Just who should be allowed into the ISDRA?
Us respectable duners have been saying for a long time that it is unfair that it is the 5% of troublemakers that give us a bad name. We, in general, are decent, law abiding citizens who like to go to the dunes for the family atmosphere, great natural beauty and awesome riding. Constantly we are having to defend ourselves to the general public because of the few who like to break the law by drinking and driving, litter, do drugs, underage drinking ect.
Yet most of us are perfectly willing to agree with the following statement:
The people who come to Glamis simply to party at comp do not belong there and they should be chased out, by force, if need be
I find this to be completely hypocritical.
Some things to think about:
ISDRA stands for Imperial Sand Dunes Recreational Area
Nowhere in there does it say you have to be an off-roader.
The ISDRA is for everyone who wishes to go to the dunes for enjoyment, no matter how they choose as long as they are lawfull.
Now, there are some laws that should be mentioned here.
It is unlawfull to drink if you are underage.
It is unlawfull to drink and drive anything
It is unlawfull to litter
It is unlawfull to expose yourself in public
It is unlawfull to ride in the back of a pickup
It is unlawfull to drive more than 15mph within 50ft of any group of people or in any camp area.
Even with all those laws can anyone honestly say that it should be unlawfull just to come to Glamis to party?
Or is this simply a case where there people who are enjoying Glamis in a fashion that we simply don't understand or identify with?
Or are they too high maintance?
Do we spray crowds with pepper because some chick pulled her top off? Who deserves the pepper? the girl or the crowd? Who broke the law?
I do not know if pepper was used at comp this weekend but it has been reported.
Why is it New Orleans, or just about any city, can have druken revelers in their city streets during Mardi Gras and the police are perfectly capable of weeding the lawlessness out of the crowd while letting the party go on?
Why are they incapable of doing that at Glamis?
Much has been said about the drags being, well, a drag. Full of people driving slow, just showing off and basicly just cruising around partying.
Why, if you are not breaking the law, should that be wrong? That's what they wish to do. The ISDRA is for recreation. It does not define what recreation is. No one is stopping you from picking another spot and having a drag race if that is what you wish to do.
Maybe I'm being crazy here, but I think we should be very careful before we start condeming entire groups of people for what a small minority of their group does.
Isn't that what's being done to us?
PastorVor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
ShiftingDunes.com
Full Version: Sermon time!
Can I get an A-MEN! I think that several years ago,I would have thought that the partier's should be kicked out and would have been perfectly happy if that happened. I've learned alot about tolerance not being just a racial thing but about about all people everywhere. As much as I don't like that group of people, who am I to decide that they can't use the dunes? I have a feeling that there are as many responsible partiers as there are responsible duners and vice versa. I couldn't be behind you on this any more Pastor.
AMEN-thank you pastor thats exactly what i have been saying. just not in those nice politically correct words.
<RANT>
I agree... I believe that the middle of a wasteland is the most appropriate place for people to be rowdy and who am I to tell them to go somewhere else. The LEO's need to enforce basic laws but not pretend that comp hill is main street USA. I have heard many times about how they are afraid to go to comp at night and its getting old. If you are a coward then don't be a cop. Quit your job and make your position available for someone who wants to do the $hitty work that he/she is paid to do.
</RANT>
marde gras is profitable so they tolorate it.. glamis isn't as profitable so they aren't as enthusiastic about letting people enjoy themselves. same with rock concerts and football games... i see more litter in the parking lot after a charger game then I have ever seen at comp or the drags but the stadium will never be in danger of being shut down...
I agree... I believe that the middle of a wasteland is the most appropriate place for people to be rowdy and who am I to tell them to go somewhere else. The LEO's need to enforce basic laws but not pretend that comp hill is main street USA. I have heard many times about how they are afraid to go to comp at night and its getting old. If you are a coward then don't be a cop. Quit your job and make your position available for someone who wants to do the $hitty work that he/she is paid to do.
