So, mostly going to be used for trails / fire roads. Occasional / incidental street use - but some street use just the same.

Friend has one - KTM450 EXC, other has Suzuki 400, one is planning a KTM 525 and me - I am thinking XR650L or DRZ 400. We will likely trailer to outlying mountain areas / towns to go exploring. No desire to ride in metro areas.

I am 6' and about 210+-. What would be the better choice of the two - XR650 or DR400 and why? I am thinking used and both of them have lots of aftermarket and can be found fairly easily on the used market.

Anything to look out for? Pitfalls of either? Not looking to rip it up, just looking for reliable and modestly adept on the dirt.

Thanks in advance.

There will be lots of opinions but one thing I think we can all agree upon - Lighter is better in the dirt! And the older you are, the more you'll feel the weight.

Ask me how I know? OUCH...nuff said

xr650l would be my suggestion. after owning an LTZ400 i have no faith in suzuki's ability to build a good bike. If you dont mind kickstarters there are alot of street legal xr650R's and XR600's these bikes are much better performing off road then the L model. but you give up a little on road comfort. the L is better on the road, but not as good off road. good luck, dual sports are a ton of fun!

Saw the perfect bike already set up for exactly what you want to do. WR450, 2006, street legal with fender tool bags, bark busters etc. $4k at southwest motorsports in Goodyear. The owner was just deployed to Korea

I just bought a Husqvarna TE450 Dual SPort from OB on here and its badazz. It is street legal, and very easy to de-smog and make full power. Its just starting to break-in and it will smoke a Suzuki 400 and super light and nimble. I did change sprockets and tires for the street and it gets 60 MPG going to work.

oh dang your in arizona, cant you pretty much make any bike street legal? if so if budget allows it i would say wr450 or crf450x

Since you're trailering your bike out to the trailes, I would also suggest a lighter bike than the XR. The XR isn't a trailbike. It's a haul ass through the desert like your pants are on fire and don't stop till you cross the finishline machine. The higher torque is usable on the freeway but for trails, the 450 or lighter bikes are the way to go. the DRZ400 is a great bike for trails. I tend to shy away from the exotics like husky and KTM because of price and reliability issues. They are awesome machines but they just aren't as sorted as the japanese. Case in point. My neighbors katoom 525 overheats on slow trails. He wanted a fire breathing rocketship but he is old and the slow trails he has been going on take a toll on the bike that was designed to go fast.

A plated XR400R would be a good bike also. Dead reliable, plenty of power, and great on gas. The 450 class bikes are very nice but you will pay a premium because they are all the rage.

Wow - just did a quick search on some XR 400s via CL. A fair number to be had and less than 2k.
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/mcy/1865159217.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/mcy/1834631101.html

That might be an option I had not really thought of. The weight would reconcile with Manaxru's comments. Thanks for that insight.

From your experience would a XR400 get out of it's own way on the highway? Seems the knock on the Honda's is down on power vs. other bikes - the upside from my stand point is the reliability.

The XR400 has about 30hp. It can get up to freeway speeds but it isn't happy there. The DRZ has almost 40HP. There lies the dual sporters conundrum. The DR650 and XL650 are street legal and will cruise the highway at 80 all day long but are heavy pigs. The 450 sized bikes are much lighter but are wound out at freeway speeds. There really is no magicly perfect bike yet. The DR and XL are more highway capable, less offroad capable. The XR650 is aimed more at wide open desert riding. Fast and in a straight line. The lighter 450 class is aimed for occasional surface streets and maybe hopping on the freeway to go down one exit. They are trail weapons though. Not pavement pounders.

The XR series is almost all stone reliable. They aren't the fastest or flashiest but they will get you there. And hinestly, if you can't keep up with you're buddies on an XR400R, you won't keep up with them with a DRZ400 or XR650R.

i know a cop that wants to trade or sell his dr650 duel sport. the trade would be 2000 or newer cr250 or a honda 450. let me know if you would be interested and i can get pics and info for you.

The concept of Dual sports is perfect, the reality is they aren't good at either dirt or street. Decide what you will do more of and go with the bike that is better for that type of riding. My 02

BTW, I have an 08 KLX450 that I will sell you for $4000

xr400 is on the bottom of the power you are looking for, but the IMS440 kit is not expensive and will bring it to life.

This is more of an exploring fire road deal. Roll into to town for lunch and not worry about being on the street. So with that in mind I had already ruled out most the 650's. Too street.

