Sheesh. If they can't get us one way, they'll try for another.
Guess if they expect the IRS to get rid of the ones they don't torch!
Sierra Club Calls on IRS to Audit SUV Owners
DATE: February 13, 2003
BACKGROUND: The Sierra Club on February 11, 2003 issued a press release beginning: "The Sierra Club today urged the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to aggressively audit the returns of taxpayers who take advantage of a tax loophole subsidizing their purchases of gas-guzzling SUVs. In a letter to the IRS, the group stressed the need for the IRS to ensure that these vehicles are in fact being used for business purposes at least 50% of the time, as the tax code requires. Already, many individuals have taken advantage of the loophole to drive off the lot with a luxury SUV, often for personal use, assured that they will be able to pass on to taxpayers up to $25,000 of the cost of the vehicle."
The release continues, in part: "A long-standing provision of the tax code lets small business owners write off a portion of certain business expenses. Vehicles weighing over 6000 pounds are eligible, so that small business owners who need work trucks and delivery vans can take advantage of the provision. But many S.U.V.s weigh over 6000 pounds, and since that loophole -- which [the Sierra Club's Daniel] Becker described as 'a loophole big enough to drive a Hummer through' -- came to light last year, a growing number of individuals are using it to buy S.U.V.s for what may be personal -- not business -- use. According to Taxpayers for Common Sense, the SUV tax loophole costs the federal government $1 billion for every 100,000 vehicles that exploit the deduction."
TEN SECOND RESPONSE: The demonization of SUV owners continues with the allegation that SUV owners are likely to cheat on their taxes.
THIRTY SECOND RESPONSE: Businesses with 100 employees or less already spend $2,500 per employee complying with federal regulations. Auditing them because they take business deductions for the purchase of delivery vans and similar vehicles would simply add to these already staggering costs. All businesses and individuals should comply with tax laws, but no group should be singled out for costly tax audits simply because it uses vehicles that are not politically correct.
DISCUSSION: Environmental organizations convinced the government in 1975 to place mileage limits on vehicles, with higher limits for vehicles built on truck beds. It was entirely predictable that the result of such a rule would be the use of truck beds for larger passenger vehicles -- hence, the invention of the SUV. Now that SUVs exist, the purchase price of a small percentage of them (those over 6,000 pounds) qualifies for tax deductions IF the SUV is used for business use at least 50 percent of the time.
Readers of the Sierra Club's press release and its website could be forgiven for supposing that this long-standing tax deduction is leading to a deluge of tax cheating and SUV purchasing. In fact, only the very largest SUVs weigh over 6,000 pounds, most SUV owners don't claim to use them primarily for business and the Sierra Club presents no evidence of widespread tax cheating relating to SUVs.
Ironically, as this tax deduction is rather obscure, the Sierra Club's publicity campaign may cause more people to take advantage of it.
A careful reading of the Sierra Club's press release and website on SUVs reveals a generous use of over-the-top prose.
For instance, the first paragraph of their web page entitled "Driving Up the Heat: SUVs and Global Warming" begins: "When it comes to wasting energy, SUVs are unrivaled. Built with outdated, gas-guzzling technology, many SUVs get just 13 miles per gallon."
Of course, the energy use of SUVs can't possibly be "unrivaled" (the Sierra Club's word, "waste," is impossible to quantify) and the phrase "many SUVs" is essentially meaningless.
To be precise, of 269 year-2003 SUV models examined by the EPA, only 34 (12.6%) get 13 mpg or less in city driving and only 10 (3.7%) get 13 mpg or less on highways.
Of the 34, more than half, 19, were versions of the Chevrolet Suburban or Tahoe or the GMC Yukon. All 10 of the SUVs rated by the EPA as receiving 13 mpg or less during highway driving were Suburbans, Tahoes or Yukons.
The Sierra Club webpage goes on to tell one side of the SUV safety debate -- the cons only.
Another Sierra Club webpage, "Driving Up the Heat: SUVs and Global Warming: Worsening the Threat of Global Warming," makes one inflated claim after another. Readers are led to believe that SUVs are significantly responsible for sea level rises (ongoing for approximately 14,985 years before the first SUV was invented), the melting of ice sheets formed during the last ice age and melting ever since (expected to continue for another 6,000 years, SUVs or not) and even for "infectious-disease outbreaks linked to global warming [that] shut down Disney World."
