There has been lots of talk about fixing this problem area or taking care of those problem people...

I'd really like to know.. what do YOU consider to be the "Problem" at Glamis... What has affected YOU?

Vor

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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
ShiftingDunes.com

The problem is that once "big brother" sees that we the people are having fun at their expense, on their property, they have to shut us down. How can "big brother" let us have that much fun without making some money off of us. They have bigger and better things to worry about, I know they do. I don't remember any problems till the "regulators" stepped in. Do you??

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AMIGOS SO. CAL.

Well you ask what has effected me. To be honest I mind my own and I do what I want and abide by the rules. So the only think that really has effected me, I would say the closures where once in awhile I would ride.

Sure there can be so many issues. People can let loose and party there a$$ off, but if they just kept the dunes clean then the greenies wouldn't have such a big issue. Trash is one of the major problems anywhere that is fun. Snow, water, sand, forest, anything that is recreational. I don't get it, people will wipe their own a$$, but cant pick up their own beer can.

The crazies will always be around just need to calm them down a tad, thats all. Sometimes they're fun to watch.

[This message has been edited by Kennie (edited 07-19-2001).]

My beef is with the control the government wants over glamis. Have any of you been to the dunes in oregon? Fun place but the rules, come on. No bikes over 93dbA, no camping in the dunes unless you have a pass, no were can you ride for free, in a lot of spots you unload in a paved parking lot and more stupid stuff like that. Now, glamis is starting to turn into that sort of thing. I know the place is popular right now and crowds grow every year so we need the rangers out there. I am glad the rangers are there and even though I don't agree with some of their policies (or what they spend their money on) I do respect them. The problem I have is the money machines, I know it is not much but it is in my mind, a sign of things to come. My favorite thing about the desert is just pulling up to a spot, taking a quick look around, unloading and calling it home for the next couple of days. Unfortunatlly the government gets dollor signs its eyes when it picks up on how many people are doing this. Now everyone is crying for better bathrooms, more established camping spots and so on. I would rather take a dump behind a bush than pay $6 bucks a night for a campground. I say to hell with that. Keep the place undeveloped and open. Why? Well, when the government builds camp grounds with the money from the machines they will say that they need maintanince, so who floats that bill? You and I, of course. Just look at Yosemite. Goverment moved in to make money (they call it "preserving") and now you can't even take a p!ss with out paying some one. So back to the topic, I think the problem is the government, not the crazies (yes they are annoing but just don't pay attention to them) nor the over-crowding (that will fade when this whole want-to-be white trash trend has passed). I say let us have the dunes with out so much regulation, let us all kill ourselves as the sierra club would have us believe, most of all just let us be.

[This message has been edited by Motoholics (edited 07-19-2001).]

What has affected me the most: CLOSURES. By far.

Don't know if this is what your looking for Brian. I paid just under $13,000 in taxes last year alone. My tax money should have gone to help Glamis. A little of it should have anyway. Now, I have to pay an extra $30 a year to enjoy something that I am already paying for! That SUCKS!! Ok, I'm finally alright with that now that I know they will use the funds to improve the restrooms and maybe buy a sand rake or for dust abatement and they spring the buggy on me! I am dead set against that expensive buggy. Yes, it may help to get the rangers somewhere faster and yes, they need a buggy but when I saw a line of 9 Explorers going into G last year at around $50,000 a pop, I new that the BLM is quite rich enough without my "parking fee". I don't hate the honest rangers but the politics I can't stand!

When it comes to the parking money. I thought it was to be used for thing like, trash bens and cleaning up the dunes. A water truck to keep the dust down any repairs to the bathrooms and so on. Not to supplement the BLM's budget. witch now is what it's used for.
Nothing has changed. the dust is still bad on big weekends. the trash is pick up be the offroad clubs, like the ASA. The bad element is still taking over comp.
I would like to see these problems taken care of.

