Fellow Duners,
I have a question.
There are several groups out there, The ASA, Corva and others that are working very hard to keep our Mother Glamis open. They have very grand plans that involve hireing lawyers and biologists.

My question is...
If YOU could do anything to help KEEP our sacred land open, what would you do?

Would you hire more rangers?
Would you try to get Glamis turned into a National Park?
Would you charge money for parking?
Would you limit how many people are allowed into Glamis?

What would YOU do?

Lets hear it. No answer is wrong... The more answers the better.

Pastor Vor

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The Church of the Shifting Sands
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thechurchofth...heshiftingsands

That IS the question. Everybody loves to ***** but there is no simple cut and dry solution to our problem. I don't have enough pipe bombs to go around, so even though I feel a killing spree is in order, it's just not feasible at this point. I think the key is to get the whole situation into the public eye. If everybody, not just duners, knew what was going on, I'm sure that our fight would be short and easy. Did you know that some people that go to glamis and consider themselves duners don't know about the fight? I met some folks last trip that had a rail and 2 quads and come to glamis a few times a year that had NO IDEA. I was amazed! I thought everybody knew! It got me thinking, how many people really know what's going on? The fact that it is a fringe sport is what might bury us. If they tried to shut down Edison Field and Bank One Balpark due to "environmental impact issues" the general public would see how stupid it was and make sure it didn't happen. But, unfortunately there are no pages in the local paper dedicated to our sport everyday, there is not 8 minutes set aside every night on the 11 o'clock news for us, and surely you won't see any "Got Sand" t-shirts at your local mall. The fact is, that nobody outside of our sandy little bubble knows what's happening and I think that's what's killing us right now.
The Goon


To err is human, to goon is devine!!

I would make it closed to everyone but ME! Just kidding, I have no good solution to the idiots...some people just suck!

------------------
Mr.Budweiser
CR500 (Bored Out)
Proud Member - H8U Racing
Ride Hard - Die Happy

Brainwash every one of the enviros into thinking we need more OHV areas OPENED up

I can dream.

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Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.
What do you do when you see an endangered animal eating an endangered plant?
LOST COAST 4x4s

[This message has been edited by Stacy (edited 02-08-2001).]

One thing I've noticed is alot of people seem to think that there needs to be more law enforcment. I don't know if more law enforcment is what I want for Glamis. I think more actual enforcement wouldn't be bad but to just hire more people with no real plan is just throwing fuel on the fire.
Did you know the TRT is trying to get a rail for the rangers?

Pastor Vor

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The Church of the Shifting Sands
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thechurchofth...heshiftingsands

I think number one on my wish list would be to find out the facts! Are the Algadones sand dunes really the only place that the Milk vetch grows? Does duning have a negative or a posative impact on this plant? Are the enviromentalists really concerned with this plant or is there another underlying reason? I've heard alot of rumor's but I want to know the facts. I think that this is what the ASA and the Blue Ribbon Coalition are trying to find out.

I would like to see a change in the way that laws are made regarding the way that they close things such as Glamis, Yosemite, Littlerock Dam, Whitewater, etc...
I think that if they want to close something that there should be a vote.
But the vote should be by the people that actually use the Public land and not by the couch potatoes.
The vote should be taken at the proposed closure area.
If they want to close Yosmite, take the vote at Half Dome.
If they want to close Glamis, take the vote at the top of China Wall.

I like your idea Robbie,
If you are interested you should look up the Environmental Protection Act
That is the law that gets missused to close these lands.
My ULTIMATE goal is to get the EPA REPEALED

Bottom line though,
Federal lands ---- Federal rules!

Pastor Vor

------------------
The Church of the Shifting Sands
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thechurchofth...heshiftingsands

I gave this topic some thought and I came up with some ideas that might sound crazy to some and to others damn good.


1. The law enforcement is plenty strong it just needs alittle more support for the ones who are on their side. There really isn't a side but the ones who abide by the rules (most of the time). I suggest on this for people to stand up, maybe invite the ranger down in your group at Comp so he is surrounded by friends & support, that have his back. His presence alone makes some unconfrontable. Who's going to mess w/ him w/ a group backing him. Maybe when you see the rangers parked in the back at Olds ( which we did) invite them in the middle w/ your group. They feel safer in numbers. We had two blazers parked w/ us dead center of olds and everyone slowed down and waved. The people like to see them mingle too. Long as there is no power trip.

