The whole movement has largely socialist motivations. I don't believe in socialism.

These guys basically blame capitalism for the problems we're facing financially. The cause of our problems isn't capitalism, it's corporatism i.e. the government colluding with corporations and bankers. Government is the problem, not capitalism.

I am glad that people are becoming passionate enough to make a stand. I just believe their energy is misguided.

The trend has some analysts very concerned — particularly after reports claimed union bosses tied to the Obama administration were plotting to bring about chaos. And while the protests which began on September 17 may be small now, supporters and critics alike say this may be only the beginning of something much bigger.

In just the last week several large labor groups have officially announced their support for the occupation. The NYC Transit Workers Union, with nearly 40,000 members, voted to back the protesters on September 28. And the SEIU’s massive 32BJ union, which claims to represent over 120,000 property service workers, recently decided to use an upcoming rally to show “solidarity” with the Wall Street occupiers.

The whole movement has largely socialist motivations. I don't believe in socialism.

These guys basically blame capitalism for the problems we're facing financially. The cause of our problems isn't capitalism, it's corporatism i.e. the government colluding with corporations and bankers. Government is the problem, not capitalism.

I am glad that people are becoming passionate enough to make a stand. I just believe their energy is misguided.

Proposed List Of Demands For Occupy Wall St Movement!

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy.

Lloyd J Hart 508-687-9153

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City
Posted on September 30, 2011 by NYCGA
This document was accepted by the NYC General Assembly on september 29, 2011

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

Oooh, this guy gets it.



It's breath of fresh air compared to the guys showing off the image of Che Guevara.

Hate to say it, but I don't think I heard a single thing that kid said that wasn't true.

< - - wonders how many protesters will be leaving Liberty Park to go stand in line for the new I-Phone . . .

That guy's pretty much right wing. Didn't finish all of it, but I too, agree. Ron Paul would probably smash 90% of those idiots on the head

I like what he has to say too, but something isn't adding up for me. He starts his rant with his concern for a disappearing middle class. (left)

He doesn't like big government, and loves Paul (very right).

Although I would love to see Paul running the show, I don't think this young man realizes that under a true Libertarian, corporations are cut loose. That wouldn't bring jobs back to U.S.; nor stop the shrinkage of the middle. If anything, it expedites it.

I like the overall message, but unfortunately it presents a fundamental dichotomy between two ideals that are not likely to work together, unless a large portion of the population realizes that there is no longer any differences in today's political right and left. Both major political parties are weak. Candidates can choose what party they want to run under. They often change parties depending on who they think they can get more votes from. In the end, there exists no real differences between the two. If everybody unified under the same message of "we are tired of 1% controlling what 99% of us do," then shit can start changing. As long as we are too worried about building border fences, about whether abortion is right, about a couple people smoking a joint, about having to press one for English.... then we are too distracted to do the things that really need to get done.

There are different ways to look at how the middle class is shrinking. The left generally suggests the problem is due to lack of regulation, and the way to combat this is with more government intervention. I believe this is wrong.

The kid in the video shares my opinion that the Fed is to blame. Inflation, economic bubbles, and government rewards for the banks and Wall Street are all products of the Fed.

More here:
http://mises.org/daily/2983

I was against the bailouts from the very beginning. To me it was rewarding bad behavior, they say they were too big to fail. I say lets tear it down to the foundation and lets start over, yes it is going to be a big ugly mess. However the longer it goes on, the worse it will be when it falls. We cannot continue this way! People will have to ban together and work together, I'm just not sure that will happen in a positive way.

Totally!

What's really sad is that they operate in secrecy. A partial audit of the Fed recently discovered that they gave out $16 trillion to banks and financial institutions, 1/3 of which were in other countries. They created this money out thin air - more than our whole national debt. And this was a PARTIAL audit.

I like what he has to say too, but something isn't adding up for me. He starts his rant with his concern for a disappearing middle class. (left)

He doesn't like big government, and loves Paul (very right).

Although I would love to see Paul running the show, I don't think this young man realizes that under a true Libertarian, corporations are cut loose. That wouldn't bring jobs back to U.S.; nor stop the shrinkage of the middle. If anything, it expedites it.

