Full Version: ASA ??????
Funny, I been dunin since the 80's. I hear a lot of things on this board that you all have taught me. But the ASA, I am confused. Some like, some don't. If the American Sand Association is what it says it is, then why do I read so much anti-ASA articles on this site? If the forming of a group is to have a collective voice, why the defectors? I am not a member, just a guy who likes to have fun, go to the dunes, try to expand my camping group by meeting others, bring the kids, and let loose from the day to day civilization rules of the city. Sometimes at Glamis I drink, and drink, and drink . And yes, my kids DO get my beer from the cooler for me. Is the ASA something for me????
Big Had, if you want to be kept up to date regarding all of the issues concerning Glamis, then you should at least check the GOL website for information. The ASA has a forum, but it is moderated: your post may be edited or even deleted if the moderators deem it offensive or detrimental to the "cause". This is a sensitive subject to some people, so I suggest that you check it out and decide for yourself. I belong, because, in my opinion, the good far outweighs the bad.
Oh NO! I waited five minutes before replying to this....So hopefully I don't come off sounding too harsh.
Go to the dunes
Have fun
Be responsable
Tell your friends the same
If someone, other than the ASA, ask for your support and it helps the cause, do it
Personally, I gave time & money, but when you start with any input other than that is when you realize they DON'T want that.
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Damage INC
Go to the dunes
Have fun
Be responsable
Tell your friends the same
If someone, other than the ASA, ask for your support and it helps the cause, do it
Personally, I gave time & money, but when you start with any input other than that is when you realize they DON'T want that.
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Damage INC
Freedom of Speech…
The ASA’s board (GOL/ASA) sometimes limits the ‘Poster’ of the content and words he or she uses and SOMETIMES it makes some people MAD. I have been censored, for using the word ‘****’ as in I told the campers parked next to us to: “ please pick up your **** (trash) in camp”. I got into an argument with a GOL/ASA board member over it. I felt they were being too petty. I quit posting there for awhile, but I came back I got over it. Sometimes the good of the whole supersedes the views of the part.
All boards have built in safe guards, even this one. They over there at GOL are really (overly) worried about how the anti off road public views US the duners. They want to be viewed as ‘family types’ that dune rather than, ‘WWF types’ that party.
Personally I believe the Moderators on that board (GOL) do an OK job. BUT you have to realize that the bulletin board there, is not the ‘official’ ASA doctrine.
The ASA overall is trying to UNITE all duners, but lets face it, some of us ‘square pegs’ don’t fit into their ‘round holes’. We the dune community needs to look at the overall picture, WE must work together to keep the dunes open! If you must be provocative, post it here! I now look at GOL/ASA BB as a bland, kind of milk toast board that I use as an information-gathering tool.
The dunes closure was a shock to most of us, 365 days ago the CBD filed a lawsuit against the BLM to close ALL the dunes at Glamis. This past year (dune season) was a fight! Unfortunately, this fight takes $$$$ and the ASA has had to hire lawyers/bontanist to secure that we wouldn’t loose all the dunes! So join the ASA and give $$$, if the bad guys close Glamis, where are you gonna dune?
I have heard a very nice rumor (from 3 sources): The closure of the dunes may be overturned on a technically! The CBD’s suit against the BLM was pushed through because Bruce Babbit XXXPres Clinton’s appointment to Sec of the Interior pleaded ‘NO Contest’ to the CBD’s suit. Now that Gail Norton is Sec of the Interior, WE are going to possibly file a similar suit against the BLM (hoping that Gail will also plead ‘no contest’) the suit alleges the closure was an illegal act, or something…Don’t you love GOOD rumors like that?
So come on all of you disenfranchise members of the dune community, lets stay focused on the BIG picture…KEEPING THE DUNES OPEN (and re-opening the closed areas)!!! Keep fighting the good fight, WE the duners are the good guys, they (the CBD/eco-elite) are the bad guys, and we (the duners) are all on the same team. 2 of the board members at the ASA have put their $$$ where their mouths are: Mark Harms (STU) donated $40,000.00 of his personal money and Grant George at Funco has donated a new $55,000.00 car to be raffled off for a $100 donation to the ASA. Those 2 guys make their living from the sand BUT they are in this fight with us.
I believe you must use your own brainpower to determine if you will support the ASA, personally, I support any group that is fighting for US! I live to dune, I drink it, I talk it, and I speak it…The ASA although not perfect, is doing an overall pretty good job.
BTW, I am just a member, not a board member of the ASA; the above opinion is mine and is based on my experiences with the ASA. Anything I can do to keep the dunes open, I WILL DO!
Will YOU?
Your Dune Friend,
Steve Brooks
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"Make a difference not an excuse!"
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/glamisdunersforcleandunes
[This message has been edited by OBSESSED (edited 04-29-2001).]
The ASA’s board (GOL/ASA) sometimes limits the ‘Poster’ of the content and words he or she uses and SOMETIMES it makes some people MAD. I have been censored, for using the word ‘****’ as in I told the campers parked next to us to: “ please pick up your **** (trash) in camp”. I got into an argument with a GOL/ASA board member over it. I felt they were being too petty. I quit posting there for awhile, but I came back I got over it. Sometimes the good of the whole supersedes the views of the part.
All boards have built in safe guards, even this one. They over there at GOL are really (overly) worried about how the anti off road public views US the duners. They want to be viewed as ‘family types’ that dune rather than, ‘WWF types’ that party.
Personally I believe the Moderators on that board (GOL) do an OK job. BUT you have to realize that the bulletin board there, is not the ‘official’ ASA doctrine.
The ASA overall is trying to UNITE all duners, but lets face it, some of us ‘square pegs’ don’t fit into their ‘round holes’. We the dune community needs to look at the overall picture, WE must work together to keep the dunes open! If you must be provocative, post it here! I now look at GOL/ASA BB as a bland, kind of milk toast board that I use as an information-gathering tool.
The dunes closure was a shock to most of us, 365 days ago the CBD filed a lawsuit against the BLM to close ALL the dunes at Glamis. This past year (dune season) was a fight! Unfortunately, this fight takes $$$$ and the ASA has had to hire lawyers/bontanist to secure that we wouldn’t loose all the dunes! So join the ASA and give $$$, if the bad guys close Glamis, where are you gonna dune?
I have heard a very nice rumor (from 3 sources): The closure of the dunes may be overturned on a technically! The CBD’s suit against the BLM was pushed through because Bruce Babbit XXXPres Clinton’s appointment to Sec of the Interior pleaded ‘NO Contest’ to the CBD’s suit. Now that Gail Norton is Sec of the Interior, WE are going to possibly file a similar suit against the BLM (hoping that Gail will also plead ‘no contest’) the suit alleges the closure was an illegal act, or something…Don’t you love GOOD rumors like that?
So come on all of you disenfranchise members of the dune community, lets stay focused on the BIG picture…KEEPING THE DUNES OPEN (and re-opening the closed areas)!!! Keep fighting the good fight, WE the duners are the good guys, they (the CBD/eco-elite) are the bad guys, and we (the duners) are all on the same team. 2 of the board members at the ASA have put their $$$ where their mouths are: Mark Harms (STU) donated $40,000.00 of his personal money and Grant George at Funco has donated a new $55,000.00 car to be raffled off for a $100 donation to the ASA. Those 2 guys make their living from the sand BUT they are in this fight with us.
I believe you must use your own brainpower to determine if you will support the ASA, personally, I support any group that is fighting for US! I live to dune, I drink it, I talk it, and I speak it…The ASA although not perfect, is doing an overall pretty good job.
