Full Version: Honda not running!
My Honda crapped out this last weekend. I can bump start it....but it won't kick over for anything, and sometimes it backfires when I kick it . When I come to a stop the bike just dies and then I need to get pulled again. Anyone have an idea what is wrong or anyone know someone in San diego who will do a diagnostic on it.
Hey Scott, Since I just met you ( Taco Tues )
how about some background on the bike.....
What year, model, engine, any new modifications... what does the spark plug look like? It being a HONDA it is highly unusual for it to not start on the first kick..... Check all connectors to start with, make sure you are getting a crisp blue spark at the plug.
how about some background on the bike.....
What year, model, engine, any new modifications... what does the spark plug look like? It being a HONDA it is highly unusual for it to not start on the first kick..... Check all connectors to start with, make sure you are getting a crisp blue spark at the plug.
It's a 1986 Honda fourtrax, stock except for fmf pipes and silencer and uni filter. The spark plug is great, cocoa. It is jetted at 155.....I can get pulled and it has trouble getting started but when it does it runs great!
I still think its filling up with gas. Turn the fuel off and start kicking.. If it cranks up after all teh fuel is out of it, then BINGO!.. James messed it up!! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Disturbed]](graemlins/disturbed.gif)
![[Ninja]](graemlins/ninja.gif)
quote:But when I start to slow down in 1st the bike just dies. Member at the drags on saturday....I was in 3rd, pretty reved and the bike felt like it almost ran out of gas....just was almost dead.
Originally posted by Chummin:
I still think its filling up with gas. Turn the fuel off and start kicking.. If it cranks up after all teh fuel is out of it, then BINGO!.. James messed it up!!
![[BigCry]](graemlins/bigcry.gif)
mabey float is bent to much then. book says exactly how to do it and where it should be.
good spark??
good spark??
What about the reeds? Sounds like it's running REALLY rich on the bottom end. Maybe you broke one off.
sell it and buy a yamaha, or zuki
I think you have a broken or bent reed. If only a little piece is broken off it will bump start and run at a high RPM but not idle.
My TRX was doing something similar. I would have to bump start it often. Come to find out the Stator was going out and it finaly went kaput. Replaced the stator and runs like a champ. If you are running your original stator, then it might be going out. I own (4) trx250r and (3) of them went out in one year. Craig at Cal-ATV says they are going out in bundles now. Might just be something to check.
Could it be the coil?
I think I will look at the reed this weekend....hopefully nothing big!
I think I will look at the reed this weekend....hopefully nothing big!
scott... where the hell have you been?!?!? I left you a message the other day... anyhow, I'll give you a call later on......
oh yeah, about your bike... I know what's wrong with it...
IT'S A
HONDA![[Smile]](smile.gif)
hope you get it figured out soon...
oh yeah, about your bike... I know what's wrong with it...
IT'S A
HONDA
hope you get it figured out soon...
Sorry just been really busy!
Posted by Esco:
![[Cheese]](graemlins/cheese.gif)
quote:Now these are the kind words of a man looking out for his fellow duners!
sell it and buy a yamaha, or zuki
Hey Scott, more than likely if it is electrical, the first thing to go on those 250R's is the CDI and the pickup on the stator, take it to your local honda shop and have them test both of them, a test light will work on the CDI but you need to put a meter on the stator pickup to test it properly and Honda has all the specs. This should only take a few minutes. The reeds may be a possibility aswell. Pull your carb off and then pull the rubber boot and reed cage off. If you can see a through the reeds, at the bottom where they open, it's time to replace them, Boyesen makes a good set of reeds for your 250R and thier not expensive, $30 the last time I bought them. The CDI will run you anywhere from $102 to $138 depending on your connections. Oh and while it's in the shop, have them do a compression test just for the hell of it. 155 jet sounds kinda lean to me but that's cause I had minor porting, and a milled and re-domed head(done by Lindon from Bill's pipes) My jet of choice was a 186, and I ran 110 race gas, bike hauled ass. As Chummin pointed out, the Float level could be a possibility aswell, while your carb is off take the bowl off of it and clean her out, you may just have a piece of varnish or sand or even gasket sticking the float open. A loose main jet will cause extra fuel to seep through also. Just a few thoughts, I'm up here in riverside, but shoot me an e-mail if you need any help. Keep us posted man.
Oh and get crackin cause you only got 8 more days until New years.![[Beer]](graemlins/beer.gif)
good luck
I will say That I've ridden the Raptor, the 400ex and the new Z400, and this year, Suzuki definetly has a leg up on the competition.
My 2 cents
[ 12-19-2002, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: THROTTLEJUNKIE ]
Oh and get crackin cause you only got 8 more days until New years.
good luckquote:Remember guys, this bike is 16 years old, Yamaha didn't have a quad to compete back then and the Suzuki's of that year, couldn't compete if they wanted to.
sell it buy a Yamaha ora a suzuki
I will say That I've ridden the Raptor, the 400ex and the new Z400, and this year, Suzuki definetly has a leg up on the competition.