I like the overall message, but unfortunately it presents a fundamental dichotomy between two ideals that are not likely to work together, unless a large portion of the population realizes that there is no longer any differences in today's political right and left. Both major political parties are weak. Candidates can choose what party they want to run under. They often change parties depending on who they think they can get more votes from. In the end, there exists no real differences between the two. If everybody unified under the same message of "we are tired of 1% controlling what 99% of us do," then shit can start changing. As long as we are too worried about building border fences, about whether abortion is right, about a couple people smoking a joint, about having to press one for English.... then we are too distracted to do the things that really need to get done.

Thats my thoughts as well and thanks for helping me clarify what I was trying to put into words. I dont begrudge the CEO who gets a 12 million dollar golden parachute. I dont own their stock. I would like to see the issues separated and these protests be solely about the ineffectual govt this country has (PAST AND PRESENT) and how beholden to corp. America they are, at the expense of the people.

Our freedom loving founding fathers are rolling in their graves right about now. The eco-religion and the kindergarten mindset at it's core is gonna kill this country faster, and with more certainty than all of russia and china's nuclear bombs at the same time could.

There was a thread in PI that had a test to see where you landed on the Political S[spectrum based on a series of questions.

Just read that thread and the labels given some members here....total one-sided extremists some are.

I popped up as dead center - "Centrist".

Not because I don't have an opinion on anything, quite the contrary - I have Strong opinions on independent issues.

I don't march to party line rhetoric.

There are different ways to look at how the middle class is shrinking. The left generally suggests the problem is due to lack of regulation, and the way to combat this is with more government intervention. I believe this is wrong.

The kid in the video shares my opinion that the Fed is to blame. Inflation, economic bubbles, and government rewards for the banks and Wall Street are all products of the Fed.

More here:
http://mises.org/daily/2983

You (we all) should be concerned about some fat ass sitting in an office smoking cigars getting paid $12M for golfing with his buddies. You can't convince me that he earned that money, he just got paid it. That's the problem with this country, too many people want to get rich for doing nothing but sitting at a desk. Nobody is that productive that they are worth that kind of money.

It's called greed. When you want more than you're worth. It's so ingrained in this society, nobody eve notices it any more.

I'm not sure exactly why those people are rioting on Wall St. Chances are, they don't even really know why. But I think it's way over due.

Steve yore absolutly right .... Yore job though I only think you should get paid $3.35/ hour tops to me what you do is worth that . I am sorry you and your employer decided to pay you so much more. Maybe if you smoked cigars and played golf you could get paid more.......

You (we all) should be concerned about some fat ass sitting in an office smoking cigars getting paid $12M for golfing with his buddies. You can't convince me that he earned that money, he just got paid it. That's the problem with this country, too many people want to get rich for doing nothing but sitting at a desk. Nobody is that productive that they are worth that kind of money.

It's called greed. When you want more than you're worth. It's so ingrained in this society, nobody eve notices it any more.

I'm not sure exactly why those people are rioting on Wall St. Chances are, they don't even really know why. But I think it's way over due.

Just to clarify, Im not talking about the banking execs making millions for helping create this mess, Im talking about the CEO's of companies like HP and Yahoo. The shareholders should be concerned, but what happens if those private companies go out of business or spend themselves to bankruptcy is not my concern. They did get taxpayer money, although I guess my 401 K's would be impacted. Im just pissed at the Federal reserve and the entire banking system (and those people who used their house like an ATM machine)

I never understood how there can be a left and a right. There are so many disagreements between the way each side believes (and I mean completly one way or the other thinking, no in between on some arguments), I just don't see how someone can pick a side and agree with everything the party they affiliate them self with has to say.......

I'd lump anyone who makes a multi-million dollar salary in the same boat: greedy.

Let's get back to what motivates people: money. The desire to succeed, get ahead of others or where they were before. The very foundation of capitalism. Nobody founds a company in the hopes of sweeping the floors for 20 yrs. They want to make millions while doing nothing but ordering others around and hiring someone else to sweep the floors. That's not really work. Starting a company is hard work, bu ordering others around isn't really work.

So what happens when you pay someone enough money that they could retire at any moment live off of their golden parachute and and never even notice the loss of income? They become complacent, they lose sight of what made the company great. They forget they work for CUSTOMERS, not SHAREHOLDERS.