In fact, according to testimony by one of the world's leading climate scientists, Dr. S. Fred Singer, in testimony before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation in 2000, satellite data show no appreciable warming of the global atmosphere since 1979. Data from balloons released regularly around the world confirm the satellite data. Reliable thermometer records of surface temperatures for the continental United States show no appreciable warming since about 1940. Tree-ring records for Siberia and Alaska and published ice-core records show no warming since 1940.
If the planet were to experience global warming, the naturally-occuring sea level rise might slow, due to increased snow accumulation at the poles.
For reasons likely related to its own biases, the Sierra Club seems to place more credibility in relatively crude computer models predicting future global warming than in actual temperature measurements. It is free to do so. This does not mean, however, that SUV owners are more likely than other taxpayers to cheat on their taxes.
Full Version: Sierra Club asks IRS to target SUVs
quote:Gimme a break. Almost no SUV weighs that much. The Escalade weighs less than that. The Excursion and the 2 Hummers are the only SUVs I could find that surpass 6000 pounds.
Vehicles weighing over 6000 pounds are eligible
http://www.americanfinancialtax.com/suv.htm
"Sole proprietors who own expensive business autos and are considering the purchase of a new one should consider buying a luxury-class sport utility vehicles (SUV) instead. If it is heavy enough, the SUV will not be subject to the luxury auto dollar caps, which severely limit depreciation deductions for purchased business autos, and, for autos placed in service in 2002, remain at the same levels as for autos placed in service in 2000 or 2001. The net result: much faster depreciation write-offs.
IRC § 280F imposes restrictive annual dollar caps on auto depreciation (and IRC § 179 expensing). The dollar caps do not apply to heavy SUVs that have a gross (loaded) vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of over 6,000 pounds.
The IRC § 280F dollar caps apply only to a passenger auto, defined as any four-wheeled vehicle which is manufactured primarily for use on public streets, roads, and highways, and is rated at an unloaded gross vehicle weight of 6,000 pounds or less. (IRC § 280F(d)(5)(A); Reg. § 1.280F-6T©(1)) In the case of a truck or van, the above 6,000-pound weight test is applied to the truck's or van's gross (loaded) vehicle weight rather than its unloaded gross vehicle weight. (IRC § 280F(d)(5)(B)) The weight-based definitions of a passenger auto and trucks or vans for purposes of the IRC § 280F dollar caps are the same as the IRC § 4001(b)(1) and IRC § 4001(b)(2)(A) weight-based definitions of a passenger vehicle and trucks and vans for purposes of the luxury auto excise tax. Although the regs under IRC § 280F do not define the terms truck or van, Prop Reg § 48.4001-1(b)(2)(iii)(B) does provide that for luxury auto excise tax purposes, "the term 'truck or van' includes vehicles that are commonly known as minivans and sport utility vehicles." IRS has ruled privately that a sport utility vehicle with a gross (loaded) vehicle weight in excess of 6,000 pounds is not a passenger vehicle for purposes of the luxury auto excise tax. (PLR 9520034)
What this means:
The following would be subject to annual depreciation limitations:
A passenger automobile vehicle with an unloaded vehicle weight of 6,000 pounds or less
A truck, van or sport utility vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 6,000 pounds or less.
The following would be NOT be subject to annual depreciation limitations:
A passenger automobile vehicle with an unloaded vehicle weight of more than 6,000 pounds
A truck, van or sport utility vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 6,000 pounds
How do I know if the SUV I want is heavy enough?
Open the driver's door. Look for the manufacturer metal plate or sticker. The weight of the vehicle is shown as GVWR. To qualify, it must be GREATER than 6,000 lbs."
should the US government enforce a tax structure that encourages the use of vehicles that might contribute to global warming?
[ 02-14-2003, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Bluesky ]
"Sole proprietors who own expensive business autos and are considering the purchase of a new one should consider buying a luxury-class sport utility vehicles (SUV) instead. If it is heavy enough, the SUV will not be subject to the luxury auto dollar caps, which severely limit depreciation deductions for purchased business autos, and, for autos placed in service in 2002, remain at the same levels as for autos placed in service in 2000 or 2001. The net result: much faster depreciation write-offs.