I know I have brought this up before, But after going over it in my mind, I wonder if these people are like they are because they feel the need to controll what they feel is being taken away from them. The people I have the biggest gripe about are... "THE ROPE PEOPLE!

JonRyder

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Damage INC

Problems at G? How many trucks were torched by the punks last year? I saw at least three or four. Want to look at any of my pictures of G from the 70s and 80s? Less than half the amount of trash out there and there weren't organized cleanups like we have now. Sure, WE can ignore the truck torching and the trash, but the enviros and the Government sure won't. That's my point. I want Glamis to stay open, at any cost. Times have changed. If this means we need to clean up the act of some punks to get a decent image back, then I'm for it. The punks don't affect me because I ride in the DUNES, they don't. But I will sure as hell be p!ssed off if a group of these brainless no-duning idiots does something that gets OUR dunes closed.
Doug

This might sound weird but, Is there really a problem at Glamis? When did the problems start? Like others have posted, I too go out there pay my camping fees, find a spot, unload my stuff, set up camp, top off the toys, go for a ride, come back, eat something, go back out, or, start a camp fire, have some beers, talk with my friends, go to bed(pass out), wake up in the morning and ride some more.

Do I go out on busy weekend? No
There's alot of bad neighborhoods in my city, do I hang out in em? NO
Do I like to have my 11 year old daughter see what Glamis is like now compared to 10-15-20 years ago? NO.
Do I like to spend the extra money to send her to private school because I don't like what public school has to offer? NO

I don't like to have to worry what she's watching on TV either but, I know it's just how things are now.

I do what I can, take care of my own, and remeber the good ole'days.

JonRyder

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Damage INC

Most of the people who go to Glamis arn't the problem. For those who avoid busy weekends, like JonRyder, they may not realize the impact three busy weekends a year have on the dunes.

These are the weekends where our sport's enemies are out watching for any little incident to inflame into a reason to close ALL the dunes to OHV activity 365 DAYS A YEAR! That is why EVERYONE must be concerned with the issue.

We either join together and make a stand against the 'rowdies' or we will stay on our own and lose the dunes.

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Tim Wight
Mesa, AZ.
Protect your right to ride in the dunes, join the:
American Sand Association
www.americansandassociation.org

If you don't mount a whip, where will you put your checkered flag?

Check this web site out: http://responsiblerecreation.policy.net/

The thing that affects me the most would have to be the closures. But I don't go out there much anymore anyway. I really don't think there is a "problem" in the dunes except for the... da da da... "BIG WEEKENDS". Really, I enjoy off weekends more. I go on the big weekends, but spend my nights in Camp. (Except the couple of times I went to comp with the gathering and new years).

I agree with Ben though. I don't like that they bought a really expensive buggie and have all nice new trucks. Was it needed? I don't think that our monies should go to better bathrooms or dust abatement... The dust machines would be a waste of money.

Look, you go to Glamis to get away from it all, ride the hell out of your bike or buggy, have a few cold ones, enjoy some good BBQ and a fire and go to the restroom behind a bush. You shouldn't go out there expecting ANYTHING from the BLM except law enforcement and protection (which we seldom get)

Oh well, I sure hope we get to keep our riding area.

I think the lure of Glamis for some is the feeling of anarchy, which is how comp or even the sand drags can get. These are easily accessed areas, you don't really even need a bike to get there. I don't go to be rebellious or mess with anybody's stuff. That's the problem I have. Don't destroy or steal someone's ride, what's the point? I only go on I guess 2 of the major 3. Thanksgiving and Presidents. I don't mind the women showing their tits. You can't stop it, and why would you want to? But I wonder what women who don't do that think about it? Is it a problem? Does it stir up the crowd and make them rowdy? I've seen guys get their a$$ beat because they were too drunk and thought they would try to cop a feel on someone's woman. Are the women doing this making things worse? REACTION.

KS

Hey Tim,
Can you define "Rowdies" for me?
Do you mean Lawbreakers? or BAD lawbreakers?
Drunks? Pot heads?

