I want to help save our dunes in the best way possible, I support everything that all the organizations do, but I want to become more involved and help more, what organization is the most helpful in the saving of the dunes? to be honest I really dont know what each organization focus' on, the main ones I have heard about are ASA, DUNERS, CORVA, and one more I cant remember right now, thanks for your input, Ian

Saving the dunes is going to take many different strategies and lots of support from the community.

No one group will ever be able to take on the task all by themselves. Heck, the rest of the riding areas throughout the southern California desert combined don't have the visitation numbers that the Imperial Sand Dunes have and there are literally hundreds of access groups supporting those areas.

There are long term goals and short term goals and each and every one of them are as important as the other and they all need the users' involvement in order to succeed. And, the short and the long term goals are all vital to our future.

So what to do? I have always said the first step to helping in the fight for our dune future is to get involved with an organization. Any organization. Pick one. Pick two. Pick twelve.

Many groups operate under different philosophies. Pick one that best suits you. Will any one group be the most ideal for you? Oh, probably not. So, like political leaders, pick the one that most closely suits your needs. Or, better yet, pick several.

In the end, the only thing that will really matter is that we are all still playing in the sand, and that is a common goal for all access organizations.

Vicki

You want to get more invovled than just joining??? The first thing I would do, volunteer some time at either ASA or DUNERS booth during the SSSS, the show is like 6 weeks away. It is easy and will get your feet wet. It is easy and you get to know the people face to face.

Another organization that has been quite involved with ISDRA access and wasn't on your list is SDORC. Not trying to point you in that specific direction, just wanted to mention another organization that was in the fight.

I think Vicki & Alex hit it well. Just getting involved with the fight is the most important part.

Jon

I belong to many, volunteer with whichever one I feel like at the time. I've yet to do anything for SDORC yet, but sure I will one of these days as my intrests are not ALL sand.
ASA
DUNERS
CA4WDA
SDORC
about cover my intrests.........

Ian, you're getting some great advice. The best part is that it is coming from people that are involved.

If you're not quite sure if you're ready to join an "Org", check out a group or a club. YumaDuners and R&R Duners are good examples of them. Clubs are less formal and most of them are active in one way or another for our cause and will also give you a feel for things.

The SSSS suggestion is a good one.

I dont think you can go wrong with any of the above mentioned !. The main thing is that you want to help ! awsome!. I say join them all after all its free isnt it !. Then you can help with donations, your time , whatever you can ! .

with "MOST" of the groups I checked on personally,
the dues/membership fees are NOT tax deductible ...


just join 1 or several and pay the money .... it is going to
help preserve your my of life .....

See here to sign up to work the ASA booth at the SSSS:

http://www.americansandassociation.org/php...wforum.php?f=19

Julie

I have been a member of the SDORC for about 4 years now. They are a great group for the San Diego area and beyond. Yes they do require a membership fee, it is well worth it. They have been in the middle of the fight for the dunes since the beginning. Plus they also fight for off-road access in all of the off-road areas in the county.

Plus one other benefit is that they have a huge selection of merchants in the area that give great discounts just for being a member.

Can't go wrong with any of the before mentioned Orgs. I am a member of BRC, CAL4Wheel, and just signed our Club up with SDORC.
For my volunteer time, I surf the Offroad Boards looking for Clean ups and such. See how my schedule fits with what is going on and then just go. It's a great way to put names to the screen names I see every day also.

Jack

You'd be better off putting you money down on a number at the roulette table - That is a personal opinion only - How can you even think about putting money in one or more orgs that bicker about which is better then the other when the ultimate goal is the same..
All these orgs and we still had more closures last season. All these big wigs acting like effing kids and taking pot shots at one another all the time - this aint dirt clod wars anymore.. WOrst part is - Anytime you get around them - they make you feel as if you are part of the scum if you are not "involved" or "giving" or...
Oh sure - It costs millions to hire people to lobby and do studies and ..

Damn - My fees went up almost 4 times in less than one year. And suddenly those fees are paying for studies.. sheesh. Give me a break..
Errrgh.. Then all this bad mouthing - where and why.. The end is in the orgs themselves..

Sierra Club

Swark - Tell me again what the ASA as the leader of the fight to keep dunes open has done.
I mean come on.. Closing Comp, olds, and watning to close the drags. More regulations and higher fees.. I know I know.. who am I - right?? I must be kidding..
People who use the dunes, pay, and volunteer - give and give and give and give.. for what?

Its as easy to sit there and say its this much to do this and that -
Its just as easy for me to sit here and say where and what?

So - NO - Im not kidding.