BTW, I am just a member, not a board member of the ASA; the above opinion is mine and is based on my experiences with the ASA. Anything I can do to keep the dunes open, I WILL DO!
Will YOU?
Your Dune Friend,
Steve Brooks
------------------
"Make a difference not an excuse!"
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/glamisdunersforcleandunes
[This message has been edited by OBSESSED (edited 04-29-2001).]
See (above), even this board censors the use of bad words...Right-Right...Is "c*rap" a bad word when used in that contex? I don't think so, but obviously the computer does...
[This message has been edited by OBSESSED (edited 04-29-2001).]
[This message has been edited by OBSESSED (edited 04-29-2001).]
This taken from the GOL/ASA BB, from Mark Harms owner of STU and ASA board member:
It has been along time coming, but I think our ride to reopen our dunes has started officially. (Not to suggest we haven’t been very busy up to this point) I want to make this very clear there are no “GUARANTIES”. On April 20. 2001 Judge Alsup singed the order amending the final judgment on the first stipulation which effects our dunes. With out this amendment we were looking at a brick wall with respect to anything that had happened since November of last year. We now have a reasonable shot at reopening our dunes sooner than later. Again no guaranties.
BACKGROUND
On March 30, 2001 Paul Turcke (attorney for defendants) filed a motion for clarification on the first stipulation. Judge Alsup spoke to the subsequent four stipulations and indicated that his signature did not give the BLM the right to close any BLM land without going through the normal process required by law.
In other words his signature doesn’t by itself justify any closures. The problem we had with the first stipulation was that he didn’t make that distinction back in November. The BLM closed the dunes back in December because of what they thought was a court order. What this amendment the Judge signed on 4/20/01 could very well mean is that the BLM closed the Dunes with out going through the proper procedures.
MORE BACKGROUND
Right after the final stipulation was signed by Judge Alsup back on March 20,2001. The law firm retained by ASA and San Diego Off Road Coalition contacted Mr. Paul Turcke. (Mr. Turcke is the attorney that represented SDORC and others in the original lawsuit.) Our firm suggested to Mr. Turcke to file this motion for clarification, Paul agreed and as a result Judge Alsup signed the amendment. Many people and attorney’s get credit for this amendment recently signed.
MORE TO COME
As information becomes public and when our Law Firm gives permission, I will relay what I can and as soon as possible. Be careful of what you read on these boards because this complex puzzle might be missing a piece or two. I’m sure all the best intensions are there however the direction of this case can change from day to day. Questions that any members have that I can speak to please post them and to the extent that I’m permitted too, I’ll bring you up to speed.
Sincerely
Mark Harms
ASA Board Member
------------------
"Make a difference not an excuse!"
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/glamisdunersforcleandunes
It has been along time coming, but I think our ride to reopen our dunes has started officially. (Not to suggest we haven’t been very busy up to this point) I want to make this very clear there are no “GUARANTIES”. On April 20. 2001 Judge Alsup singed the order amending the final judgment on the first stipulation which effects our dunes. With out this amendment we were looking at a brick wall with respect to anything that had happened since November of last year. We now have a reasonable shot at reopening our dunes sooner than later. Again no guaranties.
BACKGROUND
On March 30, 2001 Paul Turcke (attorney for defendants) filed a motion for clarification on the first stipulation. Judge Alsup spoke to the subsequent four stipulations and indicated that his signature did not give the BLM the right to close any BLM land without going through the normal process required by law.
In other words his signature doesn’t by itself justify any closures. The problem we had with the first stipulation was that he didn’t make that distinction back in November. The BLM closed the dunes back in December because of what they thought was a court order. What this amendment the Judge signed on 4/20/01 could very well mean is that the BLM closed the Dunes with out going through the proper procedures.
MORE BACKGROUND
Right after the final stipulation was signed by Judge Alsup back on March 20,2001. The law firm retained by ASA and San Diego Off Road Coalition contacted Mr. Paul Turcke. (Mr. Turcke is the attorney that represented SDORC and others in the original lawsuit.) Our firm suggested to Mr. Turcke to file this motion for clarification, Paul agreed and as a result Judge Alsup signed the amendment. Many people and attorney’s get credit for this amendment recently signed.
MORE TO COME
As information becomes public and when our Law Firm gives permission, I will relay what I can and as soon as possible. Be careful of what you read on these boards because this complex puzzle might be missing a piece or two. I’m sure all the best intensions are there however the direction of this case can change from day to day. Questions that any members have that I can speak to please post them and to the extent that I’m permitted too, I’ll bring you up to speed.
Sincerely
Mark Harms
ASA Board Member
------------------
"Make a difference not an excuse!"
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/glamisdunersforcleandunes
OBSESSED, Slappy wanna say dat that was a beautimus 'Freedom of Speech' piece, and Slappy gonna place it in da McScpbook. Slappy know you got da passion for Mother Glamis, and Slappy really appreciate it. OOOHHHH don't stop postin your views OBSESSED, they be Slappified! 
[This message has been edited by Slappy (edited 04-29-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Slappy (edited 04-29-2001).]
I have been to a ASA meeting. Thats all I can say about that. Not going out of my way for another. They say we shouldnt go here and we shouldnt go there."Comp-Drags" F that. I also feel they are kind of against younger generation duners."just what I felt" I dont need someone telling me who the what the where and how I should dune. Im a respectful duner and I go by most of BLM rules.
Big Had.... Please dont take my opinions to heart they are just my opinions and how I feel. ASA might be doing some good but I just dont need to be told how to dune.
Camp with us. I have my kid go get me beers too. We have a good group and are all respectable people.
[This message has been edited by Got_Sand (edited 04-29-2001).]
Big Had.... Please dont take my opinions to heart they are just my opinions and how I feel. ASA might be doing some good but I just dont need to be told how to dune.
Camp with us. I have my kid go get me beers too. We have a good group and are all respectable people.
[This message has been edited by Got_Sand (edited 04-29-2001).]
Whoha All
If the ASA isn't helping us get our sand back then yes bash them all, but if they are helping, and I believe they are, then why not help them in their efforts? If the highest rollers in the bussines of going to Glamis are putting their money into ASA then why question them when they try to make our side look better? You and I are little players in this game but I contribute to the ASA because they are doing the most to try to get Glamis back for us all. You can't do any better as of now.
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Show me a better sand box and I'll take my toys there. Till then, leave my Glamis alone!
Troy E. Kennedy
Oceanside, California
troykennedy@earthlink.net
If the ASA isn't helping us get our sand back then yes bash them all, but if they are helping, and I believe they are, then why not help them in their efforts? If the highest rollers in the bussines of going to Glamis are putting their money into ASA then why question them when they try to make our side look better? You and I are little players in this game but I contribute to the ASA because they are doing the most to try to get Glamis back for us all. You can't do any better as of now.
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Show me a better sand box and I'll take my toys there. Till then, leave my Glamis alone!
Troy E. Kennedy
Oceanside, California
troykennedy@earthlink.net
Another deep breath.....I will admit that the ASA is doing something to help with "our" dunes but if "their" doing it for just themselfs (not saying they are) will that mean us "lower-end duners" have to dune on the ASA rules? Um...I'm a resposable duner, adult, parent, husband, HUMAN!
In my opinion Rick and his gang are exactly like the "greens" we're all fighting, except one side uses the dunes as their "cause" to justify their lifes and the other is just trying to keep a place open to help all us duners to have a good life in the dunes.
Just my opinon
JR
In my opinion Rick and his gang are exactly like the "greens" we're all fighting, except one side uses the dunes as their "cause" to justify their lifes and the other is just trying to keep a place open to help all us duners to have a good life in the dunes.
