Up4Dunes
Mar 14 2005, 10:50 AM
I am to the point that I need to choose a transmission. For around 15k I can get a Fortin with a torque converter or an S5 with the air shifter. I really like the idea of an Air shifter however I am kind of scared of Mendiola.
Doug Fortin senior says anything over 500 HP he likes to use a torque converter no need for a clutch and hooks up better. How much power is lost with a torque converter?
Are there any problems with S5’s? Have they been breaking? I plan on at least 500HP in a 2600 lb car.
Dunaholic
Mar 14 2005, 10:56 AM
If I had my druthers, I would so the Fortin. They are some nice trannies for sure.
Xtreme Motorsports
Mar 14 2005, 10:58 AM
$15K for a torque convertor fortin??????
Try adding at least another $6,000 minimum. I got a quote on one last Thursday.
$15K for an S5 with paddles shifter????? Ya right. I've done one and it's at least $18K by the time you get a CO2 tank and plumbing, not counting labor to install it.
Who quoted you those prices?
HozaykwAIRvo
Mar 14 2005, 11:03 AM
totally unrelated but... love the sig. Alan
Xtreme Motorsports
Mar 14 2005, 11:05 AM
I know but i would recommend the Fortin without hesitation but when he see's the real price tag he may have a heart attack. Only thinking of others health.
HozaykwAIRvo
Mar 14 2005, 11:16 AM
QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Mar 14 2005, 11:05 AM)
I know but i would recommend the Fortin without hesitation but when he see's the real price tag he may have a heart attack. Only thinking of others health.
[right][snapback]902584[/snapback][/right]
meant my post that was unrelated
not yours
Up4Dunes
Mar 14 2005, 12:49 PM
QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Mar 14 2005, 10:58 AM)
$15K for a torque convertor fortin??????
Try adding at least another $6,000 minimum. I got a quote on one last Thursday.
$15K for an S5 with paddles shifter????? Ya right. I've done one and it's at least $18K by the time you get a CO2 tank and plumbing, not counting labor to install it.
Who quoted you those prices?
[right][snapback]902561[/snapback][/right]
Which one would you rather have? Actualy after redoing the math I am up to 18k for the fortin with the converter. Hadnt considered the instalation cost of the air shifter.
RADROG
Mar 14 2005, 01:43 PM
With 500 HP the S5 should be plenty strong. Don't know much about air shifter cost, reliability, etc. Why do you want an air shifter anyway?
Chummin
Mar 14 2005, 02:11 PM
The Air shifter would allow for having shift paddles on the steering wheel
Xtreme Motorsports
Mar 14 2005, 02:24 PM
I'd go with the Fortin, hands down. 2 year warranty on the tranny. No other builder comes close to that.
The Fortin is right about $17,000. When i said in the 20's i thought it was a sequential shifting trans. if it's just the standard H pattern four speed, in my opinion it's the best transaxle on the market. It's less than the S5 and WAY stronger. The S5 with paddle shifter would have a better cool factor but the Fortin is a better trans.
ISBB
Mar 14 2005, 03:03 PM
Xtreme Motorsporst... do they offer the torque converter style tranny w/ the H pattern i dont think it would to well... i think the torque converter style only comes w/ the sequential shift... just a up and down motion much quicker and easier than the h pattern... but what do i know i dont own or build these thigns...
Up4Dunes
Mar 14 2005, 05:11 PM
QUOTE(ISBB @ Mar 14 2005, 03:03 PM)
Xtreme Motorsporst... do they offer the torque converter style tranny w/ the H pattern i dont think it would to well... i think the torque converter style only comes w/ the sequential shift... just a up and down motion much quicker and easier than the h pattern... but what do i know i dont own or build these thigns...
[right][snapback]903057[/snapback][/right]
Can come with clutch or torque converter. Torque converter hooks up better and never need to change clutch. Easyer on cv's also. They have been winning the races.
Up4Dunes
Mar 14 2005, 05:13 PM
QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Mar 14 2005, 02:24 PM)
I'd go with the Fortin, hands down. 2 year warranty on the tranny. No other builder comes close to that.
