I found a company that does Solar panels and because of the market tanking, they have a lease program called a PPA. It starts out at .16 a KwH and you save about 25% off your bill. Its a 20 year lease and they have a built in 4% rate increase each year. Considering SCE has a rate increase of 15% in the next year, thats probably not bad.

Does anybody have Solar panels or a PPA to lease the panels?

Looking for some feedback before I sign on the dotted line.....

Happyw/vforce on this board has them on his home and he will tell you the straight skinny. As far as as know, he loves em.

John

Whats the name of the company your dealing with ???

I don't think I would do a lease, particularly for 20 years. You never own the equiptment yet you will have paid for it a couple of times over 20 years. what happens if a panel gets damaged (hail, storm, wind, baseball etc) are you obligated ti fix it or are they?

I think it would be better to own and pay for it as quickly as possible so you get a faster pay back.

what happens if you want to sell your house and the new buyers don't want to assume the lease?

The cost of getting them seem to outway the reduced electric bill.

The company is Solar Service Center.

All good points on the lease, thats why I have not done it yet. You dont own them, but his point is, in 20 years they are not going to come back for them. Who knows if they would or not. The lease is kind of like a finance as far as what you pay overall. Its more of a tiered payment with most of it being on the back end.

The panels themselves if I bought them cash would cost about 50K. They would generate about 1185 KwH a month. Its 40 panels.

check into your rebates from local state fed and even PG&E before you know the total cost.

They are not in business to save you money, keep that in mind. But also know the last I checked is was like 13 years to come even on the cost of the panels, with a life expectancy of 15 years.

John

That's what I found out too.

I had a couple estimates 3 or 4 year ago in the $80k (before tax breaks) range.


Still, it was going to take something like 12 years to break even. Sorry but that is not much motivation.

How much would your payment be per month for that system ?? I have condidered it, but givin that I use monthly double the KW hours you stated , and more during the summer, I would need 1 giant system.. My Edison bill averages $550 a month.

Its all Gray Davis fault. He screwed us in 2003 when he allowed Edison to go on those Tiered plans based on usage. A couple blocks away, those on Riverside power pay about 1/2 for the same amount of Kilowatts.

Yes he did....But Jerry Brown will fix it...................Sorry, thats a whole other topic............

Its $185 a month at 1185 KwH. However, it increases by 4% a year for 20 years. They based it on 85% of your yearly average. My low is 900 KwH and my high is 1600 KwH. Now if I generate 1185, anything over that I pay Edison, anything under I get a credit. Your SCE bill then goes to yearly. Now it sounds good for the first couple of years, but when you start adding up the 4%, it gets real pricey in the next 5+ years. If you check your Edison bill you will see that they just applied for a 15% rate increase. So, its kind of hard to determine where we will be with Edison in the next 5+ years as well.

As far as my bill, my lowest is $250 and the high is $400, with most of the time being $300-$350. On the high months, I would be paying Edison and the PPA payment, which is also an Unknown based on how far up Edisons tier I go...................

We do installs for a couple of companys not the one you mentioned though that do the lease program and we are busy..............

They seem to sell on the fact that Sun energy will not go up in 20 years but the Power Co will be asking for increases every chance they get. All your doing is comiting to a discount for X # of KW's for a fixed price over the next 20 years....

Right now I cannot afford it even with the free install but if I could but my house isn't big enough to offset the cost of some of the big price items not the panels but the inverter.

One thing to add, each year the panels will produce .5%-3% less energy.
This number can vary with the brand, type and environment.
Some manufactures guarantee 90% output after 10-15 years, but with lots of fine print.
After 20 years output could be 1/2 of the new installation.

I am in the process of making the appt to talk about all of this with a friend of a friend. My understanding is they take your average for the year by month, and put that many panels on the roof to cover that average. There is a cost that you pay monthly to the Solar company (I think between $150 and $200 a month). I live in an all electric community, my bill ranges from $350-$700 a month, I also have about 1800 sq ft of roof that is directed at the sun all day long. I figure if I can pay $175 a month, instead of the bill I have now, it is a win win situation. And it is helping the environment. I could care less if I actually own it after 20 years, the technology will be 100 times better and probably cheaper. I just wouldn't want them to remove it from the roof at this time.

I don't know the drawbacks yet, but will post when I find out.

I find it very difficult to believe you could get a system that would generate that much kwh for $175 a month

we do PPAs for large commercial and govt buildings, 6.5 acres at 29 Palms MC base. YOu wont own them so you wont get the rebates or tax breaks, they get a 20 warranty from the parts maker but any damage you pay for. They are junk in 20 years, make sure your roof is almost new because you will have to remove and reinstall to re-roof and it will probably void your roof warranty.

I dont see the pay back for low usage residents. If you have room for 6.5 acres it will save you $6.9 million dollars in peak rate saving though.