IRC § 280F imposes restrictive annual dollar caps on auto depreciation (and IRC § 179 expensing). The dollar caps do not apply to heavy SUVs that have a gross (loaded) vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of over 6,000 pounds.
The IRC § 280F dollar caps apply only to a passenger auto, defined as any four-wheeled vehicle which is manufactured primarily for use on public streets, roads, and highways, and is rated at an unloaded gross vehicle weight of 6,000 pounds or less. (IRC § 280F(d)(5)(A); Reg. § 1.280F-6T©(1)) In the case of a truck or van, the above 6,000-pound weight test is applied to the truck's or van's gross (loaded) vehicle weight rather than its unloaded gross vehicle weight. (IRC § 280F(d)(5)(B)) The weight-based definitions of a passenger auto and trucks or vans for purposes of the IRC § 280F dollar caps are the same as the IRC § 4001(b)(1) and IRC § 4001(b)(2)(A) weight-based definitions of a passenger vehicle and trucks and vans for purposes of the luxury auto excise tax. Although the regs under IRC § 280F do not define the terms truck or van, Prop Reg § 48.4001-1(b)(2)(iii)(B) does provide that for luxury auto excise tax purposes, "the term 'truck or van' includes vehicles that are commonly known as minivans and sport utility vehicles." IRS has ruled privately that a sport utility vehicle with a gross (loaded) vehicle weight in excess of 6,000 pounds is not a passenger vehicle for purposes of the luxury auto excise tax. (PLR 9520034)
What this means:
The following would be subject to annual depreciation limitations:
A passenger automobile vehicle with an unloaded vehicle weight of 6,000 pounds or less
A truck, van or sport utility vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 6,000 pounds or less.
The following would be NOT be subject to annual depreciation limitations:
A passenger automobile vehicle with an unloaded vehicle weight of more than 6,000 pounds
A truck, van or sport utility vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 6,000 pounds
How do I know if the SUV I want is heavy enough?
Open the driver's door. Look for the manufacturer metal plate or sticker. The weight of the vehicle is shown as GVWR. To qualify, it must be GREATER than 6,000 lbs."
should the US government enforce a tax structure that encourages the use of vehicles that might contribute to global warming?
[ 02-14-2003, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Bluesky ]
Thank you Sierra Club for your insight on how to cheat the federal government.
Bet this one is over 6000 lbs...
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=4584
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=4584
quote:
Studebaker is reborn in U.S. as a massive SUV
Reuters / February 14, 2003
CHICAGO -- Studebaker went out of business four decades ago, but a small company whose owner remembers the automaker well has revived its name and given it to a massive new SUV.
A prototype version of the military-inspired Studebaker, which looks something like a boxy Hummer H2 from General Motors on steroids, made its public debut this week at the Chicago Auto Show.
It was built by independent U.S. carmaker Avanti Motor Corp. and company CEO Michael Kelly said Thursday that production versions of the truck would go on sale in August.
"The interest level is extremely high," Kelly said of initial public reception of the seven-passenger truck, which is 17 inches longer than a Hummer and being tagged by Avanti as an Xtreme Utility Vehicle.
"We'll start taking (sales) orders in the next two to three weeks. We feel very confident that demand will exceed supply," he said.
Kelly said Avanti, which operates a small auto plant in Villa Rica, Ga., only planned to build about 1,000 of the vehicles per year.
The truck will have a starting price of $75,000 and come equipped with a 10-cylinder engine from Ford Motor Co. or a V-8 turbo diesel.
Because of the vehicle's gargantuan size and weight, the gasoline-powered version will get just 13 miles per gallon on city streets and 17 mpg on highways.
Kelly takes more than just a passing interest in reviving the Studebaker name, which he said had been "sitting dormant for many years" before he applied for the rights to revive it.
He is a native of South Bend, Ind., where Studebaker was based until its demise in December 1963. And the Avanti sports car, which his company builds in Villa Rica, was once built by Studebaker.
"I grew up with Studebaker, I grew up with Avanti," Kelly said.
Only 150 Avantis are built yearly and the company says the sleek-looking vehicles, which are handcrafted, have fans all over the world.
quote:Poiks,
Gimme a break. Almost no SUV weighs that much. The Escalade weighs less than that. The Excursion and the 2 Hummers are the only SUVs I could find that surpass 6000 pounds.