Just my opinon
JR
Wait a minute, Jon. The ASA isn't making any rules that tell you what you can and can't do at Glamis. That is the BLM's responsibility. What is a lower end duner? We are all the same, brother. Just because I have a motorhome and am a veteran duner doesn't make me any better than you or anyone else. We all have opinions concerning what is good or bad at Glamis but that's all they are...opinions. For example, just because Dunegoon and I don't see eye to eye on anything has no bearing on his right to dune as he chooses, and I would expect the same consideration from him. We are all in this together, and by allowing our personal feelings to cloud our judgement, we only hurt ourselves. If we don't pull together, it just makes it harder to meet out goals. End of lecture 
Amen Oldtimer!
Hey Troy,
If the highest rollers in the business of going to glamis jumped off a cliff, would you?
-The Goon-
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There is more than one way to skin a cat, and it looks like the ASA is doing it with a spoon!
If the highest rollers in the business of going to glamis jumped off a cliff, would you?
-The Goon-
------------------
There is more than one way to skin a cat, and it looks like the ASA is doing it with a spoon!
Interesting thread!
Ok, in answer to the original posters questions...
"Is the ASA something for me?"
"Why do i read som much anti-ASA articles on this site?"
This is a big world with many different types of people who have many different types of opinions. It was my opinion that the opinions and ideas of many people were not being heard for one reason or another. There seemed to be a large group of duners that just didn't "fit-in" with the status-quo. This did not mean that there was a defection. Many of the people who post here are members of the ASA, but unlike on the other board, many of the posters here ARE NOT members of the ASA. That is their right. As will happen with most all groups the ASA has rubbed a few people the wrong way. People come here to express negative views of the ASA because they can. There is no organized opposition to the ASA, rather, what you see here is a completely open forum that encourages open thought and free speech. With open thought and free speech comes dissenting opinions.
This describes many of us quite well...
"but lets face it, some of us ‘square pegs’ don’t fit into their ‘round holes’."
My suggestion to you would be, Read about the ASA. Find out about all the good things they have done. Talk with members of the ASA. Do everything you can to learn as much as you can and then do what your heart and mind tells you to do.
Remember, the only reason you see negitive ASA posts here is because when people are unhappy with the ASA this is where they come. It does NOT mean that this site is Anti-ASA.
But i'm just a moderator. What do I I know?
Vor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
The Church of the Shifting Dunes
Ok, in answer to the original posters questions...
"Is the ASA something for me?"
"Why do i read som much anti-ASA articles on this site?"
This is a big world with many different types of people who have many different types of opinions. It was my opinion that the opinions and ideas of many people were not being heard for one reason or another. There seemed to be a large group of duners that just didn't "fit-in" with the status-quo. This did not mean that there was a defection. Many of the people who post here are members of the ASA, but unlike on the other board, many of the posters here ARE NOT members of the ASA. That is their right. As will happen with most all groups the ASA has rubbed a few people the wrong way. People come here to express negative views of the ASA because they can. There is no organized opposition to the ASA, rather, what you see here is a completely open forum that encourages open thought and free speech. With open thought and free speech comes dissenting opinions.
This describes many of us quite well...
"but lets face it, some of us ‘square pegs’ don’t fit into their ‘round holes’."
My suggestion to you would be, Read about the ASA. Find out about all the good things they have done. Talk with members of the ASA. Do everything you can to learn as much as you can and then do what your heart and mind tells you to do.
Remember, the only reason you see negitive ASA posts here is because when people are unhappy with the ASA this is where they come. It does NOT mean that this site is Anti-ASA.
But i'm just a moderator. What do I I know?
Vor
------------------
May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
The Church of the Shifting Dunes
DuneGoon's "posts" are beginning to get OLD!! Grow up a little bit for Christ's sake!How 'bout some cheese with that WHINE?
Big had, By all means join the ASA. The ASA is there working to get the dunes back for your enjoyment. I think the problem that we on this board have, is more with the politically correctness of the GOL's moderators and officers. They are afraid that everyone is watching what is said on their board, so they get heavy handed when someone they think get's out of line. If you read the GOL's board, it's all about money and how to save the dunes.
This board is not about money. We leave that to the ASA and most of us DO support them. We are more in tune with making friends and talking to people that have a true love of the sport of DUNING.
As for DUNEGOON, he is a part of this board. At times he may come across as very opinionated, but he has that right. Just as we all do. I would not take that right away from him or anyone else.
JUST EXERCISING MY FIRST AMENDMENT........
This board is not about money. We leave that to the ASA and most of us DO support them. We are more in tune with making friends and talking to people that have a true love of the sport of DUNING.
As for DUNEGOON, he is a part of this board. At times he may come across as very opinionated, but he has that right. Just as we all do. I would not take that right away from him or anyone else.
JUST EXERCISING MY FIRST AMENDMENT........
The ASA was formed to protect our right to ride in the dunes, that is it. If that means they think you shouldn't go to the drags or Comp, then that is their belief. That doesn't mean you can't go. I belong to the ASA because they are fighting for my right and my kids right to ride in the dunes.
The ASA was formed for selfish reasons, the board members and everyone that is a member wants to be riding in the dunes 20 years from now. That means making recommendations that some people don't like. I follow this board and ASA's. They are both useful. Make an educated decision, do your homework. Some just don't like being told anything, and some just need to grow up.
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Alex
The ASA was formed for selfish reasons, the board members and everyone that is a member wants to be riding in the dunes 20 years from now. That means making recommendations that some people don't like. I follow this board and ASA's. They are both useful. Make an educated decision, do your homework. Some just don't like being told anything, and some just need to grow up.
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Alex
What's with all this talk of growing up from everyone? You say something with a little edge to it and everyone says you need to grow up. You can gang up on me on the other board but it ain't gonna work over here, kids. Good try, though. If you can't differentiate between immaturity and cynicism, I truly pity you.
-The Goon-
-The Goon-
Freedom of speech you fool. and for your grown up comment exactly what I meant against younger generation. Im all for my kids to be able to have fun out at glamis for the years to come but I just letting everyone know that Im not going to get preached to at a ASA meeting that I shouldnt go to the Drags Or Comp or anywhere.
If the ASA is for you Great. They are doing good for the Glamis.
I wanna meet the person who wins that Funco car. Check there family tree and see who the board member is that is in there family.
If the ASA is for you Great. They are doing good for the Glamis.
I wanna meet the person who wins that Funco car. Check there family tree and see who the board member is that is in there family.
Got Sand
What evidence do you have that the Funco raffle is somehow rigged? Thats a pretty bold statement to make dont you think? I have followed the ASA from day one and I have seen no evidence that anything sneaky or unethical has ever happened. The ASA's books are open to public viewing to all that care to see them. The ASA may not be perfect, they may be politically correct, but I feel they saved us from a complete closure of Glamis and have helped unite the duning community to fight the Eco wackos.
What evidence do you have that the Funco raffle is somehow rigged? Thats a pretty bold statement to make dont you think? I have followed the ASA from day one and I have seen no evidence that anything sneaky or unethical has ever happened. The ASA's books are open to public viewing to all that care to see them. The ASA may not be perfect, they may be politically correct, but I feel they saved us from a complete closure of Glamis and have helped unite the duning community to fight the Eco wackos.
DuneGoon and Got Sand, who said we were talking about you? You guys are sure defensive. Did you do something that would make us think that you guys are immature?????? And if you guys were mature, you wouldn't bad mouth something just becuase it isn't your cup of tea. Your no different than the enviromentalist if you act like that. If you don't believe in the ASA and what they are doing, just keep your mouth shut on the topic. They aren't doing anything negative to impact the dunes. And by the way, if I win the Funco, I won't mind roosting you.