I just signed up with solar city. I did the upfront lease program. I got a huge 7.5k system for 10,800 installed. they cover everything for the 20 years. after the 20 years you can just keep the system. invertors only last about 12 to 15 years so they know they will be replacing the invertor at least once. covers damage by baseballs, hail and monthy monitoring. Lease is the total way to go but you need to do the buy out up front, the monthy lease lsn't the most return on your money. After the upfront cost there is no other fees. sysem pays for itself in 5 years. Save me over 50k if rates stay the same and increase 6% a year. if rates go up higher then I save even more money. Great return on my money and I went green. My bro is getting his installed next week buy solar city as well. he went with a 5.5k system.

They have a performance garantee for your panels so you will have the power you lease for the 20 years if not they replace the panels at there cost. Solar city really has it down. I sell solar and couldn't do it for the same price. Also them taking care of everything sold me on it.

Squater, how much was your bill averaging?

Mine runs $500 - $700 an am wondering if the 7.5kwh would be big enough.

WOW! thats incredible that they could deterioate that much!!

Something here does not make sense. Are you saying you bought down the lease with the $10,800, if so then you still have a monthly payment? And did they specifiy that at the end of the 20 you own them or you just assume you do?

I checked out going solar, even with rebates and phantom numbers assuming energy cost increases, ROI was about 20 years and in 20 years they are junk. Didn't make sense for me.

my 7.5 won't make my bill zero. I use 11,500kw a year it should save me over 150 per month or more here in the summer months. NO there is no more monthly payment at all. There is language in the contract if I don't contact them or they don't contact me 90 days after the lease is up I get to keep the system. They don't want the system back. it is 20years old and then they have to pay the labor to remove and fix the roof so they dont' want it back. Panels are guaranteed 80% output for the whole lease. If you guys haven't call solar city give them a call and have them come over. totally worth a shot. Please let them know that Paul Angerami referred you. I get a kick back if you have the panels installed.


The co founder of Paypal owns solar city along with Tesla motors and space X. They get to keep all the power rebates and tax credits. they also get to depreciate the whole system over so many years. it is a total tax savings for solar city that is how they can do what they do.

not true at all. we sell panels and there life span is much better than that. most panels have a 20 to 25 year warranty

All depend on how much your power company charges you per KW on peak. mine plan I pay 17.8 cents

paul, if you're willing to pay that much up front, why not just buy your system, you own it and you get the tax credits?

I stated the output COULD be 1/2 the output after 20 years. The quality panels should do quite a bit better. Sharp photovoltaic's
are rated for 80% at 25 years. The guys that make the cheep panels won't be around in ten years anyway. I just mentioned life span
as it is a important part of the contract.

Wow! So much different information, who do you believe?

I will share my experience with you. I installed a 4,860 watt Solar System at the end of 2009. the cost of Solar Panels has dropped considerably in the last year. Here are some things to consider. The size of the system you install is based on 3 things:

1) The amount of kilowatts that you are currently using each year.
2) The size of your main breaker on your Service Panel.
3) The size of the area that is South facing that you have access to in order to clean and maintain your panels.

The breaker for your Inverter can not be sized any larger than 20% of your main breaker on your Service Panel, so you are limited on how large of an Inverter you can use, based on your main breaker, and you want your system to be large enough that you will see a drop in your utility bill. The majority of the well known Solar Panels on the market are warrantied for 25 years and the Inverters for around 10 years. My System cost me just under $24,000 to install. But the rebates that I received from the State and the Feds brought the cost down to just over $12,500 out of pocket.

My Solar System makes money everyday and will continue to do so as long as it's Sunny outside. The cost of Electricity is going to continue to go up at a rate of approximately 5% year. That means that in 10 years you'll be paying 50% more the the same power you use today. The Solar Panels will not power your home if the your Electricity is turned off unless you have a Huge bank of Batteries and a Transfer Switch. The Inverters are designed to kill the DC power from your Solar Panels so you cant back feed into the Power Grid during an outage and electrocute a Line man working on the Power lines.

Installing a Solar System is not for everyone, but I really enjoy watching my Meter spin backwards all day. I also enjoy not having to pay a Electrical bill every month. I still get a statement each month showing me what Electricity that I've used or my credit for the month. So far, for the entire year, my running total was $392. And I saved about $2,500 for the year. That means that the entire system will be payed off in, or around 5 years. After 5 years, it's money in the bank. If I decided to sell my home before it was payed off the buyer wouldn't get the benefit of the rebates that I did and the system would increase the price of my home enough to pay for itself. If I decide to sell my home after it has payed for itself, it will increase the overall value of my home then!

I think it's a no brainer...

Just my .02 cents


Here are some Pics-

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Solar is a great investment. In most cases depending on your sales price the ROI is 5 to 6 years then it is all money in the bank. I have a 9.2 system on my house and I love it. Regarding the 20% backfeed in Az you can put a Solar PV panel in which has bussing rated up to 600 amps so back feeeding is not a problem. My only advice is to stay away from Solar City. The promise many things and most the time cant deliver. I get most my work from empty promises from solar city. They can sell systems all day long with their campaign but at the end of the day they cant keep up with paperwork much less installs. Most customers are waiting over a year to get their system installed by that time rebates drop from the power company and Solar City sends an email requesting more money. It may not happen to all their customers but it happens. At the end of the day we are talking 3 - 5k difference between owning and leasing depending on size and rebates from power company. Anyways there is nothing better than getting a bill for 0.00

So how big a system would i need If I average 2200 KW usage a month ??