The Fortin is right about $17,000. When i said in the 20's i thought it was a sequential shifting trans. if it's just the standard H pattern four speed, in my opinion it's the best transaxle on the market. It's less than the S5 and WAY stronger. The S5 with paddle shifter would have a better cool factor but the Fortin is a better trans.
[right][snapback]902959[/snapback][/right]
Isnt the S5 just an s4 with a five speed? I thought they were aroud 12k?
CHRIS J
Mar 14 2005, 05:15 PM
fortin no question. you dont need the torque converter. unless you just want to say you have one. buddys funco went 2 seasons without even a prep. fortin all the way
Up4Dunes
Mar 14 2005, 05:58 PM
QUOTE(CHRIS J @ Mar 14 2005, 05:15 PM)
fortin no question. you dont need the torque converter. unless you just want to say you have one. buddys funco went 2 seasons without even a prep. fortin all the way
[right][snapback]903400[/snapback][/right]
Did youre buddy use fortin Cv's on his funco?
woodster
Mar 14 2005, 06:07 PM
I would go with the S4 if it was me..Alot cheaper and they seem to be holding up really well. A guy I know has around 15K miles on his preunner running the S5 with no probs. Ive heard of quite a few Fortins breaking also. And with Fortin you are stuck having only Fortin to work on your stuff..Basically they can charge u whatever they want.Also I think you have to run there clutches as well..
Up4Dunes
Mar 14 2005, 07:06 PM
QUOTE(woodster @ Mar 14 2005, 06:07 PM)
I would go with the S4 if it was me..Alot cheaper and they seem to be holding up really well. A guy I know has around 15K miles on his preunner running the S5 with no probs. Ive heard of quite a few Fortins breaking also. And with Fortin you are stuck having only Fortin to work on your stuff..Basically they can charge u whatever they want.Also I think you have to run there clutches as well..
[right][snapback]903504[/snapback][/right]
I like the idea of a padle shifter
Xtreme Motorsports
Mar 14 2005, 07:20 PM
QUOTE(woodster @ Mar 14 2005, 06:07 PM)
. And with Fortin you are stuck having only Fortin to work on your stuff..Basically they can charge u whatever they want.[right][snapback]903504[/snapback][/right]
That's not entirely true. There are a couple guys that work on Fortin trannies. Think of it this way, there's not another transaxles builder on the market that believes in their own product enough to give a warranty. Only Fortin believes in their product so much that they'll give you a 2 year warranty on it. that says something about the product.
Xtreme Motorsports
Mar 14 2005, 07:22 PM
QUOTE(Up4Dunes @ Mar 14 2005, 05:13 PM)
QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Mar 14 2005, 02:24 PM)
I'd go with the Fortin, hands down. 2 year warranty on the tranny. No other builder comes close to that.
The Fortin is right about $17,000. When i said in the 20's i thought it was a sequential shifting trans. if it's just the standard H pattern four speed, in my opinion it's the best transaxle on the market. It's less than the S5 and WAY stronger. The S5 with paddle shifter would have a better cool factor but the Fortin is a better trans.
[right][snapback]902959[/snapback][/right]
Isnt the S5 just an s4 with a five speed? I thought they were aroud 12k?
[right][snapback]903390[/snapback][/right]
They are about $12K but the paddle shifter assembly runs around $4000 and the air tank and plumbing runs another $700 +/- and that doesn't include assembly. Two full days of labor for installation if your bookin'. Three if you want a flawless, perfect looking installation
Up4Dunes
Mar 14 2005, 07:39 PM
QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Mar 14 2005, 07:22 PM)
QUOTE(Up4Dunes @ Mar 14 2005, 05:13 PM)
QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Mar 14 2005, 02:24 PM)
I'd go with the Fortin, hands down. 2 year warranty on the tranny. No other builder comes close to that.
The Fortin is right about $17,000. When i said in the 20's i thought it was a sequential shifting trans. if it's just the standard H pattern four speed, in my opinion it's the best transaxle on the market. It's less than the S5 and WAY stronger. The S5 with paddle shifter would have a better cool factor but the Fortin is a better trans.
[right][snapback]902959[/snapback][/right]
Isnt the S5 just an s4 with a five speed? I thought they were aroud 12k?
