It looks like someone might actually be listening to some of our questions.
Message from the ASA
ASA BOARD OF DIRECTORS OPEN MEETING
Residence Inn by Marriott
8242 North Black Canyon Highway
Phoenix, AZ
APRIL 2, 2005
9AM - 4PM
Sponsored by RATV/MX Warehouse
Glendale, AZ 623 915 3465
At 2 PM, GET THE FACTS ABOUT
OFF-ROAD REGISTRATION & LAWS
The ASA will host a Panel of the Law Enforcement Experts that directly influence
how the ISDRA is operated.
*Confirmed as of this writing:
· Daphne Greene, Deputy Director, OHMVR Division California State Parks
· Lt. Steve Gutierrez, Imperial County Sheriffs' Office
· Ed Jahrke, Program Manager, Watercraft & OHV Law Enforcement Arizona
Game & Fish Department
· Ray Leloup, Chief Ranger, Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area*
The American Sand Association (ASA) receives numerous questions and comments
from Sand Sport enthusiast's regarding OHV registration, laws and rules. Many
of our 20,000 members visit various recreation areas in Arizona, Nevada, and
California. The rules are not the same in all jurisdictions. In the case of the Imperial Sand Dunes on the high use holidays, visiting law enforcement coalition personnel may not be fully aware of enforcement practices for "off" weekends.
*Some of the questions we are asking are listed below - please submit those you have at the meeting or to GlamisOnLine@earthlink.net ) by March 31st.*
1. Is a red tail light required at the ISDRA even if you are not riding at night?
2. Is a brake light required to be legal at the ISDRA?
3. Is there reciprocity between Ariz. and Calif. regarding street legal ATV's and Golf Carts?
4. Is a light required on your whip if you are riding at night?
5. Is it illegal to ride double in Calif. and Ariz. if the manufacture says the ATV is designed for two people?
6. If it is legal to ride double on an ATV that is designed for two by the manufacture.
Then if a regular ATV is modified with the same equipment, is it legal to ride double on it?
7. Are the sound limits in Calif. just for ATV's and motorcycles or all off road vehicles?
8. Some people have received tickets at the ISDRA for no spark arrestor, why would this apply when there isn't a danger of starting a fire? What does the spark arrestor law say? Isn't there a common sense factor that should be applied?
Is this a matter of the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law?
Are spark arrestors required on an OHV's equipped with a turbo charger?
9. Can you ride your Ariz. street legal Golf cart or ATV on maintained roads in Calif.?
10. Does an Ariz. resident with a Ariz. RV plate on their ATV, Sandrail, or Golf cart need to buy a non-resident sticker from Calif. to be legal in Calif. to ride Off Road?
11. If you are riding a motorcycle off-road in Calif., do you need to wear a Helmet?
12. Where is it legal to use my unlicensed ATV, Golf Cart, or Sand rail in Ariz.?
13. In Calif., is it legal to drive an OHV off road if your driver
license has been revoked?
14. Are most Calif. off road regulations the same as in Ariz. or Nevada.?
15. When the Calif. Green Sticker program pays for improvements in an area, do they continue to fund the maintenance on that improvement?
16. With the visitation that the ISDRA gets, why doesn't that area get more Green Sticker money?
17. Do the land managers and the law enforcement agencies have a responsibility
to identify and correct inconsistent development and application of laws and rules in adjacent recreation areas? Within a single agency, across state lines and among similar local, state and federal agencies? If so, what is the process for doing so? How can the OHV community help? (i.e., burning pallets and dumping gray water-BLM Barstow and El Centro Field Office rules are not the same)
18. Are fireworks illegal in a Government directed area such as the dunes? What is enforcement policy?
19. Why isn't the Border Patrol more active in law enforcement in the dunes?
The American Sand Association
Unite, Inform and Mobilize
Full Version: Asa Meeting
QUOTE
It looks like someone might actually be listening to some of our questions.
All the time.
We will probably go to this. Great chance to ask questions and get a straight answer. 
Da Queen
Da Queen
QUOTE(KingGlamis @ Mar 21 2005, 08:45 AM)
We will probably go to this. Great chance to ask questions and get a straight answer.
Da Queen
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Da Queen
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I have been to almost all of the meetings and townhall gathereings in the San Diego area. Whenever someone spoke up and asked questions, the looks on the people that were from BLM, F&WS, and the ASA representatives seemed like "yeah, yeah, we've heard it all". This is just my perception, but was echoed throughout the crowds as we left. I realize these folks have very busy agendas and attend many of these meetings, but the feeling I get is we're wasting their time.
Just my $.02
PWR MAD, were you at the last (8/21/04) ASA BOD meeting in San Diego? I thought that was a very interactive meeting. Lots of good info. I've only been to 2 of them in San Diego though.
QUOTE(LoBuck @ Mar 21 2005, 01:35 PM)
PWR MAD, were you at the last (8/21/04) ASA BOD meeting in San Diego? I thought that was a very interactive meeting. Lots of good info. I've only been to 2 of them in San Diego though.
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That's the only meeting that I've heard about within driving distance of me in the last year or so that I've been actively trying to inform myself. Aside from Chummin's kids I was probably the youngest one there by a decade. There were some interesting points, but there was a lot of issues I felt could have been handled in a span of minutes that seemed to drag on forever. Some people, I guess, like the sound of their own voices. I had a motor to finish building, so I dropped a few bucks and left at the (late) lunch break. It won't deter me though, I'll probably try again next time ASA passes through town. Really rare though, with the size of the affected region and the scarcity of meetings anyway, given that everyone's a volunteer...