2. These weeds- (sorry flowers) with all the money why not use chicken wire around them instead of these very expensive but few closure signs. How about closing one area for awhile then opening it an close another. You know how the farmers do it on their pasture fields. Let the area grow to be strong then open it and see if we do respect these plants. Once strong close another to build them up. once all areas are strong again the dunes should be open for all. Thats where the chicken wire comes in. Once strong, fence it to protect it.

3. Speed on sand HWY is almost controlled by mother nature. The whoops slow most trucks, rails, and some bikes down. Speed around the camps is an issue though. Near Gekco it is at times. Maybe off the pads about 75 feet make a 5 ft burm that runs w/ the road so that it would make that area a slow area. Like at the river a NO WAKE ZONE. The rangers can enforce that much better too. Plus the burm can shelter the camps from some sound and possible wind.

Those are three of my ideas out of 15. So chew them up. Tell me what you think?

I won't feel hurt. Everyone has an opinion.
Later
Kennie

[This message has been edited by Kennie (edited 02-08-2001).]

So glad to have found this board... some real THINKING duners who care about the survival of our beloved riding areas. Together, we offer more solutions than alone. Kennie has suggested some very powerful and feasible ideas here, folks. Organization and team spirit is the answer, along with the public knowledge Dune Goon spoke of. Keep it coming!

[This message has been edited by Banshee Gal (edited 02-08-2001).]

What would I change.

#1 - Better training and support for the existing rangers in the dunes. We've already got rules and laws in place to stop most of the problems but they aren't being enfored properly. We need better training for the rangers to help them deal with the huge crowds without making the situation worse...I've seen peacefull gatherings turned into national news riots before due to improper police action. I don't want to see that happen in Glamis. We don't need more rules we just need the ones we have enforced better.

#2 - Better communication between the BLM and duners. I still haven't seen any notice at the dunes from the BLM about the closures. The ASA, CORVA and others have signs up alerting people but why dosen't the BLM?

#3 - More support from the rangers. Most of the group I dune with don't want to fly checkered flags because they don't want to support the rangers because of #1. They've seen the rangers turn bad situations worse too many times, and feel the rangers focus is too much on enforcing small rules (riding double, no helmet) while they should be out helping those who are in need of the rangers assistance.

#4 - RESPECT - More from everyone for everyone. Actually this should probably be number one since it's where most of the problems are coming from - duners not respecting the Rangers, partiers not respecting the duners, people not respecting the rules....

#5 - Enviros who can live up to what they preach. I just posted this whole story on GOL but basically a friend who is a conservative enviro (Sierra Club member but enjoys off-roading as a way to enjoy nature) who lives the true enviro lifestyle. His house is off the grid with only solar power, his own spring and cistern for water, a composting toilt and wood heat. He also lives mainly off his own land by growing and hunting his own food. But he's currently renting his home to the biggest enviro activist (as in that's his job) in Southern Ohio. This "super activist" is about to get kicked out becuase he can't live the lifestyle he preaches. The guy burned pressure treated wook in my friends fireplace which is extra bad since my friend normally uses the ashes from the fireplace as fertalizer and in the composting toilt - now those ashes are contaminated with arsenic from the pressure treated wood. This same super activist has let the land go into such poor shape my friend almost had to cancel his trip out here because he had so much repair work to do. Heck the guy didn't even take my friends cat to the vet when it got attacked.

If the enviros were serious about saving the planet they'd attack the root of the problem (overpopulation) and have themselves fixed. Then go live the "natural lifestyle" they preach. My bet is less than 1% of them would last more than a week living the way they claim we all should be living.

I'm sure I've got others but this just got way longer than I expected

I see it this way. We've got two types of people there. "Victims" and "offenders."

On busy weekends at comp for example. If us the "experienced duners" stay at camp. This last Thanksgiving I stayed at camp and guess what. I saw NO rowdy punks. My car was safe. I was safe. I had fun. I had some beers and hit the sack early. Then I went to Comp in the morning and found all kinds of cans that I took home and made back some gas cash.

If NO ONE went to the Rose parade, The parade wouldn't continue.

There is a "bad part of my town too I just don't go there. But I read the paper and smirk when I hear they kill one of their own!
When my wall gets tagged I paint over it. When my home gets broken into I file a police report and go look for my stuff at local pawn shops. Don't laugh. I got back the first guitar back this way and the guy who took it got caught for it. Because there was a system in place. Not because I started a neighborhood watch. NOT because I put bars on my doors and windows. And you can bet I won't buy a pistol grip 12 gauge with a 14 round clip to end the life of an ignorant person who thought taking what I have will make his life better.

