Well, after almost a year has passed since my buddy lost control of his FS3000 toy hauler being pulled by his F-250 coming down Sierra pass. He had sway bars and bags. The trailer swayed somehow and took over the control of his tow rig. He ended up smashing into another vehicle and the passenger in the other was killed and the driver injured.

The highway patrol cited him for hauling the trailer with a tow vehicle that was not rated for the weights of the trailer even though he was not too loaded up. The injured sued him big time, the insurance company disowned him due to the fact that he was improperly rigged and was "using his vehicle for purposes not intended by the manufacturer" even though they insured both vehicles.

He is awaiting trial for manslaughter, lost a civil suit for 1.2 million dollars, of which he was able to get 300,000 dollars from his insurances company sold his home, toys and vacation property to pay for it.

His wife divorced him and he is probably going to do some time.

Bottom line is the man is broke, lost his wife, affected PERMANENTLY the life of another man, and killed a woman all because he didn't want to spend another few grand for the right sized tow vehicle.

Moral of this lesson: BE WARNED! You idiots out there that know you are over limits or running too small size tow rigs, PRAY you never get in an accident!

If you have any questions about this, I know the whole story and would be happy to share if any of you want to know more.

My question is, does he sleep downtown by the stadium? because i saw a couple bums down there, no im just kidding, im really sorry about your friend i dont know what i would do, that sucks, i will always to under the actuall max of my truck

Very sad story indeed. I think that it is even worse that he has lost everything, and looking at jail time too. He was probably devistated enough just with having to live withthe fact he killed someone else. Was he aware that the truck was not rated to tow that much? Hell, our truck is rated for 7500 lb, and I was driving a flat bed with just the buggy (1400lbs or so) passed a semi and then the wind smacked us right after the draft from the truck. It got out of shape real fast, but I managed to straighten it out. It was scary for sure. We are now getting an enclosed 24ft (soon) and plan to do everything to make it as safe as possible for towing. Sometimes this stuff is out of your control though. I hope that your buddy makes it through all of this.

More importantly, watch your speed!

I have heard way too many people bragging how fast they drive when towing. Just because it's possible for you to drive 80mph pulling a trailer, doesn't mean you should be.

Try 65. You might end up 15 minutes behind, but one accident ahead.

Lol, my dad tows our heavy flat bed trailer with just my bike about 80 mph all the way to elsinore, it tows great and my truck is rated at 10,000 so i think its pretty safe, theres just my bike onit and we dont have any problems

oh how much does the fs3000 weigh and whats the limit on the f-250?

That is the exact point that I have been talking about, I know everyone in our camp is pulling more than their truck is rated for, we all have F-350's and all of us have 35' or bigger 5th wheels, I was running around 4500lbs over specs for my truck, after consideration I bought a used F550 and now I am safe and comfortable, but I know the others are still over, and both of their trucks are sitting on 37 and 38 inch tires, which makes the truck even more unstable. If you think about it, you spend $45K for a diesel F350, then another $10K for lift, etc. then $40K for a trailer, then ??? for all the toys in the trailer, and find out your truck is overloaded so you have to spend at least another $30K for a tow vehicle, its tough, I got a smokin deal on my F550 and sold my buggy at the time so it didnt hurt that much, but for the normal person, spending all that money to be safe and sound sometimes isnt an option

Actually the speed limit in CA is 55 mph with a trailer. In AZ, UT and ID it is the normal posted speed limit. In AZ and UT it is 75 mph. We usually run about 65-70-ish BUT then again we have just a flat bed trailer with the buggy.

Fact: any modification to a vehicle, any, can void the factory original towing capacity. tires, lift, etc............you idiots better think about that.

Yeah by adding bigger tires ya have to upgrade the brakes, the rotating mass causes the truck to stop slower, but by adding some aftermarket brakes and a bigger rotor then ya equal it all out,just because your vehicle is rated at 12,500 doesnt mean ya should push the limits

Yeah, and trucks and horsepower tv on channel 45

and from what i saw....there are MANY lifted trucks towing trailers at G...


its not as much as the lifts/tires causing problems.....its people wanting the biggest/baddest trailer out there which would be way over weight for their rig

Some trucks are sold wirh a light duty tow package. If you get the HD tow package it will have different springs,shocks,stableizer bars and brakes. The tow rating stays the same but you have greater saftey factor with the HD tow package.