My 2 cents
[ 12-19-2002, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: THROTTLEJUNKIE ]
I toke the reed valve out and the middle two are maybe an 1/8 open.....the outside two are closed.....is this it? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
I would go with the Boyesen reeds. However I think you may need to get a new reed cage to run the boyesen's, if this is to much $$$$ for you just go OEM, They'll work fine.
[ 12-19-2002, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: THROTTLEJUNKIE ]
[ 12-19-2002, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: THROTTLEJUNKIE ]
Its probably 1/16 of an inch open.....is this the reason it's not kickstarting......or is it something else?
Scott when was the last time you cleaned you airfilter? The first gathering I went to this guy "Al" had the same problem and when we looked at the airfilter it was clogged. After he cleaned it, it ran great. He had a UNI also... Just something to look at...
Just cleaned it before the trip......even Kennie said the thing looked brand new.
Does this sound like it still could be the stator?
Does this sound like it still could be the stator?
When you were playing with the jetting did you make sure the main jet was tight. It may have dislodged itself.
Scott, if/when you decide to get new reeds, go with the V-Force or those ones that Blue Streak recommended(PSI I think)if they make them for 4-trax. Much better than the Boysen's.
quote:Its tight!
Originally posted by Mr.DUNE:
When you were playing with the jetting did you make sure the main jet was tight. It may have dislodged itself.
quote:LOL I did the same thing with Michelle's bike last trip.
Originally posted by Mr.DUNE:
Scott when was the last time you cleaned you airfilter? The first gathering I went to this guy "Al" had the same problem and when we looked at the airfilter it was clogged. After he cleaned it, it ran great. He had a UNI also... Just something to look at...
Hey Scott, the reed should be closed all the way when sitting there. And you can buy boysen reeds to replace the stock ones that will fit the stock cage. The "pickup" for the electrical is called the .... darn it, brain fart. Anyway, the pick up is what tells the CDI to fire. There should be a very tiny gap between that and the metal part (that little strip) on the flywheel. Do you have a clymer's manual? If so, do the tests it says to do. How is it running when it's full throttle?
BamBam....at full throttle it is great!
just drive it at full throttle then ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
scott my boy your stator is going bad same thing happened to me on my tecate
OK this might be a dumb question but did you turn off the chock. I'm just trying to give you options that no one else has come up with and that are commonly over looked. Like for getting that you stuffed a rag in your tail pipe the last time you washed your bike or blocking off your air intake when cleaning your airfilter. You know the little sheit that messes with ya.
quote:Im not that dumb!
Originally posted by Mr.DUNE:
OK this might be a dumb question but did you turn off the chock. I'm just trying to give you options that no one else has come up with and that are commonly over looked. Like for getting that you stuffed a rag in your tail pipe the last time you washed your bike or blocking off your air intake when cleaning your airfilter. You know the little sheit that messes with ya.
Scott if you have that much gap in your reeds the need to be replaced. If they can not close on the compression stroke you can not kick start the bike. The reeds when new close completly. I have always ran the stock reeds.
quote:Yep, and they are open too far when you are just idling.
Originally posted by Oldman:
Scott if you have that much gap in your reeds the need to be replaced. If they can not close on the compression stroke you can not kick start the bike. The reeds when new close completly. I have always ran the stock reeds.
So I bought the Boyesen reeds and installed them! So It still wont start.....Im getting spark and it is still backfiring. I can't figure it out. I think I am going to take it in after the first.
At least take off the side cover and check the stator. You could have sheered the woodruff key and it is stuck in an advanced position. You would still get spark but timing will be off. 
SAME THING HAPPENED TO ME ON THANKSGIVING, EXCEPT MY BIKE JUST DIED AND WOULDN'T START.....AND GUESS WHAT, IT WAS THE COIL
[ 12-27-2002, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: STARGIRLS46 ]
[ 12-27-2002, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: STARGIRLS46 ]
I think Its something simple and I should have it fixed soon.
give ya $500 for it right now cashola??
quote:
Originally posted by scottcalvin:
I think Its something simple and I should have it fixed soon.
Hang in there with that great quad. When you find the other problem and ride the bike you should notice better peformance and idle with the new reeds. Another question is the bike back firing through the carb or the exhaust?
quote:Through the exhaust.
Originally posted by Oldman:
Hang in there with that great quad. When you find the other problem and ride the bike you should notice better peformance and idle with the new reeds. Another question is the bike back firing through the carb or the exhaust?
quote:
Originally posted by Esco:
give ya $500 for it right now cashola??
quote:
Originally posted by scottcalvin:
I think Its something simple and I should have it fixed soon.