SURE I have a problem with Vince and Keith and their ASA. But I also think because someone wants to play super man, and have a "cause" MAY NOT be any better than the "greens" who use our riding areas as their "life affirming cause"

Hats off to anyone who wants to take on a worth while cause, and do a little "outside the box thinking" But please DON'T ignore a system that doesn't work the way YOU want it to.

Is the fact that we lost more area fair? NOoooo! I say just don't ride there! Go to court and plead "our side" and DON'T be a victim just to have a cause!

JonR

Jason, Jon, Goon... the rest of you...
Man it is so good to see people besides youself who seem to "Get it".

Not going to Comp on party night is a MUST.
We have pleanty of laws already, we don't need any more...
The Rangers are perfectly good Rangers and, from my experience, perfectly good people.. they just are not trained or equiped for the problems they are facing.
Alot of the problems at Glamis aren't really problems... Alot of people have camped next to an unruly camp before... It doesn't happen EVERY TIME you go to Glamis. One bad camp doesn't mean there is some kind of problem. (I wonder if this problem is more prevelant at Gecko than at the Washes?)
The ASA is a GREAT organazation... It has a good purpose... It might be the answer to the Greenies... But the ASA is NOT going to bring peace to the world. The ASA is just ONE PART of the puzzle.

My 2cents

Vor

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The Church of the Shifting Sands
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thechurchofth...heshiftingsands

I agree VOR but here's a question for you to spin in your mind.

The people on the outside of this board and our group will see our event right, how do you think they will re-act towards our gathering? Will we be the roudies?

Just a thought.
Kennie

one long term solution that comes to mind is parental education. i remember my father taking me out every morning before i could ride, and we would pick up trash. i do this even now. the young kids who go with their parents are the future of the dune community and they will either become responsible duners like the majority of people on this board or they will become the problem element that is hindering our sport right now. while not a short term fix i feel the persurverance of our lifestlye depends on it.

I HAVE thought of that, Kennie.
One thing for sure. We'll have to be sure to practice what we preach.
10:00 the radio gets turned down...
There is NO trash anywhere...
There is NO haulin arse around our camp or anyone elses camp.

I don't really think there will be a problem. Everyone will be policing each other.

Could you imagine what people would think if 40 or so rides ride up to Olds... and start picking up trash... for no reason at all? Might even recruit a few people!

I expect there will be comments on this and other boards on how this party goes. I am confident that the reports will be VERY favorable.

It seems to me that we have a large group of people who are decent, nice, and really want to help out their fellow duners. How can you go wrong with a group like that?

Have faith, brother!
I'll be there till the end to help take care of any problem that occurs. I know there will be others.
We'll probably be falling over ourselves to help out!

We will be a good example to the dune community on HOW to have a good, decent, fun party in Glamis without being trouble makers!

Will it go perfectly? Of course not. But I have faith that it will be good. And I intend to try to get as close to perfect as possible!

Besides, the dune gods are smiling...
that is all that matters in this whole world!

Pastor Vor

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The Church of the Shifting Sands
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thechurchofth...heshiftingsands

Poorboy brings a thought to mind...

We've all seen flyers, posters, bulletin boards ect. that say "save the dunes"...

What do you think of this?

What if we were to get a bunch of trash bags... and attach an instruction sheet to the bag... something that says...
"Help save the dunes... use this bag to pick up someone elses trash... The dune you save just might be your own."

We could explain the idea of picking up TWO camps each time you come to the dunes. Clean up your own and clean up one other near-by camp. No bad feelings about having to do it... Just make it part of your dune trip... Pick up two camps...

What do you think?

Vor

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The Church of the Shifting Sands
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thechurchofth...heshiftingsands

Pastor VOR, when I first started posting on the various Glamis web sites, I kept asking why anyone would go to Comp at night just to hang out because of what it had become...a playground for the dysfunctional. Most of the posters soon agreed that an unofficial "boycott" of Comp at night was one way to deal with it. Skip forward a year or so and the next thing you know someone decides to have a gathering of the "checkered flag to show support for the Rangers, ect" duners at Comp at night, and I suppose I am a part of that "group" because I have a checkered flag on my Quad. These are the same people that are screaming the loudest about the problems at Comp, and yet they want to go join the crowd!! I pointed out that the troublemakers don't give a damn about what "message" we are trying to send to the Rangers...they were there to party! The Rangers aren't going to be able to distinguish one flag from another at night, and we all look alike in the dark!
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with showing your support for the Rangers. I think it's great. I just think that if you want to "show" someone something, they ought to be able to SEE it! A massive daytime gathering at Olds or the drags makes a lot more sense to me than freezing your ass off at Comp! The rest of your post is right on the money. I have been going for over twenty years and have NEVER had a problem with another camp, let alone other duners. I must be missing something!!

