Their marksmanship is not the issue, their intent to kill is.

This is where I see black and white. NO grey. It's kill or be killed.
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I can't believe this incident hasn't been in the news more.
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prolly cause it never really happend!!!!!!!!!!!!

somebody please prove me wrong...

hint: words on a message board are not PROOF. (not in my book anyway)


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It was reported to the BP, Sheriffs, in the newspaper, etc.

Believe it.
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As I understand the law.. you can be charged with "terrorist threats" if you threaten kick some ones a$$.. so if some one is shooting at your home(mobile or not) and raming with vehicle. Does that not make it a terroist act, and that would make the aggressor the "terroist???? and if Im in fear for my life or the life of my wife or child I feel that my killer instinct my kick in
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and because someone reported sumphin...that means it happened??? comon bro...i think u know better than that. i have not seen one bit of real proof.

SOMEBODY SHOW ME SOME PICS!!!


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your right!  i did post that link to that story!

but with all the bs that has been posted since....

i call BS on the whole story...

sign me...

still paitently waiting for proof.


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One side note. I will be curious to see if the various sand organizations comment about the incident. I would want to read it in a magazine or somewhere if I was taking my family out there. Not everybody sits on a computer or joins a forum.
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ah, so i guess nothing ever really happens in the world unless theres a picture of it then?
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Varying accounts were in several newspapers.

What would you like to see written about it... what kind of comments from the sand organizations are you looking for?

Vicki
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Okay. I'd rather shoot myself than agree with sandratt but the fact remains, the police would have taken a picture of the trailer that was rammed. It would be pretty obvious if it had been rammed by a Navigator IMO. If it happened in Buttercup as has been posted then I would assume that there would have been a s*** load of people that saw the trailer. Sorry to agree with you on this one sandratt.
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I think you guys have too narrow of a definition of terrorist.

It doesn't have to be a suicide bomber or a mass murderer. You can be charged with terroristic threatening against one person.

I don't care what you call them. Dead is fine with me.
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Terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

I'm sorry there are no pictures to satisfy your curiosity, but that does not make the incident fictitious.
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  In fact, the worst Thanksgiving experience my family (my camp, actually) was subjected to was at the hands of an all-white camp which included prominent (white) members of the duning community.

Vicki
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but is there anything "official" coming out to rebuke what's being said?
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More to the point, I think is that there is nothing "official" supporting either side of the argument.

I too would hate to see Glamis become just another "turf war" but, in my opinion, that's not happening.

What I see happening is more interest in duning, from a wider variety of citizens. What happens from here is on the shoulders of all recreationists.

Vicki
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HMMMMMMMMMM.,,,, still nothing new on this incident !!!!!!!!!!  
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(Short version: after the usual run-around they got the explorer back and were even able to drive it onto the trailer to take it home.  Now they're talking about cutting the top off and using it as a patrol vehicle for the new border watch group they started.)
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How 'bout check the Yuma Sun or the ASA bbs for the 'long story?'
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"They" is mainly the father of the guy who was robbed.
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Im not real good with my computer and the pic were taken with
a disposabe type camera how do you post those on? The sheriffs
in imperial county have pics. I just picked up my trailer from
Webbs RV in lakeside today, it took 4 weeks for them to repair
the damage.  Sorry for all you non believers I just hope at somepoint
it does not happen to you. I will never be the same.
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I feel sorry for your trama... and I too hope nothing like this ever happens to me or my family.... What is your side of the story ?
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Yuma Patriots to go on Fox News Channel

FROM STAFF REPORTS
May 20, 2005

Founding members of the Yuma Patriots, a local border watch group, are scheduled to be guests on Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes" tonight.

The show, which airs at 6 p.m. Yuma time, will include Flash Sharrar and attorney John Minore speaking about the Patriots and immigration issues.

Minore said the Patriots were contacted Wednesday about being on the show. "They picked it up that we were out there patrolling, and it's a hot issue," Minore said.

Sharrar and Minore are scheduled to appear via a live satellite feed from a San Diego Fox affiliate TV station. Minore, who is providing legal guidance to the Patriots, said he does not know when during the hour they will be on.

Sharrar founded the Yuma Patriots following the reported armed robbery of his son, Matthew, on Easter Sunday in the Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area planned to be out patrolling again Thursday night.

Minore said the exposure on Fox should be good for the border group.

"It's a hot issue right now," Minore said. "This will bring national attention to it. The whole world will know it and see it."

Sharrar and Matthew appeared on "Scarborough Country" on MSNBC on April 18 with guest host Pat Buchanan.

Yuma Patriots, tribe in dispute over patrols
BY JEFFREY GAUTREAUX, STAFF WRITER
Jun 8, 2005

The Yuma Patriots say they were told to leave their patrol area Monday night by the Cocopah Police Department, sparking a dispute over lands and the presence of the border watch group.

The Patriots plan to be back there tonight — although the Cocopah tribe says they are not welcome.

Yuma Patriots founder Flash Sharrar said the Patriots were initially contacted by Cocopah police Monday night and told what they were doing was legal. However, once accompanying news media left the area, Sharrar said officers returned.

"Then when the cameras leave, they come back and say we have to leave," Sharrar said.

The Patriots said they were patrolling on the Levee Road along the river between County 14th Street and County 18th Street.

Attorney John Minore, legal adviser for the Patriots, said the tribal prosecutor and a captain from the police department also came out to the area.

"They said just respect us and leave," Minore said. "They said it's their land, but they've been wrong in the past. They've been intimidating people for a long time out there."