Scott I talked to my back up man today and here are 3 things you need to check. 1st check the compression,if you can push it through by hand you might need a top end, but a compression gage would be the best way to check,(120/140 PSI) is good. When you compression check hold the throttle wide open. If you have the gage hold the throttle open and kick at least 5 times,the first kick should give you about 100 PSI, the rest should bring it to its max. If you have good compression then you could have a base gasket or crank seals leaking and leaning out the fuel mixture. Check the stator side for oil if there
is more than a teaspoon full you probably have a bad seal. The other seal will show up when the bike is running and you get a funny idle down when you stop. He said the back fire through the exhaust is usualy a lean mixture. He also said the new reeds were a good investment. If all of the above things check out ok then you need to find out why the lean mixture. Clogged idle jet etc.
[ 12-29-2002, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Oldman ]
is more than a teaspoon full you probably have a bad seal. The other seal will show up when the bike is running and you get a funny idle down when you stop. He said the back fire through the exhaust is usualy a lean mixture. He also said the new reeds were a good investment. If all of the above things check out ok then you need to find out why the lean mixture. Clogged idle jet etc.
[ 12-29-2002, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Oldman ]
quote:Checked my compression, kicked five times.......55.....
Originally posted by Oldman:
Scott I talked to my back up man today and here are 3 things you need to check. 1st check the compression,if you can push it through by hand you might need a top end, but a compression gage would be the best way to check,(120/140 PSI) is good. When you compression check hold the throttle wide open. If you have the gage hold the throttle open and kick at least 5 times,the first kick should give you about 100 PSI, the rest should bring it to its max. If you have good compression then you could have a base gasket or crank seals leaking and leaning out the fuel mixture. Check the stator side for oil if there
is more than a teaspoon full you probably have a bad seal. The other seal will show up when the bike is running and you get a funny idle down when you stop. He said the back fire through the exhaust is usualy a lean mixture. He also said the new reeds were a good investment. If all of the above things check out ok then you need to find out why the lean mixture. Clogged idle jet etc.
What is a top end going to cost if I do it myself. How much if a shop does it.
To do it yourself is like 42 bucks for the gasket kit and 90 bucks for the piston. To get the cylinder honed shouldn't be more then 40 bucks depending on where you go.
Scott if you need to bore the cylinder be sure to get the piston first and give it to the machine shop. If you have to bore make sure they chamfer and relive the exhaust port bridge. I used a Wisco piston with the relief hole all ready drilled in the front like Honda recomends. Check your studs and your cylinder locators that are around 2 of the base studs. If your cylinder does not slide on eaisly find out why. Check this before you put on the piston and the base gasket.You should not have to tap the cylinder on the studs. Be clean with your work and everything will work out OK.
That is my problem? Everything should be okay after that......and its pretty easy to do right? I need to get the cylinder honed?
Sounds like you need to get it bored. Slightly different than honed. Boring makes it oversize(you've heard the term "30 over" when people talk about car engines and such I'm sure), honing is simply the final finish on the cylinder after it has been bored. You will know how big to go after you get it apart(to be able to tell wether or not it has been bored b4 and also how deep the scratches are, if any). Then a competent builder should be able to tell you how big you will need to go to clean it up(or you can yourself if you're handy with an inside micrometer). From there you can order the piston and send it all off to the shop to be bored to the correct size for the piston. Hope this makes some sense.
Man, just take your cylinder to someone like Trinity or CT Racing. Tell them you have no compression. You might just have wore out rings. Tell them you want to keep it as inexpensive as possible. They should be able to tell you if you need a bore or just a re-hone. They should also give you the right piston and the rings and gaskets.
I've heard of a guy that bored out his cylinder without honing it,He put the top end back together,rode the bike for about 2 minutes and the motor seized up.
quote:But if you take it to a reputable shop, they'll hone it for you or at least ask you about it. At most shops, the hone is included in the bore charge.....they automatically do it.
Originally posted by Li'l Eddie:
I've heard of a guy that bored out his cylinder without honing it,He put the top end back together,rode the bike for about 2 minutes and the motor seized up.
Yes, Bam Bam,that's true.From what I remember of the story,some years ago, the dude took his cylinder to his buddies dads machine shop to save some $ and asked to bore it out,and that's what the chinist did;"bored it out" to fit the piston by .002 inches.
Seems like an awful close fit to me.With 2-stroke engines,I'd think it would be more like .005 in.But then what do I know,I'm not a mechanic.
Seems like an awful close fit to me.With 2-stroke engines,I'd think it would be more like .005 in.But then what do I know,I'm not a mechanic.
A note about honing and boring. If you cylinder is still round,clean and in tolerance you can get away with a light honing and a new piston and rings. (I have 3 friends that during the summer pull the cylinder off hone and put in a new piston and rings every year. A little excessive I think.) Now boring will be necessary if the cylinder is damaged or out of tolerance. When you buy your new piston the mfg. recommends the clearance required to make the motor last. When you bore you must finished the bore by honing. If it is do correctly there will be a cross hatch pattern on the cylinder walls. All good shops will follow this procedure.
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