Kenny, I look at it this way. Who cares what other people think of our actions. As long as we're doing the right thing, the worst that could happen is crucifixion. I hear that's what happens to those who stand up for their beliefs

JonR

OT, I said NOT going to Comp on party night.
I agree with you. I avoid Comp like the plague.
Also, If I read correctly the Lazer Line will be at OLDS this time!

Night time at Olds is the way to go!
When the partiers take that over, we head to Brawley slide!

Vor

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The Church of the Shifting Sands
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thechurchofth...heshiftingsands

Pastor VOR, I should have made it clear that I agree with you about Comp at night. I was referring to the first "Lazer Line" and how it didn't make sense to hold it at night. Olds is the logical place to have it, but a daytime rally makes more sense to me if the intent is to show support for the Rangers. I seriously doubt if there will be a Ranger in site at Olds at night. If we want to get together to socialize, that's great. But let's call it what it is...a party for the "good guys"!! I will admit to having a selfish reason behind my preferring a daytime gathering...It's too damn cold at night, and I don't see as well at night as I used to! I want to see you guys "up close and personal" and daytime is my playtime!!
One more thing, VOR...I'm starting to worry because I find that we have more in common than I thought, and I remember yelling at you a couple of times on the old board!

Haha, Yelling at me huh? Well, don't worry, I never remember who it is who yells at me.... Too many to remember!

I'm a guy who's only been going to Glamis for about 6 years, but I have LOTS of friends that I camp with who have MANY stories about "The good 'ole days". This is what I long for and where alot of my beliefs come from!

Looking foward to meeting you OT! I also think we have alot in common!

Vor

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The Church of the Shifting Sands
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thechurchofth...heshiftingsands

i see alot of talk about more law enforcement. i feel the enforcement begins with ourselves. If all the responsipble parties take it upon themselves to police their own actions and the actions of others in our camps then the bad apples will start to smell and make it easier for law enforcement to focus in on them. if we leave all the power to others then we must also accept the fact that the ones with the power will determine what they feel is best for us

porboy

A) I say we get Ted Turner to go with us and Jay Leno (for PR), Get them hooked on buggies and the Ted can buy the dunes back for us. Ted happens to be the largest land owner in the USA. A few dunes for his broadcast public would be good Mojo.

B) Otherwise we Duners gather ALL up in our motor homes, buggies, trailers ALL and invade and take over the capitol. If we cant park in the desert will just park there and ride around.

C) We invade Baja Mexico and take over the whole dam peninsula for ourselves like we should have 200yrs ago. Create our own Freedom Nation.

D) Regardless, start our own organization, WWF, Sierrra Club etc with all, CORVA, ASA, BlueRibbon etc all shut down and working under one name, one management group and have lobbying power. Perhaps the Gasoline, automakers and motorhome makers would back the list.

E) Screw your grandmother so that your kids are genetically unique just like the PMV and plant their ass in the desert. Would you want either around?

F) VOR for President.

I like your TED TURNER idea...
I was thinking more along the lines of putting a Nuke Plant out there in the middle...
That'll keep all those Greenies out and we do NEED the power!

Vor

------------------
The Church of the Shifting Sands
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thechurchofth...heshiftingsands

I brought this up in the days of "hey lets all go to Barstow". It got nowhere, and I saw another mention of it a while back.

TURN GLAMIS INTO A TOWN!

All cities started with rutty roads out in the middle of nowhere. Can't we just "squat" there for as long as it takes to establish a permanate residance? Say one at comp, one at Olds, one at Gecko, one at each of the other hills, and from the aquaduct to the washes? Give the general store a post office and we'd be set. HEY I'm serious!

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?...
WELL IT AIN"T OVER NOW!

WHO"S WITH ME?

AHHHGGGGGGGggggggggggggg....

(anyone seen my beer?...Thanks)

JonR

quote:

---

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?...
WELL IT AIN"T OVER NOW!