[right][snapback]903390[/snapback][/right]
They are about $12K but the paddle shifter assembly runs around $4000 and the air tank and plumbing runs another $700 +/- and that doesn't include assembly. Two full days of labor for installation if your bookin'. Three if you want a flawless, perfect looking installation
[right][snapback]903611[/snapback][/right]
Just realized the air shifter does not have a reverse. That would kind of suck. What hapens if the botle goes empty? Whats in it?
Would you bother with the torque converter on the forten?
Xtreme Motorsports
Mar 14 2005, 07:42 PM
I would absolutely go with the torque convertor over the clutch setup. Stonger hookup with less strain on the CV's. How nice is that?
woodster
Mar 14 2005, 07:54 PM
QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Mar 14 2005, 07:20 PM)
QUOTE(woodster @ Mar 14 2005, 06:07 PM)
. And with Fortin you are stuck having only Fortin to work on your stuff..Basically they can charge u whatever they want.[right][snapback]903504[/snapback][/right]
That's not entirely true. There are a couple guys that work on Fortin trannies. Think of it this way, there's not another transaxles builder on the market that believes in their own product enough to give a warranty. Only Fortin believes in their product so much that they'll give you a 2 year warranty on it. that says something about the product.
[right][snapback]903605[/snapback][/right]
Ya but when u think about, that extra 8 grand thats spent on a Fortin could do a few rebuilds on a mende.. I would think the S4 in a sandcar with 500HP would last 2 seasons easy..At least thats what im hoping with my car
I wish I could have got the paddle shifter also but not enough funds..Maybe in the future though
Screamin Ian
Mar 14 2005, 08:02 PM
its all about the Fortin, I was going with the S4, ended up with the Fortin, and alot of other people are making the switch too.
woodster
Mar 14 2005, 08:06 PM
QUOTE(Screamin Ian @ Mar 14 2005, 08:02 PM)
its all about the Fortin, I was going with the S4, ended up with the Fortin, and alot of other people are making the switch too.
[right][snapback]903680[/snapback][/right]
Ian which Fortin did u end up going with??
Fireballsocal
Mar 14 2005, 08:44 PM
I can't believe that people are willing to spend upwards of $20,000 for 1 transmission that if it lasts 2 seasons, they will be happy. I would go with a V8 rail and a $6,000 TH350 or even a glide before I dropped $20,000 on one componant of a sand car.
To each their own on what they wish to install in their car. I just found myself asking "WHY?" as I read this thread.
Up4Dunes
Mar 14 2005, 08:50 PM
QUOTE(woodster @ Mar 14 2005, 06:07 PM)
I would go with the S4 if it was me..Alot cheaper and they seem to be holding up really well. A guy I know has around 15K miles on his preunner running the S5 with no probs. Ive heard of quite a few Fortins breaking also. And with Fortin you are stuck having only Fortin to work on your stuff..Basically they can charge u whatever they want.Also I think you have to run there clutches as well..
[right][snapback]903504[/snapback][/right]
How were the fortins broke?
woodster
Mar 14 2005, 09:01 PM
Dirtracer here on the boards said a camp next to them had a Fortin sequential break. I have a couple of buddies who build cars and have heard some stories from them as well.. Bottom line is anything can be broke. I know theres a couple guys running E box mendes behind Ls1's with no probs. Your gonna hear bad stories about everything..
HI turtle
Mar 14 2005, 09:10 PM
QUOTE(Fireballsocal @ Mar 14 2005, 08:44 PM)
I can't believe that people are willing to spend upwards of $20,000 for 1 transmission that if it lasts 2 seasons, they will be happy. I would go with a V8 rail and a $6,000 TH350 or even a glide before I dropped $20,000 on one componant of a sand car.
To each their own on what they wish to install in their car. I just found myself asking "WHY?" as I read this thread.
[right][snapback]903778[/snapback][/right]
I have to agree with Fireballsocal. For $20,000 you could get the entire drivetrain from engine, trans, and rearend with a V8rail. But it's hard to switch your thinking and it seems to me that most people prefer the engine behind them.