Ive been looking into the do it yourself kits and you can choose what brands you want. It looks like a huge savings to do all the grunt work and hire an electrical contractor to do the final hook up.

I would say a 15kw system that would produce around 25,000 kwh depending on many factors. The trick is you dont want to over produce it doesnt pay. Consider it like doing your taxes you want to break even. Also a 15k system can cost a chunk of money out of pocket depending on your local rebates from the power company.

Just got our statement for our 1st year of solar . We have a small house 1100 ' pool & spa , our bill for the year was just over $2,000 year before solar. Solar cost was $25,000 sce paid $5,000 took off our taxes another $5,000 or so . Our bill broke down to be $ 58. per month .We could add more panels but don't think it's worth it at this time . We plan on selling in 6 years , so the panels will be in good shape .

My electric bill runs about $120 per month - guess it won't add up for us.

I see some of these high electric bills you guys post, makes me glad I don't have air conditioning.

Yes you can save some $$ by doing the grunt work yourself. Just remember that most citys want you to pull a permit to do the install and they want to see a engineers stamp saying that the roof will hold the wieght and that will cost you.

As far a Solar City being a pain, We do not deal with them but I kow the company we do deal with simular to Solar City is also a pain for us they have lots of things that need to be lined up and most of the time it's the bank, city or the utility provider that is the hold up getting things from design to install.

I just signed on the dotted line today. Here is the program I went for:

Sunrun Total Solar

Yearly I use 23,176 KWhs, I have enough space on roof to have to produce 8,000KWhs (very conservative).

My goal is to keep my bill out of the Teir 3, 4, 5 pricing (which will have the biggest increases in cost in the future). With that said, if I keep my usage from SCE in the Teir 1 and 2, my bill will be in that $75-$120 range.

Sunrun will charge me $160 a month for 20 years, they get the rebates. But they cover all issues with the system over that 20 years, including when the inverter goes out, breakage of panels and so forth.

Installation free, and no upfront costs. The only cost I have is the $160 a month. The system after rebates would cost me about $22,000.

So here is how I am looking at this:

SCE Bill $120 a month
Sunrun $160 a month

total at the most will be $280 a month.

My average bill is about $400 right now.

As of right now, I will save $120 a month, the savings will even get better each and every year. Electricity costs are going up fast, but will go up more with people that have usage in those Teirs above 1 and 2 (these teirs are heavy regulated).

After 20 years I own it free and clear.

I ask about the life expectancy of the panels, they say 90% effective after 20 years.

Anyone want a referral??

If you took your own loan out which is very easy. You could pay this solar system off in just under 12 years at 160 a month. Your paying an extra 8 years which works out to be over 15k above and beyond 22k. These lease companies make it seem real attractive on the front end but it makes no sense when you can own the panels in 12 years and be paid off with the bank. Then it is all money in the bank from year 12 on. It doesnt matter to me at all how you spend your money but to be tied down for 20 years on a solar system seems crazy to me. Check out GE finance they offer a loan specifically for renewable energy.

I meant say "with all due respect" prior to my reply.

I also wouldnt refer anyone until the system is installed and you are happy. Too many fly by night companies out there these days

The 20 Year PPA's start out at the $160 (based on Kwh Agreement, Varies) a month and increase about 4% a year. They lock you in at a low Kwh rate for the first year and it increases every year from their, exceeding the rate of inflation.

Unless, you are financing it??? You did not specify........

I am thinking to build a structure on the side of the south side house like a patio cover that would act as a semi carport. Would not want it on the roof.

Here is a link that has a lot of information.

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/

This is not a lease, I own it after 20 years outright...................

This includes all monitoring and maintenience: Invertor will have to be replaced maybe twice in that time.

No installation cost

You can call it financing if you like, I see it as I am saving hundreds of dollars a month with zero out of pocket. I do know someone that has already has the system, they are getting about 25% more output than they promised. Thus they are saving more money. I would rather pay the solar comapny than SCE. Look at the bottom of your most recent bill, they say they are raising rates to cover pension plans, among other things.

In the end I am doing what is right for the environment, my pocket book, and the value of my house. I didn't want to take out another loan, so that would not be an option.

One other thing to consider, SCE is going to start charging a lot more for electricity during daytime than nightime soon, they are in the process of changing everyones meters so they can. We have a home office, thus A/C and electricity is being used all day long. Electricity rates are going to climb quickly in the near future, Obama has promised it. I need to stay out of the higher tiers in my bill, and this will do so, so in 20 years, I could actually be saving $400-$500 a month.

You are tied to this system for 20 years. You have essentially taken out a loan for 20 years. You coulda taken a loan out for 12 years and owned the system at the end and put 15k in your pocket plus all the electricity you will be producing. The way I see it you can buy alot of inverters for the extra 15k you are spending over 20 years. You could monitor the system yourself for free online. Imo your throwing 15k away.