</RANT>
marde gras is profitable so they tolorate it.. glamis isn't as profitable so they aren't as enthusiastic about letting people enjoy themselves. same with rock concerts and football games... i see more litter in the parking lot after a charger game then I have ever seen at comp or the drags but the stadium will never be in danger of being shut down...
Ya know Pastor I too belive that G is for EVERYONE. But I think Comp, in the last few years, HAS taken a turn tward the worst. I don't go anymore. BUT can you or are you saying NOTHING should be done with the "trench Diggers", toppless females & the crowds that go there for reasons other than riding? Wouldn't giving up comp to them and moving to Olds be the same as letting any other "group of people" take away part of the dunes?
I can see the attraction of Comp at night to people who don't ride, but I don't see why "they" can go down there and F it up so bad it gives the whole area a bad name. Or am I just not seeing that what they are doing is "NOT THAT BAD"?
I can see the attraction of Comp at night to people who don't ride, but I don't see why "they" can go down there and F it up so bad it gives the whole area a bad name. Or am I just not seeing that what they are doing is "NOT THAT BAD"?
I have been going to glamis and comp since 1978. We were ther over Thanksgiving and my friends boys had a $10,000 Banshee ripped off. His boy was 16 years old and a girl was taking her top off and he HAD to see this. He was only gone a few minutes, my son was there to verify this. There need to be more controll taken back. I will not go to comp on a busy weekend again.
Gary
[This message has been edited by gtoland (edited 02-18-2002).]
Gary
[This message has been edited by gtoland (edited 02-18-2002).]
VOR your last line brings up a very good point. We are being unfairly judged by people who do not fully understand why we choose to participate in the form of racreation we do. It all boils down to stereo-typing- one of the most dangerous habits of sociaty. Many enviromental groups have determined that all off roaders are irresponsable and the world would be better off with out them. This line of thought angers me but what really gets me is when I catch myself thinking the same way about "partiers."
To be honest, I don't get along with people well. When I am at home there is always parties to go to but since I quit using drugs and alcohol when I was in 9th grade there is little appeal to the idea. When I go to glamis it is to get away from the parties and the people that live for them. In the desert I can be myself, no need to be worried that I look right, smell right (after a day of riding I almost always smell wrong), and act cool. I am a dork, to be blunt. When I do go out I, like pretty much every one else, have to try very hard to fit in, which I get tired of quickly. I hate trying to make sure I say the right slang words and laugh at the right things. That is part of the appeal of the desert to me; I go with good friends and family so my appearence is never an issue and I can relax.
What does this have to do with the party scene at glamis? For me, everything. I see Glamis as my personal space. Not that I own it rather a place for me to be me. I see the partiers as an encroachment on "my space." This is why I hate the people that come out to just party. I can not go to the drags with out getting some sort of glare from some flat biller because I am acting like me, a dork. I also hate violence but I have a very bad temper and drunks always seem to want to pick on the big guy like me. They look at me cross I look at them and then they might say something that I take personal and I snap. When I attempt to control my temper I become tense and there goes all the fun of the drags, hill or where ever the "cool" spot for the partiers is.
So now you might have a little insight into why I feel the way I do about partiers at glamis but I agree with what you said. It is a recration area, not an off road only park. People have the right to thier chosen form of recreation as long as it does not hurt, do harm or ruin anything (except ones liver). True, the parties are getting a little crazy at times in glamis but for the most part there should not be any law restricting people who only brought a keg and not a toy. The parties at comp DO NEED to be cleaner (sunday mornings at comp are discusting) and there should be more law enforcment to, well, enforce the laws. If one wants to go to glamis to do what they can do at home or at some cheesey night club then come on out but I have a right to speak my mind about it, and that is all. I may not like why that person is in glamis, I may not like what that person is doing but if they respect the dune enviroment and the laws I hope that person has a good time. I will just stay in the real dunes having my version of a good time. I am never going to stop going to glamis or getting excited when I first see the yellow on the horizon but I will just limit my visits to non holidays and stay away from the "hot spots." Glamis is one place but there is more than one way to have fun there, it is up to you to decside which type of fun is for you and let others have thiers.