ASA open board meetings are scheduled four times a year. We try to have them in different areas so more people can attend. The last one was in Ontario, Cal. The next one is in Pheonix on April 2nd and Anahiem is scheduled for July 23rd and San Diego area on October 22nd.
Link for next meeting: http://www.americansandassociation.org/php...pic.php?t=17738
Link for next meeting: http://www.americansandassociation.org/php...pic.php?t=17738
Don't forget there are also smaller info meetings that can be held just about anywhere - but it takes someone to organize them. If you want to see more of them in your area contact the ASA Event Coordinator or the CA Event Coordinator or if you're in AZ then the AZ Event Coordinator. Usually all it takes to get an info meeting is finding a shop or other place to hold it. Usual dune related shops are happy to help host them as they get people to stop by and browse.
The observation about not as many young people at the meeting should make a few things clear too. If younger people don't feel they're being represented then they should start showing up at these kinds of things and getting involved so their voices CAN be heard. Sitting around the campfire or a BBS complaining dosn't get much done - but speaking up at meetings or even joining a committee in an org to work on something you feel strongly about can get a LOT done.
The observation about not as many young people at the meeting should make a few things clear too. If younger people don't feel they're being represented then they should start showing up at these kinds of things and getting involved so their voices CAN be heard. Sitting around the campfire or a BBS complaining dosn't get much done - but speaking up at meetings or even joining a committee in an org to work on something you feel strongly about can get a LOT done.
Cool!
How about stopping by the dunes later and having an open meeting with some of us folks who will be out there?
To pass the word and share the news?
How about stopping by the dunes later and having an open meeting with some of us folks who will be out there?
To pass the word and share the news?
QUOTE(Desertdogs @ Mar 21 2005, 07:57 PM)
Cool!
How about stopping by the dunes later and having an open meeting with some of us folks who will be out there?
To pass the word and share the news?
[right][snapback]913073[/snapback][/right]
How about stopping by the dunes later and having an open meeting with some of us folks who will be out there?
To pass the word and share the news?
[right][snapback]913073[/snapback][/right]
You're out of luck ol pal. When we go to the dunes if we are'nt counting PMV we try to enjoy what we are fighting for just like the rest of you.
QUOTE(GRANT@FUNCO @ Mar 21 2005, 08:51 PM)
QUOTE(Desertdogs @ Mar 21 2005, 07:57 PM)
Cool!
How about stopping by the dunes later and having an open meeting with some of us folks who will be out there?
To pass the word and share the news?
[right][snapback]913073[/snapback][/right]
How about stopping by the dunes later and having an open meeting with some of us folks who will be out there?
To pass the word and share the news?
[right][snapback]913073[/snapback][/right]
You're out of luck ol pal. When we go to the dunes if we are'nt counting PMV we try to enjoy what we are fighting for just like the rest of you.
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enjoy those dunes grant 
QUOTE(Desertdogs @ Mar 21 2005, 08:57 PM)
Cool!
How about stopping by the dunes later and having an open meeting with some of us folks who will be out there?
To pass the word and share the news?
[right][snapback]913073[/snapback][/right]
How about stopping by the dunes later and having an open meeting with some of us folks who will be out there?
To pass the word and share the news?
[right][snapback]913073[/snapback][/right]
This is kind of what we were shooting for when we started the YumaDuner Dinner BBQs in the south dunes. They just seem to come to far between. When we do hold them its on the last Friday or Saturday of the month. Watch for a post here, on the ASA BBS and of course at www.yumaduners.com to announce them.
These are not ASA meetings, just duners getting together to discuss things. I've gotten some good comments to take to the TRT from them.
[center]ASA BOARD OF DIRECTORS OPEN MEETING
Residence Inn by Marriott
8242 North Black Canyon Highway
Phoenix, AZ
APRIL 2, 2005
9AM - 4PM
Sponsored by RATV/MX Warehouse
Glendale, AZ 623 915 3465
At 2 PM, GET THE FACTS ABOUT
OFF-ROAD REGISTRATION & LAWS
The ASA will host a Panel of the Law Enforcement Experts that directly influence how the ISDRA is operated.[/center]
Confirmed Panel Participants
· Daphne Greene, Deputy Director, OHMVR Division California State Parks
· Sgt Mark McNay, Imperial County Sheriffs' Office
· Ed Jahrke, Program Manager, Watercraft & OHV Law Enforcement Arizona Game & Fish Department
· Ray Leloup, Chief Ranger, Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area
[center]The American Sand Association (ASA) receives numerous questions and comments from Sand Sport enthusiast's regarding OHV registration, laws and rules. Many of our 20,000 members visit various recreation areas in Arizona, Nevada, and California. The rules are not the same in all jurisdictions. In the case of the Imperial Sand Dunes on the high use holidays, visiting law enforcement coalition personnel may not be fully aware of enforcement practices for "off" weekends.[/center]
Some of the questions we are asking are listed below - please submit those you have at the meeting or to GlamisOnLine@earthlink.net by March 31st.
[center]Advance Questions for Panel Consideration
Revised 3/24/2005[/center]
BLM & ICSO 1. Is a red tail light required at the ISDRA even if you are not riding at night?
BLM & ICSO 2. Is a brake light required to be legal at the ISDRA?
CA OHMVR & AZ G&F 3. Is there reciprocity between Ariz. and Calif. regarding street legal ATV's and Golf Carts?
BLM & ICSO 4. Is a light required on your whip if you are riding at night?
CA OHMVR & AZ G&F 5. Is it illegal to ride double in Calif. and Ariz. if the manufacture says the ATV is designed for two people?
CA OHMVR & AZ G&F 6. If it is legal to ride double on an ATV that is designed for two by the manufacture. Then if a regular ATV is modified with the same equipment, is it legal to ride double on it?