I work on a public scale and weigh lots of these things. Most 3/4 ton Suburbans are over 6000lbs. Most 3/4 ton pickups are close. I'm always telling people how to reduce the weight of their vehicles before I issue a certified weight so as to save them money on registration. I've personally weighed my 4-door GMC 3500 dually and with only 1/2 of one fuel tank it hit 6300lbs! I have it registered at 5700lbs. A 4WD diesel Excursion with a full fuel tank hit my scale at 7900lbs!!!!
Brian, you are not supposed to be in the truck when you weigh it. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Washroad, I would assume that the tax break is based on curb weight as listed by the mfr. Of all the ones I saw, only the Hummers and Excursion were over 6000. And since the thing mentioned SUV's specifically, I assumed pickups weren't included.
Either way, the majority of SUV's sold (Explorer-class vehicls, 4Runners, Jeeps, etc.) won't be affected.
Either way, the majority of SUV's sold (Explorer-class vehicls, 4Runners, Jeeps, etc.) won't be affected.
there's plenty of heavy SUVs around if you want to split hairs. The article above reflects Sierra Club's consistent policy of protecting our earth and its air, water and ability to sustain us people.
http://autobuy.about.com/c/v/vehicles/2003...726757-feat.htm
2003 Chevrolet Avalanche 1500
GVW Standard 6800
http://autobuy.about.com/c/v/vehicles/2003...717256-feat.htm
2003 Dodge Durango SLT
GVW Standard 6050
http://autobuy.about.com/c/v/vehicles/2003...196199-feat.htm
2003 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer
GVW Standard 6650
http://autobuy.about.com/c/v/vehicles/2003...547480-feat.htm
2003 Land Rover Discovery HSE
GVW Standard 6064
http://autobuy.about.com/c/v/vehicles/2003...726757-feat.htm
2003 Chevrolet Avalanche 1500
GVW Standard 6800
http://autobuy.about.com/c/v/vehicles/2003...717256-feat.htm
2003 Dodge Durango SLT
GVW Standard 6050
http://autobuy.about.com/c/v/vehicles/2003...196199-feat.htm
2003 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer
GVW Standard 6650
http://autobuy.about.com/c/v/vehicles/2003...547480-feat.htm
2003 Land Rover Discovery HSE
GVW Standard 6064
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Blu,
You're pointing to the gross weight of the vehicle fully loaded, not the "curb" weight which if far less. According to the links, most of these vehicles do not qualify.
Poiks,
Don't know if pickups will qualify as a SUV. I help people because with a "commerical" license you pay a yearly fee based on the weight of the vehicle and it never goes down. I help people "lighten" their vehicles legally and certify it. If you have an SUV and want to qualify, I can help you that way also! I know lots of legal ways to add weight to a vehicle.
Jeff,
Bite me! ! !
You're pointing to the gross weight of the vehicle fully loaded, not the "curb" weight which if far less. According to the links, most of these vehicles do not qualify.
Poiks,
Don't know if pickups will qualify as a SUV. I help people because with a "commerical" license you pay a yearly fee based on the weight of the vehicle and it never goes down. I help people "lighten" their vehicles legally and certify it. If you have an SUV and want to qualify, I can help you that way also!
I know lots of legal ways to add weight to a vehicle. Jeff,
Bite me! ! !
quote:
You're pointing to the gross weight of the vehicle fully loaded, not the "curb" weight which if far less. According to the links, most of these vehicles do not qualify.
quote:
If it is heavy enough, the SUV will not be subject to the luxury auto dollar caps,
quote:
The dollar caps do not apply to heavy SUVs that have a gross (loaded) vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of over 6,000 pounds.
Okay, I think I've got this figured out. It's just a case of mistaken identity... last time I was surrounded by "them" was at a Desert Advisory Council meeting. When we broke for lunch, I watched "them" pile into different vehicles so they could carpool. Three of the four vehicles were of the evil SUV type -- big, clunky, gas-guzzling, tax-dodging automobiles.
So I'm thinking someone from the Sierra Club must have seen the same thing and didn't realize who they were scowling at! Surely they wouldn't eat their own kind, would they? :shock:
Vicki
So I'm thinking someone from the Sierra Club must have seen the same thing and didn't realize who they were scowling at! Surely they wouldn't eat their own kind, would they? :shock:
Vicki
at least they were considerate enough to carpool 
Blu, you're a Dune Master! Way to go! 