To be honest, I don't get along with people well. When I am at home there is always parties to go to but since I quit using drugs and alcohol when I was in 9th grade there is little appeal to the idea. When I go to glamis it is to get away from the parties and the people that live for them. In the desert I can be myself, no need to be worried that I look right, smell right (after a day of riding I almost always smell wrong), and act cool. I am a dork, to be blunt. When I do go out I, like pretty much every one else, have to try very hard to fit in, which I get tired of quickly. I hate trying to make sure I say the right slang words and laugh at the right things. That is part of the appeal of the desert to me; I go with good friends and family so my appearence is never an issue and I can relax.
What does this have to do with the party scene at glamis? For me, everything. I see Glamis as my personal space. Not that I own it rather a place for me to be me. I see the partiers as an encroachment on "my space." This is why I hate the people that come out to just party. I can not go to the drags with out getting some sort of glare from some flat biller because I am acting like me, a dork. I also hate violence but I have a very bad temper and drunks always seem to want to pick on the big guy like me. They look at me cross I look at them and then they might say something that I take personal and I snap. When I attempt to control my temper I become tense and there goes all the fun of the drags, hill or where ever the "cool" spot for the partiers is.
So now you might have a little insight into why I feel the way I do about partiers at glamis but I agree with what you said. It is a recration area, not an off road only park. People have the right to thier chosen form of recreation as long as it does not hurt, do harm or ruin anything (except ones liver). True, the parties are getting a little crazy at times in glamis but for the most part there should not be any law restricting people who only brought a keg and not a toy. The parties at comp DO NEED to be cleaner (sunday mornings at comp are discusting) and there should be more law enforcment to, well, enforce the laws. If one wants to go to glamis to do what they can do at home or at some cheesey night club then come on out but I have a right to speak my mind about it, and that is all. I may not like why that person is in glamis, I may not like what that person is doing but if they respect the dune enviroment and the laws I hope that person has a good time. I will just stay in the real dunes having my version of a good time. I am never going to stop going to glamis or getting excited when I first see the yellow on the horizon but I will just limit my visits to non holidays and stay away from the "hot spots." Glamis is one place but there is more than one way to have fun there, it is up to you to decside which type of fun is for you and let others have thiers.
Pastor, da McScrappbook has been wondering when she was gonna get another sermon...and hotdamn she's gonna get a good one...
[This message has been edited by Slappy (edited 03-03-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Slappy (edited 03-03-2002).]
OH Motoholics, da McScrappbook is gonna be taking yours too...
Ya know Motoholics, us dorks need to stay together
...Well, Slappy love to use da word, "McDorkinstien"...NO, it's "McDorkinsteen"...
[This message has been edited by Slappy (edited 02-20-2002).]
Da first think Slappy gonna work on is gettin dat c-r-a-p filter thingy takin out...Slappy gettin all mcirritated with McS****pbook.
[This message has been edited by Slappy (edited 02-20-2002).]
Ya know Motoholics, us dorks need to stay together
...Well, Slappy love to use da word, "McDorkinstien"...NO, it's "McDorkinsteen"...[This message has been edited by Slappy (edited 02-20-2002).]
Da first think Slappy gonna work on is gettin dat c-r-a-p filter thingy takin out...Slappy gettin all mcirritated with McS****pbook.
[This message has been edited by Slappy (edited 02-20-2002).]
Hey GTOLAND, a 16 year old kid looking at boobs isn't the end of the world. I bet that kid watches cable, and if you've seen cinemax at night, WOOHOO!!! lol
Anyway, good sermon VOR. Send that to ABC 7 news for us.