I'm thinking instead of calling people "idiots", maybe let them know that even if they do have a 3/4 or a 1 ton vehicle they still might be illegal and maybe give them ideas on how to rectify that. A question I have is that I noticed my hitch distrubrution weight is 10,000lbs and 1000 lbs at the tongue. I'm pretty sure I'm over that when I pull my fs3000 so in order to make myself legal is it just a matter of getting a heavier rated hitch? I thought class 5 was the biggest? Any thoughts?

Jeff

i know that i am at my limit with the truck i use f-350 rated at 12500-with my trailer loaded im at the 12500 i not out to make any land speed records and the only time iever reach 65 is on a flat grade and no wind- my .02 is you drive whats safe and dont push the max-i have been considering the purchase of a much bigger truck and will make the purchase next year, but for now i will push the limit, and pray that everything goes well

so an f250 cannot pull an fs30 safely?


I thought it was all within the limits?

The lift and very large tires probably played the biggest role. The bigger tires you go, the more sway you get from the soft sidewall of the tires.

I can appreciate the message you are trying to give. I spent alot of time and money upgrading all of my stuff to be legal and handle the best.

I considered all options for at least 4 months before I decided to sell the buggy and buy the tow vehicle, I think I have learned more and forgotten more about GVW, GCVW, and all that then I ever want to again, I do know the towing capacities for the F450 and F550 are the same, but payload capacities are different, ratings also change with gearing, motors, trans, brakes, and a few other things, GCVWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating) of my standard cab, 4X4, 4:88 geared, 19.5" rim, 7.3L, 6spd manual is 27,500, the truck with 1/2 a tank of gas weighs 8210, trailer full weighs right around 14,000, weight adds up quick and when you are driving can get out of shape even quicker, I would almost bet that 30% of ALL people who have toybox trailers are pulling more than their vehicle is safely rated for, just use caution, arrive 30 minutes later and be able to go back again.

To re-state...
Watch your SPEED.

Weight ratings are important, but the are not the final word.

Even if you are WITHIN the weight limits, you can easily get into trouble (as mentioned before).

Even if you are over the weight ratings (and I am NOT recommending this) but drive cautiously (read 55 mph MAX), you can be safe.
SAFE means driving well within your limits. You cannot focus on one limit and let another slip by because you are so careful about the one.

The key is safety. Not weight limits/ brake size/ tires, etc.

Driver experience and attitude are two KEY components hardly (not?) even mentioned in this thread. Yes, weight limits are important and they MUST be considered when towing, but they WILL NOT ensure safety. Experience, common sense and a good attitude will go far in making things safe.

Journey, I couldnt agree more, very good point.

Hey Pumptup,
I appreciate you letting people aware of what could happen. The aftermath of what your friend is going through is nothing short of hell on earth for him. I mean not only he has to go around with the guilt of taking someones life, he doesn't have his wife there to keep him strong. And then losing his home. It just puts everything in perspective. You can be going down the highway of life enjoying every minute of it, and then just around the bend can be something that can knock you to the ground. I can understand why you're so emotional Pumptup. It's gotta to be hard for you to see your friend go through this storm in his life. Thanks again and now I understand where the "idiot" came from. Out of pure frustration. Take care my friend. My prayers are with your buddy.

Jeff

This thread has got me thinking about my set up. I am running around #2500 over my total gvwr. Don't beat me up but I looked at he Dodge 3500 yesterday and it totals out at #14,000. Thats #1500 more than my total now. I have had some close calls braking and a couple of times it shook me up for awhile.

Remember one thing about towing, trailer brakes are your friends. When, not if, you get a little out of shape while towing, hit those trailer brakes. It will always straighten you out. Most towing accidents happen because of speed and balance of the load.