CA OHMVR 7. Are the sound limits in Calif. just for ATV's and motorcycles or all off road vehicles?
BLM & ICSO 8. Some people have received tickets at the ISDRA for no spark arrestor, why would this apply when there isn't a danger of starting a fire? What does the spark arrestor law say? Isn't there a common sense factor that should be applied? Is this a matter of the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law? Are spark arrestors required on an OHV's equipped with a turbo charger?
BLM & ICSO 9. Can you ride your Ariz. street legal Golf cart or ATV on maintained roads in Calif.?
CA OHMVR 10. Does an Ariz. resident with a Ariz. RV plate on their ATV, Sandrail, or Golf cart need to buy a non-resident sticker from Calif. to be legal in Calif. to ride Off Road?
CA OHMVR 11. If you are riding a motorcycle off-road in Calif., do you need to wear a Helmet?
AZ G&F 12. Where is it legal to use my unlicensed ATV, Golf Cart, or Sand rail in Ariz.?
CA OHMVR 13. In Calif., is it legal to drive an OHV off road if your driver license has been revoked?
CA OHMVR & AZ G&F 14. Are most Calif. off road regulations the same as in Ariz. or Nevada.?
CA OHMVR 15. When the Calif. Green Sticker program pays for improvements in an area, do they continue to fund the maintenance on that improvement?
CA OHMVR 16. With the visitation that the ISDRA gets, why doesn't that area get more Green Sticker money?
ALL 17. Do the land managers and the law enforcement agencies have a responsibility to identify and correct inconsistent development and application of laws and rules in adjacent recreation areas? Within a single agency, across state lines and among similar local, state and federal agencies? If so, what is the process for doing so? How can the OHV community help? (i.e., burning pallets and dumping gray water-BLM Barstow and El Centro Field Office rules are not the same)
BLM & ICSO 18. Are fireworks illegal in a Government directed area such as the dunes? What is enforcement policy?
BLM & ICSO 19. Why isn't the Border Patrol more active in law enforcement in the dunes?
BLM & ICSO 20. When is a safety flag on a whip, eight feet above the ground required at the ISDRA? A whip, with a flag doesn't appear to be required on motor homes or trucks when they are in camping areas but ATV's are required to have them. Why does a truck need a whip, with a flag at the drags off Gecko road, if it isn't going to go out in the dunes, or is it required? The drags at Gecko is as flat as the camping areas. I guess the question is what is the rule of thumb on when a whip and flag is required?
BLM & ICSO 21. There's no parking or camping within 10 ft. of the pavement on Gecko Rd. Although I've never seen it enforced for camping. Does this apply for the road that goes into Buttercup also?
BLM & ICSO 22. In Ariz. many Sand rails don't have a title and are not street legal. They are bought and sold with a bill of sell. Is a non-resident sticker all they need to be legal at the ISDRA?
BLM & ICSO 23. On busy Holiday weekends at Glamis there are LEO’s from outside agencies. Many are not familiar with the dunes or the rules. What process is used to bring them up to speed? Do they receive any info to review before come down to Glamis?
AZ G&F 24. Is AZ considering a program similar to the CA Green Sticker Program? If so what is the current status? Are AZ agencies working with the CA OHMVR staff to coordinate their efforts?
BLM & ICSO 25. I have a whip that the top is 10 feet off the ground - our club flag is at the top and at the 8 foot level is an orange flag - am I legal?
ALL 26. Do AZ and CA driving and drinking laws apply off-highway? What’s the rule re open containers?
Can my dune buggy passenger drink while I drive? What about on OHV designated trails at the Cinders near Flagstaff, AZ. I have heard about the “BLM National Alcohol Initiative.” Is that a ban on alcohol use on federal land?
Residence Inn by Marriott
8242 North Black Canyon Highway
Phoenix, AZ
APRIL 2, 2005
9AM - 4PM
Sponsored by RATV/MX Warehouse
Glendale, AZ 623 915 3465
At 2 PM, GET THE FACTS ABOUT
OFF-ROAD REGISTRATION & LAWS
The ASA will host a Panel of the Law Enforcement Experts that directly influence how the ISDRA is operated.[/center]
Confirmed Panel Participants
· Daphne Greene, Deputy Director, OHMVR Division California State Parks
· Sgt Mark McNay, Imperial County Sheriffs' Office
· Ed Jahrke, Program Manager, Watercraft & OHV Law Enforcement Arizona Game & Fish Department
· Ray Leloup, Chief Ranger, Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area
[center]The American Sand Association (ASA) receives numerous questions and comments from Sand Sport enthusiast's regarding OHV registration, laws and rules. Many of our 20,000 members visit various recreation areas in Arizona, Nevada, and California. The rules are not the same in all jurisdictions. In the case of the Imperial Sand Dunes on the high use holidays, visiting law enforcement coalition personnel may not be fully aware of enforcement practices for "off" weekends.[/center]
Some of the questions we are asking are listed below - please submit those you have at the meeting or to GlamisOnLine@earthlink.net by March 31st.
[center]Advance Questions for Panel Consideration
Revised 3/24/2005[/center]
BLM & ICSO 1. Is a red tail light required at the ISDRA even if you are not riding at night?
BLM & ICSO 2. Is a brake light required to be legal at the ISDRA?
CA OHMVR & AZ G&F 3. Is there reciprocity between Ariz. and Calif. regarding street legal ATV's and Golf Carts?
BLM & ICSO 4. Is a light required on your whip if you are riding at night?
CA OHMVR & AZ G&F 5. Is it illegal to ride double in Calif. and Ariz. if the manufacture says the ATV is designed for two people?
CA OHMVR & AZ G&F 6. If it is legal to ride double on an ATV that is designed for two by the manufacture. Then if a regular ATV is modified with the same equipment, is it legal to ride double on it?