One thing I am keeping in the bike of my mind is that this would be a new adventure for me. "Jumping in" at the top of the food chain would not be that smart. IMO. That is, stay with a used bike, if I like the adventure, I can always upgrade later.




Is the XR 400 the same motor that the quad 400 uses? They seemed to wake up with minor mods. I had two of the Honda 400 quads - one bone stock, one with pipe, chip, jetting and air box - noticeable difference between the two.

From the input of the board, it is sounding like the Suzuki 400 would be a good choice for a first bike. The extra horsepower over the Honda would be good? But, going back to the trail use question - would a used XR400 be better on trails, etc than the Suzuki?

Husky 450 is 50hp fuel injected, killer suspension and I dropped one tooth on the back and went one bigger in the front and have a good combo of fire trail gear and jump on the fwy and cruise 60-65 mph to work. I bought a Corbin seat that makes the street rides really comfy and I put a set of Kenda 761 tires and it carves canyon roads now.

I have owned a street legal dual sport for 10 years and it is the only way to go. I would personally buy an older 450 than a newer 400, the 400's are just so down on power and without that it is hard to ride whooops and keep the front tire up when needed. JMO...Here is mine....

Click to view attachment

Looks like a nice bike.


I found a pair of them for sale -------

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/mcy/1866019568.html

I owned an XR650L for about a year. TO be honest, it was the worst of both worlds. It sucked on the street and it was awful in the dirt. Went back to my usual way of doing business....A CBR1000RR and a KTM 505XCF!!!! I'm sure there are alot better Dual sports out there but that 650 was an underpowered tank of a bike.

I don't know much about new Huskys but you would be much happier with that power over a 400. It is much easier to get out of trouble with a little extra throttle.

A 450 husky?

Looking to stay under 3k for the buy in.

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/mcy/1827499842.html

That looks like a winner right there. Way better than the XR or DRZ. Offer $2500 cash and you will have smokin deal.

Yummi, I've had or had experience with every bike named on this thread except for the Husky. My old roomate was a KTM & Husky mechanic and he was always complaining about them. I think the best bang for your buck on what your criteria is would be the Drz. If you want to give me a call I can walk you through all experiences with all the bikes. It would take a while to type it all out.

I thought you loved me - but it seems you don't care.......

Actually, purpose of the thread is to get opinions and debate amongst them that know. I will call as well, but the input from others is always good. Some one liners on the DRZ and XR400 / 650L and maybe the Husky?

Keep coming back to the DRZ.

Also found this DRZ on the west side.....

http://mohave.craigslist.org/mcy/1863337304.html

Guy says all stock.


Keep in mind this is a new adventure - I don't really want a huge buy in - if I can try the waters - see if I enjoy it, then I can upgrade.

Sausage hit it on the head. Living in Arizona has its opps to buy just about anything. A CRF 450 X would be great with the E- start. I own at the moment a KTM 690, CR 500, CRF 450R. I have owned XR 650R, CRF 450R cali street legal and a ktm 525 exc. This is just in the past few years. I belong to a large Enduro club here in SanDiego. No matter what you buy ask yourself how much dirt or street you will be riding and buy tires accordingly. If your bike has Trailwings they are only good on street. Tires come with what we call a percent of street dirt usage, like a trailwing would be called a 90% street 10% dirt. I run just the opposite, 90% dirt- Terra-Flex on rear for my 690 but suck on the street bit awsome in loose stuff.
San Diego Adventure Riders

Yummi, you know you are one of my favorite mother effers!!!!!!! I had to work and couldn't play.

Here's the quick run down:

DR650 (owned) - Big heavy bike with good torque and power. Air cooled, which I don't care for especially for hot (Arizona)conditions. Great for freeway riding but not very forgiving in the dirt (especially for novice riders).

XR650 (race team owned) - Big heavy bike with good torque and power. Water cooled. Great for the long fire roads but a lot of work in the tighter stuff. Very reliable. Parts are easy to get. Tempramental starting and No magic START BUTTON (not a big deal, but sure is nice if you're in a tight spot and you don't have the talent that I have with a kick starter. ) I grew to love the riding this bike, but I wouldn't go buy my own.

XR400 (father owned) - Not to big and not to heavy, but WAY underpowered. Air cooled. Not a high-strung high performance motor, so it's reliable. Not tons of parts out there if needed. No magic start button.