QUOTE
Blu, you're a Dune Master! Way to go!
NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It takes more than a title to be a DUNE MASTER! :roll2: 
:wink: :dozey: :whatever:
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
okay there is no such thing as global warming! Its a proven fact that the o zone layer is closing itself back up. (But of course the GREENIES dont want you to know that) Did you also know that the sierra club planted spotted owls in the forest where they were cutting down trees so they could get them out of there? hmmm... sierra club lies again, Also we are not running low on gas if you enviros would let us drill for oil in places like Alaska, we wouldnt have this problem. You all have to remember the planet went through things like the Ice Age, The earth is constantly changing, it knows what to do to take care of it self. Your 100yrs (if your lucky) life on this planet has to effect on what the earth is going to do.
Chicken little (Blusky) if ur a true enivormentalist in your own words you must relize that you being here on the planet is a burden in itself.
Chicken little was a cartoon character who the thought the sky was falling. (Just like all of you) So thats what everyone on here should start calling you!!
Chicken little (Blusky) if ur a true enivormentalist in your own words you must relize that you being here on the planet is a burden in itself.
Chicken little was a cartoon character who the thought the sky was falling. (Just like all of you) So thats what everyone on here should start calling you!!
QUOTE
okay there is no such thing as global warming!
please provide some backup for your statement, 250rgirl. Are you a climatologist or other scientist? taken a class in enviornmental studies? Read something that convinced you? what?
QUOTE
Its a proven fact that the o zone layer is closing itself back up.
I have heard that too. Why do you think it is closing back up?
QUOTE
Did you also know that the sierra club planted spotted owls in the forest where they were cutting down trees so they could get them out of there?
that sounds illegal to me. Can you prove it? How did you hear of this?
QUOTE
Also we are not running low on gas if you enviros would let us drill for oil in places like Alaska, we wouldnt have this problem.
according to those in the know, there's only enough oil available there to supply the US for one year--then what do we do?
http://www.uaa.alaska.edu/just/rlinks/envi...nt/ak_anwr.html
" Currently the U.S. consumes about 7 billion barrels of oil each year; the U.S. Department of the Interior estimates that perhaps 7.7 billion barrels of oil are recoverable within the federal portions of the 1002 Area."
QUOTE
The earth is constantly changing, it knows what to do to take care of it self.
What we discuss in these forums is how we affect the ability of the earth to continue to provide healthy soil, clean air and water for the human inhabitants.
QUOTE
if ur a true enivormentalist in your own words
I never claimed to be what you say.
QUOTE
Chicken little was a cartoon character
The story of Chicken Little is a traditional English fable from the 19th century
http://www.pulcina.org/contact%20information.htm
Welcome to the board 250rgirl. We have gone over many of these topics before on other threads in the Environment board, but I don't mind researching my answers to you again, as new info is discovered and posted regularly. I research by searching at www.google.com. where do you do your research?
I have heard that too. Why do you think it is closing back up?
Because the recording temptures in Antaritca are getting colder, (Look it up for yourself)
that sounds illegal to me. Can you prove it? How did you hear of this?
It is illegal that is why you guys got introuble it was put on the news (look it up)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
according to those in the know, there's only enough oil available there to supply the US for one year--then what do we do?
If you watch the news in california you will see that people who are protesting the gas prices are the people that have low income, and usally the people have low income (not all) depend on the government to do everything for them which is commonly called the democratic party or a better word for them socialist. Because these people have stopped the process of looking oil and have stopped making another oir refinerry for at least the past 50 yrs we must depend on out side sources to supply our oil. Which some people based on there occupation depend on the price of gas being low. Such as taxi cab drives small truck buisnesses and because you socialist are so worried about the enivroment you are causing undostress on these people who cant afford the gas. But you will blame the republicans for this because you dont have enough nerve and your an idiot to relize its people like you and so called democratic party who are doing this.
Also i was watching national geographic about oil in alaska it is proven that there is enough oil to supply vechicles for the next 100yrs or more!
Enivormentalist talk with emotion and not logic blusky i recommend you know all the facrs bout things before you run your mouth.[/b]
Because the recording temptures in Antaritca are getting colder, (Look it up for yourself)
that sounds illegal to me. Can you prove it? How did you hear of this?
