The term "court" usually means you have a chance at a fair trial. In the case of traffic court, this couldn't be more wrong.

So, back in February of 2010, my wife and I were testing her new to her 2008 Xterra 4wd in Proctor Valley. Now, they've got signs along one side of the road saying "no offroading" and occasional signs on the other side. Thinking it was okay to head out on a trail head where signs weren't posted, we head in. Wrong. After about 20 minutes (all on the dirt road already there), we see a SDFD truck waiting for us at the trailhead waiving us over. After explaining what we were doing, he writes us a ticket for driving on a nature preserve (I love CA). Fine. We'll just pay the fine and move on with our lives.

So, late March comes around and we still didn't get a "courtesy notice", so my wife (it was her ticket) calls in to the East County division and the automated computer can't find her case number. Huh. She shows up on her court date (March 31st, 2010) and the officer didn't file the ticket. Woohoo! we think. The nice clerk gives us a piece of paperwork saying yes, we did appear, we fill out some more paperwork to amend the address on the ticket (it was incorrect, officer didn't write it correctly) and go on our merry way.

Fast forward to this last Tuesday and my wife's work gets a wage garnishment notice. Ruh-roh. WTF is this about? Turns out, the officer filed the ticket AFTER the court date, and since the address was incorrect (despite our change), they were mailing notices to an address that didn't exist, and my wife has a Failure to Appear (criminal!). Associated with this fun, the fine is maxed out, and a $300 civil assessment fine is added to it. Today, my wife went in to clear this up, sees the judge, and he does us a "favor" by reducing the fine to $400 (instead of $500) and reduces the civil assessment to $100. Now, we had already appeared, had paperwork proving we had appeared, but the judge would not dismiss it, and if we disagreed, we'd have to pay everything in full, fight it, and the court would refund our fines. Since we've got a kiddo due in literally weeks, we just paid the thing there and took it in the shorts rather than let the court hold nearly a thousand dollars for months, spend another 2-3 hours at the courthouse, and still have a chance we won't get our money back.

Man, I feel used, makes me feel I should report this to someone. I could've camped at Moab for a week for a few hundred more...

/rant

Sucks bro sorry to hear it

Godda love CA

You got a ticket on Proctor from a firetruck?????

To say the judicial system in Ca. is an outright joke would be putting it mildly, nothing but another form of taxation.

WOW...eff cali.

Man what an azzhat especially since you proved you did the right thing showing up to court when the cop never handled his end of his "duties" in the first place how can he still charge you with the civil?

And just think, it is all because of a law change in like 1969 making a traffic ticket an 'Infraction', inventing a whole new term not connected with misdemeanor or felony, and eliminated your right to a jury trial.

The mighty sword of justice in Cali only cuts in one direction.

John

Yeah. Apparently he was the FD's own tax collector, ahem, police unit. Coob, if you failed to file a ticket until after the court date, would you get in trouble?



Agree. It's an absolute joke how this has basically become a glorified tax-collection system.



Indeed.

Yep. That's the way the legal system crubmles. Hehe, I made a pun.



Not just California. Nearly every state has adopted this type of system. Sucks, don't it?

BTW, I'm going to blow a gasket if this shows up on our credit report...

They have up to a year to file....I found out the hard way too!

Delete this post!!!!
Stories like this make me soooooooo effin mad!!!
You had the paperwork to prove you were there.
EFF CA!!!!!!!


I got a speeding ticket in Jean NV last year for 80mph in a 55mph on a rural hwy. I called two months after I got the ticket and told them I was broke, they offered to reduce it to a parking ticket and charged me $90. Now that's how your ticket should have been handled. EFF CA!!!!!

You admit you didn't fight the failure to appear, settled for a reduced amount knowing you had proof that she was not guilty and your complaining. You failed to exercise your right to trial. I understand for someone that doesn’t deal with courts on a regular basis it can be a bit over whelming and intimidating but it is your right. There are options as to when a trial date would be set (having a baby is a pretty good excuse to continue a trial date) and what if any bail you have to post until the trial. I’m not trying to be a dick but unless you use your rights I don’t see how you can complain about taking it in the shorts. Now if you want to complain about the ridicules amount of money the courts are charging for traffic infractions you have every right.

Most importantly I wish you and your wife the best with the new addition to your family.