WHO"S WITH ME?

AHHHGGGGGGGggggggggggggg....

(anyone seen my beer?...Thanks)

JonR[/B]

---

Hey Jon, When did the Germans bomb Pearl Harbor?
I'm still laughing my A$$ off from that one.
(no more beer for you today...)
Germans huh? HAHAHAHAHAHA

ok....i dont know why people wanna close glamis down so will someone tell me plz?
i heard something about a weed and a lizard but thats it.

glamisgrl

I'll try to make this as short as possable.
The greens don't like us.
They think they found an endagered plant.
They told the Gov. to protect it.
When they didn't they thought they could force the gov. to by sueing the BLM.
In an effort to please the greens they closed part of Glamis "for a study of the plant"
Did I leave anything out?
Now about the lizard and the weed thing All I can tell you is use protection. Get the rest of the story from your parents.

JonR

glamisgrl106,

what you have heard is correct regarding a plant causing closures. the plant is the peitersons milk vetch. while the closures are based on this i feel it is just a scapegoat for the enviro ****s to eventually try to eradicate us from the dezerts completely. the milk vetch was just a way to get the process started.

Slappy notice somethin' that happens a great deal when talkin to enviro-people and about the 'happenins' down at Mother Glamis.
Oh, sorry glamisgrl106, Slappy fill you in a little: nearly half of Mother Glamis has been closed down due to the existance of an endangered plant (weed) called da Peirson's Milkvetch. It be on da federal endangered species list because it grows ONLY on Mother Glamis. OK, extreme environmental groups such as the CBD (Center for Biological Diversity, a totally 'unslappylike' group) was joined by da Sierra Club and Peers, two more extreme groups(you can call dem green groups). Now, these three 'unslappylike groups sued da BLM(the BLM owns our dunes Glamisgrl106) saying they(BLM)are not doing enough to protect the Peirsons Milkvetch plants from us, the people that ride in the dunes. Slappy hope you still with him Glamisgrl106. Those green groups be saying dat we kill da Peirsons Milkvetch by being out there with them. Slappy know that is not true. So, the BLM closed down half of our riding area anyway to protect the Milkvetch, without even talkin to Slappy first. Slappy know dat there be more Peirsons growing in da most active riding areas than they do in the closed area north of highway 78. Slappy mean dat Mr. Milkvetch like to grow in areas where Slappy like to ride. Mr. Milkvetch like Slappy. Slappy hope he help you Glamisgrl106.

Now, Slappy want to expose somethin'. Slappy notice that when discussing da closure, most enviro-people focus their attention to a small group of selected individuals who be responsible for the rowdiness and lawlessness, and Slappy re-iterate, those people be a very small percentage. The enviro-people claim dat the dunes have been taken over by these rowdies, druggies, vandals, and downright bad people. Slappy know that not be true, there be only a few bad apples in comparison to how many people use Mother Glamis each year. Slappy know that the good people that go to Glamis be in the process of educating, uniting, and informing about Mother Glamis. Slappy like that. Slappy will live da rest of his life fighting to open all of Mother Glamis. Sorry, Slappy groovin'. Now, Slappy want to point somethin' out: notice how da focus of the closure, which be da Peirsons Milkvetch, is now focused on da actions of a tiny percentage of people in a localized area (Comp hill at night, only da big holiday weekends). The whole reason for da closure be da PEIRSON'S MILKVETCH, not the rowdiness. Slappy know that the rowdiness will be taken care of by laws already implemented, and with proper law enforcement personel. Slappy don't want any new laws. However, slappy know this be a strategy by da enviro-people, cuz they know that Mr. Milkvetch be livin just fine with Slappykind(human kind);their fight is not da Peirsons, but to get rid of people just being out on Mother Glamis with their mean machines that have feet of rubber. Slappy gotta go, Mrs. McDuner callin.........

[This message has been edited by Slappy (edited 02-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Slappy (edited 02-10-2001).]

Slappy everyone... Slappy...

Now where's Mr.beer?... Thanks

JonR

Slappy wit you Mr. JonRyder, and it wasn't over when da Germans bombed Pearl Harbor. Slappy think some people musta missed dat movie, but Slappy sure didn't, it be one of Slappy's favorites.

Slappy I'm down with what you got going on too! Can a person in a Baja, Pilot or Odyssey play in your land? Or do I need to break out the quad to keep up?