It is illegal that is why you guys got introuble it was put on the news (look it up)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
according to those in the know, there's only enough oil available there to supply the US for one year--then what do we do?
If you watch the news in california you will see that people who are protesting the gas prices are the people that have low income, and usally the people have low income (not all) depend on the government to do everything for them which is commonly called the democratic party or a better word for them socialist. Because these people have stopped the process of looking oil and have stopped making another oir refinerry for at least the past 50 yrs we must depend on out side sources to supply our oil. Which some people based on there occupation depend on the price of gas being low. Such as taxi cab drives small truck buisnesses and because you socialist are so worried about the enivroment you are causing undostress on these people who cant afford the gas. But you will blame the republicans for this because you dont have enough nerve and your an idiot to relize its people like you and so called democratic party who are doing this.
Also i was watching national geographic about oil in alaska it is proven that there is enough oil to supply vechicles for the next 100yrs or more!
Enivormentalist talk with emotion and not logic blusky i recommend you know all the facrs bout things before you run your mouth.[/b]
QUOTE
Enivormentalist talk with emotion and not logic blusky i recommend you know all the facrs bout things before you run your mouth.[/
Lets hear it for the new girl!
Pay no attention to the Bluzer! :eww: He just likes to piss people off! BTW, welcome to the board!
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
lol this is 250rgirl just changed name
does blusky ride to?
piss me off? Naw! I get a kick out of how stupid he sounds. =) I dont need to pay money anymore to go to comedy shows I'll i have to do is come in here and read blusky's bs posts. Thats all the entertainment i need. LOL By the way blusky you can't always believe everything you read, no wonder your so brain washed!
QUOTE
I have heard that too. Why do you think it is closing back up?
Because the recording temptures in Antaritca are getting colder, (Look it up for yourself)
Because the recording temptures in Antaritca are getting colder, (Look it up for yourself)
the temperatures might be telling us that the ozone hole is closing up, but that's not why it's closing up.
http://filebox.vt.edu/uap/faculty/browder/...r/ozonedoc.html
it's closing up because the cfcs and other chemical fertilizers that reacted with the ozone to convert it to oxygen have been banned by many governments. By using our knowledge and observation and government policies, we can control the effects of our impacts on the earth.
Do you know why we need the ozone layer around the earth's atmosphere?
have you studied economic systems? I see you use the word "socialist" which is a form of economic system. Did you know that the US government has a "mixed" economy? That is, it's not 100% free enterprise. If an important corporation goes bankrupt, the government will lend it money to stay in business. If a foreign product is cheaper than an important American product, the government puts up tariffs to protect the domestic product from too much competition. Is this socialism?
by riding an OHV in our earth's natural areas on public lands, you are committing a political act. Sounds like you're aware of this and are trying to get your rhetoric down. Good luck!
Ok Mr. Blusky if your so smart what happens when things get hot? they expand. And what happens when things get cold? THe shrink. The earth's tempture is getting colder but yet were having a global warming? LoL I don't think so.
Another thing about you tree huggers is you tell people what to do but yet i never see any ur group trying to fix anything. "Dont throw your trash outh the window" Yet you wouldnt go and pick it up .
THe only thing i would agree with the sierra club on is people leaving there trash. But yet when i see members on the board asking why you never show up to help, you never have an answer. Enviromentalists say "stop cutting down trees" Yet you live in wouldn't houses, you blow your nose with paper but "oh no its not okay to do that!" THey say we need to get rid of SUVs yet many greenies have them all over the country. I wish you all would quit telling people what is right and what is wrong when your all part of the same problem!
Another thing about you tree huggers is you tell people what to do but yet i never see any ur group trying to fix anything. "Dont throw your trash outh the window" Yet you wouldnt go and pick it up .
THe only thing i would agree with the sierra club on is people leaving there trash. But yet when i see members on the board asking why you never show up to help, you never have an answer. Enviromentalists say "stop cutting down trees" Yet you live in wouldn't houses, you blow your nose with paper but "oh no its not okay to do that!" THey say we need to get rid of SUVs yet many greenies have them all over the country. I wish you all would quit telling people what is right and what is wrong when your all part of the same problem!
i would also like to add blusky that the website you had posted up there had no resources or anything of proof. Just two names that could say anything that they want to, to brain wash people like you im sorry blusky but you've made me laugh so hard today at all your posts that ive almost peed my pants! You see democrats/enviromentalists, pray for people who dont educate themselves, you believe anything that they say yet seem to ignore what really goes on. I sugest that you look up information that actually has reasourses and who write these articles.