If that's the case, you're stuck looking for a transaxle and spending the $$$ for one that might last a season behind a high power V8. I personally like the V8 rail and would find it hard to spend the money on any buggy that runs a transaxle. But getting back to the tread, I think the Fortin with a torque converter would be a good choice.
Up4Dunes
Mar 14 2005, 09:11 PM
What about an S4 with a torque converter that sounds like it would be cool? Any one know if thats been done? I bet it would be bullit proof.
Xtreme Motorsports
Mar 14 2005, 10:17 PM
A standard four speed Fortin runs around $14,500. A Far cry from $20,000. In addition a Fortin behind a 450 HP LS1 will last much longer than 2 seasons.
RoosterBooster
Mar 14 2005, 10:42 PM
QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Mar 14 2005, 10:58 AM)
$15K for a torque convertor fortin??????
Try adding at least another $6,000 minimum. I got a quote on one last Thursday.
$15K for an S5 with paddles shifter????? Ya right. I've done one and it's at least $18K by the time you get a CO2 tank and plumbing, not counting labor to install it.
Who quoted you those prices?
[right][snapback]902561[/snapback][/right]
Alan, is it now $14,500 or $21k
Xtreme Motorsports
Mar 14 2005, 11:26 PM
You can get a standard 4 speed for $14,500. The torque convertor, sequential, etc, etc is over $20K.
revenge
Mar 15 2005, 06:17 AM
I have run both trannies in the sand and racing/pre running. There is no doubt that the Fortin is stronger than the S5. From a part size comparison and a longevity comparison as well. You can get the converter in any Fortin trans, H pattern or sequential and if you have ever driven a Fortin then you will find that shifting a converter is same as normal if not better. You can run any clutch you want in a fortin or S5 but the converter is better on parts. At 500hp and in the sand you can run either trans and have no issues but in the off road you should lean towards the fortin. Pluss the warrantee is nice. If cost is an issue then make your own call on that one but if it is not then there is only one choice for you and that is the Fortin. Just my .02 Justin
Up4Dunes
Mar 15 2005, 07:08 AM
QUOTE(revenge @ Mar 15 2005, 06:17 AM)
I have run both trannies in the sand and racing/pre running. There is no doubt that the Fortin is stronger than the S5. From a part size comparison and a longevity comparison as well. You can get the converter in any Fortin trans, H pattern or sequential and if you have ever driven a Fortin then you will find that shifting a converter is same as normal if not better. You can run any clutch you want in a fortin or S5 but the converter is better on parts. At 500hp and in the sand you can run either trans and have no issues but in the off road you should lean towards the fortin. Pluss the warrantee is nice. If cost is an issue then make your own call on that one but if it is not then there is only one choice for you and that is the Fortin. Just my .02 Justin
[right][snapback]904016[/snapback][/right]
Have you run a torque converter? Woud a torque converter work on the Mendeola S4?
Screamin Ian
Mar 15 2005, 07:08 AM
QUOTE(Screamin Ian @ Mar 14 2005, 08:02 PM)
its all about the Fortin, I was going with the S4, ended up with the Fortin, and alot of other people are making the switch too.
[right][snapback]903680[/snapback][/right]
standard 5 speed.
RIDERED
Mar 15 2005, 10:11 AM
QUOTE(Fireballsocal @ Mar 14 2005, 08:44 PM)
To each their own on what they wish to install in their car. I just found myself asking "WHY?" as I read this thread.
[right][snapback]903778[/snapback][/right]
Because people have the money to do it.
RIDERED
Mar 15 2005, 10:37 AM
I did it just so I could tell people that I have one.
Really though the S4 is so bitchen and I love it. It takes a beating and keeps on spinning. The best part is when I give people rides and they look over and see me just slam it in gear with out even moving my left foot. Now that I have it I couldn’t imagine not having one.
Hey Alan nice quote on the bottom. Where did you get that?
Xtreme Motorsports
Mar 15 2005, 11:04 AM
QUOTE(RIDERED @ Mar 15 2005, 10:37 AM)
I did it just so I could tell people that I have one.
