and the power dwindles, 5-8HP per item. And talk about a big money motor! 5-6 GRAND for the right combo of parts.

Banshees, eh, nothing out there is going to beat a Banshee except another Banshee. This again is where I talk about HP not being equal. Most Cubs are in the 92-95 range on gas as a 421. It only takes a 60HP 4 stroke to run with a 4 mil. I've got video of my white bike at 65+HP running side by side with two different 7 mils on this site.

I do agree that it takes money to go fast. But I still think that dollar for dollar the 450R wins. I have seen some big time "Inner Circle" ESR 370 motors and it took a ton of "grasping at straws" work to get them to make the power that they did (72 HP) and neither was a cheap build. I can make 72 with a 450R with my eyes closed.

Im gonna be happy at 65 or 70 with this Sphynx. I hope I can still ride, cause I have a feeling Im going to need to make up some difference.

I have on 04 450r kick start. HRC kit and a rossier pipe. Really fun, Really fast and all i do is change the oil at the start of the season. The bike keeps up with anything in the dunes. You will ALWAYS find a bike that is faster shooting up the hill no matter what you have.

Happy shopping ....i do agree with your choice to "ride red"

What's up Josh? Here's my opinion. I say go for the TRX450. I doubt your going to buy a quad then go dumping 3-4K in motor work and suspension. A TRX out of the box will dune with any group that goes to glamis. It has good lights, it doesn't foul plugs or need to be fiddled with. The suspension is very good and won't need upgrading unless you like to jump big. Gas milage is excellent which has become a big thing for me atleast. The motor is very reliable, won't overheat, and maintainance aside from oil changes and filters is minimal. Plus, you won't be on a 25 year old bike that has 25 year old seals, joints, and 25 years of frame fatigue. The TRXs are plentifull, reasonably cheap, and you can find bikes that haven't hardly been ridden for under $3500 or so. There is no premium asked for TRXs like there still is for a 250R.

The 250R is a great quad and has influenced every manufacturer since. They are very fast still and plenty reliable. They just aren't as good of a choice for what you are asking for as a 450R. Take this as you will. I still enjoy riding on my 400EX and I keep up with the fast guys while duning, just not at the hill.

Whatever you end up with, make it out to a gathering and go riding with us!

cheap, reliable and fast dont go together

Meet me next week at the nightride and I bet I can change your mind. As long as you can keep up with a guy who prefers knobbies on his 400ex.

No hard feelings Morgan, there will always be to sides to each story!! and you did come from the best fourstroke shop hands down!!! I would love to twist the dunes with you some time!!!

Absolutely, just let me know when.

I don't think he's looking to shoot up a hill then ride down, shoot up the hill then ride down, shoot up the hill then ride down, shoot up the hill then ride down......shoot down the drags then ride back, shoot down the drags then ride back, etc....etc....etc......

Thats what all the fast guys do......don't you want to be a fast guy???????? Unless you do jetting runs at 3 am 5 feet away from somebodys camp nobody will know how fast you are unless you run the drags and the hill all day every weekend.

I thought all the "fast" guys raced the EPO races??

Ha, I don't even know where the drags are held!

find a bike yet ????????????????????

Hey Morgan who is building up the Sphynx for you?

Just buy a 7 mill cheatah pv duner banshee. Soft ride, ungodly fast, and sexy. blah on hondas......

I hope you weren't refering to me morgan... got mad props for that 450 but my banshee aint no joke either...

On a serious note... get what you like. Both/ all bikes have possibilities. Any modified bike will have issues somewhere and all bikes can be made to be competitive. If speed is where its at get a banshee and build it right. I dont even run my bike all out most of the time. All that matters is your wheel is in front of theres.

The new 4 strokes arent cheap to build right or cheap to maintain right after being built if you dont work in the shop that built it. Normal 2 stroke build and rebuild is alot cheaper than a built 4 stroke.

Simple mods thou gotta give it to the 4 strokes... for the first $1000 invested hard to beat a new bike with a old bike. When you step over that "duner" threshold I'd take 2 strokes all day over a 4 stroke. Just my 2 cents on it.

Get the bike you like and enjoy it. Everyone has a opinion but you are the one that is gonna ride it.

Nothing close to you yet that has the setup I'm looking for, I have plenty of time though... Seeing anything out there?

I can speak for Morgan, but my bikes make maybe one trip a riding day to the hill for about 30 minutes, and then its duning.

Iam pretty sure Morgan rides his bikes very well in the dunes though...