Yep, and I agree completely. I have fought "the man" on many things, and have definitely exercised my rights in the past. However, there are a couple of things at play here:

1. I was not with her. My wife had to go alone (I was watching our oldest kiddo). She waited in line, 9 months pregnant, for 2 hours to take care of this.
2. Coming back to fight a clerical error on the court's fault is ridiculous. I understand if you're talking about fighting the ticket, where a sworn officer said you did something, and you disagree, but you shouldn't have to show up to court because some paper pusher at the courthouse can't file paperwork properly. Like I said, we did our part, and he had the proof in front of him. He could've dismissed the whole thing right there, but didn't.
3. The clerk at the courthouse told my wife that all she had to do was show her paperwork to the judge, and it would be cleared up. Having to go to trial to fight the civil assessment fine caught her completely by surprise. She was given the options, she was warned that she'd be paying the FULL amount ($951) if found guilty, the bailiff then brusquely told her she "needed to make her decision now" when she didn't respond right away, and she caved.
4. Yes, she could have fought it, but, like I said, that would've meant holding $951 hostage for months that we honestly can't spare right now (childbirth is expensive as shit these days, and rich, we ain't). In short, they basically bullied her into paying now. You shouldn't be bullied into paying for the court's mistakes.
5. It's not worth $100 to have to come back. Today was a rare day where I could work from home, but that's not going to be available to me for months after the baby is born. The longer we delay, the longer they keep our $951 that we don't have.

In short, yep, she caved, but the court made an error, and we have to pay for it by either paying $100, or wasting hours of time we don't have to fight it. Either way, we lose. I see something wrong there, you?

I don't blame you. Before I heard the whole story, I was mad at her for caving as well. After hearing about it, though, it just made me mad the way she was treated, and since I couldn't find a complaint line for the courthouse, you guys got to hear it. Thanks!

I have never been a fan of traffic court. Always seemed to me to be the epitome of needed to prove your innocence as opposed to burdening the courts with proving you guilty. Then they always make it seem like they are doing you a favor for reducing the fine, when the fines are so high that even after they are reduced, the price is on the side of insane. Not only do I think that you should have fought it, but also possibly sued for misuse of government funds since they pay people with your tax dollars to do things like process your address request, pay that fireman's salary, pay other court member's salaries and they couldn't even properly process the address change. Finally, you have proof in hand that you had already appeared and they still continue to fine you. If there is one thing I cannot stand, it's government incompetence.

I'm not sure, I've never done that before.... seems pretty damn lame. Its really not that hard to write your notes about the cite and put it in the cite in-box at the end of shift.

Completely hypothetical situation...

Suppose he'd continued to fight. Also suppose his time is worth $30/hour to his employer, we can rightfully assume it's worth at least as much to him. It takes 2-3 hours to go down to court on the original court date and obtain all the proof of that. It then takes another few hours navigating phone trees, sitting on hold, getting hung up on when you reach the wrong person, etc. to figure out what the deal is with the garnishment. Probably another hour at least to put together the protest, plus you plunk down $800 or so as a deposit in case you lose. A few more hours are going to be dedicated to going back to court.

In all, not counting travel time, gas expense, and time spent stripping down and re-dressing to get through the metal detectors at the EC courthouse, I'm thinking this ordeal wastes a minimum of 15 hours, or $450 for someone whose time is worth $30. For all I know, Rockwood's time could be worth twice that. If he wins, does he get reimbursed for all the time it cost him to win, or does he end up losing if he fights just as he loses if he doesn't?

I know I've had a couple chicken$#!t fines I've walked away from over the years because it would've cost me more in time missed at work to fight than it cost to just bend over and pay the government, like the time I caught a meter maid ticketing my car at 6:50 for street sweeping when it didn't have to be moved until 7...

I have a question for Coobie or anyone else in the know. Is there a statute of limitations on how long they have to collect money from you?

Last July I received a letter saying I owed the County of Imperial money from a traffic violation that occurred in 2002, almost 9 years later they are trying to collect money I "Owe" them. I have called several times questioning the situation, and they pretty much don't know anything. I have mentioned to them that all fines and fees were paid when I had gone with my parents, to then a Juvenal court, and everything had been settled.

I had a similar experience in a traffic court. I got a ticket in 2002 for speeding. I paid the fine by check and received the cashed check back in the mail. About 6 month later I moved. In 2004 I was changing insurance companies and was told they could not insure me due to my suspended license. SAY WHAT? After a bit of research it was for failure to appear on my traffic ticket. Seems I had been driving on a suspended license for at least a year. Awesome.

I went to court with the canceled check and a copy of the ticket. Luckily I had saved that stuff. The judge heard my side of the story and said if I paid $450 he would remove the suspension from my record. I told him I paid the ticket and here is the proof. He told my that was option 1, and I wouldn't like option 2. So of course I folded and payed up. If that happened to me now - I would have told him to bring it on! I was in my early twenties and didn't really understand that I should stand up for my rights and what is right. I won't make that mistake again if I'm in the same situation.

Yep. You can thank the lack of jury trials for that. There's no DA for this either.



Word. My driving habits from 17-22 or so were certainly not appreciated by law enforcement, and I never had a single one fail to turn in a ticket they wrote me.



Yep. I think you typed this before I posted, but combine that with the fact that we won't have time due to new baby, the judge and bailiff pressured her into making a decision now, and the fact that her employer will make her use sick/PTO to take care of this makes it even worse.

BTW, my wife also fed our son, ahem, personally, and plans to do the same with our new daughter as well. Since infants generally need feeding every couple of hours, that means it's take baby to court day, and there's nothing I'd love more than to expose her to the kind of people who show up to court on a regular basis. Fun!