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Alex
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Alex
WOW!!! I love this site as much as the Glamisonline.org, maybe better. I just don't have the time to post here and there.
The ASA is a new organization in the earliest stages of life. I have had my post edited and deleted too. Yes it made me mad.
But I look at the long picture, my grandchildren dragging me out to Glamis for Thanksgiving Dinner 20 years from now!!!
I don't always agree with the ASA, but I'm glad someone stepped up before its all gone!!!
Jim
ASA Los Angeles County R.C.
Sanduners@aol.com
The ASA is a new organization in the earliest stages of life. I have had my post edited and deleted too. Yes it made me mad.
But I look at the long picture, my grandchildren dragging me out to Glamis for Thanksgiving Dinner 20 years from now!!!
I don't always agree with the ASA, but I'm glad someone stepped up before its all gone!!!
Jim
ASA Los Angeles County R.C.
Sanduners@aol.com
UUMMMM I wouldn't go as far as to say the contest is rigged. They are already going to make a killing on it, and they don't need the bad press they'd get if they got caught rigging it.
-The Goon-
-The Goon-
The Funco raffle is not rigged. I can't even buy a ticket because Funco advertises in my magazine. How fair is that? It doesn't seem fair to me, but I understand because if I won the Funco it would definitely "look" rigged.
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Doug Dixon
Editor
Sand Sports Magazine
ASA Supporter
[This message has been edited by KingGlamis (edited 05-02-2001).]
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Doug Dixon
Editor
Sand Sports Magazine
ASA Supporter
[This message has been edited by KingGlamis (edited 05-02-2001).]
The Funco raffle is not rigged.
That people might think it is rigged is the problem.
A symptom of distrust.
Vor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
The Church of the Shifting Dunes
That people might think it is rigged is the problem.
A symptom of distrust.
Vor
------------------
May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
The Church of the Shifting Dunes
Hi everyone.
I just wanted to point out that maybe the ASA isn't PERFECT but it is really the only group I have seen making any type of effort to fight the LEGAL side of this issue we are facing. If there is some other organization I am not aware of, by all means, let me know! ( of course I mean other than CORVA, and the others whose main focus isn't only the Glamis Dunes.)
Secondly, I am a member. I have given my time to help and I have met people who are spending all of their waking hours organizing/planning/working for the ASA, I wanted to give those people thanks, they are helping out tremendously, and those of you who believe the ASA is a crock of horse dukey well at least know that for the most part, most of these peoples intentions are good. That counts doesn't it?
Lastly, this is a board that praises our right of freedom of speech, and although you may not agree with someones opinion, can we all try and pay each other a little RESPECT!!
Stacy
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Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.
LOST COAST 4x4s
[This message has been edited by Stacy (edited 05-02-2001).]
I just wanted to point out that maybe the ASA isn't PERFECT but it is really the only group I have seen making any type of effort to fight the LEGAL side of this issue we are facing. If there is some other organization I am not aware of, by all means, let me know! ( of course I mean other than CORVA, and the others whose main focus isn't only the Glamis Dunes.)
Secondly, I am a member. I have given my time to help and I have met people who are spending all of their waking hours organizing/planning/working for the ASA, I wanted to give those people thanks, they are helping out tremendously, and those of you who believe the ASA is a crock of horse dukey well at least know that for the most part, most of these peoples intentions are good. That counts doesn't it?
Lastly, this is a board that praises our right of freedom of speech, and although you may not agree with someones opinion, can we all try and pay each other a little RESPECT!!
Stacy
------------------
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.
LOST COAST 4x4s
[This message has been edited by Stacy (edited 05-02-2001).]
Well said,
Alex,
Jim
Doug,
Brian, and
Stacey.
Add my 2 cents to the pot.
If the ASA wasn't fighting to keep Glamis open, then none of would be riding there.
Robbie
[This message has been edited by Robbie (edited 05-02-2001).]
Alex,
Jim
Doug,
Brian, and
Stacey.
Add my 2 cents to the pot.
If the ASA wasn't fighting to keep Glamis open, then none of would be riding there.
Robbie
[This message has been edited by Robbie (edited 05-02-2001).]
I DONT THINK STACY COULD HAVE SAID IT ANY BETTER! PEOPLE NEED TO GET TOGETHER AND FIGHT, NOT FIGHT EACHOTHER!
I have a question for all of you that are not ASA supporters. If you do not support what the ASA is doing, WHAT ARE "YOU" DOING TO KEEP THE DUNES OPEN?
[This message has been edited by KingGlamis (edited 05-03-2001).]
[This message has been edited by KingGlamis (edited 05-03-2001).]
I support other organizations such as the Blue Ribbon Coalition and CORVA. I also attend The Whyte's annual cleanup. Like my signature line says there is more than one way to skin a cat. You are a great example of the prevailing wisdom at the ASA... "It's our way or the highway".
-The Goon-
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There is more than one way to skin a cat, and it looks like the ASA is doing it with a spoon!
-The Goon-
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There is more than one way to skin a cat, and it looks like the ASA is doing it with a spoon!
Goon, why do you go on the attack???? Doug asks a simple question and I am sure he has no problem with your answer until you attack him by saying, "You are a great example of the prevailing wisdom at the ASA... "It's our way or the highway"." That is NOT the prevailing wisdom. Do your homework, and get to know the people!!!! Stop reinforcing your name, "Goon".
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Alex
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Alex
What are WE doing for Glamis?
Well, without THIS board and THIS group of people all of those ASA detractors, all of those who DON'T agree with "gimmee money, gimmee money", All those people who don't get along with the powers that be in the ASA would have no forum, no place to talk, no place to get new information.
Then, the only people who would get any info would be those that the ASA agree with. Which is a small percentage of the market.
The ASA feels that if you don't agree with each and every law at Glamis then you are not worthy. I don't agree with registration, Rangers, Flags, Helmets, parking fees... ect. So I'm not worthy of getting the message? No, I think not. EVERYONE needs to hear the message. EVERYONE needs to know where the closures are. A duner is a duner!
If I gave money to the ASA I wouldn't be able to go to Glamis. I have been saving for 2 years for a stupid engine for my Lo tech Lo travel standard buggy. I STILL DON'T HAVE ONE! The ASA ain't getting my money until I can DRIVE my CAR. What did I do instead of donating money? I've given TONS of time to educating and encouraging people about Glamis and off road riding! I have done my best to encourage the people that have AVOIDED the ASA to still stay active and post and keep up with all the info. I have shown people that there are ways of NOT being part of the problem that don't COST $$.
I HELPED TO GET OLDTIMER AND DUNEGOON TO QUIT ARGUING! Ha!
Look, we all have our OWN way of dealing with and helping out with the Glamis closures. The Closures are NOT the only issue. Some of us still don't believe in the parking fees. Some of us don't believe in flags on bikes.
Sometimes people come in here just to have FUN! That IS what Glamis is about isn't it?
What have we done? Does that mean that if we don't donate to the ASA then we ain't ****?
What's the slogan?
"If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem."
that is one of the ASA rallying cries.
The only thing is, the ASA is not the ONLY solution. They only THINK they are the only solution. So, in other words
"If you're not part of the ASA then you are part of the problem!"
That turns alot of people off.
I don't donate. I can't. What I HAVE done is sent MANY people to the ASA. I have ALSO supported MANY people who, like me, didn't get along with the ASA.
I felt insulted by your question. I am sure you didn't mean it that way but still... really..
What have I done for Glamis?
Come on!