DRZ400 (father owned, I did on road track testing with it, and I have the quad version) - Not to big and not to heavy. Decent power. Water cooled. Not a high strung high reving motor and it's pretty loamy for riding on the street and dirt which makes it very reliable. Tons and tons of parts out there. Electric start with the option of kick start.

WR450 (owned) - Not to big and not to heavy. Great power and torque. High strung and high reving motor. A lot of high vibrations at high RPM when your just cruising down the road or down a fire road. This bike loves to be revved. Good reliability but high maintanence. Electric start and kick start. This is the same class as a CR-X but holds less oil capacity (more maintanence).

EXC525 (owned)- Just a step above the WR but a bigger price tag. Power is better, but not night and day. I was more impressed with the suspension and handling on this bike which is why I sold the WR and got it. A lot of high vibrations at high RPM when your just cruising down the road or down a fire road. Good reliability but high maintanence. This was my favorite 4 stroke dual sport bike. If I had no worries with money, I would have this bike again but in the 450 model (shorter stroke of the motor makes it feel lighter when riding it). Electric start and kick start.

The power that you get out of the 450's is awesome, but they are a high performance motocross based motor with a wide ratio tranny. This will be more important to an experienced expert rider. The 400 motor is more of a cruiser motor with the ability to still pack a little bit of a punch. Much better for a novice riders comfort level but still enough fun for an expert to beat on.

For the price that you can get a DRZ (apprx. $2500), I think it's the best all around bang for the buck. If you want something more aggressive that you are going to ride hard (not to much street or fire roads), find a WR (apprx. $3500+).

Wow! Thanks for all that. Good to hear some information re: What will suit me best. Friend of mine offered this up:



Does all that sound about right to any body?

Also found this local - any input of a target price? Look for a bone stock one or find some with upgrades - any "upgrades" to avoid?

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/mcy/1859309240.html

That looks like a good deal on a clean looking bike. I think that's the model you want to stick with. I don't think the E model comes from the dealership with the plate, so he has already gone through the hassle with the DMV. I think the pricing is right on, but I would try to offer $2500. I would try to stay away from anything that's had any motor work done. If you can find the little extras like exhaust, jetting, desert tank, and maybe a steering stabilizer, I think that would put you ahead of the game. But a bike that is all stock with low miles that is really clean, is worth more than a bike with the extras that looks to be ridden hard.

Alright, lets turn this into a Looking for thread -

1. DRZ 400
2. KTM 450 EXCr

Two guys looking. Both cash deals - no trades. Let me know if there is anything out there.

Yummi,
If you wanna try out a xr650r come on out to the west side and you can ride mine before buying anything.

Wow! That's a pretty cool offer.

From what I can learn, I am really thinking the 400 is for me. The KTM is for a friend of mine. We will end up with two 400's and two KTM 450's in our little group. Now the girl is making rumblings. She is game for lots of stuff and wants to join in. I am thinking a 230 for her.

Thanks again for the cool offer - I may just take you up on it.

The Huskys are very nice bikes IMHO...my last dual sport was a TE610.

Stock brakes and suspension are much better than the comparable Japanese bikes. (no mods req'd for most riders) The 610 also has a 6 speed transmission (compared to 5 speed of many of the other 650's) which is key in a thumper Dual Sport. (much less vibration at highway speed). I think the 450 had the 6 speed too, but you should check.

If you like to mod your bikes there aren't nearly as many products for the Huskies. Good thing they are pretty nice stock.

Great brand if you like to be different. I always had the only one wherever I went.....

So, running around CL and I tumble onto this KTM400. This would be instead of a DRZ. Any input? Or would I be better of with a newer Suzuki?

Rode mine down to a bike night last nite at the local Starbucks and whipped it in right in the middle of all the HDs and other customs and I had a crowd around mine and could barely break away to get a Frap. When I left I was boxed in and they asked if I needed them to move some bikes, I replied back, no need I will just jump off the curb.

what do you ride?

Im contemplating selling my 2005' Honda CRFX450. Very cool and rare bike IMO. Clean reg./title. registered through June 2011. Very low miles. My bikes are just collecting dust and wifey hates me riding them...so somethings gotta go...hmmmm....tough decision but if the right offer comes along i'd be willing to part....with the bike i guess.

Nice bike - I will likly go with a 400. The 450's are way nice, but from the sound of it, a 400 would be a better choice for me and my skill set.

Nothing wrong with the DR-Z's, but I'm kind of partial to the other one.

Lots of good choices out there. Good luck, ride safe, and fun!

Did you pull the trigger yet?

I hate shopping.