Ask away

From the ASA website:

SATURDAY, AUGUST 21, 2004 - 10AM
COURTYARD BY MARRIOTT
DOWNTOWN - SAN DIEGO
530 BROADWAY
SAN DIEGO 92101

Very well put. Thanks Jim

Vicky - I have no idea what to expect. Im going with an open mind cause someone told me there was a meeting and that I should attend to see it in person. So I will sit with my ears on and see what happens.

Im an easy person - Im going with an open mind.

Chum is voicing the frustration of many. The fight to re-open the dunes has been going on for approximately 4 yrs. It’s still closed and our fees have gone up, and he has every right to question what has been accomplished. A lot…a LOT has been done. Not just by the ASA, but by many groups and individuals. We have to keep in mind a couple of things:

1) The greens have been around for a LONG time. The Sierra Club has been there for over 100 yrs. and the CBD has been a tax free org since 1994.(That’s 10 friggin YEARS….where were YOU 10yrs ago????….Hell, I didn’t even know Glamis existed 10 yrs ago….) The CBD had over a $1,000,000 (yeah.. 1 MIL !!!!) budget for the year 2000 and they have full time PAID staff that does nothing but find and file lawsuits to close land. In 4 short years, WE (i.e.…us off-roaders) have managed to organize and fight the CBD to the point where THEY approached US. Yeah, what they wanted is a joke, but the point is…they recognized that we ORGANIZED off-roaders are a force THEY have to respond to and fight. Something they didn’t have to do before…in ONLY 4 yrs.

2) Accomplishments. I can’t list everything that every org had done, but I will point out a few as examples. DUNERS ran the Glamis clean up last year, (and did a fine job, IMO) . They also have some really great programs and opportunities going for safety and training for both adult and child riders. They have, I am sure, done many other things, both publicly and behind the scenes. (Not trying to speak for DUNERS…just illustrating some ‘achievements’ by the orgs). The ASA has paid for the initial studies on the PMV (and continues to do so) and is pursuing the de-listing of this plant in court. (see link) Roy Denner (I believe, from ORBA) has testified before Congress on a couple of things, one of which is the gross miss use of OUR Fee Dem (tax) money on the monitoring studies. This push by ORBA, the ASA and others has, IMO, helped convince Congress to begin passing legislation aimed at stopping this stealing from us. (Not speaking for the ASA or ORBA..see note to DUNERS above) None of this stuff gets done without help and/or $$$$ from the off road community.

Keep in mind that the Greens are in this thing for the long haul. That isn’t 1 yr. or 4yrs., or 10 yrs, or 20 yrs…they are in it for EVER. …repeat E V E R. They want all the land they can steal. They aren’t going to give up, or go away. All that stands in the way of the Greens is the BLM, the FWS and those .orgs that are pro-access. If you feel that the BLM and the FWS is all that is necessary to protect your right to ride, then, by all means, don’t join or support any group or .org. But, please don’t complain about what the FWS or the BLM does either, ‘cause them the guys that you have put your faith in. (Don’t forget, the BLM was the group that agreed to the current closures) I am not slamming anyone who doesn’t want to get involved or provide $$$$. It is your choice.

Obviously, for me, I don’t trust the Government alphabet (BLM, FWS et) agencies to do the right thing, so I am going to support the pro-access orgs. Compare this fight to the Iraqi war. It isn’t gonna be a quick fix. These nut cases are fanatics, zealots…they won’t quit, and, if we want to keep riding, we better not either. Every time you wonder if the fight is worth it…try and remember the places you CAN’T ride anymore….Like Pismo, and Whtiewater.and and And AND!!!!!!!!!! It’s a LONG list. Where is the line in the sand? When will we have given up enough land to the Greens? How much longer do YOU want to ride at Glamis?



PS...Trust me Chum...I'm just as frustrated as you are.....but we gotta fight em' if we want to keep riding in Mother G.

PPS..While I was busy writing, I see Chum posted....look forward to seeing you on Saturday.

Excellent post Lloyd

Llloyd, you hit it right on the money, no roulette table necessary!

To disregard the general dune population is wrong, elitist and self-serving. I've tried to say all along that the orgs need to recognize and accept as reality the fact that in this, as in all activism oriented issues there is a huge silent majority that the orgs need to recognize.
Certainly one aspect of any activist org should be to work towards gaining monitairy and popular support, but those goals should never come at the expense of alienating the general (duning) public. Without the silent majority all orgs are simply special interest groups with very small constituenties. It should be the goal of a good org to work towards meeting the needs of all, not just the select group who are members of their org. This is why, in my opinion, the Off-road community is having such a hard time orginizing. To many of the "people" it appears that what orgs are out there are too busy working towards pleasing thier group and spend far too little time assessing the opinions of the general duning public.
This thread expresses some of that frustration. The "What have you accomplished?" opinion is a common one. At the very least it is a valid one. It deserves an answer. There are some attemps at answering that question, and they are very good posts, but there is also accuisation and critisism. Why?
If someone is not a member of any org does that make them not duners? Does it automatically mean that they do not care? That they do not wish to do any of the work? No, it doesn't. There are any number of very valid reasons for someone to not be a member of an off-road org.
If you are a hard working member of an activist orginization fighting for the rights of off-roaders then I applaud you. I say thank-you, but please remember, you are not doing this for yourself or your org, you are doing it for everyone. If you cannot accept that then maybe you should re-examine your motivations.