I agree that the partying shouldn't stop, it should get controlled. I've been to Mardi Gras, the cops are everywhere withing the crowd. As soon as a big crowd gathers around some boobs or naked woman, the cops break it up. Nicely, they make the girl put her clothes on and ask the crowd to disperse. It works great.....CONTROL the crowd BEFORE it gets out of had. That should be done at comp. About the litter, it won't stop and that bothers me. MIB pointed out that he sees more trash at football games and concerts. But they have a person for hire that cleans the parking lot with a sweeper. AND it's a lot easier to sweep the parking lot or inside a stadium than it is the sand.
I think I'll start hitting the off weekends now anyway. And I have already started staying away from the "hot spots"
Anyway, good sermon VOR. Send that to ABC 7 news for us.
I agree that the partying shouldn't stop, it should get controlled. I've been to Mardi Gras, the cops are everywhere withing the crowd. As soon as a big crowd gathers around some boobs or naked woman, the cops break it up. Nicely, they make the girl put her clothes on and ask the crowd to disperse. It works great.....CONTROL the crowd BEFORE it gets out of had. That should be done at comp. About the litter, it won't stop and that bothers me. MIB pointed out that he sees more trash at football games and concerts. But they have a person for hire that cleans the parking lot with a sweeper. AND it's a lot easier to sweep the parking lot or inside a stadium than it is the sand.
I think I'll start hitting the off weekends now anyway. And I have already started staying away from the "hot spots"
Well, I've been saying that the litter problem isn't as big of a problem as we think, for ages now.
The BLM spent $480,000 on law enforcement last weekend.
Take $100,000 of that and you could PAY for ALOT of trash cleanup.
Vor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
ShiftingDunes.com
The BLM spent $480,000 on law enforcement last weekend.
Take $100,000 of that and you could PAY for ALOT of trash cleanup.
Vor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
ShiftingDunes.com
After reading some of the other posts on a couple other hot topics, I think that only other people who think exactly as I think and behave exactly as I behave should be allowed in the dunes.
Wayno
Wayno
The one's who should be "drivin out" are the one's who cause big problems. some are the "partiers" some are the "off roaders" If someone wants to come to Glamis with no off road type of vechicle and drink and kick back, party, whatever, fine....as long as they contain doing this to thier camp, for if they leave and go elsewhere they they are breaking at least 1 law (DUI). I've seen a few people who just come to G to camp in the desert and don't ride or drink...fine. I've also seen people in big RV's with a $100,000 worth of toys who do not belong in Glamis. Just having an ATV, rail, bike does not mean you belong at Glamis if you do not act in a responsible manner. PROPER enforcement of the laws across the board will be the way to control G, just like they did here in Palm Springs during spring break. As mentioned in other posts, they do it during Mardi Gras, the LEO's there have specific control and arrest guidelines and patterns. The difference being Mardi Gras is an asset, Glamis is a liability as of now. Gregg
Well said, Greg.
There are PLENTY of folks with off road vehicles who do not belong at Glamis.
Vor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
ShiftingDunes.com
There are PLENTY of folks with off road vehicles who do not belong at Glamis.
Vor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
ShiftingDunes.com
Well said, Voice...you too, Motoholic. Contrary to popular belief, just because I'm 60 doesn't mean that I can't still get down with the rest of you. I love a good time, and I admit to have broken the booze related laws more than a few times. I have no issue with anyone that likes to party hard...as long as you are considerate of others when you are doing it.
I think that digging trenches is dumb, but it's probably not illegal.... Pouring gas into the trench and lighting it is dangerous and probably illegal...jerking people off their toys, ect, is where the line is drawn for me. Fighting is over the line. Bare chested girls are an issue only if it leads to a violent confrontation...reckless driving around a crowd is over the line. I don't give a damn what you wear, how you look, what you drive, or how you smell (as long as you're downwind!!). The tough part is that what you think is ok may not be cool with someone else. This is usually where the trouble starts...differences of opinions getting out of hand, and leading to problems later on.
I don't know what the answer is, but keeping a dialogue open between the different points of view is a big step in the right direction, and this topic is a great start. Thanks, Voice.