JuanR

BTW Ever seen Texas chainsaw masacre 2? now theres a movie. That and Clerks!

"bunch of savages in this town"
JonR

Slappy accept all rides in his land. Slappy never see CSM2, but saw da first one, it gave Slappy da chills. Da weirdest scene be when gramps was suckin on dat girls finger, ugh....Slappy not hungry for breakfast now, dang! Anybody for sausage?????

ok thanx..you guys r a lot of help.
and jonryder...i think you misunderstood me on the lizard and weed thing.haha.but thanx for the advice. Thank you slappy...i completely understand now, but its kinda stupid, i mean its just a plant.
Thank you too porboy!

Countrys have gone to war over stupider issues! Glad to see you realized I was joking about the lizard weed thing.

JonR

#1. Ban any type of alcohol.
#2. Have a check point , any alcohol found would be taken or they would not be allowed to enter.
#3. Have groups of good people get spot lights and set up on the dunes and keep lights on these fools to where they couldn't hide.
#4. People stick together and let these others know thier stupid ways are no longer wanted.
#5. If people see this kind of thing even in camp areas , turn them in , get a group and ask them to leave.

It would be nice but there are no solutions everyone would be happy with. You can't get enough people to agree and stick together and stand up for anyone thing.
These kind ruin it for all of us. Until pressure is put on them and they realize this is not wanted then you will always lose your right to go to Comp at night.
You have to start at the root.ALCOHOL-DRUGS- and THE USERS.
This will continue until people have really had enough.
Look at most ball games you go to you are limited to how many beers you can buy if it's for sale even. I like my beer as well as anyone. I take beer to Glamis when I go . I drink a couple at night sitting around the camp fire, then I go to bed. I don't drink and drive anything.
Another problem I have heard no one bring up is these people with no concern for others who bring and burn PALLETS for fire would. What do they think happens to the nails?????????
I have had 2 tires on my sand rail ruined because of nails. Whats up with this. Last time we where at Glamis we picked up a pile of nails where a fire had been , was easly a full gallon can full.
Thats like these idots burning mag. at comp at night. People that see this should write down thier license number and turn them in. This will for sure help the greens to close when they see or find the left over peaces of mag.
Well I feel when people are concerned enough or care enough they will stand up and be heard and put a stop to and help control the issues at hand.

My opinion.

Um can I say something about what "rooster" wrote?
A. Thanks
B. Well I'm gonna anyway...
1. I've seen sober A**holes!
2. I've seen people burn pallets with staples that melt. I've seen people pick up nails in the morning after burning pallets.
I've even been woke up with a knock on my trailer door by a BLM officer to tell me to pick up half burnt cans in our fire pit. I put them in with same cans I dug out of the fire the night before. ( I think that got me out of a ticket)

What I'm trying to say by these examples is that there are already laws in place, but they DON'T help EVERYBODYS problems.

BTW let me say welcome and, here have a beer.

JonR

JonR, I agree.It don't matter what rules are law there are,there are those that do what they do.
One Butt makes it bad for everyone else.
Nothing will ever change until you can get people to stick together.
Like the head bangers at comp are what I refer to. The trenchers and those that are afraid of the dunes , that we call camp racers. Anyway hope I can get to a point to where I can meet everyone and be a part of the group.
*LAS BON VER DUR* (Let the good times roll)

What would i change. let see.
#1 I would put asa members with the rangers, like the police do. have ride alongs, this gives a false sence of more law enforcement. when people see two people in a rangers truck they asume that there both rangers. that doubles you man power with out adding cost to the number of rangers.

#2 I would have ck points at both entrances to comp. on the east side on sand highway and on the west side at osborn lookout. these ck points would be looking for people drinking underage, riding in back of trucks, drunk driving. mainly looking for the punks that are just there for the rave partys.

#3 If that wouldn't slow down the problems then you may have to close down the dunes on the big weekends. not something I would like to see. but lets face it the big gripe of the greenies and the media is the amount of out of hand people that are there.
If the population wasen't so big we wouldn't get the attention that these groups give us.

Closing the dunes on holiday weekends poses two problems;
1) By restricting the number of weekends that the dunes are open, you increase the number of visitors each weekend throughout the season (same No. of visitors - less days open).
2) By allowing closure of the dunes during holiday weekends would in essence provide the precedence to close the dunes on other equally "popular" weekends. What we don't want to happen of course is to open the door even a crack to the liberal enviros.

