Okay, I have a friend helping me with a complete teardown of my Banshee. We've got most everything under control, but I'm a complete mechanical idiot and I'm balking a bit at tearing down the motor. This buddy says we ought to be able to do a top end rebuild fine, then reassemble the bike and send it out to a shop for tuning.

This is at odds with the insistence of another friend that 'shee motors are like voodoo and mere mortals should never, under any circumstances, attempt a top end rebuild. He says, however, that I should be able to tune the engine myself once I get it back from the shop doing the rebuild. Both of these guys have pretty extensive two stroke experience, although neither has any with the two cylinder.

I'm inclined to agree with buddy A, who says we can build the motor but ought to have a pro tune it on a dyno? What thinks you all? Thanks in advance...

If you vote for Bush I'll rebuild it for you.

I already had to sell out to Chummin to get a tow back to camp last weekend.

what are you going to do ? piston and rings or are you going for the gusto? if your going for major HP improvements who are you going to have do the machine work. If its jsut P&R not much to tune and if your going for the gusto the guy who is doing the machine work can give you a starting point.There is not that much voodoo to deal with. Best money I ever speny was the Trinity 2-1 carb set up this makes tuning mucho easier.

Right now I'm looking at having Scrib's in El Cajon do the machine work. I'm gonna try and make it in there over the next day or two to talk about how far we're going to go with the engine, I think that'll determine how much of the work gets done in my garage.

You should be alright just putting pistons on, as long as your buddy does it. Are you doing the work or is your mechanically inclined friend doing the work?

1) buy lots of
2) have friend A rebuild it while you drink
3) have friend B tune it while you drink
4) go out for the maiden voyage and blow it up again

i havent voted yet cuz ineed more info. are you gonna go witht he top end only, sleeve it. or go totally nutz on the HP?


this will help determine my decision.

whatever you do dont let buddy B while rebuilding it or you will be towed back again.

If you can afford it, have someone else do it for you. That way, when it blows up on the first ride of the new season, you don't have to be pissed at yourself . . .

I think if you don't really know what you are doing, take it to scribs. If your buddy screws it up it can put a good dent in your friendship when it costs $2,500 to fix your motor you just blew up. Everything may go just fine, but are you willing to take the chance? I do alot of my own work, but I always take the banshee in to get the carbs dialed in. It takes a special syncronizing (spelling?) tool. If you do some serious motor work, get your crank welded.

Ive got a 97 shee thats .100 over, ported polished, case matched the hole nine yards and I did a top end rebuild myself that has lasted one very hard season. I got my machine work done at The Racers Toy Store in Escondido. The guy is amazing and his prices are very reasonable. He also does dyno tunning and gives you a flow sheet that tells you your fuel curves and max HP. I just dropped off my DS650 to him monday for a carb rebuild and dyno tune, the bike made 39hp to the wheels add about 17% and thats what it makes at the crank.

Dont be Scared, if you need help just ask and I will be glad to help.

Be careful with Scribs.

I've torn mine apart a few times. Even did Pebbles' Blaster. Tore them COMPLETELY apart and then tuned them up myself. Both still run great. Have 6 seasons on my engine, going to tear it apart thise weekend as a matter of fact. ALL the way apart. Gotta replace my crank bearings and I'm boring 1 step up. Just be smart and torque everything per factory specs. Also, be very smart about your warm up/cool downs. At least 3. And then be careful when you jet it. Don't go crazy until you jet it and get in at least 1 good mid-range mid-throttle ride. Then re-jet it again and then you can go crazy.

My advice is to do it yourself (with help) and take it somewhere to have it tuned, Allen Fox is the man for dialing it in and the bore job (619-445-1415). I tried to dial in Carrie's myself, but now I am going to take it in to Allen and have him tune it. Eff banshees and their dual carbs

If you need any help with the rebuild, let me know

What is the going price for having your banshee professionally tuned at a shop?

Thanks all for the good words and all ye with little faith. The top end came off no problemo last night (against the unanimous advice of the board at that time), everything looks good down below, so I don't think we're going to eff with splitting the case. One thing, how much side-to-side play in the rods would you guys consider normal or acceptable?

Me and Ryan went in to Motoworld last night and picked up the Wiseco top end kit I need, plus a handful of other things (including a Toomey 1 into 2 throttle ) for a few bucks more than half what friend A said it would cost to get my cylinders honed. They go in today, along with the head I'm trading for a ported one.

We also went to town on the frame with a ton of heavy duty paint stripper. Another couple coats and a light sandblast today and that sucker'll be ready for powdercoat by the end of the night. At this rate, I just might make the night ride on my b-day...let's see how quick I can get Ricky to do the lights when it gets to that stage...

EDIT: Typos.

Side to Side play, not that much. Not sure how much in mm's though. But hey, did you have your cylinders honed? You should. Also, when you put your cylinder on your piston, put some of the 2 stroke lube on the wall of the cylinder first. Then, kick the bike over a couple of times with the spark plugs taken out. That'll help seat the rings.

The cylinders are out getting honed right now, should have them back Monday. I've got probably 4-5 mm of side-to-side slop on one rod, maybe 5-6 mm on the other. Thanks for the advice about the 2 stroke oil and seating the rings...I'll try it when we get to that part. We're in the middle of sandblasting the frame to prep for powdercoat, I'm planning to get the motor done next week to have ready when the frame comes back on Thursday or Friday. For my first rebuild, this is going infinitely faster than anything I've seen my friends or a shop do. Thanks again all for the advice and offers of help!