CA OHMVR 7. Are the sound limits in Calif. just for ATV's and motorcycles or all off road vehicles?
BLM & ICSO 8. Some people have received tickets at the ISDRA for no spark arrestor, why would this apply when there isn't a danger of starting a fire? What does the spark arrestor law say? Isn't there a common sense factor that should be applied? Is this a matter of the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law? Are spark arrestors required on an OHV's equipped with a turbo charger?
BLM & ICSO 9. Can you ride your Ariz. street legal Golf cart or ATV on maintained roads in Calif.?
CA OHMVR 10. Does an Ariz. resident with a Ariz. RV plate on their ATV, Sandrail, or Golf cart need to buy a non-resident sticker from Calif. to be legal in Calif. to ride Off Road?
CA OHMVR 11. If you are riding a motorcycle off-road in Calif., do you need to wear a Helmet?
AZ G&F 12. Where is it legal to use my unlicensed ATV, Golf Cart, or Sand rail in Ariz.?
CA OHMVR 13. In Calif., is it legal to drive an OHV off road if your driver license has been revoked?
CA OHMVR & AZ G&F 14. Are most Calif. off road regulations the same as in Ariz. or Nevada.?
CA OHMVR 15. When the Calif. Green Sticker program pays for improvements in an area, do they continue to fund the maintenance on that improvement?
CA OHMVR 16. With the visitation that the ISDRA gets, why doesn't that area get more Green Sticker money?
ALL 17. Do the land managers and the law enforcement agencies have a responsibility to identify and correct inconsistent development and application of laws and rules in adjacent recreation areas? Within a single agency, across state lines and among similar local, state and federal agencies? If so, what is the process for doing so? How can the OHV community help? (i.e., burning pallets and dumping gray water-BLM Barstow and El Centro Field Office rules are not the same)
BLM & ICSO 18. Are fireworks illegal in a Government directed area such as the dunes? What is enforcement policy?
BLM & ICSO 19. Why isn't the Border Patrol more active in law enforcement in the dunes?
BLM & ICSO 20. When is a safety flag on a whip, eight feet above the ground required at the ISDRA? A whip, with a flag doesn't appear to be required on motor homes or trucks when they are in camping areas but ATV's are required to have them. Why does a truck need a whip, with a flag at the drags off Gecko road, if it isn't going to go out in the dunes, or is it required? The drags at Gecko is as flat as the camping areas. I guess the question is what is the rule of thumb on when a whip and flag is required?
BLM & ICSO 21. There's no parking or camping within 10 ft. of the pavement on Gecko Rd. Although I've never seen it enforced for camping. Does this apply for the road that goes into Buttercup also?
BLM & ICSO 22. In Ariz. many Sand rails don't have a title and are not street legal. They are bought and sold with a bill of sell. Is a non-resident sticker all they need to be legal at the ISDRA?
BLM & ICSO 23. On busy Holiday weekends at Glamis there are LEO’s from outside agencies. Many are not familiar with the dunes or the rules. What process is used to bring them up to speed? Do they receive any info to review before come down to Glamis?
AZ G&F 24. Is AZ considering a program similar to the CA Green Sticker Program? If so what is the current status? Are AZ agencies working with the CA OHMVR staff to coordinate their efforts?
BLM & ICSO 25. I have a whip that the top is 10 feet off the ground - our club flag is at the top and at the 8 foot level is an orange flag - am I legal?
ALL 26. Do AZ and CA driving and drinking laws apply off-highway? What’s the rule re open containers?
Can my dune buggy passenger drink while I drive? What about on OHV designated trails at the Cinders near Flagstaff, AZ. I have heard about the “BLM National Alcohol Initiative.” Is that a ban on alcohol use on federal land?
QUOTE(Doc @ Mar 24 2005, 12:49 PM)
Confirmed Panel Participants
...
Ray Leloup, Chief Ranger, Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area
...
Ray Leloup, Chief Ranger, Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area
Basher's gonna be there? Any money on how long until someone questions his personal exploits while wielding a badge?
Or are the questions to be answered only the predetermined ones set forth in the rest of the post above?Like I said, I intend to continue attending meetings as the opportunities present themselves, and I understand with such a large region to represent and only 4 meetings a year it's not going to be often there's one going off near my town. I keep my eye out for local gatherings, but I don't have the location/wherewithal to start one myself at the moment...
QUOTE
CA OHMVR 16. With the visitation that the ISDRA gets, why doesn't that area get more Green Sticker money?
I sure wish I could attend this meeting. I really want to hear the answer to that question...
Maybe Paul Spitler should be the one to give the reason why and not Daphne Greene... 
I saw a sign on Wash Road leaving Sunday about the meeting in PHX next Saturday, hope those that live in AZ can attend.
We're rounding up the kids now and will be heading to this meeting in a little bit. Anyone else going?
QUOTE(PowerStrokeDave @ Mar 21 2005, 04:04 PM)
QUOTE(LoBuck @ Mar 21 2005, 01:35 PM)
PWR MAD, were you at the last (8/21/04) ASA BOD meeting in San Diego? I thought that was a very interactive meeting. Lots of good info. I've only been to 2 of them in San Diego though.
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That's the only meeting that I've heard about within driving distance of me in the last year or so that I've been actively trying to inform myself. Aside from Chummin's kids I was probably the youngest one there by a decade. There were some interesting points, but there was a lot of issues I felt could have been handled in a span of minutes that seemed to drag on forever. Some people, I guess, like the sound of their own voices. I had a motor to finish building, so I dropped a few bucks and left at the (late) lunch break. It won't deter me though, I'll probably try again next time ASA passes through town. Really rare though, with the size of the affected region and the scarcity of meetings anyway, given that everyone's a volunteer...
