I couldn't find a news story on this, but I heard it on the radio today. Rodger Hedgecok (sp?), a San Diego talk radio host, was filling in for Rush Limbaugh. He had Wisconsin Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner on the radio, talking about immigration reform, etc. Well, Sensenbrenner mentioned one of the many problems with illegal immigrants crossing the border is that they "trample endangered species." He followed that up by saying he didn't know "which species" had been trampled or in what specific areas, just that he was told this is a problem.

I don't think I have to explain to all of you that this issue, true or not, has many potential implications that we should pay attention to.

More later...

"The boys are in the truck
and they're ready to go.
It's a ______ shooting boogey
Don'tcha know"

now here's a real moral dillema for them bleeding hearts, eh
maybe we should outlaw illegal immigrants...
or better yet, we'll give 'em specific trails to stay on so they don't hurt the little critters.

No no no. Have bus stations at all holes in the fence to pick them up and take them wherever they need to go.

Don't forget! The whole economic base of this country depends on illegal immigrants and their skill of cleaning hotel rooms and picking fruit!

HAHAHAHA i think we could deal with a higher price of fruit with all the money we would save not having to pay for sending their kids to school and for them to have free healthcare, because we know all know that they pay their taxes

Yeah, we should get rid of those wetbacks....friggin krauts, poles, micks, reds, and wops need to go the hell back to europe and leave the good ol' states to their rightful owners....THE MEXICANS.

"Your Environmental Opinion...ntelligent (and not so intelligent) environmental discussions"

Well, I can see which part of the forum description most of this thread is following...

The Indians were here when your Mama got thrown off the boat...the rest of you are just pretenders to the throne.

Apaches, Navajos, Comanches, etc. were relatives of the Mayans and Aztecs. Look it up.


Angry, you seem to follow me throughout all these topics.


ARE YOU STALKING ME??????????????????

half right is more than zero right, whitey!!

Folks, let's keep the racial stuff out of this discussion please. This is the Environmental Opinion area, not Politically Incorrect....

Oh, lighten up!

The issue Roger has been going on about is that the liberals are blocking the completion of the border fence because of environmental concerns. When the fact is the foot traffic from illegals is far more destructive to the environment then a truck driving in to drop of materials.
The liberals will just deal with this like all others where they are conflicted. They will bury their head in the ground and hope it goes away.

So if a million u.s. citizens go out there and walk around for a month, they'd be ok with it?

Thanks for the input Brian and Vicki. I was really sick when I first posted this so I didn't expand my thoughts.

Basically my thinking is this... this congressman from way over in Wisconsin made a point of bringing up the endangered species in CA on a nationally syndicated radio show. It seems obvious to me from his lack of knowledge on the subject that he cares little about the endangered species but is using them as an excuse to further his cause against illegals.

We should learn from this. How could this effect our riding areas? This congressman stated, almost as if it were a true fact, that the illegals are trampling the endangered species. Where is his sound science backing that up? I'm not defending the illegals here, just drawing a parallel to off-roading. Gubmint types don't have to be right for millions of people to believe them.

The other side of the coin is... off-roaders may help prevent illegal immigration by scaring them away from being seen. I know... pipe dream. But could you imagine a congressperson on a syndicated radio show saying that we need more off-roading areas in border states because it helps prevent illegal immigration?

Just looking at things from a different perspective...

Additional thoughts?

Thats why I made the point about if it is ok for a million U.S. citizens to trample the area but not illegals.

His agenda is the illegals, not the environment.

Enviros are not TOPS!

I don't know who "his" is, but if there's an issue with anything other than the subject of the thread, it should go to PMs and let the thread survive.

Like I said, the anti-access groups do not discriminate as to who or what is doing the alleged trampling. And the sad part is, they don't truly care much about even what is allegedly being trampled.

It's just another way for them to make a buck and get their names in the paper... or on the radio, as the case may be

Vicki

[edited for foolish spelling errors]

Critics slam bill that exempts fence from environment laws

By Terry Rodgers
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
February 14, 2005


PEGGY PEATTIE / Union-Tribune
The move was the political equivalent of a wrestler's body slam. Voting 261-161, the House of Representatives approved a bill this week intended to deter terrorists and illegal immigrants from breaching the nation's borders.