This board is filled with duners and off-roaders of all types. Young and old, crazy and sane, loud and quiet and whether you can appreciate their particular form of duning or not they are all still duners. Glamis is a place for all, not just those few who practice one particular style or form of enjoying Glamis.
This is a very good place to reach out to those duners who may not be inclined to participate in dune activism. To find out just what Glamis means to them. To discover exactly why Glamis is worth saving.
And Glamis IS worth saving... Isn't she?

The problem with leadership within any organization is that for every decission you make, you are going to upset someone. Be a leader long enough and you'll piss everyone off.

Trying to fulfill the needs and desires of a large group is not a small thing, just keeping everyone in your own family happy can be a real challenge.

Personaly, I applaud anyone that puts in efforts to keep the dunes open, whether they suceed or fail, since they are doing more than I am.

Politics and litigation takes hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars. The only way around that would be if you got the 100k people involved, but that just doesn't happen.

I have no doubt that fewer than 5% of the people in the mentioned orgs do 99% of the work.

So, where do I send my checks?

And of course, get the opinions of the people in an atomosphere that they will feel more comfortable in.

The start time for the public to attend the ASA BOD meeting has been backed up to 10am. The public is invited from then on.
During the meeting you can and are invited to ask questions. Everyone is welcome.

I just returned from the Coral Pinks and while walking around the small campground I saw several campers with Glamis flags/stickers. I approached many people and talked to them briefly about things Glamis and was surprised that most of them were not members and had not even heard of many of the orgs fighting for our rights. I handed out several ASA business cards and got good responses from them and actually got 6 people to join!

That's one way to do it. A couple people at a time. Wherever you find them. See a Glamis sticker, ask them if they're a member of any org, give them a little info, thank them for their time.

One friend of mine has membership apps with him all the time and will actually get out of his car at intersections and hand them out! I talk to people everywhere, including grocery store parking lots!

A person's level of involvment has a lot to do with their personal lives. I have some friends around the corner from me that are going to work all 3 days at the SSSS next month and that is about the extent of their involvement, they are so busy with children and work that they don't have much time for more, yet they are very dedicated to the cause.

Isn't that about how most people are? In any org/group/club? I'm personally glad for anyone that joins and helps. I'm also personally glad for anyone that supports the cause whatever their level of involvement.

I wish everyone would join some org, any org, but if you don't want to (or can't) that's OK too. You can still lend support.

Very interesting and well-informed opinions on this thread. As a 26 year Glamis duner I base my input upon which group appears to have the most effective voice in the government.

Of the three letters I have received back from various Washington,DC representative they have all mentioned my personal letter and the ASA. My neighbor has 10+ letters and they all mention the efforts and effect the ASA has had upon the sand lobby in Congress. Not one other organization was ever mentioned in any of letters addressed to either him or myself.

Because of this my money has gone to the ASA.

It seems to me that choosing which organization to support and/or join is very much like choosing which political candidate to vote for... there is no right or wrong choice and everyone is entitled to choose which path they feel will take them furthest.

But, unlike political candidates, when it comes to access organizations we also have the option of more than one vote, which is why so many of us are members of and support several different organizations all at the same time.

And taking the step to be involved in whatever form suits you, whether it's donating money, volunteering time, sending letters, etc., is never the wrong choice, no matter which path you take.

Vicki

This topic having more activity gets my post vs. the meeting thread.

We've just recieved confirmation that Dr. Art Phillips will be at the ASA open board meeting this Saturday. He'll have some info on the decision and the upcoming issues. We also learned that Greg Thompson of the El Centro BLM will be there to give a presentation on the various issues.

2 more reasons to come and learn!

Didn't Greg Thompson leave El Centro and go to the California Desert District Office?

Who is Dr. Art Phillips?

He is the person who did the ASAs Milk Velch Study

You bet Hozay, Slap would love to play to. Make up somethin nice and slapptacious...'Relaxed atmosphere where most folks will speak their opinions whereas in most official meetings they won't.' A good place to get the feel of the Glamis duner. Not all night, just a piece of it...

And of course, it would be good to hit the official ones too; listen and take in as much of what is happenin. This Saturday would be a good one to hit.