Just what is a rowdie, who gets to decide just who IS a rowdie? And when did it become illegal to BE rowdie?

Vor

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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
ShiftingDunes.com

About the tit showin...

I don't mind it, HOWEVER, I know tons of women who HATE it.

I have seen people intoxicated and trying to grab, undress, heck- even rape, the girls before which sucks. But, if you are going to flash in front of a bunch of drunkards what do you expect.

I prefer the safety of my vehicle. Heh Heh

Stacy

1. The closure.

2. The punks.

3. The closure.

4. People that don't realize that "freedom isn't free."

5. The closure.

6. People that want Glamis to be free from any rules or regulations because it ****es them off when someone dares to expect them to show some consideration for other people.

7. The closure.

The closure has also had some unintended benefits...we are now wide awake, more informed, more united, we know who the enemy is, and we are fighting to get back what we had taken from us.

If the demo fees **** you off, get over it. They are here and if I pay, so should you. Spare me the "too many taxes" ****. ***** about the price of gas and utilities...

If you don't like how the TRT or the ASA is doing things, go to one of the meetings and make yourself heard.

If you aren't doing your part to fight this closure, don't ***** about how the ones that are doing your share are handling things.

There is no "in crowd" in the ASA...there are only people like you and me...the only difference may be that some of them are more informed, because they are working their asses off for all of us...even those of you that dissagree with how and what they are doing in your behalf.


I feel better now!!

Frankie

Well put Frankie. 100%

You be feelin better now Mr. Oldtimer? Well, Slappy know da McScrappbook be feelin much better now to. Very nice .

Thanks. I just felt like letting off a little steam!!

VOR, Although it may look like it, I wasn't aiming this at you, or anyone in particular.

Slappy, now that you're going to be a published icon of the dunes, don't forget the "little people"...now more than ever, we all need your Mcslappified "pearls of wisdom" to guide us and inlighten us through the dark days ahead!!

Frankie

Yes, well put Frankie. However, to add is all the people who trash or dunes. In addition, the ones that make it unsafe for everyone else weather during the day or at night. Like others have said, yes 10-15-20 years ago things were different then they are now. Why can't it still be like that? Yes I know times have changed and more people will come, but that does not mean that we can not educate them as well. We all need to work together for one goal weather we agree or disagree on all the other issues, and that is to keep our dunes open forever.


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Michelle
OC Central County 1 ASA Area Rep
Please keep yours/mine/our dunes clean! If you pack it in, then make sure you pack it out! http://gotdunes.com

I understand, Frankie, that you wern't directing at me... But I just don't understand this "hang 'em all" attitude that everyone seems to have.

Tim mentioned the "Rowdies" You mention the "Punks" Just who the hell are you or I to say just who IS a Punk?

Who gets to make that call? Are we gonna have a new law..

It is now illegal to be a punk at Glamis.
Any rowdieness will NOT be tollerated.

Get real. A person who has a two wheel drive truck and is over the age of 21 who wants to sit at the bottom of Comp, drink till he can't see straight and play his rock music as loud as possible while yelling at all the women to "Show me your tits" has every bit as much a right to Glamis as you or I do.

Look, I understand the "thought" behind this. I know that long timers see a huge party at the bottom of Comp or at the drags and they think, Oh my god what are they doing in MY dunes... Get over it... They ain't YOUR dunes.. they're OUR dunes... Mine, yours and THEIRS! By using broad statements and attacking the so called "Punks" without defining just what YOU think a punk is is only going to strengthen the greenies and the BLM's stand. We're fighting with EACH other!