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Please excuse the late response, I've been away from my computer for awhile.
If this was the meeting held in Mission Valley, then yes, I was there. I wish I'd have known PSD then, we could've had a few different views on the outcome. I've also drove to Ontario for one of the meetings to see if the atmosphere was any better.
At both meetings, it seemed as though the scheduled topics were beaten to death, which left almost no time for the attendees who stood up to ask other questions.
Again, I understand that all the participants are either volunteers, or govt. employees who'd probably rather not be there. This was just an observation made by myself and as I said, it was echoed throughout the crowd as we were leaving. Perhaps I was misconstrued in my evaluation.
I will do my best to attend the next meeting in the area. Thanks for listening.
No Lyle, the one I was at was at some high dollar hotel downtown last August.
I've been to several ASA BOD meetings and, at any time, anyone with a question only needs to raise a hand and speak up to be heard and answered. 
so how was the meeting?
QUOTE(Sandwizard @ Apr 7 2005, 09:32 PM)
so how was the meeting?
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I haven't seen anything posted yet either? But I did get this from the Chairman:
QUOTE
The meeting was well attended.
The panel discussion re rules and laws was very productive. The panel addressed the questions which were provided in advance.
Their responses were recorded and will be summarized in the next newsletter and on the website. A similar panel discussion will be
schedule for the Oct 22, 2005 in San Diego.
The panel discussion re rules and laws was very productive. The panel addressed the questions which were provided in advance.
Their responses were recorded and will be summarized in the next newsletter and on the website. A similar panel discussion will be
schedule for the Oct 22, 2005 in San Diego.
With the ASA website going down last weekend there are MANY things that the volunteers (with limited time) need to do first I believe.
HEY KING & QUEEN,,, did you make it??? How was it???
I can't seem to find any information about the meeting or how it went. Not even attendee reports.
Was it held?
Was it held?
Yes it was held.
The notes from the panel discussion between the BLM, ICSO, AZ G&F and Cal. State parks representatives are being complied and will be posted soon.
A link to the questions and answers will be posted here.
The notes from the panel discussion between the BLM, ICSO, AZ G&F and Cal. State parks representatives are being complied and will be posted soon.
A link to the questions and answers will be posted here.
The results of the panel discussion from the April 2nd ASA open Board of Directors meeting can be viewed here.
http://www.americansandassociation.org/php...pic.php?t=17870
http://www.americansandassociation.org/php...pic.php?t=17870
Did people really not know the answers to those questions?
I will admit, someof the important ones, I didnt know, like stuff about golf cart reg.
But did we really need to even ask about lights and riding double on an ATV?
Guess so, Im glad you got the answers.
I will admit, someof the important ones, I didnt know, like stuff about golf cart reg.
But did we really need to even ask about lights and riding double on an ATV?
Guess so, Im glad you got the answers.
QUOTE
ASA Hosted Panel Discussion
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 1:59 pm Post subject: ASA Hosted Panel Discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5/5/2005
ASA HOSTS
PANEL DISCUSSION
ABOUT
OFF-ROAD REGISTRATION AND LAWS
The ASA Board of Directors conducts four open meetings each year. Three of the meetings are held in California and one in Arizona. At the recent April 2, 2005 meeting in Phoenix, a panel of law enforcement experts addressed questions relating to off-road vehicle registration, laws and rules. While many of the ASA’s 20,000 members visit recreations areas in Arizona, Nevada and California, the rules are not the same in all jurisdictions.
The panel discussion is part of ASA’s “Public Education Outreach Partnership Program” with agencies responsible for management of our public lands. A similar panel discussion is tentatively scheduled for the October 22, 2005 Board Meeting in San Diego.
The participants on the Phoenix panel were:
Mark Mc Nay, Imperial County Sheriffs’ Office
Daphne Greene, Deputy Director, California State Parks OHMVR Division
Edward Jahrke, Program Manager, Watercraft & OHV Law Enforcement Arizona Game & Fish Department
Ruben Conde Jr, Bureau of Land Management Law Enforcement Ranger
Questions and Answers
1. Q: Is a red light required at the ISDRA even if you are not riding at night?
A: Mark Mc Nay - Per Calif. Vehicle Code 38345, a red light is not required during daylight hours, but it is required from one half hour after sunset until one half hour before sunrise.
2. Q: Is a brake light required to be legal at the ISDRA?
A: Mark Mc Nay - Brake lights on ATVs, motorcycles or off-road vehicles are not required. Only street legal vehicles are required to have operating brake lights, which must be in working order.
3. Q: Is there reciprocity between Arizona and California regarding street legal ATVs and golf carts?
A: Ed Jahrke and Daphne Greene - ATVs and golf carts can be street legal only in Arizona, not in California.
ATVs and golf carts are not considered street legal vehicles in CA. In AZ they can be street legal. If you are a resident of AZ and have a non-street legal vehicle in CA that is registered in AZ, you do not need to obtain a non-resident permit when visiting CA. Until further notice, RV plates on AZ vehicles should be accepted as registration if the owner has AZ ID.
4. Q: Is a light required on your whip if you are riding at night?
A: Mark Mc Nay - No. A light is not required on your whip flag.
5. Q: Is it illegal to ride double on an ATV in CA and AZ if the manufacturer says the ATV is designed for two people?
A: Ed Jahrke - No. If the ATV is manufactured for two people, it is legal to ride double.
A: Mark Mc Nay and Ruben Conde - In California, as long as the ATV is manufactured for two passengers it is legal to ride double.