Vor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
The Church of the Shifting Dunes
Well, without THIS board and THIS group of people all of those ASA detractors, all of those who DON'T agree with "gimmee money, gimmee money", All those people who don't get along with the powers that be in the ASA would have no forum, no place to talk, no place to get new information.
Then, the only people who would get any info would be those that the ASA agree with. Which is a small percentage of the market.
The ASA feels that if you don't agree with each and every law at Glamis then you are not worthy. I don't agree with registration, Rangers, Flags, Helmets, parking fees... ect. So I'm not worthy of getting the message? No, I think not. EVERYONE needs to hear the message. EVERYONE needs to know where the closures are. A duner is a duner!
If I gave money to the ASA I wouldn't be able to go to Glamis. I have been saving for 2 years for a stupid engine for my Lo tech Lo travel standard buggy. I STILL DON'T HAVE ONE! The ASA ain't getting my money until I can DRIVE my CAR. What did I do instead of donating money? I've given TONS of time to educating and encouraging people about Glamis and off road riding! I have done my best to encourage the people that have AVOIDED the ASA to still stay active and post and keep up with all the info. I have shown people that there are ways of NOT being part of the problem that don't COST $$.
I HELPED TO GET OLDTIMER AND DUNEGOON TO QUIT ARGUING! Ha!
Look, we all have our OWN way of dealing with and helping out with the Glamis closures. The Closures are NOT the only issue. Some of us still don't believe in the parking fees. Some of us don't believe in flags on bikes.
Sometimes people come in here just to have FUN! That IS what Glamis is about isn't it?
What have we done? Does that mean that if we don't donate to the ASA then we ain't ****?
What's the slogan?
"If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem."
that is one of the ASA rallying cries.
The only thing is, the ASA is not the ONLY solution. They only THINK they are the only solution. So, in other words
"If you're not part of the ASA then you are part of the problem!"
That turns alot of people off.
I don't donate. I can't. What I HAVE done is sent MANY people to the ASA. I have ALSO supported MANY people who, like me, didn't get along with the ASA.
I felt insulted by your question. I am sure you didn't mean it that way but still... really..
What have I done for Glamis?
Come on!
Vor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
The Church of the Shifting Dunes
Alx,
My previous reply was posted JUST before you got in on the subject.
You say it is just a simple question. Then Goon and I BOTH say that it is NOT a simple question. It is the HEART of what we find to be wrong in the ASA. You claim that "It's my way or the highway" is NOT the prevailing wisdom at the ASA yet both Goon and I said the same thing, at the same time!
If "it's the ASA way or the highway" Is NOT the prevailing wisdom then your message is not getting out correctly. 'Cause that's how I see it, that's how Goon sees it and that's how MANY people see it.
Do your own homework. Do you even know what OUR message is?
Our message is... EVERYONE is Welcome and there is no such thing as a BAD DUNER!
Vor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
The Church of the Shifting Dunes
My previous reply was posted JUST before you got in on the subject.
You say it is just a simple question. Then Goon and I BOTH say that it is NOT a simple question. It is the HEART of what we find to be wrong in the ASA. You claim that "It's my way or the highway" is NOT the prevailing wisdom at the ASA yet both Goon and I said the same thing, at the same time!
If "it's the ASA way or the highway" Is NOT the prevailing wisdom then your message is not getting out correctly. 'Cause that's how I see it, that's how Goon sees it and that's how MANY people see it.
Do your own homework. Do you even know what OUR message is?
Our message is... EVERYONE is Welcome and there is no such thing as a BAD DUNER!
Vor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
The Church of the Shifting Dunes
Well said VOR...
I do not wanna argue with any of you nor do I wanna put your beliefs down. How i feel about the ASA is my opinion. I honestly feel ASA is doing good for the most part. The way they INFORM us and SUGGEST to us what we should do to help may need a little work. AGAIN THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.
As for how do I help?
Good question. Im not made of money so I cant really help that way. Im sure I help in one way or another.....
I do not wanna argue with any of you nor do I wanna put your beliefs down. How i feel about the ASA is my opinion. I honestly feel ASA is doing good for the most part. The way they INFORM us and SUGGEST to us what we should do to help may need a little work. AGAIN THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.
As for how do I help?
Good question. Im not made of money so I cant really help that way. Im sure I help in one way or another.....
We should all slow down and take a deep breath. This bickering is senseless. The Goon and I are proof of that. We got nowhere, and solved nothing.
There is no simple answer, and both sides have strong points. The ASA site has a purpose, and so does this site. The ASA is "mainstream", this site is more wide open, and that's fine. What seems to be happening is that as we bounce from board to board, some of us get offended and start bashing each other. You can get away with more here, and that's fine. It's easy to sit at our monitors and compose a scathing retaliation, because we have the luxury of editing and reworking our post as much as we want to. I would doubt that many of us would say some of the stuff that has been written if you were standing face to face with the person you were talking to.
I am not singling anyone out. We all want the same thing. Just because some folks don't have money to give to the "cause", or won't donate because they don't agree with what is being done with the money, doesn't mean that they're not helping in some other way. Spreading the word, picking up trash, just being a responsible duner all counts in my book. The fight is with those who would keep us from the dunes, not with each other.
There is no simple answer, and both sides have strong points. The ASA site has a purpose, and so does this site. The ASA is "mainstream", this site is more wide open, and that's fine. What seems to be happening is that as we bounce from board to board, some of us get offended and start bashing each other. You can get away with more here, and that's fine. It's easy to sit at our monitors and compose a scathing retaliation, because we have the luxury of editing and reworking our post as much as we want to. I would doubt that many of us would say some of the stuff that has been written if you were standing face to face with the person you were talking to.
I am not singling anyone out. We all want the same thing. Just because some folks don't have money to give to the "cause", or won't donate because they don't agree with what is being done with the money, doesn't mean that they're not helping in some other way. Spreading the word, picking up trash, just being a responsible duner all counts in my book. The fight is with those who would keep us from the dunes, not with each other.
quote:
Originally posted by Voice of Reason:
What's the slogan?
"If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem."
that is one of the ASA rallying cries.
The only thing is, the ASA is not the ONLY solution. They only THINK they are the only solution. So, in other words
"If you're not part of the ASA then you are part of the problem!"
That turns alot of people off.
Vor
[/B]
VOR,
That Slogan that you mention:
I believe it is just part of the signiture of one of the posters on the ASA/GOL message board and not an actual slogan of the ASA. (someone correct me if I am wrong).
That would be the same as someone saying that everything posted in this forum is what you believe in, isnt it?
I've actually been waiting for a chance to say how I feel about this matter, so here it goes. I am a member of the ASA. I have not been able to donate money, because I have been unemployed for 2 and a half of the last four months. I have however been a member for over a year. The only thing that I ever have heard from the ASA is the occasional e-mail asking me for a donation. My question is, what about all of the information that joining the ASA was supposed to gain me access to? I haven't seen it. What about updates on the counting of the plants? I haven't seen it. Then I was informed that the ASA had a problem with their computers, and I would have to reapply, of course with a donation. I did. Since then, I have not heard one word from the ASA. The information that I receive about things happening in Glamis, I get here on the board. Information about scheduled clean-ups, I get here on the board. As far as I'm concerned, I would rather give my money where it is going to do something that I can see!!!!!!!!! You say that Goon and Vor haven't done anything for Glamis, I say "YOU" haven't done anything for Glamis!!!!