This is exactly the reason this particular Internet Troll will never be allowed to post over on the DUNERS bulletin board. Now he's gone and wasted other people's time again. But the again, that's up to the time waster I suppose :o
Racingchick, Bluesky is NOT an environmentalist. Even the environmentalists turn their backs on him. He just uses that mask here because it's handy. Search the 'net for "Internet Troll" and you'll find many examples of him. He's less of a bother here now than he was before people started recognizing him for what he truly is, but he's still a very classic example of an Internet Troll.
We try very hard to follow the advice given by people who know the most about Internet Trolls (which is to ignore the Troll), but sometimes it's really difficult. When you see others talking nonsense (the orange hat is under the table), it's always in response to some nonsense BS has posted, and that seems pretty effective too.
Have fun playing with the Troll if that's what you really want to do, but if you read up a little about his "kind" you'll see why everyone else leaves it alone. 8)
Vicki
Racingchick, Bluesky is NOT an environmentalist. Even the environmentalists turn their backs on him. He just uses that mask here because it's handy. Search the 'net for "Internet Troll" and you'll find many examples of him. He's less of a bother here now than he was before people started recognizing him for what he truly is, but he's still a very classic example of an Internet Troll.
We try very hard to follow the advice given by people who know the most about Internet Trolls (which is to ignore the Troll), but sometimes it's really difficult. When you see others talking nonsense (the orange hat is under the table), it's always in response to some nonsense BS has posted, and that seems pretty effective too.
Have fun playing with the Troll if that's what you really want to do, but if you read up a little about his "kind" you'll see why everyone else leaves it alone. 8)
Vicki
QUOTE
Now he's gone and wasted other people's time again. But the again, that's up to the time waster I suppose
I think you'll notice that the new gal sought me out--first over at the enviro board, and then when I didn't respond to her, over here on this thread. So who's the troll?
She says she's a pro racer. She might be worried that sanctioning bodies are running out of virgin territory for new cross-country races and wants to develop the rhetoric for arguing for more land to impact. No matter, as I said before, I will continue to dialogue and will continue to learn about topics as I research them for her.
By bringing the DUNERS site up, it's almost like you're challenging me to sign up and post there. You probably have your motives for doing this.
QUOTE
Even the environmentalists turn their backs on him.
this is just a morsel that dropped from your slippery keyboard. Care to back up your claims?
racing girl--here's the credentials for David Pennock--he's a computer scientist and physicist.
http://dpennock.com/resume-8-2002.htm
Jennifer Comfort is associated with the State of Virginia Department of Environmental Quality
http://www.deq.state.va.us/p2/vip2.html
but you could have searched that as well as I
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Ok Mr. Blusky if your so smart what happens when things get hot? they expand. And what happens when things get cold? THe shrink. The earth's tempture is getting colder but yet were having a global warming? LoL I don't think so.
In the first place, I never said I was smart. I'm just diligent.
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what happens when things get hot? they expand. And what happens when things get cold? THe shrink.
If you call that science or logic or proof, you've got a lot to learn.
BTW, we can talk all day about global warming and other impacts of our technology on the environment. The main reason we are here at this site is to discuss the impacts of motor vehicle recreation on the land. Do you acknowledge the effects of vehicles on our natural areas?
Ok sorry i didnt know you all ignored him =) I see alot of people on the board talking with him about topics such as this so i thought id join. By the way, when you guys have these gatherings where do you go? Me and my boyfriend heard that alot of you camp in the washes and have big yellow flags but we didnt see any. Also when you have these gatherings are they all adults or some teens to? (Probably asking this under the wrong topic) hehe 
The gatherings are "usually" at wash 13.5. They are a mixed group of teens all the way up to older kids (40, 50, 60) with younger kids (2- 15). If you like to sit by the fire and shoot the poop over some you can do that. IUf you like to stay up till the we hours and drink and party we have a little bit of that too. If you want to do nothing that is entirely possible too. Its a great bunch of people and they are very fun to hang out and dune with. Come on out!