6. Q: If it is legal to ride double on an ATV that is designed for two by the manufacturer, then if a regular ATV is modified with the same equipment, is it legal to ride double on it?
A: Mark Mc Nay – No. Per California Vehicle Code 38506, any type of modified vehicle not manufactured for two passengers is not legal for the operation with a passenger.
7. Q: Are the sound limits in CA just for ATVs and motorcycles or for all off-road vehicles?
A: Daphne Greene - All off-highway vehicles, not just ATVs and motorcycles are required to meet the 96dBA law.
CA vehicle code 38365 reads: (a) Every off-highway motor vehicle, as defined in Section 38006, shall at all times be equipped with an adequate muffler in constant operation and properly maintained so as to meet the requirements of Section 38370, and no muffler or exhaust system shall be equipped with a cutout, bypass, or similar device. (
The provisions of subdivision (a) shall not be applicable to vehicles being operated off the highways in an organized racing or competitive event upon a closed course or in a hill climb or drag race, which is conducted under the auspices of a recognized sanctioning body or by permit issued by the local governmental authority having jurisdiction. "Less Sound Equals More Ground" is a slogan that speaks to the importance of quiet vehicles. Sound is one of the most important issues facing Californians today. In order to sustain long-term OHV opportunities, we must all adhere to the OHV Noise Standard.
8. Q: Some people have received tickets at the ISDRA for no spark arrestor. Why would this apply when there isn’t a danger of starting a fire? What does the spark arrestor law say?
A: Mark Mc Nay - All off-highway vehicles are required to be equipped with a spark arrestor.
A. Rubin Conde - There is a Federal Law that requires a spark arrestor when operating on federal land.
9. Q: Can you ride your AZ street legal golf cart or ATV on maintained roads in CA?
A: Mark Mc Nay - No. In California, ATVs and golf carts are not considered street legal.
10. Q: Do Arizona residents with a Arizona RV plate on their ATV, sand rail or golf cart need to buy a non-resident sticker from CA to be legal in CA to ride off-road?
A: Daphne Greene and Mark Mc Nay - If you are a resident of AZ and have a non-street legal vehicle in CA that is registered in AZ, you do not need to obtain a non-resident permit when visiting CA. Until further notice, RV plates on AZ vehicles are accepted as registration if the owner has AZ ID.
11. Q: If you are riding a motorcycle off-road in CA do you need to wear a helmet?
A: Mark Mc Nay – The law does not require you to wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle off-road. Helmets are required when riding an ATV.
12. Q: Where is it legal to use my unlicensed ATV, golf cart or sand rail in AZ?
A: Ed Jahrke - On unpaved or gravel roads in unincorporated areas you are OK; however, this may not apply to federal lands. It is advisable to check with the authorities in the area where you are going to ride before riding. The following is the actual verbiage from Arizona Revised Statutes Title 28-2153. Registration requirement; exceptions; assessment; violation; classification
D. This section does not apply to:
9. An all-terrain vehicle or an off-road recreational motor vehicle operating on a dirt road that is located in an unincorporated area of this state. For the purposes of this paragraph, "dirt road" means an unpaved or ungraveled road that is not maintained by this state or a city, town or county of this state.
These are the places where an individual can legally use an unlicensed (non-street legal) ATV, golf cart or sand rail. Roads on federal lands also allow use of unlicensed ATVs, golf carts and sand rails unless these roads are maintained by this state or a city, town or county of this state.
13. Q: In CA is it legal to drive an OHV off-road if your license has been revoked?
A: Mark McNay - No. You may not operate any motorized vehicle if your license is suspended or has been revoked. Driving in California is a privilege not a right.
CVC 14601 et seq. were modified effective January 1, 2005 to clarify that suspension or revocation of your driving privilege applies in OHV areas.
14. Q: Are most CA off-road regulations the same in AZ or NV?
A: Ed Jahrke - No.
15. Q: When the CA Green Sticker program pays for improvements in an area, do they continue to fund the maintenance on the improvement?
A: Daphne Greene – Yes and No. In the past many areas funded for new development were later funded for some of the on-going maintenance. However, our regulations now require managers of an area receiving grant or cooperative agreement funding be able to demonstrate the ability to maintain new developments without OHV Trust Funds.
Please keep in mind green sticker registration funds are only a small fraction of the entire OHV Trust Fund for California. The OHV Trust Fund is comprised of monies collected from the fuel tax on individuals driving off-highway, the green sticker registration fee, and fees collected at State Vehicular Recreation Areas (SVRAs).
The OHMVR Commission allocates funding on a yearly basis for the grants and cooperative agreements program. In 2004/2005, requests for funding exceeded $37M; there was $17M available to allocate. The Commission is a seven-member body comprised of political appointees. (The Governor appoints three and the legislature appoints four.) The decision to fund on-going maintenance of an area is up to the Commission. It is incumbent upon the county or agencies applying for grant funding to properly plan for their OHV programs and not rely or expect funds from an unpredictable funding source.
16. Q: With the visitation ISDRA receives, why doesn’t the area receive more funding?
A: Daphne Greene - The OHMVR Commission is responsible for the allocation of funds for the local assistance and cooperative agreements program. Last year there was $37 million in requests and the Commission allocated all of the funds available ($17M). The Commission and Division have the responsibility to provide OHV opportunities throughout the State. The ultimate decision to fund an area or project is up to the seven-member Commission.
As part of the $25 paid for green sticker registration, a percentage goes to CHP, DMV, the OHMVR Division, and back to the counties as “in-lieu” funds. There are changes taking place in the off-highway program that may actually increase the “in-lieu” funding which Imperial County currently receives.