Sha
Sha
Wow, guess I got some attention with that one. That question was not meant to say that any one person IS NOT doing anything to help Glamis, just simply to plant a seed in everyone's head. It worked. As for the whole ASA thing, I think a lot of you take it way to seriously. The ASA preaches "the right thing" because as a group in the public (and enviros) eye they have to. But out at the dunes the ASA members are just as much normal duners as everyone else. They don't follow every letter of the law ... but they're required to preach it so we get as little bad press as possible. And just for the record, Blue Ribbon and CORVA preach the exact same stuff, and all three groups are working together. "The ASA way or the highway." ??? What do you expect them to say, "If you feel like it join our group and we might do something positive?" Or to send a strong message that they are a serious organization that is going to make a difference. Whatever... I support the ASA, but that's my choice. I'm not putting down anyone that chooses not to support the ASA, I just can't believe so many people are so against them.
Doug
Doug
Don't misunderstand us Doug, we are not by any means against the ASA, anymore than they are against our board. I am still a member and will remain a member.
Sha
Sha
VOR, I agree with your approach just fine. I am part of the ASA and I haven't donated any money in 6 months, but that isn't the point of this thread. Doug simply asked what you are doing to help the dunes(not the ASA)?? That means if you're going to cleanups, you are doing more than most. Running this board is for eduction, that is good. My problem is that some people think it is cool to bash the ASA. We are all duners, and more importantly we don't want to see our riding areas closed.
I have been riding motorcycles since I was 5 yr old. During that time, many of my favorite riding places(Jawbone Canyon, Kennedy Meadows, Octillo Wells, El Mirage, and now Glamis) have had closures. The ASA was formed almost a year ago and has made great strides to help the dunes. The ASA didn't make the laws that say you must wear a helmet, a flag, and pay to park. Those laws were in affect before the ASA was established. They are just preaching what the law says, no different than a teacher or parent. Did we listen to everything our teachers and parents told us, no way. The point, in my mind, is that we all need to help keep the dunes ours. If that means that you leave your camp cleaner than when you arrived, great. Everybody can't do the same, and I wouldn't want everyone to do the same, for each his own.
Everybody just do something to help.
Oh, by the way, do you think all ASA member follow all the rules???? I go to the drags, once in awhile to Comp, I carry beer in my rail, and even drink it on occasion, I think we might even leave our radio on past 10pm sometimes, and I have seen an ASA member with a beer bottle in the dunes. Don't take everything as a literal translation. We are there having fun, also.
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Alex
[This message has been edited by alxcook (edited 05-03-2001).]
[This message has been edited by alxcook (edited 05-03-2001).]
[This message has been edited by alxcook (edited 05-03-2001).]
I have been riding motorcycles since I was 5 yr old. During that time, many of my favorite riding places(Jawbone Canyon, Kennedy Meadows, Octillo Wells, El Mirage, and now Glamis) have had closures. The ASA was formed almost a year ago and has made great strides to help the dunes. The ASA didn't make the laws that say you must wear a helmet, a flag, and pay to park. Those laws were in affect before the ASA was established. They are just preaching what the law says, no different than a teacher or parent. Did we listen to everything our teachers and parents told us, no way. The point, in my mind, is that we all need to help keep the dunes ours. If that means that you leave your camp cleaner than when you arrived, great. Everybody can't do the same, and I wouldn't want everyone to do the same, for each his own.
Everybody just do something to help.
Oh, by the way, do you think all ASA member follow all the rules???? I go to the drags, once in awhile to Comp, I carry beer in my rail, and even drink it on occasion, I think we might even leave our radio on past 10pm sometimes, and I have seen an ASA member with a beer bottle in the dunes. Don't take everything as a literal translation. We are there having fun, also.
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Alex
[This message has been edited by alxcook (edited 05-03-2001).]
[This message has been edited by alxcook (edited 05-03-2001).]
[This message has been edited by alxcook (edited 05-03-2001).]
I'm a strong believer in practicing what you preach. Someone that tells others not to do something and then turns around and does it himself is the very definition of hypocricy.
-The Goon-
I ain't claiming to be perfect, and I am not going to put others down for not being perfect. (like THEY do)
[This message has been edited by DuneGoon (edited 05-03-2001).]
-The Goon-
I ain't claiming to be perfect, and I am not going to put others down for not being perfect. (like THEY do)
[This message has been edited by DuneGoon (edited 05-03-2001).]
You are right, Robbie. Some people just have to bash the ASA. That's their perogotive.
Just like it is your perogative to defend them.
I think Dougs question "What have you done for Glamis?" hit a chord with many people. Many people see that question as an insult, as in, "Who are you to question what I've done in favor of my sport"
Whether he meant it that way or not, it is a question/message many of us are just sick of hearing.
Typical thread...
Do you donate to the ASA?
NO.
Well then, what ARE you doing for the dunes?
As in if you don't donate to the ASA then what else could you possibly be doing that could help as much as the ASA has helped.
Let me ask you this...
If a person becomes unable to identify with the ASA for whatever reason... Should they QUIT going to Glamis?
You find people who post messages against the ASA here on this board because this is where people, who are for whatever reason, unhappy with the board at the ASA website come to be with other duners on the internet.
People come here to meet new people, to talk about Glamis, to read poems and to learn about the dunes from Slappy.
This particular subject hardly EVER comes up. It's just not that important. Some people over here feel more comfortable posting over here. I myself have felt many times in the past that there didn't seem to be a place for me in the ASA. I've had some heated arguments with many of you. Not many people agree with my stand on the subject of Rangers or on SELECTIVE enforcement, or on parking permits. I've been told, on the ASA board that if I don't pay to park then I am part of the problem! I've been told that If I have a problem with registration checkpoints then I must be breaking the law.
I understand that the ASA is a highly visible organazation that has rules that must be followed. I did not want to follow those rules. That is my choice. Others have done the same. This does not mean that we don't believe in the ASA or that we don't appreciate what the ASA has done. It just means that we want a place to speak our mind without hearing... "you can't say that.. it might get used against us in court."
Some of us think that giving up our freedom of speach is WORSE than loosing Glamis.
People can come here and say whatever they want. If that means that they want to say something negative about the ASA then so be it. I try, whenever I am able, to show to those people that the ASA is not bad. I defend the ASA whenever I need to.
This original thread was started by BigHad. The question was why do some people on this site not like the ASA. A few people answered that question as truethfully as they could. That's all. To think the ASA is going to please "All of the people, all of the time" is a fantasy.
Our site is for ALL. Even the ditch diggers and the Drag roosters. Even the small truck owners and the underage drinkers. Even the pot smokers and the loud music folks. Families and single folks. Teenagers and old guys! EVERYONE! That means even the folks who don't like the ASA!
Vor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
www.ShiftingDunes.com The Church of the Shifting Dunes
[This message has been edited by Voice of Reason (edited 05-03-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Voice of Reason (edited 05-03-2001).]
Just like it is your perogative to defend them.
I think Dougs question "What have you done for Glamis?" hit a chord with many people. Many people see that question as an insult, as in, "Who are you to question what I've done in favor of my sport"
Whether he meant it that way or not, it is a question/message many of us are just sick of hearing.
Typical thread...
Do you donate to the ASA?
NO.
Well then, what ARE you doing for the dunes?
As in if you don't donate to the ASA then what else could you possibly be doing that could help as much as the ASA has helped.
Let me ask you this...
If a person becomes unable to identify with the ASA for whatever reason... Should they QUIT going to Glamis?
You find people who post messages against the ASA here on this board because this is where people, who are for whatever reason, unhappy with the board at the ASA website come to be with other duners on the internet.
People come here to meet new people, to talk about Glamis, to read poems and to learn about the dunes from Slappy.