When CEOs make decisions based on quarterly dividends for shareholders, that's called shortsighted and it's bad for business as a whole. When they make strategic moves that will pay off in the long term, that's good for business. Without getting into too much detail and speaking VERY broadly (meaning there are lots of exceptions), most American companies are shortsighted and dividends driven, and many Japanese companies are core business driven and make strategic moves that may not pay off for years, but will put the company in a great position for decades.

Look at Honda, Toyota, Yamaha just ot name a few. Yamaha makes motor vehicles and musical instruments. In both categories, arguably some of the best in the world. Why? Because of R&D and a commitment to excellence and engineering. NOT to dividends and shareholders. Their symbol is 3 tuning forks, meaning all of their engineering is based on resonant frequency, whether it's tuning the cabinet of a piano or designing the intake and exhaust of a quad, resonant frequency is at the core of their business.

How did Toyota and Honda start off so small and get so huge? Especially when they sell 90% of their cars overseas. Most of their cars are designed for export, not domestic use. Because they invested in R&D, designed superior vehicles, more reliable and better fuel economy and paid attention to the features customers wanted. Even before GM collapsed, Toyota's gross profits per yr were more than GM's total asset value. Meaning Toyota could have bought GM with cash reserves, not even pulling a loan to buy an entire company that used to be a cornerstone of the US economy.

How did this happen? Because GM spent too much effort catering to investors, and paid too much to labor unions. If they had focused more on building better cars (all of the American auto mfrs) the Japanese wouldn't have been able to sell enough cars to make any difference at all. Think about it. Some guys on an island smaller than CA out designed, out engineered and out sold the big 3 from the biggest, most powerful country on the planet. By focusing on the work, not making money for investors. You don't build a better car by catering to stockholders or doing anything by committee.

That's just one example. Look at the bridge being built up near San Francisco by the Chinese. They're building it in China, then shipping sections all the way across the Pacific, and they're doing it better, faster and cheaper than we can locally. We should be utterly disgusted at that fact.

You (we all) should be concerned about some fat ass sitting in an office smoking cigars getting paid $12M for golfing with his buddies. You can't convince me that he earned that money, he just got paid it. That's the problem with this country, too many people want to get rich for doing nothing but sitting at a desk. Nobody is that productive that they are worth that kind of money.

It's called greed. When you want more than you're worth. It's so ingrained in this society, nobody eve notices it any more.

I'm not sure exactly why those people are rioting on Wall St. Chances are, they don't even really know why. But I think it's way over due.

Yes, the Fed is to blame, because of deregulation. If they hadn't deregulated the banking industry, they wouldn't have been able to make all of those risky investments that failed and brought them down out of sheer greed.

If it was their own life savings, they would have been more prudent. But since it was everyone else's life savings and they were getting paid huge bonuses even for total failure, they didn't care. The whole lot of them should have been convicted and sentenced to death.

I never understood how there can be a left and a right. There are so many disagreements between the way each side believes (and I mean completly one way or the other thinking, no in between on some arguments), I just don't see how someone can pick a side and agree with everything the party they affiliate them self with has to say.......

I see myself as a fiscal conservative, but a bit more liberal when it comes to social issues. I think of myself as belonging to "The Common Sense" political party Too bad we don't actually have one though.

I agree partly. I'm always baffled by those who act like the two parties are so different from each other. The fact is that both the Democrats and the Republicans do basically the same things. It's always more government power over the people, more war and more debt. I've heard Obama referred to as "Black Bush." Aside from his healthcare plan, I think this is pretty true.



I use the "left right paradigm" because it's popular terminology. Generally, I refer to government in the same way this video does. It's all about government power.

Get the government out of businesses and end the crony capitalism, and I couldn't care less how much money someone makes. It's none of my business.

Are you sure "greed" is the appropriate term? It's the same word my communist cousin uses when he tries to convince me that people are selfish for not wanting to give their money out to other people.



It's important to understand that the banking industry made the risky loans they did because the government told them to. Then, after the loans turned bad, the government bailed the banks out, with the help of the Fed. That's nothing close to a deregulated free market - it's literally the opposite. In a free market, banks are far less likely to make risky loans because if the loans fail, the banks lose money, and could go out of business. You want to blame the banks, but you should be blaming the government.