17. Q: Are fireworks illegal in government directed areas such as the dunes? What is the Enforcement Policy?
A: Mark Mc Nay - Federal fire codes and county ordinance laws require a permit in order to light fireworks. Enforcement comes under county codes, which is a misdemeanor with a fine of up to $500.00.
County ordinance 8.24.010:
No person, firm or corporation shall offer for sale, sell, use or display, within the unincorporated territory of the County of Imperial, fireworks of any kind other than those included within the definition of “safe and sane fireworks,” as set forth in Part 2 of Division 11 of the Health and Safety Code of the State of California…
Violators may be assessed a five hundred dollar fine and have any fireworks remaining in Imperial County confiscated.
18. Q: Why isn’t the border patrol more active in law enforcement in the dunes?
A: Ruben Conde - Their primary focus is border patrol and they are not peace officers.
19. Q: When is a safety flag, on a whip, eight feet above the ground required at the ISDRA? A whip with a flag doesn’t appear to be required on motor homes or trucks when they are in camping areas but ATVs are required to have them. Why does a truck need a whip with a flag at the drags - off of Gecko road - if it isn’t going to go out in the dunes ? The drags at Gecko are as flat as the camping areas. What is the rule of thumb on when a whip and flag are required?
A: Mark Mc Nay - When the motorized vehicle leaves the payment, a flag is required. Federal supplemental rules require a flag measuring eight feet starting from the ground to the tip. Common sense says a motorhome doesn’t require a whip if in a camp area.
20. Q: There is no parking or camping within 10ft of the pavement on Gecko Road, although I’ve never seen it enforced for camping. Does this apply for the road that goes into Buttercup also?
A: Ruben Conde - That rule is specific to Gecko road only; however, we urge everyone to drive safely along all roads. When camping along any road be sure to leave enough room for patrol and rescue vehicles to pass through.
21. Q: In AZ many sand rails don’t have a title and are not street legal. They are bought and sold with a bill of sale. Is a non-resident sticker all they need to be legal at the ISDRA?
A: Mark Mc Nay - Yes. All they need is a non-resident permit. For locations to purchase them, go to http://www.ohv.parks.ca.gov/default.asp?page_id=21846 .
22. Q: On busy holiday weekends at Glamis, there are LEOs from outside agencies and many are not familiar with the dunes or the rules. What process is used to bring them up to speed? Do they receive any information to review before they come to Glamis?
A: Ruben Conde and Mark Mc Nay - Officers are intensively briefed before heading out into the field. On holiday weekends, many officers return to ISDRA from outside areas and are already familiar with the most used regulations and laws. They are also given briefings each day before each shift, regarding current incidents and other items that are specific to the area they are going to work.
23. Q: Is Arizona considering a program similar to the California State Parks OHV Program? If so, what is the current status?
A: Ed Jahrke - The answer to #1 is yes. One of the biggest goals is to keep the program simple. The agency that will handle the program has yet to be chosen. There is a real need out there for revenue and management in order to keep the public lands access open to the public. #2 is: Current status is that during the 2006 general session, there will be some sort of plan in effect, hopefully. The plan is to work with CA to utilize its program as a framework and to maintain an open dialog with the other states including Utah and New Mexico. OHV management is on the forefront of a lot of agencies minds. There has to be an inter-state system in effect for it to be successful.
24. Q: The top of my whip is 10 feet off of the ground. Our club flag is at the top and of the whip and at the 8 foot level is an orange flag. Am I legal?
A: Mark Mc Nay - It is required to have the orange flag at the top of the whip, and then the other club or decorative flag below the colored flag for visibility.
25. Q: Do AZ and CA driving and drinking laws apply off-highway?
What is the rule on open containers? Can a passenger in my dune buggy drink while I drive? What about on OHV designated trails at the cinders near Flagstaff AZ? I have heard about the BLM National Alcohol Initiative. Is that a ban on alcohol on federal land?
A: Mark Mc Nay - California vehicle codes #23222, #23223, #23225, #23226 all apply to drinking and driving laws which also apply to off-highway vehicle use.
The BLM alcohol initiative is a campaign highlighting education of the public and increased attention by enforcement.
26. Q: Ron Scott asked about the law regarding red and blue lights on any off road vehicle.
A: Mark Mc Nay – The California Vehicle Code 38346 prohibits red or blue warning lights. This law allows for law enforcement and emergency personnel to be easily recognized in an emergency. This enables them to protect the public as well as the public lands on which the public recreates.
27. Q: If you have a Dual Sport bike and you have street legal and green stickered, can you have equipment on it disabled that is required for it to be street legal, when using it off road in California?
A: Daphne Greene - Yes, as long as the motorcycle is equipped as required for off-highway use. However, when traveling back on-pavement be sure to have all the proper equipment needed for street legal travel.
_________________
L&L
It is not ours to decide the times in which we live.
It is only ours to decide what to do with the time given us.
Make the most of your time.
QUOTE
7. Q: Are the sound limits in CA just for ATVs and motorcycles or for all off-road vehicles?
A: Daphne Greene - All off-highway vehicles, not just ATVs and motorcycles are required to meet the 96dBA law.
A: Daphne Greene - All off-highway vehicles, not just ATVs and motorcycles are required to meet the 96dBA law.
Hear that Dune Buggies?
QUOTE
8. Q: Some people have received tickets at the ISDRA for no spark arrestor. Why would this apply when there isn’t a danger of starting a fire? What does the spark arrestor law say?
A: Mark Mc Nay - All off-highway vehicles are required to be equipped with a spark arrestor.
A. Rubin Conde - There is a Federal Law that requires a spark arrestor when operating on federal land.
A: Mark Mc Nay - All off-highway vehicles are required to be equipped with a spark arrestor.