A written statement from the Cocopah Tribal Council Tuesday said that as a sovereign nation, the tribe has the right to protect the general welfare of its community. The statement also said that the tribe prefers the continuation of their relationship with the U.S. Border Patrol for border security.

"There are so many issues involved in this that it is not in the best interest of our community to allow this on our lands," the statement said of the patrolling by the Patriots.

Minore said the Patriots were asking the tribe what law they were violating, but they were not told of any. Sharrar said when the media returned to the area later that night, the tribal police left the area.

The Patriots plan to be back out in the same area patrolling tonight from 7 p.m. to 10 p.m.

Sharrar said he will not stop what he has been doing for any reason. "If it means me going to jail, guess what, I'm going. I don't care anymore," he said. "They violated my civil rights (Monday) night."

The statement from the tribe said the Patriots should not return. "We, as a sovereign nation, have asked that they not enter our lands, as law-abiding people, we expect that they will not return, that they will respect our laws and lands. We are obligated to protect the safety of our community, and the integrity of the laws of Cocopah," the statement said.

The Cocopah Police Department directed inquiries Tuesday to tribal administrator Kermit Palmer.

Sharrar said the area in question on the Levee Road is marked as federal land. He said this is where the Patriots patrol, and it is not tribal land.

"It's very, very confusing, but (Cocopah police) couldn't cite any laws we'd broken," he said.

U.S. Bureau of Reclamation spokesman Jack Simes said the levee that the Patriots are patrolling is a USBR protection levee with the reservation on both sides of it. He said the levee had a "reserved right" for USBR, which is like an easement.

Simes said USBR would yield to the enforcement by tribal police in that area. "Vehicles are not really expected on top of the levee and parking is not allowed because it can get in the way of the maintenance trucks," he said. "It's not a highway, it's not a roadway system."

Sharrar said he has spoken to the Bureau of Land Management, U.S. Border Patrol, the Yuma County Sheriff's Office and other agencies and he has never been given a firm answer as to which agency oversees which land. He said the agencies themselves do not know.

BLM directed inquiries Tuesday about the area to USBR.

The Cocopahs said Monday night that the groups needed to start a dialogue, Sharrar said. However, the Patriots have no plans to do that. Sharrar said he asked the tribe six weeks ago for clarification of where their lands were, but they did not respond.

"Why am I going to start a dialogue with people who wouldn't answer my question?" Sharrar said.

Minore said the Patriots are patrolling in that area because it sees the most smuggling of illegal aliens and drugs.

"They were saying they have their border controlled," Minore said. "We said if they don't want us out here, then they must not want us in their casino."

The written statement said the tribe has had a relationship for many years with the U.S. Border Patrol and hopes to continue it.

"We believe that the best interests of Cocopah and all who legally enter upon our lands require our continued participation with the U.S. Border Patrol. We acknowledge that the United States has vested the authority, provided the necessary training, personnel and equipment to carry out the proper functions of enforcing the federal laws with respect to managing illegal crossings," the statement said.

Patriots plan return to Cocopah site

BY JEFFREY GAUTREAUX
Jun 10, 2005

Attorney John Minore spoke with supporters of the Yuma Patriots Wednesday night when the border watch group was turned aside by Cocopah police. A U.S. Border Patrol vehicle can been seen passing in the background as Minore, adviser to the group, spoke. Photo by Terry Ketron
Saying his group needs to "push the envelope," Flash Sharrar, founder of the Yuma Patriots, said the border watch group is planning to head back to the Cocopah Indian Reservation Saturday morning.

Wednesday night the group was prevented by a blockade of Cocopah Police Department vehicles from driving onto the maintenance road on the Colorado River levee at County 14th.

Sharrar said he did not know what would happen Saturday. "I just want to go fishing," he said with a laugh.

The Patriots said the fishing and hunting licenses they purchased from the tribe gave them permission to be on the reservation.

"Those were purchased under a false pretense," said attorney William Michael Smith, general counsel for the Cocopah tribe. "It's not hunting season, and there's no water to fish in. The pretense was they were purchased for people from out of town, and they implied it was for the future."

Sharrar said he is working to bring in help from the Minuteman Project, a border watch group that tried to decrease illegal immigration on the border in eastern Arizona.

Attorney John Minore, legal adviser for the Patriots, said he expected that on Saturday the tribe would "violate our rights again."

"There's a whole lot of Patriots, and a whole lot of entrances to that levee, so we're going to spread their resources out," he said.

Minore said there would likely be a lawsuit filed because he said the tribe stole the Patriots' money by issuing licenses to them and not letting them on the levee.

The Patriots have argued that the levee is owned by the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation, and they have the right to be there. USBR spokesman Jack Simes said that the levee is not a public roadway, and that the agency would yield to enforcement by tribal police.

Smith said the tribe had the legal right and the justification to keep the Patriots off their land, which included the levee. He said the reason the Patriots were not allowed is the welfare of the tribal members.

"If somebody comes to your home late at night, don't you want to ask them to please leave?" Smith said. "The levee is not a public highway. That's their home."

Smith said the tribe preferred for the U.S. Border Patrol to handle border enforcement.

Cocopah Tribal Administrator Kermit Palmer said Thursday that the tribe might prepare a written statement for release. However, no statement had been released as of 5 p.m.

Smith said a statement from the tribe might not come until today or later. "They're very busy," Smith said.

The Patriots plan to reach the levee at about 4:30 a.m. Saturday. "We're going to be out on that levee bright and early," Minore said. "We're going to take it back."
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Jeffrey Gautreaux can be reached at jgautreaux@yumasun.com or 539-6858.