I tow my toybox a lot, both work and pleasure. For example, I have towed my WW FB26 over 4000 miles in the last 6 weeks. I tow thru the snow, rain, and wind. I have had some close calls and I am within my weight ratings, the trailer brakes have always saved me. When on the freeway, turn the trailer brakes on a little more than you would driving around the neighborhood, if the trailer starts to sway back and forth, hit the trailer brakes and everything will straighten out, this goes for ice and snow also.

Also one other thing I noticed, people tighten up their load equaliazation bars too tight. You need to have tongue/hitch weight. When you push too much of the load on to the front tires of the tow vehicle you loose stability while towing, tongue weight good!!! FYI, I use a 1200LB hitch for my 26FB. The 1000lb bars bent over time.

It is sad that this guy is learning a valuable lesson this way, especially the wife thing, what a Biatch!!!!!!!!!!!

I would only use the Load equalization bars if the trailer's tongue weight really lowers the Dually. The bars are nice because they do decrease the bouncing, which allows for better control while driving on rougher roads. I would think 10,000lbs you should have the bars, that should equate to 1000lbs of tongue weight or more??

Has anyone ever weighed their tongue weight unloaded and then loaded???? I have this belief that some toyboxes might be heavier on the tongue when NO toys are inside? I think they think that most buggies will go in, and the engine will be behind the axles, so the builders might compensate for this??? What do others think on this??

Not sure about the tongue question...
But I did print this unfortunate story out and have filed it with my "Glamis Check-off List" So that I will be forced to at least acknowledge it each time I head out to G.

It's easy to get a little hyper thinking of the fun you're gonna have and get a little lead footed.

Sorry for your friends misfortune, At least some good may come from spreading the story.

Find a public scale and weigh your vehicles!!!!

I just weighed a motorhome this weekend and the guy was shocked to find out his back axle weighed 21,300 lbs! This is over-weight for a single axle, even with dual tires.

He also weighed it side-to-side and found that the left side out-weighed the right by almost 1,000 lbs.

Take the time and effort to check-weigh your stuff. Don't believe what the manufacturer says it weighs, actually find out for yourself. I have done this with every setup I've had and I'm well within limits on everything.

Finally, as stated earlier, don't drive over your ability! Stay focused on driving, road conditions, traffic, etc. If you get tired, STOP!! Take a break. I've done this as often as every 45 minutes. I've stopped less than 20 miles from home. So what if you get there later, you get there alive.

I am sorry to hear about your friend. And as washroad says WEIGH YOUR STUFF!!!!!!!!!! In the long run it will be the cheapest 5, 10 ,20 Dollars you will ever spend. Do Not guess!!!!!! Weigh it side to side and front as well as rear.
This is a good case of the tail wagging the dog. Remember that what ever weighs the most will usually control the situation.
Please pay attention to this your life as well as the lifes of others could be at stake.
Fuzzy

I really don't know the rule about tongue weight but those who haul stuff have told me that it should be approx 10% of the total trailer weight. My toy box that is pulled behind my M/H weighs 9100 loaded with a tongue weight of 860. M/H weighs 17200 loaded. Approx 2 times the trailer. I use No bars or sway control. But it is behind a M/H. It does not move - probably because of the huge envelope of air that I produce. I have added Air bags and Biltine Shocks along with more springs on this coach to make sure every thing stays where I want it tooooooo. Above all BE SAFE.
Fuzzy

I can't figure out how the guys in moho's and long travels tow legally. I've been shopping for gas moho... can't find one with a larger tow rating than 5k. A long travel and a 20' trailer weigh at least 5k. I would guess the average long travel is about 2100 lbs and the average enclosed trailer weighs 3000 lbs. Now add fuel, tools, etc and your probably at 6k in most instances. Doesn't sound like much, but that's 20% over the rated capacity.

So, now what? The only way I can safely and legally tow my toys with a motorhome is to go with a diesel pusher rated at 10k for towing. Cost difference= a lot! Cost of being liable in an accident like the one described in this thread= infinite!

very unfortunate incedent for sure. this topic is a must read by everyone.