Remember, for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction. We must minimize the negative while accentuating the postitive. Just as prisons don't rehabilitate, we must educate.

V.O.R
Wow, what a question and wow, some really good answers. I am part of the "other board" but I do read this board almost every day. I don't post much on this board because I know a lot of the people on this board kind of dislike the "other board people" but after really reading all the post on this subject I had to post, "Hey everybody we all are thinking the same thoughts, we are just wording it differently" We all want the same thing and we all know what that is. So I am not even going to say it. I wish I could be at Kennies Party this weekend and meet you all but I have to work and my rail is not yet finished ( money and the weather problems)I hope you all have a good time. Be safe. Happy President's Day.

Paleale

[This message has been edited by Paleale (edited 02-27-2001).]

Hey Pale! Good to see ya over here. You are welcome in my camp anyday.
I see that you said that you don't post much over here because you feel that alot of the people over here don't like the people over there... I am sorry to hear you say that. I will have to give alot of thought to that statement and figure out a good way to make our true feelings known.
We just got back from our get together and finally got a chance for everyone to talk about things face to face. This subject actually came up. This perception that the two boards are competitors or that there is Us and there is them.
This really is not the case. What has happened is that some people who have had posting problems in the past at the other board have come here because we tend to be a bit more open to new ideas and such. Wether that is true or not I don't know but it is true that some posters over here have had issues in the past at the other board. Many of us just simply disagree with some of the views over there. That doesn't mean that we don't like the people. As a matter of fact I've enjoyed almost all of my conversations that I've had with members of the other board. Even those that I disagreed with!

I would like very much to dispell this perception that there is some sort of conflict between the boards. Is there something we can do to help change this perception?
I highly reccomend the post "Welcome to the Church of the Shifting Sands". In this topic I discuss the underlying principals of "The Church" one of those principals is the the idea of "Acceptance". Basicly ALL VIEWS are accepted here. That includes those that we don't agree with.

Anyway, I think you get my point. I would like to change that perception and anything you can do to help would be greatly appreciated!

Also, I would like to welcome you and encourage you to post and spread your views! I've seen you post before and I know you will do nothing but contribute. Users like you make our board better. "Our" board. That means "YOUR" board!!!

Welcome!

Vor

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The Church of the Shifting Sands
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thechurchofth...heshiftingsands

Hey VOR, Thanks, I really did not mean it to come out that way, about this board and the other board, It just did. You are right about this board and GOL being competitors I would very much like to see us and them mean all of us, if that makes any sense. I to have been thinking about how to make it happen. I really have been giving it a lot of thought, so far though no ideas. Yes I have seen some great ideas on this board and this board is more open to "Acceptance" than GOL, Sometimes the Moderators (on GOL) seem to come down too fast on some opinions, it is getting better though. I like when there is friendly conflict over a opinion, it really makes people think and thats where all ideas come from when somebody makes a person think. Thats is how we are going to beat this closure, by somebody coming up with the ultimate answer that will solve the problem for both sides( OHV'ers and Enviros)then we can worry about the little stuff...

Paleale

[This message has been edited by Paleale (edited 02-19-2001).]

Comp. Hill can be controlled if the rangers want to. The post earlier about two check points going into Comp. is the easiest way. Get them before they get down there. You can't haul in pallets and engine cases on a bike, quad or rail. These people will leave if they know the rangers are going to be there every time. Please write an email to the BLM El Centro office and let them know you want check points into Comp.

Paleale:
I'm a moderator on the 'other' board. I would like to say we don't edit opinions. We edit words. Any opinion is valid, even an eco-activists, as long as it is done with respect.

We all need to have more respect! That would solve our problems.

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Tim Wight
Mesa, AZ.
volunteer for the:
American Sand Association
www.glamisonline.com

If you don't mount a whip, where will you put your checkered flag?

Check this web site out: http://responsiblerecreation.policy.net/

I think the enviros need to buy a quad or rail and see what their missing. What do they do for fun?? There is nothing in the world like sitting at the top of a bowl at sunset, kickn' back and taking in the beauty of the dunes.

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Glamis - The Happiest Place on Earth!

Tim come on, let face it gol is getting to politicaly correct. They are so worried about losing the dune that if you make a statement that they don't like, they E-mail you at home and ask you to remove it from the post. thats what I got last night. Granted the statement was stupid, and maybe I should have though twice about posting it. but as in my post I stated that I was just venting. I have sence pull the post per gol's request.