This particular subject hardly EVER comes up. It's just not that important. Some people over here feel more comfortable posting over here. I myself have felt many times in the past that there didn't seem to be a place for me in the ASA. I've had some heated arguments with many of you. Not many people agree with my stand on the subject of Rangers or on SELECTIVE enforcement, or on parking permits. I've been told, on the ASA board that if I don't pay to park then I am part of the problem! I've been told that If I have a problem with registration checkpoints then I must be breaking the law.
I understand that the ASA is a highly visible organazation that has rules that must be followed. I did not want to follow those rules. That is my choice. Others have done the same. This does not mean that we don't believe in the ASA or that we don't appreciate what the ASA has done. It just means that we want a place to speak our mind without hearing... "you can't say that.. it might get used against us in court."
Some of us think that giving up our freedom of speach is WORSE than loosing Glamis.
People can come here and say whatever they want. If that means that they want to say something negative about the ASA then so be it. I try, whenever I am able, to show to those people that the ASA is not bad. I defend the ASA whenever I need to.
This original thread was started by BigHad. The question was why do some people on this site not like the ASA. A few people answered that question as truethfully as they could. That's all. To think the ASA is going to please "All of the people, all of the time" is a fantasy.
Our site is for ALL. Even the ditch diggers and the Drag roosters. Even the small truck owners and the underage drinkers. Even the pot smokers and the loud music folks. Families and single folks. Teenagers and old guys! EVERYONE! That means even the folks who don't like the ASA!
Vor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
www.ShiftingDunes.com The Church of the Shifting Dunes
[This message has been edited by Voice of Reason (edited 05-03-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Voice of Reason (edited 05-03-2001).]
you tell them vor. the one thing i find to be a problem with the asa is that when an organization reaches there size it becomes highley poltical. i work in that every day i dont want it for my hobby. i myself agree with many of the things the asa does but i dont want a poltical enviroment in my free time . right or wrong that is my choice and in case any one foregot we have that choice. people are being very childish about the whole subject everyone has there right to choose if they want to be an active member of the asa. we all have a love of one thing that has brought everyone together, instead of worring about the he said she said bull**** each person do what they feel suits them best. next thing i am going to read is someone saying that because you only can afford to give five dollars and the millionare next to you gives five thousand that he loves glamis more, GROW UP
When I read
"What have you done for Glamis?"
I didn't take it in the same way some of the others took it. To me it asked, what have you done to HELP keep Glamis open. There are many people that post here as well as many people that use Glamis who have the attitude ... That doesn't apply to me, I'll sit back and let the other guys do it. I only have time to reap the rewards, I don't have time to help. Is the ASA the best thing out there? No, I sure can't say that, but when it came time for someone to step up to the plate and not allow us all to be pushed out of Glamis ... ASA was there.
I have a few friends that chatted with an ASA Rep while at Glamis a few months ago. This Rep told them if they want to be part of the ASA they can't drink alcohol while at the dunes, they can't play music after dark, they must have a flag on their bikes, they must clean up other camps before they leave or they shouldn't consider joining. I gotta tell ya, that blew my mind. I support what the ASA is doing in court and I will donate both time and money for that effort. I abide by the the code of do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I leave a clean camp. I don't play loud music. I always have a flag on my buggy. I did that BEFORE there was an ASA.
I guess I got off from the subject I began with, but I didn't take what was said as a slam at anyone, I believe he was asking what have we done to keep Glamis open.
"What have you done for Glamis?"
I didn't take it in the same way some of the others took it. To me it asked, what have you done to HELP keep Glamis open. There are many people that post here as well as many people that use Glamis who have the attitude ... That doesn't apply to me, I'll sit back and let the other guys do it. I only have time to reap the rewards, I don't have time to help. Is the ASA the best thing out there? No, I sure can't say that, but when it came time for someone to step up to the plate and not allow us all to be pushed out of Glamis ... ASA was there.
I have a few friends that chatted with an ASA Rep while at Glamis a few months ago. This Rep told them if they want to be part of the ASA they can't drink alcohol while at the dunes, they can't play music after dark, they must have a flag on their bikes, they must clean up other camps before they leave or they shouldn't consider joining. I gotta tell ya, that blew my mind. I support what the ASA is doing in court and I will donate both time and money for that effort. I abide by the the code of do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I leave a clean camp. I don't play loud music. I always have a flag on my buggy. I did that BEFORE there was an ASA.
I guess I got off from the subject I began with, but I didn't take what was said as a slam at anyone, I believe he was asking what have we done to keep Glamis open.
sha,
Ive gotten numerous emails from the ASA with info about what has been going on, if you havent gotten any look into why before you chastise the ASA. You must realize that the enviro wackos are monitoring these boards also so alot of the info CANT be just handed out in mass emails. The ASA spent big money on the counting of the plants and they cant afford to let out the amount of plants found because the enviro could use it against us.
VOR,
The ASA has always been FREE to join. Always. Yes they ask for donations. You dont have to give a dime to belong to the ASA. The fee program, helmet laws, flags ect has nothing to do with the ASA. Your fight is with the BLM and the TRT.
Ive gotten numerous emails from the ASA with info about what has been going on, if you havent gotten any look into why before you chastise the ASA. You must realize that the enviro wackos are monitoring these boards also so alot of the info CANT be just handed out in mass emails. The ASA spent big money on the counting of the plants and they cant afford to let out the amount of plants found because the enviro could use it against us.
VOR,
The ASA has always been FREE to join. Always. Yes they ask for donations. You dont have to give a dime to belong to the ASA. The fee program, helmet laws, flags ect has nothing to do with the ASA. Your fight is with the BLM and the TRT.
I would like to talk to the "rep" that allegedly said that. I have been a member of the ASA since the beginning, and I am now an area "rep" and no one from the ASA has EVER told me anything like that. I drink, I have a cooler rack, and I'm sure as hell not perfect. I am going to ask around about this, because that really bothers me, If it's true. Those sentiments are more likely a personal point of view of that particular rep than any ASA "official" stance. I will let you know what I find out.
Frankie
Frankie
Someone asked "what have we done for glamis"? My answer is... we clean up after are selves, we try to show that duning is a FUN sport(not just some a-holes ripping up the place)and we don't cause trouble.
Last Easter when the ditch diggers were attempting to dig a trench, we were there to stop them. For every shevel full of sand they dug, we kicked in 3 times as much. They got the hint that no trenches would be dug that night. NO fights, NO confrontations, just a mutual understanding, NO TRENCHES. And WHERE was the ASA?
We don't have alot of money ,but we do what we can. We DO do our part by showing our dune ethics and act responsibly.
Last Easter when the ditch diggers were attempting to dig a trench, we were there to stop them. For every shevel full of sand they dug, we kicked in 3 times as much. They got the hint that no trenches would be dug that night. NO fights, NO confrontations, just a mutual understanding, NO TRENCHES. And WHERE was the ASA?
We don't have alot of money ,but we do what we can. We DO do our part by showing our dune ethics and act responsibly.
I do not follow all the rules, I admit it.
Let's remember, the reason why some members of the ASA try and preach the " FOLLOW THE RULES OR GET OUT " ethic is partly because the extreme environmentalists who are seeking to close down our favorite spot will use the law breaking against us. Do you all really think most of these people would be preaching this if Glamis wasn't being threatened? I don't know, but I doubt it.
Our enemies are watching this board, they watch the ASA board, they watch us in the dunes too! They are just waiting for the chance to get all of the slip ups and law breaking on tape and use it against us. The CBD had the law enforcement report from TG2000 posted on their website, this isn't a joke. Is the ASA so bad for at least trying to prevent that from happening, for trying to make sure our enemies have less ammunition?