Not yet. Looked at a few. Pushed one back on the test ride. But, not yet. Kind of opening up to the 450s now. Some are popping up here and there at a good price point for me. Guess like most things when it is right it will be mine. Or, when i just get tired of looking....

Also still working on the 230.

Soon as I find one or the other, or heck, even pick up the KTM for the buddy, I will post it up.

So, part of this adventure is that the girl will be joining me.

She was raised "anti bike" - her dad was killed on a bike, and she also lost a cousin. Even on the quads she was a bit sketch at first. She caught on and did just fine. But, she was timid. Also timid on jet skis, etc. After a few trips she was an old pro. She lacks some initial confidence on motorized things, but quads and skis have helped and she knows if she listens she will be just fine. She is down with the concept of bikes. - mostly dirt, etc and she is looking forward to it. I was thinking low and under powered. (Thanks MtrSprtsDan for confirming what I thought I knew)

For example, we went and sat on a few bikes. The CRF230 L fits her well - seat height is 31.9" The CRF 230 is 34.1 (The "L" is the street legal 230 version) She also commented that the seat is cut different and that the "L" had a better feel in the crotch area. The TTR 225 is 34.2" My guess is with a link I can get about 2" lower. Part of me said - find a TTR 250 or KLX 250 etc. Then I would come back to reality.

A Yamaha XT 230 / 250 and the CRF230 L both start at 31.9" seat height. Of the two, the CRFL is a bit lighter and that would be good. They both would seem to be way under powered and less than stellar where it counts. Both get a premium used and are proving to be scare. But, it is more important that she have a good time and it is not important what I "think" she should be on. So, the goal was to keep her under powered; feet square on the ground, and let her have some fun. If she out grows it - then sell it and move on to a bigger bike.

Well, after the adventure of trying bikes on – kind of decided on a CRF230. To be legal here on some forest trails it needs to be “street legal.” That includes headlight and brake light, etc. The Baja Designs kit is $450 plus stator, so I was really looking for an “L.” The “L” first came out in 08 – so fairly new bike to find many used. After some searching found a 2006 CRF 230 with a stator rewind and a Baja Designs kit other than that it is bone stock. Some dingers, but she will drop it, etc so not too worried about it not being perfect.

Crazy little thing is really pretty peppy. I was kind of surprised by it and I don’t think she will outgrow it. Her feet will firmly touch the ground with boots on. Needless to say; it is mine now.

One of three is done.



Poop – I still hate shopping.

Nice Yummi. I think you got the right bike and you got a sweet deal. Great idea on getting her bike first.

Don't under estimate your self. Your skill set is going to move up quick with a good piece of equipment. If 1k is the difference between owning a honda or ktm over picking up a cheap drz, save your pennies. I have ridden the drz's, not enough power to get you out of trouble, stock suspension is horrible off road. Lots of smoking deals on bikes right now, shop around. You may be able to find one with a Scott's on the bars.
The Honda crf 230 is a great bike for a smaller person. My Wife rode one for years. Was Her first bike.

Not sure if you found a bike yet. Here is one to consider on C/L

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/mcy/1921569585.html

Still looking - been busy at work which is a good problem to have. So, looking is taking a back seat for the time being.

Click to view attachment

It doesn't get any better...

Looks like we have a bike for my buddy - He found a good deal on a 2008 Wr450. So, the KTM is off / out. The kicker is I get to get the bike from CA so when he makes it back to Phoenix he can enjoy it.

Down to one left to find for the original old fat guy who started looking for everybody else. I have found two so far. Please somebody just drop a nice DRZ in my lap.

How much did you pay for the WR ?

Here's something a little different.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/mcy/1931732929.html

That would be different. Scary on parts. I would do Husky before ATK.

$3,200.00



Also managed to finally landed on a bike for the old fat guy. 2003 WR450. Scotts steering stabilizer, BRP triple clamp, FMF gold valves in suspension, White Bros R4 exhaust, Devol radiator guards and skid plates, hand guards. Came with Fox v3 pilot helmet and Oakley goggles, extra plastics and seat cover.

I had been leaning towards a 400 DRZ, but am I glad I manged to find a 450. Thing pulls very hard in comparison to the 400s that I rode. Seemed like a good deal. $2,150. Some minor things to do for "street legal" but I got a $25.00 gift card from Rocky Mountain ATV via ASA - that helps.

Done looking for bikes. Started looking for DRX and KTM and CRF, ended up with two CRF and two WR450's.

Now we just need to go riding.......