So how did that metal paint stripepr work? did ya get all of the paint off in the nooks and crannys?was i8t hard to rub off the paint

The stripper worked great, I put 2 coats on last night and two coats the night before. It got probably 70% of the frame down to bare metal, and stripped away the topcoat just about everywhere. Ryan gave it about 45 minutes under the sandblaster last night, a little more today and we'll be ready for powdercoat Monday. Oh, and I exaggerated about the prep time on your frame on the other thread, plan closer to 5 hours working on it than 3.

Buddy A says it'll be okay because the piston will be tight in the cylinder and there won't be any room for slop...I'll ask Motoworld next time I'm in for more parts...

Motoworld in my opinion doesnt know much about bikes or quads, ask alba i think they have way smarter guys who have had years and years of experience, just my opinion, motowrold is good for some parts and gear

I have a few friends and more than a few friends-of-friends there, and they're local...the few times I've been in Alba, I haven't even been able to get a tech's attention, and they've seemed almost bothered by my presence trying to buy parts. Motoworld is TOPS in my book.

4-5mm to me seems like a lot of play. But hey, like you said, ask someone that builds them all the time.

Why did you prep your frame? In my experience, all powdercoaters sandblast the stuff before they coat it.

side to side is not a problem it's up and down that you have't to worry about

Okay, for one, I re-checked and was grossly exaggerating the side-to-side play, it's closer to 2-3 mm on both sides. Up-and-down play (I know this is the bad stuff) is also minimal, less than 2 mm. As far as the frame prep, I'm getting hooked up on the powdercoat...for one it's not going to a traditional aftermarket powdercoater, for two I'm paying next to nothing for bringing them a frame ready to plug the thread holes and PC.

if you have any up and down play that's bad. Or so I've been told.

Thanks for the advice, guys! I'll take the whole engine in for a once-over by a pro before I put the top end back on.

There should be absolutely ZERO tolerence in up and down movement of the rod on the crank shaft. The rod bearing sould be in constant contact with the rod and crankshaft. The side to side movement should have a little slop to lign the piston up correctly with the cylinder. Upon close inspection of the rods, PSDave has about .015-.020 of play back and forth. It seemed a bit excessive to me. I tried to move the rod up and down on the crankshaft, but could not tell if the play was coming from the side to side motion when I pulled or pushed or if it was infact coming from the up and down on the crank. When I tried to isolate the side to side movement, it seemed as if there was no up or down movement on the crank, however a second opinion would be nice.

Just replace your Crank Bearings if you're not sure about it. Probably cheaper than having someone go through it.

We're taking the engine with us when we go to pick up the top end tomorrow, hopefully a mechanic can give us a more experienced opinion. We also finished sandblasting the frame today, it goes in for PC tomorrow.

I dropped the frame off at the factory this morning for Powder, should be done tonight or tomorrow. I am taking PSDave's motor in to Scribs today to pick up the top end, and have him examine the rods. I want to say the thing will be alright.

IMHO I've NEVER had any problems with Scribs or Motoworld. I built my whole bike (88 R) at Motoworld, plus with my bros Maxima discount, I get a really, really killer price on parts. Service is great (helps to go to school with counter salesmen) and as far as Scribs, when I need that little B.S. part that no one has, or can get, or even know what I am talking about, Scribby will pull the part out of his ying yang, and saves my ass every time. Plus, he always jumps on my parts, got right on the cylinder work I dropped off Friday afternoon, pick up in 10 minutes. Can't complain with those two. (Money talks, and Bullshit walks.)

Well, looks like the bottom end may need to come apart...goodbye affordability and any shot at making another night ride! Hello October...

Oh man that sucks . . .

Going to look for some second opinions...

Sorry about that bro, but it is better to be safe then sorry. No use of putting on a new top end and having the bottom go in a few months.

What I'm looking at doing is the Hot Rods crankshaft and connecting rods. It apparently comes with all new parts, assembled and ready to install...kinda pricey at $400 and change, but I'll know everything's fresh and ready to go. Thank you, Mastercard...

PSDave and I just got back from Motoworld, looks like the crank may be a bit cheaper than the cheap price he quoted me yesterday. We just figured it would be better to just have them put it in. He seems like the "if you're going to do it, do it right" type, so hopefully it'll get done right and in reasonable time. PSDave thought he wasn't making any more night rides. We'll be out on the 28th don't worry.

Um, why buy whole new cranks? Is the rod bad? The crank? Crank shaft? If you're worried about the bottom crank bearing, how much is it to replace that? Anyway. Good luck with the rebuild.

Time and concerns about my amateurish (at best) mechanical skills. It's gonna be faster and easier to just get the bottom end back tomorrow or Monday ready to rock...the frame came back tonight and it looks BITCHIN'. We're trying to get the swingarm and right a-arm back on tonight, we mashed up a rubber grommet getting the left side off, so it's gonna be another Motoworld trip tomorrow to pick that up. Pics to follow when I get into work to dl 'em...

We went ahead with the new crank because
a. didn't feel like hasseling to get the old one out, then have it taken apart, and pressed back together.
b. supposedly, the new one is 'precision balanced'
c. we're still shooting for the 28th, and there is the rebuild, and the tuning left to do.
d. it was cheap for a new one, and labor was really cheap.

I guess we could have put it back together, just didn't turn out that way

(If he had bought an 'R' he wouldn't have this problem. )

Introducing only the second frame (the first being an employee's cycle) in Race Car Dynamics' signature powdercoat, Gator Black.

It's got a killer rippled effect that has to be seen to be believed...this pic with my junk-o Palm camera won't do it justice...

We ended up getting a little more than the swingarm and right a-arm together last night...rear brake, airbox, stem, radiator, lights...yeah, it was another late one.