Frankie
I think that digging trenches is dumb, but it's probably not illegal.... Pouring gas into the trench and lighting it is dangerous and probably illegal...jerking people off their toys, ect, is where the line is drawn for me. Fighting is over the line. Bare chested girls are an issue only if it leads to a violent confrontation...reckless driving around a crowd is over the line. I don't give a damn what you wear, how you look, what you drive, or how you smell (as long as you're downwind!!). The tough part is that what you think is ok may not be cool with someone else. This is usually where the trouble starts...differences of opinions getting out of hand, and leading to problems later on.
I don't know what the answer is, but keeping a dialogue open between the different points of view is a big step in the right direction, and this topic is a great start. Thanks, Voice.
Frankie
Oh ya, I should have said it in my first post: Awsome topic VOR
I think every one is in the same boat, Do what you want as long as it is safe and legal. That is what ses us apart from the eco-extremists, they would rather tell some one what to do because they think they are so enlightened that they know what is best.
I think every one is in the same boat, Do what you want as long as it is safe and legal. That is what ses us apart from the eco-extremists, they would rather tell some one what to do because they think they are so enlightened that they know what is best.
I hear ya Frankie,
"I really don't mind when people party..."
One point is, though, that it really doesn't matter if you or I mind. What matters is, is it legal?
All too often we duners, and most people in general, tend to see things only from our own point of view.
I try very hard to see more than my own point of view. An interesting perspective I've discovered is how the partiers could see us, EXACTLY as we see the environmentalists. We are shoving our values onto people who do not identify with us.
Now I know this analogy is not perfect... but you can see my point.
I'm not saying "Give the desert to the partiers", what I'm saying is, "Let's be careful".
Vor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
ShiftingDunes.com
"I really don't mind when people party..."
One point is, though, that it really doesn't matter if you or I mind. What matters is, is it legal?
All too often we duners, and most people in general, tend to see things only from our own point of view.
I try very hard to see more than my own point of view. An interesting perspective I've discovered is how the partiers could see us, EXACTLY as we see the environmentalists. We are shoving our values onto people who do not identify with us.
Now I know this analogy is not perfect... but you can see my point.
I'm not saying "Give the desert to the partiers", what I'm saying is, "Let's be careful".
Vor
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May the Dune Gods Smile Upon You
ShiftingDunes.com
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I AGREE WITH VOR.
Jon it's only bad what they are doing if it hurts innocent people. For example.. some kid goes thru the trench, unknowning what goes on there, and get's the **** beat out of him. That's wrong!!! The trench diggers are fun to watch just don't assault people. Also, anything else ie; flashing girls, guys or whatever, is fine.. that's not hurting anyone as long as you do not molest the girls. Alot of this is about respecting other peoples space. Stay out of someones space if they don't want you in it. Other then that I love comp, drags, olds, china wall, you name it. It's all part of Glamis.
i agree vor... the "ban everbody" attitude is what lead me to quitting posting. I agree completely!
TheGoon
TheGoon
OH WOW THE GOON IS BACK.
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freinds don't let freinds ride red
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freinds don't let freinds ride red
Another great sermon, thanks VOR.
Yes, who doesn't like to party? But when it gets out of hand (people getting hurt) something has to be done.
How much nicer it would be if everyone at Comp. Hill could gather around a band and drink, dance and have a great time without worry that someone is going to mess with your ride, or attack you for no reason...
Sad,,, it used to be like this too
And Frankie, your not OLD,,, but
Yes, who doesn't like to party? But when it gets out of hand (people getting hurt) something has to be done.
How much nicer it would be if everyone at Comp. Hill could gather around a band and drink, dance and have a great time without worry that someone is going to mess with your ride, or attack you for no reason...
Sad,,, it used to be like this too
And Frankie, your not OLD,,, but
quoteQUOTEI love a good time, and I admit to have broken the booze related laws more than a few timesyou have???
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Do It In The DUNES!
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