Of course, there is one thing I forgot about: trial by written declaration. They didn't tell her she had that option, and it's been so long since I've been written a ticket (let alone fought one), that I completely forgot about it until now.

Click to view attachment



I'm pretty sure that statue of limitations is 1 year on non-felony offenses, but I'm no attorney.

Here's the problem I see: judges should be there to protect your rights, not threaten you. What would've been fun is if you'd been pulled over: your car would've been impounded at your cost, then you would've had to seek repayment from the court. Good luck with that!

I had a very similar thing happen to my wife, paid ticket, 5 years later gets a call on her cell phone that there is a warrant issued. HUH? same Bs.

I was in court this morning with my son, who was arrested for trespassing and disorderly conduct at a bar. His buddy was drunk and he was trying to get him out of the bar, the bouncer shoved my son, my son called the cops, (he was not drinking), the cops showed up aressted both my son and his friend, bouncer was not cited for anything. we have been to court twice, and had to plead quilty to accept a "diversion" program. That was our attorneys advice, either that, or pay him 3k to defend. Eff the cops, Eff the courts, this kind of crap happens everyday, and it's BS.

ETA: The cops solicited a bribe from my sons friend, that, "for the right price, this could all go away..", nice. His friend is in the military, and the JAG is going to town on these idiots. I hope he nails them good. There was a little "police brutality" going on as well. Destruction of government property comes to mind... ???

What pisses me off to no end is having to pay a $10 filing charge even if your found NOT GUILTY!! LOL friggen organized crime is what it is...

Wow, I'm in the military as well (Air Force) and it seems the opposite to me. In the Air Force as soon as they hear you have had an "incident" with law enforcement, especially with alcohol involved, you are automatically punished. This is done within weeks of the actual incident, many people don't even have a court date yet to prove their innocence. And if you do prove your innocence, you've already been punished by the Air Force. I'm glad that your son's friend has the legal department on his side for this one though. There must be an abundance of corruption involved.

Yeah, I know the military doesn't usually put up with any nonsense, my other son is in the Navy. The cops smashed this guys face into the cement pretty good. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Last time for me in traffic court , I had to wait for all the non English speakers to go to the front of the line . All of them were for no drivers license . The first 5 1st time $5,000 all let off , next 2 nd timers $10,000 warrent all let off . Finally 2 3rd timers $15,000 let off . I'm thinking this judge is goingto take me to lunch for my little speeding ticket --nope nailed me on it . This was in Victorville court .

Of course, the judge knows you have the money to pay the fine. Illegal immigrants on the other hand tend to not have large bank accounts.

I with you that it is B.S. that the court makes the mistake and you have to deal with it or in this case your wife. Had you gone with her you would not be allowed to help her at all unless you’re a licensed attorney. I understand that a person’s time is worth something and taking time off from work brings in the, is it worth it to fight it factor. I have a personal dislike for our legal system and the judges and lawyers that profit from it. So I would fight it no matter the cost, but that’s my mindset. Like I said earlier, it can be very over whelming for a person that has little to no experience with the courts, so I can understand why it went down the way it did. I just hate to see people give into the system when the system was wrong.

On a Failure to appear I don’t believe you can do a trial by declaration as the proceeding is between the court and the accused. The court acts as the prosecution and the witness for the prosecution. Doesn’t seem right but that’s what happens.

Another fun fact, the city or county that the ticket was issued in, only gets a small percentage of the BASE fine, the court keeps the rest including all of the civil assessment. In other words the city that pays for the police officer to issue the ticket does not get enough money to cover the cost of the officer, let alone the civilian positions to process it.

Within my dept. would mean a policy violation and writeup on the officer, no citation at time of trial would mean automatic dismissal. Rockwood, at the very least take the time to file a written appeal and definately explain that you showed, that there was not a citation, no Officer, no docket and that as you were told that if you contested it you would have to pay the full amount...basically means extortion/coercion, or at least that's my take on what you wrote. before doing any of this I would contact the court clerk and ask what to do in this case.
good luck
Tim

Not sure how you guys do it Tim, but out here in CA it's pretty much standard practice that if you want to fight you pay the full fine plus some extra fees before they'll let you - then if you win you get your money (or some of it) back. Kinda bull, but that's the rule...

You can fill out an Own Recognizance Release Form in lieu of posting bail (which is what they call the total amount of the fine) in most traffic cases in CA.

Thanks, I'll definitely look into a written appeal.

SandPsycho: thanks man! Your posts have been MORE than informative.

Could you have refused the ticket? Technically not an officer of the law IMO.

Well, to close out my report on this situation, we found out a month or two later that the court had also sent my wife to collections for the year she was "delinquent" on this in addition to all of the other fun. Fought the blip on her credit report with Transunion and Experian (luckily, no hit on Equifax) and had everything resolved a month later. Luckily, you can still use stuff like "logic" with corporations.

Needless to say, I am not happy with our local "justice" system.

good you got it worked out and I hear ya the system is in need of a serious tune up!!