Included in the bill was language to exempt the final 3½ miles of a controversial fence project along the U.S.-Mexico border from all state and federal environmental laws, including the Clean Water Act.

"National security is increasingly being linked to many environmental issues," said Brian Segee, a Washington, D.C., attorney for Defenders of Wildlife. "It's not only brought up in the context of the border, where that link is clear. We increasingly see it linked to energy development and other instances involving natural resources."

If approved by the Senate, the sweeping exemption provided by the House bill would apply to any future fences and security zones sought by the Department of Homeland Security anywhere along the nation's 1,933-mile border with Mexico and 3,987-mile border with Canada.

"This bill is incredibly over-reaching," Segee said. "The Border Patrol and Office of Homeland Security can ignore labor laws, civil rights laws and environmental laws as long as it involves construction of a barrier or road along the U.S. border."

Proponents say an impenetrable triple-fenced surveillance zone with motion sensors and bright lights is essential to the nation's effort to deter terrorists, drug smugglers and illegal immigrants from crossing into the United States.

Last year, the California Coastal Commission ruled the project was far more destructive to the environment than necessary and pushed for a compromise.

The project, which would have a footprint as wide as a four-lane freeway, includes installation of two new fences along with roads that require massive grading of rare habitat and filling in steep canyons. Erosion from re-sculpting the landscape could choke the Tijuana River estuary, an internationally renowned wetland sanctuary.

San Diego Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, R-Escondido, who voted in favor of the bill, said in a prepared statement: "The bottom line is that we must put homeland security first. We need to know who is coming into our country."

Cunningham blamed ongoing scientific studies for delaying the project's completion, but that assertion is erroneous. In 1996, Congress exempted the project from the Endangered Species Act.

"It's not a matter of studies at all," said Jim Peugh of the San Diego Audubon Society. "We already know this project would be horrendously damaging. It's simply a matter of coming up with a project that minimizes damage to the environment and offsets the losses."

Congress has approved limited environmental exemptions for various projects, including the clearing of dead wood from national forests.

In 1998, then-Rep. Ron Packard, R-Oceanside, sponsored legislation exempting the Foothill-South toll road in southern Orange County from a law prohibiting highway construction on government-owned parkland.

In 2003, active military training ranges, including Camp Pendleton in San Diego County, were exempted from the Marine Mammal Protection Act and the Endangered Species Act as long as they complete resource-management plans.

Karen Wayland, legislative director for the Natural Resources Defense Council, said the Department of Defense is seeking additional waivers from hazardous waste and Superfund cleanup laws enforced by the Environmental Protection Agency.

The border fence exemption, she said, "is part and parcel of a move to get out from compliance of all the laws that ultraconservatives find offensive."

The House bill includes a provision barring lawsuits challenging border security projects.

"There would be no judicial review, no way for anyone to protest the waivers that the Department of Homeland Security might put into place," she said. "We're basically allowing one federal official who is not elected to have unprecedented power to get out from under the rule of law."

Adam Keats, a lawyer for the Center for Biological Diversity in San Francisco, said the measure would preclude the public from having a voice on homeland security projects in border communities.

"What proposals like this are doing is throwing away 30 to 40 years of good laws that have been enacted to protect the environment and include the public in these decisions," Keats said.

Environmentalists caught off guard by the swiftness of the House Republicans' victory are circling back to attack the waiver provisions when they are reviewed by the Senate.

"It's a sad day when environmental destruction is wrapped around the cloak of the politics of fear," said Peter Douglas, executive director of the Coastal Commission, whose efforts to forge a compromise on the border fence are now in ruins. "Hopefully the Senate will be more understanding of how environmental protection and security are not that far apart and can be reconciled."

It's a sad day when national security is wrapped around the cloak of the politics of environmental fear

About time we got our priorities in order. If the enviros hadn't cried wolf so many times and blocked things on false premesis then maybe they could have gotten some kind of comprimise. But finally the politicians (and hopefully the general public) are starting to wise up to that game.

Crazy.

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