Stacy
------------------
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.
LOST COAST 4x4s
Let's remember, the reason why some members of the ASA try and preach the " FOLLOW THE RULES OR GET OUT " ethic is partly because the extreme environmentalists who are seeking to close down our favorite spot will use the law breaking against us. Do you all really think most of these people would be preaching this if Glamis wasn't being threatened? I don't know, but I doubt it.
Our enemies are watching this board, they watch the ASA board, they watch us in the dunes too! They are just waiting for the chance to get all of the slip ups and law breaking on tape and use it against us. The CBD had the law enforcement report from TG2000 posted on their website, this isn't a joke. Is the ASA so bad for at least trying to prevent that from happening, for trying to make sure our enemies have less ammunition?
Stacy
------------------
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.
LOST COAST 4x4s
I've got loads to add to this but I really don't have the time to get involved right now.
I just have one thing to toss into the fire.
As someone who has given and continues to give a lot of my free time to the ASA to help fight to keep the dunes open this type of discussion really makes it tough. It's hard to fight for people who mock and bad mouth you while you're standing up for their rights. And that's what it all comes down to, the ONLY purpose of the ASA is to keep the dunes open for everyone. They are also the ONLY group with this as their singular purpose.
What has the ASA done to make you enjoy the dunes less?
Whip laws, checkpoints, and selective enforcement are problems with the BLM which have existed since before the ASA. However the ASA has made great strides in opening chanels of communication between the duning public and the BLM to try and help these situations...this will take time.
Advocating respect for the law is not only common sense it's a great way to help change the negative image the general public has of our sport. Showing that we have respect for the laws is the only way we can expect to use the law to help in our fight. I have NEVER heard from anyone in the ASA who preaches mandatory 100% compliance with all regulations as a requirement of membership.
As for updates and the ASA staying in touch. This is a very sensitive fight. The ASA may not send out weekly e-mails with information on what's going on but they do post what they can when they can on their website. There are also action alerts which come out on a regular basis.
When the ASA restarted their database there was NO requirement to pay to rejoin. There may have been a request for donations but there has never been any requirement. There are still problems with the membership database and a number of us are working very hard to correct them. Many people gave incorret e-mail addresses and many more aren't even on-line. With more than 20,000 members this is no small task.
As for the "what have you done" comments. I admit it may sound "all high and mighty" but there is some truth to it. Thousands of people go to the dunes every year but only a small percentage of them are actively working to make sure that all of them can continute to visit. If you're throwing stones at somone helping you don't be surprised if they catch a few and lob them back at you.
I have not donated a single dollar to the ASA. Unless you count the money I spent to buy myself a T-shirt from them. I was offered compensation for some of the work I have done for the ASA in the past and told them thanks but I'd feel bad taking it. If they do decide to give me anything regardless I will probably give most of it right back. (even if it means not getting my rail running) Why? Simple - I belive they are our best bet for keeping the dunes open.
Again, I am just a duner who has more time than money and wants to be able to someday visit the places I bought a rail to get to, I am NOT any type of official voice for the ASA.
One final story since this is already so much longer than I had planed on.
I got a call from Vince a few months ago just after he left a meeting with the BLM saying "Hey can you whip up a poll for the website so we can find out if most duners would support closing the drags if it ment keeping the rest of the dunes open". Before I could even get a full reply to him I got an e-mail from Vince saying "Scrap that poll idea. After a few seconds of thought the board decided that even if most duners would support closing the drags it would still be against the ASA's posistion of fighting to keep land open". They ASA may recomend to anyone who asks that they avoid the drags for a number of reasons but being an ASA member does not mean you can not go to the drags.
Let's stop throwing rocks at each other and start aiming them at our enemies instead. If everyone who posted in this thread spent half that much time attacking the environmental industry we wouldn't be in this posistion in the first place.
[START EDIT]
I had to edit this to fix the word Sc so it would display properly. I find it slightly ironic that on a board which goes on and on about free speach I have to cheat the language filter to post a perfectally legitimate word. After all it's only human nature to try to figure out that the **** in S**** is for crap. Oops, sorry hope no one takes any offense I'll be more serious in the future and stop blowing off steam like this.
[END EDIT]
[This message has been edited by jhitesma (edited 05-03-2001).]
I just have one thing to toss into the fire.
As someone who has given and continues to give a lot of my free time to the ASA to help fight to keep the dunes open this type of discussion really makes it tough. It's hard to fight for people who mock and bad mouth you while you're standing up for their rights. And that's what it all comes down to, the ONLY purpose of the ASA is to keep the dunes open for everyone. They are also the ONLY group with this as their singular purpose.
What has the ASA done to make you enjoy the dunes less?
Whip laws, checkpoints, and selective enforcement are problems with the BLM which have existed since before the ASA. However the ASA has made great strides in opening chanels of communication between the duning public and the BLM to try and help these situations...this will take time.
Advocating respect for the law is not only common sense it's a great way to help change the negative image the general public has of our sport. Showing that we have respect for the laws is the only way we can expect to use the law to help in our fight. I have NEVER heard from anyone in the ASA who preaches mandatory 100% compliance with all regulations as a requirement of membership.
As for updates and the ASA staying in touch. This is a very sensitive fight. The ASA may not send out weekly e-mails with information on what's going on but they do post what they can when they can on their website. There are also action alerts which come out on a regular basis.
When the ASA restarted their database there was NO requirement to pay to rejoin. There may have been a request for donations but there has never been any requirement. There are still problems with the membership database and a number of us are working very hard to correct them. Many people gave incorret e-mail addresses and many more aren't even on-line. With more than 20,000 members this is no small task.
As for the "what have you done" comments. I admit it may sound "all high and mighty" but there is some truth to it. Thousands of people go to the dunes every year but only a small percentage of them are actively working to make sure that all of them can continute to visit. If you're throwing stones at somone helping you don't be surprised if they catch a few and lob them back at you.
I have not donated a single dollar to the ASA. Unless you count the money I spent to buy myself a T-shirt from them. I was offered compensation for some of the work I have done for the ASA in the past and told them thanks but I'd feel bad taking it. If they do decide to give me anything regardless I will probably give most of it right back. (even if it means not getting my rail running) Why? Simple - I belive they are our best bet for keeping the dunes open.
Again, I am just a duner who has more time than money and wants to be able to someday visit the places I bought a rail to get to, I am NOT any type of official voice for the ASA.
One final story since this is already so much longer than I had planed on.
I got a call from Vince a few months ago just after he left a meeting with the BLM saying "Hey can you whip up a poll for the website so we can find out if most duners would support closing the drags if it ment keeping the rest of the dunes open". Before I could even get a full reply to him I got an e-mail from Vince saying "Scrap that poll idea. After a few seconds of thought the board decided that even if most duners would support closing the drags it would still be against the ASA's posistion of fighting to keep land open". They ASA may recomend to anyone who asks that they avoid the drags for a number of reasons but being an ASA member does not mean you can not go to the drags.
Let's stop throwing rocks at each other and start aiming them at our enemies instead. If everyone who posted in this thread spent half that much time attacking the environmental industry we wouldn't be in this posistion in the first place.
[START EDIT]
I had to edit this to fix the word Sc so it would display properly. I find it slightly ironic that on a board which goes on and on about free speach I have to cheat the language filter to post a perfectally legitimate word. After all it's only human nature to try to figure out that the **** in S**** is for crap. Oops, sorry
hope no one takes any offense I'll be more serious in the future and stop blowing off steam like this.[END EDIT]
[This message has been edited by jhitesma (edited 05-03-2001).]
Thank you Stacy and Jason, very well said.
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