A. Rubin Conde - There is a Federal Law that requires a spark arrestor when operating on federal land.
This means that all stingers on VW's are illegal without a spark arrestor, all open pipe vehicles are illegal...
AND... no real reason, other then "There is a law"... Even if that law is absolutely inappropriate for the area.
QUOTE
19. Q: When is a safety flag, on a whip, eight feet above the ground required at the ISDRA? A whip with a flag doesn’t appear to be required on motor homes or trucks when they are in camping areas but ATVs are required to have them. Why does a truck need a whip with a flag at the drags - off of Gecko road - if it isn’t going to go out in the dunes ? The drags at Gecko are as flat as the camping areas. What is the rule of thumb on when a whip and flag are required?
A: Mark Mc Nay - When the motorized vehicle leaves the payment, a flag is required. Federal supplemental rules require a flag measuring eight feet starting from the ground to the tip. Common sense says a motorhome doesn’t require a whip if in a camp area.
A: Mark Mc Nay - When the motorized vehicle leaves the payment, a flag is required. Federal supplemental rules require a flag measuring eight feet starting from the ground to the tip. Common sense says a motorhome doesn’t require a whip if in a camp area.
Common sense also says that if you are in a flat area with no obstructions you also do not require a flag.
It is absolutely asinine to ticket some street car for driving into the sand to go up to the drags because he doesn't have a flag.
QUOTE
26. Q: Ron Scott asked about the law regarding red and blue lights on any off road vehicle.
A: Mark Mc Nay – The California Vehicle Code 38346 prohibits red or blue warning lights. This law allows for law enforcement and emergency personnel to be easily recognized in an emergency. This enables them to protect the public as well as the public lands on which the public recreates.
A: Mark Mc Nay – The California Vehicle Code 38346 prohibits red or blue warning lights. This law allows for law enforcement and emergency personnel to be easily recognized in an emergency. This enables them to protect the public as well as the public lands on which the public recreates.
This answers nothing. It does not define what a "warning" light is nor does it educate the off-roader as to what he CAN do.
I really don't see anything new here. I could have answered almost all of those questions myself.
QUOTE(The Pastor @ May 5 2005, 05:54 PM)
I really don't see anything new here. I could have answered almost all of those questions myself.
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I'd have to agree Brian. Doesn't look like much of a discussion?
Or perhaps no one pursued it at the time?
Vicki
When the sound thing 1st started it only applied to ATV's. Now it looks like it's everything?
Love how that is selectively enforced.
Love how that is selectively enforced.
QUOTE(Mike330R @ May 5 2005, 08:44 PM)
When the sound thing 1st started it only applied to ATV's. Now it looks like it's everything?
Love how that is selectively enforced.
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Love how that is selectively enforced.
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No, when they lowerd the limit to 96dba it included everything, they just "said" that they wouldn't be enforcing it on buggies. The reason? Because they have no way to test a dune buggy. But that won't stop them from ticketing you for no spark arrestor.
It should be noted that unless you take a trip up to the pavement and get away from most ambient noise and out of any valley, any sound test would be invalid.
But then, we'll probably end up with tickets that read something like...
"Well, it sounded loud so I ticketed him. He needs to be tested to get this written off"
I tried to tell everyone about this when it came out.
Brian,
Thank you for posting this. I was planning on starting a separate thread for it, which I think would be appropriate, but will defer to either you or Vicki.
As for the questions…those were the ones that were submitted. Questions 1 and 2 I THOUGHT I knew the answer on, but was surprised. Were some of em’ kinda obvious? <shrug> Not gonna say.
The response we got from those attending was positive and the ASA is tentatively planning on having another panel discussion again this coming July. I would encourage everyone to get their pet peeve/question ready and submit it when we ask. The purpose is to help inform everyone. I do plan on taking a copy of this with me and keeping it in my tool box, next time I am out there.
Thank you for posting this. I was planning on starting a separate thread for it, which I think would be appropriate, but will defer to either you or Vicki.
As for the questions…those were the ones that were submitted. Questions 1 and 2 I THOUGHT I knew the answer on, but was surprised. Were some of em’ kinda obvious? <shrug> Not gonna say.
The response we got from those attending was positive and the ASA is tentatively planning on having another panel discussion again this coming July. I would encourage everyone to get their pet peeve/question ready and submit it when we ask. The purpose is to help inform everyone. I do plan on taking a copy of this with me and keeping it in my tool box, next time I am out there.
QUOTE
8. Q: Some people have received tickets at the ISDRA for no spark arrestor. Why would this apply when there isn’t a danger of starting a fire? What does the spark arrestor law say?
A: Mark Mc Nay - All off-highway vehicles are required to be equipped with a spark arrestor.
A. Rubin Conde - There is a Federal Law that requires a spark arrestor when operating on federal land.
This means that all stingers on VW's are illegal without a spark arrestor, all open pipe vehicles are illegal...
AND... no real reason, other then "There is a law"... Even if that law is absolutely inappropriate for the area.
A: Mark Mc Nay - All off-highway vehicles are required to be equipped with a spark arrestor.
A. Rubin Conde - There is a Federal Law that requires a spark arrestor when operating on federal land.
This means that all stingers on VW's are illegal without a spark arrestor, all open pipe vehicles are illegal...
AND... no real reason, other then "There is a law"... Even if that law is absolutely inappropriate for the area.
You know, I used to agree with you Brain....it's a friggin' PILE OF SAND...what's to burn? However, in light of all the rain we have had this year...there is a LOT to burn. You camp at 13.5...the valleys between the washes and Olds are FULL of stuff that can/will burn. So there is a fire danger.
Now, as for SOUND....I understand where they are coming from, but think that common sense should prevail. There are no housing/subdivisions out there, and there ain't ever gonna be.
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