Do you think I am against more BLM just because I have some sort of problem with authority? I've been accused of that before on the boards. This is not the case.. the reality of the situation is SOME of you are trying to BUY your way to a kinder and gentler Glamis. "lets throw more money at the problem and it'll go away" Bull cr&p. Glamis has ALWAYS been about taking care of YOURSELF and your NEIGHBORS... Why, all of a sudden are we so hell bent on hiring PLATOONS of BLM Rangers to solve some "PROBLEM" that no one seems able to acuratly define?
Sick of hearing the "I'm tired of paying more taxes" argument? Fine.. you pay MY share, dammit! I'm sick of paying. I'm sick of paying out the ass for the PRIVILAGE of getting MORE tickets for MORE bullsh|t infractions.
Driving down sand highway? Better watch your ass 'cause the Rangers just might see you as a PUNK! Is your hair too long? Are you wearing a Metallica T-shirt? Bandana? Is your skin too dark?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing ANYONE, least of all the Rangers, of being unfair or bigoted. But the way things are currently set up with so many rules and laws that the Cops get to "selectivly" enforce whichever law they choose the result is that the cops ticket those that THEY define as punks.
Family guy rides to the bushes to take a leak with no helmet.. Here have a warning... Long hair who tells the cops to leave him alone? here have a ticket!

I am simply sick of everyone's holyer than thou attitude... "Get the hell out of my dunes"

Well, they ain't YOUR dunes... they're OURS!

Vor

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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
ShiftingDunes.com

I didn't mean to bring up issues that are too negative. Obviously no one wants to deal with them because only Stacy replied to them. But I think one of the biggest concerns is safety. Along with trash. Maybe we need more positive publicity, instead of the Quicksand 2000, Glamis-what really goes on type of movies. Maybe someone could shoot a positive do***entary on the beauty of the dunes and how much fun duning can be. If it was done in a way that had some music and wasn't boring people might get the hint. That we want to preserve the beauty of the dunes. I don't think riding affects the dunes. But trash(ie. beer cans, bottles, couches,etc.) will affect the dune enviornment. We need more exposure. If this isn't the way let me know, tell me to shut up or something. Let's UNITE on an issue and give our all.

KS

Keith,
Got one in the works... It's gonna be a "Camping guide to the Dunes" which will show the various camping areas, what they are like on busy weekends and on slow weekends. Their plusses and minuses. What people who camp there think of their particular spot. What the dunes and other natural aspects of the area are like. What services are available in each spot. How to get to Comp and Olds and Boardmanville. Distances, safety issues, shortcuts, ect. It will be billed as "The first FAMILY video about Glamis"

Of course, this will take all of next season to do but keep your eyes open on my site this season for previews and short films.

Vor

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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
ShiftingDunes.com

Vor-Let me know if you need any help, I live right around the corner from you in Poway. I always bring my video camera to Glamis. Also I have a Sony Vaio laptop that you can plug into with an "I" link and edit video. Maybe if we all get enough "good" footage we could have a really good vid.

KS

Keithski-I think your correct in saying that the two major Issues that are being brought up here are the Safety and the Trash, but the closures are just as important as the other two! Nevertheless, in order to stop the closures, the safety and the trash has to be addressed!

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Michelle
OC Central County 1 ASA Area Rep
Please keep yours/mine/our dunes clean! If you pack it in, then make sure you pack it out! http://gotdunes.com

Keith, I'm always looking for good footage! I use a digital Video Hi-8 camera and a Dazzle analog capture card. Quality is good but not broadcast good... Where I am really hurting is in my editing programs. I just HAVE to find something that will do some special effects.

Vor

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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
ShiftingDunes.com

Well, now that you ask, Voice...

I don't care how long or short your hair is. I don't care what color you are.
I don't care how you smell.
I don't care if you go to comp at night or the sand drags.
I don't care if you get drunk.
I don't care how loud you play your music.

The first three are easy. The next three get a little more complicated.

If you go to the drags or comp at night to start fights, pull guns, molest or manhandle girls, dump your trash so I have to pick it up, dig trenches and pour gas in them and light it when some innocent rider is stuck in the trench, or do anything that puts other people at risk because you think it's funny...punk?

If you get drunk and thrash your Daddy's SUV, or run over someone, or get your a$$ kicked because some coward took advantage of the situation...punk?