Really though the S4 is so bitchen and I love it. It takes a beating and keeps on spinning. The best part is when I give people rides and they look over and see me just slam it in gear with out even moving my left foot. Now that I have it I couldn’t imagine not having one.
Hey Alan nice quote on the bottom. Where did you get that?
[right][snapback]904453[/snapback][/right]
I just made it up one day
Up4Dunes
Mar 15 2005, 11:21 AM
Has anyone ever heard of an S4 or S5 with a torque converter? Seems to me that might be the hot setup
CHRIS J
Mar 15 2005, 11:25 AM
QUOTE(Up4Dunes @ Mar 14 2005, 05:58 PM)
QUOTE(CHRIS J @ Mar 14 2005, 05:15 PM)
fortin no question. you dont need the torque converter. unless you just want to say you have one. buddys funco went 2 seasons without even a prep. fortin all the way
[right][snapback]903400[/snapback][/right]
Did youre buddy use fortin Cv's on his funco?
[right][snapback]903494[/snapback][/right]
in response to UP4DUNES he has standard 930's with fortin cages!!!
Up4Dunes
Mar 15 2005, 11:28 AM
QUOTE(CHRIS J @ Mar 15 2005, 11:25 AM)
QUOTE(Up4Dunes @ Mar 14 2005, 05:58 PM)
QUOTE(CHRIS J @ Mar 14 2005, 05:15 PM)
fortin no question. you dont need the torque converter. unless you just want to say you have one. buddys funco went 2 seasons without even a prep. fortin all the way
[right][snapback]903400[/snapback][/right]
Did youre buddy use fortin Cv's on his funco?
[right][snapback]903494[/snapback][/right]
in response to UP4DUNES he has standard 930's with fortin cages!!!
[right][snapback]904555[/snapback][/right]
Doug senior says the torque converter will out perform the clutch. The set them to hook up at 2800 rpm so when you nail it the engine has a chance to get the R's up and it like a slingshot. Well maybe it was 2200 RPM's
revenge
Mar 15 2005, 12:05 PM
I have driven both trannies with a clutch and a Fortin with a converter. There are may parts that are designed for a Fortin only to make the converter work. As of now there is not a converter system available for the Mendis. Unless you want to spend the R n D money to be the first you will have to wait for them to do it. Good luck, Justin
sanddunesaddict
Mar 15 2005, 02:28 PM
QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Mar 14 2005, 07:20 PM)
QUOTE(woodster @ Mar 14 2005, 06:07 PM)
. And with Fortin you are stuck having only Fortin to work on your stuff..Basically they can charge u whatever they want.[right][snapback]903504[/snapback][/right]
That's not entirely true. There are a couple guys that work on Fortin trannies. Think of it this way, there's not another transaxles builder on the market that believes in their own product enough to give a warranty. Only Fortin believes in their product so much that they'll give you a 2 year warranty on it. that says something about the product.
[right][snapback]903605[/snapback][/right]
so are you going to go to the dunes every weekend for 2 years to see if it breaks in that time?
Xtreme Motorsports
Mar 15 2005, 03:03 PM
huh?
RIDERED
Mar 15 2005, 03:34 PM
He said.
"so are you going to go to the dunes every weekend for 2 years to see if it breaks in that time?"
Xtreme Motorsports
Mar 15 2005, 03:35 PM
OHH, I get it now....
Wait... no i don't.
RIDERED
Mar 15 2005, 03:37 PM
QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Mar 15 2005, 03:35 PM)
OHH, I get it now....
Wait... no i don't.
[right][snapback]905092[/snapback][/right]
Are you going out this weekend?
Xtreme Motorsports
Mar 15 2005, 04:07 PM
Probably not. That's my problem.
Batoutahell
Mar 15 2005, 04:24 PM
QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Mar 15 2005, 04:07 PM)
Probably not. That's my problem.
[right][snapback]905177[/snapback][/right]
Mine tooo!!!!!!!
RIDERED
Mar 15 2005, 04:27 PM
QUOTE(Xtreme Motorsports @ Mar 15 2005, 04:07 PM)
Probably not. That's my problem.
[right][snapback]905177[/snapback][/right]
There is your answer sanddunnesaddict.
Damn Alan that wasn’t hard to understand.
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