Blueser..... well he is someone who will run his mouth offf until you get upset with him. Furthermore when you have him in a position that he cant handle he will stop answering or change the subject. You are better off just letting him sit here and type to himself in hopes of finding someone who will talk back to him. Unfortunately this ass prolly has very few friends and finds that its easier to get somebody to talk to him by using a message board that isnt even in his interests. Its the, if nobody will talk to me face to face I will hide behind my PC and and find ways to antagonize people with my environmental rhetoric, deal. Same reason he doesnt come out to the clean ups and help with the so called problem of his beloved dunes. WHAT A EFFIN JOKE!
Welcome to da board!
you can do that. IUf you like to stay up till the we hours and drink and party we have a little bit of that too. If you want to do nothing that is entirely possible too. Its a great bunch of people and they are very fun to hang out and dune with. Come on out!
Blueser..... well he is someone who will run his mouth offf until you get upset with him. Furthermore when you have him in a position that he cant handle he will stop answering or change the subject. You are better off just letting him sit here and type to himself in hopes of finding someone who will talk back to him. Unfortunately this ass prolly has very few friends and finds that its easier to get somebody to talk to him by using a message board that isnt even in his interests. Its the, if nobody will talk to me face to face I will hide behind my PC and and find ways to antagonize people with my environmental rhetoric, deal. Same reason he doesnt come out to the clean ups and help with the so called problem of his beloved dunes. WHAT A EFFIN JOKE!
Welcome to da board!
lmao well thanks for the information, What am i suppose to look for at wash 13? Do you all go on big rides together? Not slow ones but the hella fast "oh god im gonna die" type? lol
The group i go with camps in gecko (for the most part) I'm the oldest out of the "teens" and taking little kiddies out on there lt80s isnt to fun. haha
Also the girls who are my age would rather sit inside the motorhome redoing there hair and makeup every 5 seconds. Then there are the adults who maybe just MAYBE go on one ride out of the trip they just sit around and drink beer (dont get me wrong drinkin is fun 2) lol So i am usally a LONE RIDER lol I have a cr250 and a 250r honda 89 model, i race out at the tracks in cali but i need some people at glamis who love to ride as much as me! Whenever my boyfriend goes out he always has something to fix on his BANSHEE!! LOL so i sit around helping him work on it. I wanna ride with the true glamis duners! I have been riding since i was 3 yrs old so u fellas might wanna try to keep up with me =)
The group i go with camps in gecko (for the most part) I'm the oldest out of the "teens" and taking little kiddies out on there lt80s isnt to fun. haha
Also the girls who are my age would rather sit inside the motorhome redoing there hair and makeup every 5 seconds. Then there are the adults who maybe just MAYBE go on one ride out of the trip they just sit around and drink beer (dont get me wrong drinkin is fun 2) lol So i am usally a LONE RIDER lol I have a cr250 and a 250r honda 89 model, i race out at the tracks in cali but i need some people at glamis who love to ride as much as me! Whenever my boyfriend goes out he always has something to fix on his BANSHEE!! LOL so i sit around helping him work on it. I wanna ride with the true glamis duners! I have been riding since i was 3 yrs old so u fellas might wanna try to keep up with me =)
We usually camp on Gecko Road, somewhere along pad 2.5 and it sounds like our camp is just like the 13.5 camp :o (some drink, some don't, bikes, quads, buggies...)
Hondaracingchick... DUNERS is thinking of sponsoring more than just beginning classes... something along the lines of maybe different rides for different age groups. Like we were thinking of announcing a place and time for a "teen" ride so that teens from different camps would meet up and then go duning together.
Just some thoughts.
Vicki
Hondaracingchick... DUNERS is thinking of sponsoring more than just beginning classes... something along the lines of maybe different rides for different age groups. Like we were thinking of announcing a place and time for a "teen" ride so that teens from different camps would meet up and then go duning together.
Just some thoughts.
Vicki
lol well thats pretty cool, are there anymore big weekends coming up? i mean besides easter? This season went by so fast! I miss glamis so much already =..(.. Easter is nice cuz its hot and all those hot guys are riding w/o there shirts WOO HOO lol, I also dont mind the age of people on the rides as long as tere fast =) I also wanna drag race at places like olds,china and the drags i hate comp cuz theres to many whoops! Let me know if anyone wants to race!
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