If your loud music is disturbing everyones peace at 2 am and someone asks you to turn it down and you tell them to get f****d...punk?

I could go on, but you get the general idea...

I do NOT advocate a huge BLM police force at Glamis. I DO, however advocate a novel concept... personal responsibility. Your right to do as you please ends when you violate my right to live in peace. If someone wants to do the crime, be prepared to do the time. One more thing...age has nothing to do with stupidity. There are some older punks out there.

Brian, you give great post. You put a lot of thought into what you say and I respect that. You make me think, and that's a good thing at my age!!

Frankie

Michelle,
Sorry, I tend to think of the closures as a result of the problems. But, yes you are right it is a problem because something has been taken away from us undeservingly. Now remember I'm new here so don't shoot me when I ask this next question. Are there monthly ASA meetings? And are they in one place or do they take place in all 5 counties- Imperial, San Diego, Orange, Los Angeles, and Riverside. If there were local meetings that were easily accessible for the vast region we represent, it may make the organization stronger. Let me know what I can do.

KS

VOR- Do you know any link to download any dune wallpaper?

Jesus Christ! You have to wipe your a$$ after a dump. Do you think the ASA can help solve this? maybe if we ban together and make it into a big enough problem we my not have to wipe anymore!

What a damn charity hungry world we live in!

I'm not saying there aren't any A-holes out there. I'm not saying whining, dune-closing greens don't **** me off. But these people who cling on to a problem/opportunity to make money and turn things that are unjust(in their view) into a "cause" really need to get a life. Whats gonna happen next? ya going to get pictures of closed dunes and plaster them on a convoy of trucks and drive around?

Sorry Jerry but I DO think freedom is free. It only cost something if you look at freedom as something money can buy. I feel sorry for people who cant find peace and freedom in their own minds.

my question:
WHERE IS THE BIGGER PROBLEM? AT GLAMIS OR IN OUR COURTS, STREETS,AND ORGINIZATIONS?

JonRyder

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Damage INC

[This message has been edited by OnceJonRyder (edited 07-25-2001).]

I'm beginning to wonder if some of you post just to create a controversy. Would you say to my face what you post here? Vor, you say the punks have every right to Glamis just as we do. You did say that, right? Soooo, if a group of punks showed up at your house, burned your truck or car, kicked your a$$, and threw beer cans all over your lawn, do you think they have the "RIGHT" to do that? Or would you expect the police to arrest them? And PLEASE do not say "define what a punk is," you are not that stupid, and that is a stupid question. Do not insult me with your pretend ignorance of the problem. You know who the punks are. Brian, I don't have a problem with you, but you need to stop denying that a problem exists at Glamis. There is a problem, and it will get worse if nothing is done. Go to Olds at night, you won't have to see the arrests. And to you JonRyder, as much as it pains me to say this, there is no such thing as freedom, except maybe if you live in the wild with no other human contact. We all have to obide by the laws that our country has established. This obligation is accepted, and in fact mandatory. So we are not "free" to do as we please. We must abide by the law. And this includes at Glamis.
Just my "common sense"
Doug

[This message has been edited by KingGlamis (edited 07-25-2001).]

Jon, if you think that freedom is free, then you evidently place no value on the people that have given their lives for our country, defending the freedom that we enjoy today. They gave up the greatest freedom of all, the freedom to live, so that we could have the freedom to complain about whatever pi$$es you off. Some of the stuff that some of you complain about would require anarchy, and I prefer to live where people respect each other, and abide by the laws set forth by our fellow citizens.(I am not a religious man, but if we all lived by the Ten Commandments, none of this would be neccessary!!) I am a veteran and I consider myself a good american. Laws are sometimes a necessary evil, because some people want to take advantage of others, and there has to be a way to distinguish right from wrong. This is not a perfect world. We have to start somewhere. Nothing is easy.

Yes, I realize that some laws or rules suck, because we all have a different opinion on what is acceptable behavior or what is good or bad for us. Life is full of compromise...so is freedom.

