It got me thinking. Does anyone have video of the LEO actions that everyone is talking about? Or photos even? If so I would like to see it delivered to the local news stations ala "Rodney King" I am sure video of LEO brutality would be a headline event.

Pits4Ever & Hungry racing reported they were in the middle of it. Did you get video or pics. I am sure our friend that had that piece about Ocotillo would love to see it.

We need to get this stuff publicized so they back off!

Our group stays away from the hills at night. We almost went on Saturday, but Nik didn't fell it was a good idea, so we stayed back at camp.

My 2 cents.

PP

Why shouldn't the picures be shared? So the online community could get
behind this too ?????




"HAVE A GREAT DAY"

I don't remember seeing anything like that either. Lots of people who say they saw something or heard what happened or have a friend who was there... "a cousin of my friend who works at the hospital with this guy from the Emergency Room..." kind of thing.

I don't know if those ones are even being investigated.

There have been, however, more "concrete" tales that are being investigated.

And like it or not, the astonishing fact is that not everyone in the duning community is as closely connected to the internet as the Glamis Dunes.com people.

If they are, I'm sure they'll come forward and share their photographs. If they are not, I don't know if they can be forced to come forward and share their photographs.

Vicki

Vickie,

I think you are misreading my intentions. I am not looking for entertainment. I am looking for accountability from the LEO's or those who are accusing them. I am looking for a way to solve this problem.

This is not a funny issue to me. Having been involved in a few "LEO" uprisings(the wrong end, I might add), I want to see accountability. I wish I had a video camera in 1983 when the LAPD shut down the LA Strret Scene running me and my family down with horses. Or in 1985 at a concert at the Palladium.

That being said, I am not anti LEO, I am anti BAD LEO........

I would never expect someone to be forced to do anything.... PEACE


BUT, I would think that if I knew someone that had "GOOD" information, that Iwould surely try to incourage them to share it with people that care ,to keep everyone informed.

JMO


"HAVE A GREAT EVENING"

Pits, So do you have pics or not?

Is that a person that comes on here ?????






"HAVE A GREAT EVENING"

Well, I have mentioned that people are interested but have not received anything in the mail.

Perry, I understand your concern because I share your concern.

I am personally conflicted on whether this stuff should be shown prior to concluding the investigation.

The "legal" side of my brain says it could backfire on the possessor of the photograph, who was not directly involved in the incident, but that is a small nagging voice.

The "duning" side of my brain knows all too well how many anti-access people lurk on the message boards, this one in particular and that those same anti-access people do not need my help in getting concrete evidence of extreme LEO action to take with them when they are lobbying to shut us down because they claim it's unsafe for the LEOs.

And that voice is much more strident.

Vicki

As we have seen in this day of video surveillance everywhere. The sooner video and photos gets out in cases like this the more likely action is taken.

Think of any police brutality case in the past 15 years. A lot of them were covered up until video tape started appearing.... Heck think back to the prison scandal in Iraq. Would we have known about it if someone didn't post pictures and videos.

I think the problem is we don't use the media affectively like others.....

I agree.

But "their" likely use of "our" evidence concerns me. I don't really care if "they" cut and paste a post where someone has vented their anger at our situation using every foul word they've ever heard and threatened violence. Anonymous words on a message board have a short shelf life in court.

But photographs are a different thing altogether.

To us, a picture of a law enforcement officer in riot gear shooting someone standing next to his dirt bike looks like unnecessary force.

To them, it's a poster of what they have had to resort to in order to keep the situation under control.

Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER) is lobbying for capacity limits, alcohol bans, nightly dune-wide curfews, prohibition of nightly gathering, you name it, and they are using the need for heavy law enforcement to back up their claims.

While that picture may not hold up in court, it surely will make a strong impact in Washington.

But you know what? It doesn't matter what I think anyway. I don't have possession of the photograph(s).

Vicki

Don't you think if the "Pro-Access" groups showed what the heavy law enforcement actually is? That public support would be with us.

What is it that they say? The best defense is a good offense?
edit to fix broken link

PP

No Perry, I do not misunderstand you. I completely understand what you are saying and you know what? I absolutely agree that the more we talk about this publicly, the better off we are.

In fact, I agree with that so much that I called the lawyers that represent the boy who was beaten over not having a use pass, trying to convince them to bring the details out to the public more.

In this case however, I hesitate.

You believe, and I believe, that publicity can help bring swift action.

I guess I am just plain worried that the swift action would be against us and not for us.

We would use the photographs to bring attention to a problem.

They would use the photographs to bring attention to a problem.

The two problems would not be the same. The photograph could be identical but the interpretation of the scene could be misconstrued. Do you understand what I'm getting at?

Vicki

Sure they would.

And that, my friend, is entirely different than posting some pictures on a message board, which is what I thought was being asked for.

Getting the jump on "them" would be great and involves public relations and media contact and planning the blitz.

Pictures posted on a bulletin board can be captured by anyone and used in any way, which is the only concern I have.

Vicki

Glad to see you finally flopped back this way.

PP

O.K.



Then, what now ???? Who get's the media involved ????

It's been almost 2 weeks now....



"HAVE A GREAT EVENING"

I thought I always understood what you were saying Perry, at least the part about getting the word out as much as possible... it just didn't seem I was making myself very clear

Between talking about getting the word out as much as possible and others asking to see the pictures as soon as possible, and your post here

I just got a little concerned that the bulletin board would be the quickest fix available:

I'm sorry if my concern and your intent got jumbled up.

Vicki

That is another reason I put this post up. What if it didn't happen to 'innocent' folks...

Not saying I don't believe the stories, just saying I'd like to see proof.

If you read the original post, you would have seen that I was asking for them to go to the news media.

My statement below was in response to this post by Southern Boy

I was wondering why someone if they had pictures wouldn't post them as it seems everyone does for every other picture out there...

It looks a bit different when it is in context with the post it is in response to.

PP

Kevin, I am not talking about posting them on the Internet. I am talking about releasing them to the media. Building your case before the media seems to go a long way in this type of situation.


I repeat so no one else misunderstands me:

RELEASE THE TAPES TO THE MEDIA, NOT ON THE INTERNET

Releasing them on the Internet would harm a case.

BTW by the same token, if these situations prove to be false, it would be nice for people to clear the air about them.

Myself, I hope the LEO's don't behave this way to me, my family or anyone who doesn't deserve it. I know some LEO's do, as I said previously, I have seen it happen.

PP

IMHO I feel we have seen more come out of cases when video has been shown in the media than not.

I am not talking about a case to win some money, I am talking about a case to get rid of the bad apples in the LEO community that might be causing this problem.

Who said anything about unruly duners. I am talking about what people are reporting as an ABUSE OF POWER. According to the reports people were leaving peacefully and the LEO's fired on them. If this is the case we need the publicity of how the LEO's are making Glamis into a police state.

I think DP would like to see this anyway and would not like to see it publicized. Or maybe he would feel sympathy for us because he has possibly been in the same type of situation

If in fact the people were not leaving peacefully, then they may have deserved it.

Considering I was camped with the group..... It was innocent. They were trying to get a buggy out that had blown the tranny(speedys car). One of the trucks turned around and tried to go and tow him back. The line of LEOs fired at him when he turned towards the buggy and the line of LEOs. There was no rude remarks from the duners. No hot rodding. No nothing. As far as proof goes.... Three groups of people roll into camp with tears, coughing, gagging and snot pouring from the nose as well as pepper spray pellet remnents in the vehicle abd dents on the outside of the vehicle is proof enough for me.

I was going to say --- wow , and you already ride out there on a 650 @ 9 ?


So, did anyone file a report on this ?