Frankie

I would have to agree with VOR, that these Dunes belong to us all. But all of us, including the "PUNK" do have an obligation to clean up after ourselves. And be civil, and not do damage or harm to anyone else or there property. If we could only get this acrossed to the parterres, then I would not see any further problems. Mostly these people stay to themselves in a big group. If we could teach them not to F--- with anyone, then no one would have a reason to F--- with them. It's to there advantage to learn.

Finally, Someone is starting to see...
I never said that I wanted "Punks" to be free to break the law. What I said was, "Who gets to say who is and who isn't a punk?"
The General statement, "The problem is the punks at comp." is what I was taking issue with. Yes, I am loud and obnoxious and probably over the line in my argument, but, like Frankie said, at least I've gotten a few people to think.
No, Doug, I wouldn't want a group of people to come to my neighborhood to trash my car and my house... But then again, I pay taxes and pay higher rent in order to live in a place where that does not happen. Glamis is NOT my neighborhood... it is a wilderness that is governed by mother nature. Just as I wouldn't drive to South Central and park my Van on a corner, I wouldn't drive to Comp, at night, by myself. I'm not saying there isn't a problem here, I'm saying that by saying "the party at comp" is the problem is unfairly labeling a great many number of people who are simply having a good time at Glamis in their own way. All of those things mentioned, burning cars, molesting girls, diging and lighting trenches, are already against the law. The law enforcement has proven to be totally uneffective against any of this. When we suggest ways to help curb the problem, ie. check/choke points we're told that either they don't have the manpower or it is simply impractable. The cops are literally afraid to enter the area. If it is SOOOO bad at Comp why the hell does anyone even go? Practicly everyone here has gone or will go to Comp to "See the crazies". The question is... do we ban it or not? Because for any kind of change to occure at comp you will HAVE to close it or fill it with cops. You know that, I know that, the cops know that. My opinion is that I would rather have it open with fewer cops. Evidently, alot of you want to close it or fill it with cops.

My point is... in order for ANY kind of governmental control to be placed over the Comp party it will take PLATOONS of cops. Nothing short of a full on RIOT patrol will have any effect at all.
Writing a hundred tickets a day for littering isn't gonna clean up the dunes. Hireing more rangers in order to write more tickets will do nothing more than increase the numbers on the tally sheet and the number of fines collected $$. Crime rate will go up.. .not because there is more crime but because there are more Rangers to REPORT it!

Finally, I'd like to say to everyone that yes, I am extremely passionate about this issue and have said some very provocative things. Yes, I have been trying to get you guys to speak out. Do I REALLY think we can get by with no cops? No, of course not... I am really just trying to get you guys to see that more cops could be just as detremental to our dunes as any other "problem" at Glamis. Bring the cops on if something good is gonna come from it.. I just don't feel it will.
I respect everyone who has sounded off on this issue and I hope I have not lost your respect.
Also, I would like to add that at no time and in no way have I encouraged any kind of illegal activity or that anyone should ever disrespect any law enforcement officer at any time. We're having an intelectual debate here, not a call to arms!

Vor

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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
ShiftingDunes.com

Brian, you make a valid point. There is a posible down side to a massive buildup of law enforcement at Glamis. The "worst case" scenario is this...The cops aren't just going to sit on their hands. They are going to do what it takes to "solve" the problem...set an example by strictly inforcing the rules. When the granolas see the huge increase in arrests, this will prove their point...lawlessness is everywhere and the BLM will be forced to do their dirty work for them. They will shut it down.

I know that we have some LEO's in our group, and I'm not out to make you mad. I have some LEO friends and one of them is very aware about Glamis. He is a duner, an SD sheriff, and he may end up out there on major weekends. He doesn't see the need for a big LEO increase, but ne admits that a few more LEOs would help...he sees the need for better training, directed at the BLM LEO's. Crowd control just isn't their specialty.

I am hoping that the "MTV" mentality will decide that it's time to move on, and go somewhere else!!

Frankie